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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 05:38 pm |
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Pete Macinta wrote: God did not create homosexuals and bad (people). The Bible does indicate though if one decides to remain with their sin, there are priciples already set forth that they are made worse. Hence, the wicked, unless they turn, are prepared for the day of judgment.
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thinkfirst and xoxoxo
thinkfirst ...
I believe each and everyone of us is "bad" in many ways. Yes, you are right, It's the sin nature of mankind
and xoxoxo
I think it just happens, nobody conceived the idea I would say the propensity to sin is certainly there. Without Christ we all tumble into it (any sin). But we still decide.
With that...
Cambridge Native wrote...
Yes I chose to live my life as a gay man, but I didn't choose to be gay. I would say that you did, but your choice, and not just your choice -- anybody - alcoholic, etc, is "encouraged" by our sin nature.
First, Homosexuals & "Bad" people shouldn't be used in the same context. God DID create gay people; But people who are bad chose to be bad, and they know the difference between right and wrong and choose to do wrong things. Gay people are gay, simple as that, they didn't choose to be born that way, they are just living the lives they were given!! They're not bad because of that, the devil didn't "make them do it".
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 05:26 pm |
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| Please note: sexuality is NOT just about sex and urges, it's who we are, it helps define us. God most certainly did create us all. A PERSON CAN CONTROL SEXUAL URGES AND DESIRE, but a person can't change who they are, the soul that they were born with, what makes them tick. Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 05:35 pm by thinkfirst
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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Sorry, away from the computer for a bit.
xoxoxo wrote...
Well doesn't Exodus contradict Genesis because it just said to become one flesh (e.i. reproduce) not just for fun.
No. Please read the passages involved (see the list below). There is no contradiction. God never said the union of man and woman was solely for procreation.
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xoxoxo wrote...
God created gay people, so he must go against what he says, too. thnkfirst wrote...
God created the good and the bad You are both incorrect. God did not create homosexuals and bad (people). The Bible does indicate though if one decides to remain with their sin, there are priciples already set forth that they are made worse. Hence, the wicked, unless they turn, are prepared for the day of judgment.
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thinkfirst and xoxoxo
thinkfirst ...
I believe each and everyone of us is "bad" in many ways. Yes, you are right, It's the sin nature of mankind
and xoxoxo
I think it just happens, nobody conceived the idea I would say the propensity to sin is certainly there. Without Christ we all tumble into it (any sin). But we still decide.
With that...
Cambridge Native wrote...
Yes I chose to live my life as a gay man, but I didn't choose to be gay. I would say that you did, but your choice, and not just your choice -- anybody - alcoholic, etc, is "encouraged" by our sin nature.
You might feel you had no choice, but please consider that before we come to Christ we are all somewhat "triple teamed against" so we stay away from God's principles. This triple team is satan, the world (society's attitude), and our sin nature.
We are body, soul and spirit. Without Christ, when younger, when are hormones are kicking in and occassionally there are imbalances we feel that sexual urge and desire to experiment - which might not be focused for reasons just mentioned on the opposite sex. That, in no way, means a person is homosexual, or was made to be homosexual.
The sexual urge is often messed up by the forces of the world and satan - homosexuals, bisexuals, pedophiles, beastiality (sp?) etc.
Christ offers us the Way out not just from sexual sin, but every sin.
God bless,
Pete
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IsThatRight
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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Alot of my friends, and some family members are gay.
I love them unconditionally!!! I do not judge anyone!!
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pooh_b_21632
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 04:54 pm |
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I wonder if anyone that looks down on homosexuals has ever actually met a homosexual or had a conversation with one. I have had several gay men as friends and they were very fun to be around. I cant understand why people would judge someone they never met based on their sexual preference. Watch the movie Chuck and Larry other than being funny its pretty enlightening to see how Chuck and Larrys long time friends treat them when they think they are gay then how they think twice about it and stand by them.
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Cambridge Native
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 04:06 pm |
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xoxoxo wrote: I think it just happens, nobody conceived the idea, "hmm...i think i'm going to start liking men/woman today!" you know?
I don't have anything against gay people, it's their business what they do, and the gov't shouldn't be aloud to tell people who they can & can't marry.
