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CRIMECRUNCHER
Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 03:14 pm |
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| One thing tha can be done is to vote for candidates for those political offices ,that can change the situation ,with those who share your views. That is to say, elect legislators, governors and Presidents who not only support the traditional definition of marriage, but who will cast votes and or make appointments that support the idea. Of the two candidates for POTUS, only Senator McCain has promised to appoint strict constructionist judges to SCOTUS, judges in the mold of Roberts and Alito. People like these are far more likely to uphold the traditional view of marriage if and when it comes before the Court. In the same vein, we need to keep sending people to the