For myself who is gay, you are right XO, I didn't decide one day to say, "Oh I think I will start being gay." I have been attracted to the same sex since elementary school. I tried to repress these feelings and throughout high school and college dated members of the opposite sex. Yes I chose to live my life as a gay man, but I didn't choose to be gay. Who would choose such a lifestyle that for the most part you are frowned upon by society, including family and friends.
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:53 pm |
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I think it just happens, nobody conceived the idea, "hmm...i think i'm going to start liking men/woman today!" you know?
I don't have anything against gay people, it's their business what they do, and the gov't shouldn't be aloud to tell people who they can & can't marry.
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:51 pm |
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| Oh, and I apologize if that sounded like I believe homosexuality is bad; I relate from my Catholic upbringing. I believe each and everyone of us is "bad" in many ways.
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CRIMECRUNCHER
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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| Seems to me that God made them Adam and Eve. People conceived of the idea of Adam and Steve.
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:45 pm |
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| God created the good and the bad, then gave us some guidelines. Love the sinner, hate the sin is one of them. Laws are made to keep order and protect human rights and property. While the Bible absolutely frowns upon homosexuality, it also frowns upon judging other people, hating people, hurting people, killing people, and on and on. Again, society has a lot of problems, but if we TRIED to be better human beings, maybe society's problems would improve.
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:31 pm |
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Well doesn't Exodus contradict Genesis because it just said to become one flesh (e.i. reproduce) not just for fun.
God created gay people, so he must go against what he says, too.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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xoxoxo wrote....
Pete, Genesis says you've got to procreate and become one flesh, No, it does not. See my response to Pooh. There's also a passage, I think in Exodus, that indicates it is for sexual pleasure. There are other passages along that line.
And how is allowing gay people to wed going to help destroy the USA? It violates what God says. Sin enters into any nation, corrupts it, and it falls. That pattern (with other sins) occurred to Babylon, Edom, Israel, Judah and the list goes on.
We are no better than Babylon, Edom, Israel, and Judah.
God bless,
Pete
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:05 pm |
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| LOL, it's EXACTLY what our Country STRIVES for, STANDS for, that destroys values, destroys families.... it's FREEDOM. Freedom, mixed with temptation, which sadly is all human's downfall, comes with a heavy price. So blame the Democrats, tree huggers, commies, anyone you want. We need to be better human beings.
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big mac attack
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:04 pm |
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The easiest way to fix this is to get the GOVT out of the marriage business. That will never happen of course because there are no real conservative politicians left to fight for LIMITED GOVT. Plus a majority of campaign contributions come from LAWYERs and there are alot of lawyers that make ALOT of money off divorce cases. If you didn’t need the Govt to tell you that you can be married then you would not need the Govt to tell you that you were no longer married.
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:56 pm |
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Pete, Genesis says you've got to procreate and become one flesh, so what if you get married and don't want kids? If you can break the 3rd rule, why can't you break the first rule?
And how is allowing gay people to wed going to help destroy the USA?
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:55 pm |
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Pooh wrote...
There are plenty of couple consiting of a man and woman that cannot have a child. Does this mean they should not be able to marry because they cannot continue the species?
No, of course not. The context of Genesis indicates it is an honor and solemn responsibility. God did command Adam and Eve to replenish the earth.
However, procreation, as inferred in John 1, is often decided by the will of man.
Also there were many women in the Bible history that were barren.
Also, God can, and has, healed barreness (sp?).
God bless,
Pete
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pooh_b_21632
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:49 pm |
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Pete,
There are plenty of couple consiting of a man and woman that cannot have a child. Does this mean they should not be able to marry because they cannot continue the species?
Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 02:50 pm by pooh_b_21632
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slamen home runs
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:44 pm |
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xoxoxo wrote: SHR, what if you were gay? and your significant other was a man?
not me bud
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slamen home runs
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:41 pm |
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| not
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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xoxoxo wrote...
Get the chance to be married. I really don't care if gay people can be married or not, but I don't think it's right that laws prevent them from even having a chance, you know? We're all human, why do some rules apply to certain people? Rules (and not just for marriage) apply to certain people because of the responsibility vested in the action they are undertaking.
I don't know if I should give an example apart from marriage because you know as well as I do a discussion will vear off on various tangents then. So, unless you do want another example, I'll stick with marriage.
Ok, I know very well that some judges might not be true Christians - or even believe in God for that matter - but the rules of God supercede the rules of man.
The Genesis passage given below, and its context, indicates, among other things, that marriage is a 1.) a union between male and female, 2.) they become one flesh, 3.) this union affords the honor - and a sacred responsibility of - procreation.
Socially, a concern is that the institution of marriage in society's mind has been chipped away at over many decades. I plan to write an article on this some time.
As noted below - if one would destroy a nation, destroying their social system would help.
Satan wants to not only destroy the USA, but all nations.
God bless,
Pete
Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 02:49 pm by Pete Macinta
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slamen home runs
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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| how did you get coverage?
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:39 pm |
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| SHR, what if you were gay? and your significant other was a man?
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pooh_b_21632
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:37 pm |
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slamen home runs wrote: then that mean's they have the right to put health ins on each other Right??? Well then if this be so I believe I also have the right to put my health ins' on my gilr friend i live with wouldent you say this is far too
You should already be able to put your girlfriend on your insurance. Many companies now have a space for signifigant other instead of spouse. I use to work for Blue Cross Blue Shield, and many people had the same complaint. They decided that there should be a space for signifigant other. Before my sister and her huband got married he was on her insurance for 2 years. You should ask your employer. If they say you can add her you may have to wait for open enrollment to add her.
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slamen home runs
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:36 pm |
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Ty pete ya know im 49 and was married for 20year's and then she well ya know ... any way more power to her and her's ....... im a man with a woman
a woman and a man ............ they just dont get it ...................
this world was made through man and woman yes or no /////
process that >>>>>
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Cambridge Native
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:32 pm |
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| As a gay man happily partnered for 10 years, I don't need a piece of paper signed by a justice of the peace or a member of the clergy to be married. If you love, respect, honor, and cherish someone through the good and the bad, then in my opinion you are already married. As for insurance, I think that yes heterosexuals who have live in partners should also be allowed to be on each other's insurance policies. My partner has been on my health insurance for 3 years now.
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:23 pm |
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Get the chance to be married.
I really don't care if gay people can be married or not, but I don't think it's right that laws prevent them from even having a chance, you know? We're all human, why do some rules apply to certain people?
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:17 pm |
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slamen home runs
You have made some pretty good observations.
God bless,
Pete
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slamen home runs
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:15 pm |
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So If they allow this then that mean's they have the right to put health ins on each other Right??? Well then if this be so I believe I also have the right to put my health ins' on my gilr friend i live with wouldent you say this is far too??
If i have lived with her for year's and we just dont get married /\
Oh ya, Im a man for the family first I was against house bill 99 in delaware
only for a reason of my own ... let's say that ok .. im not again'est there way of life JUST DONT BRING IT IN MY HOME . what you do is your 's to do. I cant see where our future is going ......................... if all these things are changing where's child barring happening ?? where our future childern going to be made??
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:13 pm |
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xoxoxo wrote...
But Pete, if the judge's decision DOESN'T stand, then how will gay people even get the chance? Not sure what you mean. Get the chance for what?
thanks,
God bless,
Pete
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xoxoxo
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:12 pm |
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| But Pete, if the judge's decision DOESN'T stand, then how will gay people even get the chance?
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:59 pm |
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Thinkfirst - No one is whining.
xoxoxo wrote....
And if it's wrong?...well we're not the judge of that.
Well, with that then you would agree the judge's decision in California should not stand - for they are people like you and me.
And again, - not judging - just telling what the Judge of all the earth says:
Genesis 2:24, Malachi 2:13-16, Matthew 19:5-6, 1 Corinthians 7:3, 1 Corinthians 7:39, Ephesians 5:31, Hebrews 13:4
God bless,
Pete
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thinkfirst
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:28 pm |
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| I grew up a Catholic, 2 of my aunts were nuns. One is still working full time at the age of 80 helping illegal immigrants through the Catholic Church. You all whine and moan about Communism and the Democrats, etc. but people in ALL walks of life do bad things. Priests, Religion, money have done more to undermine the family then ANYONE in history. PEOPLE have. I'm not an advocate for same sex marriage, but while you all whine about family values and Tibet, OUR Country SLAUGHTERED the Indians, we declared "All men are created equal" while we had SLAVES, women are still second class citizens in the eyes of many... SO, I suggest if EACH of us LIVED a decent, loving, honest life and treated others as WE wished to be treated MAYBE we could criticize Obama, and everyone else.
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xoxoxo
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:24 pm |
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I remember watching the Ellen Degeneres show a couple weeks ago and she had announced that California would be excepting same-sex marriages, and that she and her longtime girlfriend would be tying the knot.
Marriage in my opinion is when two people love,respect,cherish,commited to eachother enough to spend the rest of their lives with eachother, and it makes no difference to me if they're the same sex....everyone has the right to the pursuit of happiness. And if it's wrong?...well we're not the judge of that.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:16 am |
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CC wrote...
Pete I only went to parochial school for one year. The rest of the time it was CCD classes on Sunday. I recall a lot of anti-communist stuff from then but not a word about marriage in that context. Well, this is what I remember, and I know there was a lot of commy bashing back then, but here goes.
I think what got our nuns going was that the store across the street fromt the school started selling mags with sexual content.
I remember being told by some nuns this thanks to communist influence in the nation. The idea in part was to chip away at the family. If the family is weakened, the nation is weakened which will aid its overthrow.
The big bad commies are no a main threat now, but satan has gladly kept that ball rolling.
As Jesus said, before He comes back, iniquity shall abound. Divorces have dramatically increased in previous decades. And now, same sex "marriage" makes its debut.
In regard to marriage, I recently wrote an article on the vow...
Strengthen a Foundation of Marriage: The Vow
The time is short. Christ (Messiah) will return. Prepare to meet thy God...
http://www.geocities.com/agcorcam/sal.html
God bless,
Pete
Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 03:17 am by Pete Macinta
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CRIMECRUNCHER
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 03:03 am |
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| Pete I only went to parochial school for one year. The rest of the time it was CCD classes on Sunday. I recall a lot of anti-communist stuff from then but not a word about marriage in that context.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:56 am |
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Hey CC,
You are Roman Catholic, right? I used to be when I was a kid. I got question for you and the other Catholics to see if you were told the same thing I was in school.
Remember the nuns/ teachers saying anything about communism and their efforts to destroy marriage in this country and why they would want to do that?
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:53 am |
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CC wrote...
You know Pete, if same sex unions become the law of the land, I forsee the day when polygamists and polyandrists, among others will demand equal rights. The USA is on a very slippery slope if this happens. You are absolutely right CC.
If I am not mistaken, Great Britain has accepted polygamy.
God bless,
Pete
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CRIMECRUNCHER
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:50 am |
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| You know Pete, if same sex unions become the law of the land, I forsee the day when polygamists and polyandrists, among others will demand equal rights. The USA is on a very slippery slope if this happens.
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:48 am |
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Well, well, well, I could say a lot here. But let's put it this way - the Word of God says it all.
Here are some Scriptures ... (from Article V of our church constitution - item "B" is omitted so we stay on track)
Marriage And Family
A. Marriage is that relationship between a man and a woman where, on the basis of mutual vow, love is expressed between the two, such expression includes fulfillment of sexual desire and the solemn privilege of procreation. This union is declared by Scriptures as holy and honorable, dissolvable only by the physical death of one of the two, and not by the writ and and/or action of man. Genesis 2:24, Malachi 2:13-16, Matthew 19:5-6, 1 Corinthians 7:3, 1 Corinthians 7:39, Ephesians 5:31, Hebrews 13:4
C. Polygamy, though mentioned in Scripture, was never sanctioned by God, and Scriptures indicate it is not the will of God. Genesis 2:21-24, 1 Kings 11:3-4,Matthew 19:4-6
D. Regardless of any edict of man and any vows of individuals and, whereas marriage as defined by the Word of God is between one man and one woman, unions between those of the same sex, or involving bisexual activity, or with another creature, or any combination of the foregoing, and any future innovation of man, is not deemed marriage in the sight of God, but an abomination to the shame of the image of God in man. Exodus 22:19, Leviticus 20:15, Acts 5:29, Romans 1:21-28, Galatians 5:19
E. Sexual fulfillment is to be only between husband and wife. 1 Corinthians 5:1, 1 Corinthian 6:18, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, 2 Timothy 2:22
F. No member of this fellowship shall perform, officiate, condone, encourage, or solemnize any union or actions described in paragraphs "B" to "E" in this section on Marriage and Family, nor anything contrary to paragraph "A" of the same. 2 Corinthians 6:14, Ephesians 5:3-12, Revelation 18:4
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God bless,
Pete
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SueCarol
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:22 am |
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Marriage is an institution that has been around for thousands of years....and it has always been between a man and a woman.
I have no problem with a civil ceremony for gays...that would give them legal rights....but create their OWN specific ceremony and leave marriage to what it has always been.
As for the courts....I am SO tired of the courts creating laws instead of interpreting them.
The courts are infringing on the separation of powers and the results to our country and our constitution will have bearing for many generations to come.
We need to get a handle on the courts in this country.....NOW.
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CRIMECRUNCHER
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:02 am |
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| I don't care what two consenting adults or ten consenting adults and a chicken do in private. I am against giving my imprimatur via state sanction to such unions.
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big mac attack
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:50 am |
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| I'm more against the activist courts making laws and at same time removing rights granted to us by the Constitution.
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4thekids
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:18 am |
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 Calif.: Same-sex marriages OK beginning June 17
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press WriterWed May 28, 7:04 PM ET
Barring a stay of a historic California Supreme Court ruling, same-sex couples will be able to wed in the state beginning June 17, according to a state directive issued Wednesday.
The state said it chose June 17 because the state Supreme Court has until the day before to decide whether to grant a stay of its May 15 ruling legalizing gay marriage.
Gay-rights advocates and some clerks initially thought couples would be able to wed as early as Saturday, June 14. The court's decisions typically take effect 30 days after they are made.
The guidelines from Janet McKee, chief of California's office of vital records, to the state's 58 county clerks also contained copies of new marriage forms that include lines for "Party A" and "Party B" instead of bride and groom. The gender-neutral nomenclature was developed in consultation with county clerks, according to the letter.
"Effective June 17, 2008, only the enclosed new forms may be issued for the issuance of marriage licenses in California," the directive reads.
A group opposed to gay marriage has asked the court to stay its decision until after the November election, when voters are likely to face a ballot initiative that would once again define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Passage of the initiative would overrule the Supreme Court.
Under the Supreme Court's regular rules of procedure, justices have until the end of the day June 16 to rule on the stay request, according to the memo sent by e-mail to county clerks. Lawyers involved in the marriage case have said previously the court could grant itself an extra 60 days to consider the stay.
San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera submitted a brief Wednesday urging the court to refuse the stay request.
"To deny this fundamental constitutional right to same-sex couples based on speculation about what might happen in November would not merely be inappropriate, it would be inhumane," Herrera's filing said.
A poll released Wednesday found that for the first time, about half of California voters support same-sex marriage.
The Field Poll found that 51 percent of respondents backed legalizing same-sex marriage and 42 percent opposed it. A 2006 poll found that 44 percent supported same-sex marriage and 50 percent objected; in 1977, the first year Field posted the question to California voters, only 28 percent were in favor.
"I would say this is a historic turning point or milestone," poll director Mark DiCamillo said. "We have speculated in the past there would be some time in the future when a majority would support same-sex marriage. Well, the lines have crossed."
The survey of 1,052 registered voters was conducted over the phone from May 17 to May 26 and had a sampling error of plus or minus 3.2 percentage points.
The poll's findings conflict with a Los Angeles Times/KTLA poll of 705 voters released last week that found 54 percent backed the proposed gay marriage ban and 35 percent opposed it.
Andrew Pugno, legal adviser for the coalition of religious and social conservative groups sponsoring the measure, said the Times poll is more consistent with his group's internal polling.
"We could acknowledge there has been increasing acceptance of the idea of gay relationships over the last 10 or 20 years, but we think when it comes to marriage there is still a solid majority who want to see it reserved for a man and a woman, and that is all this initiative is about," Pugno said.
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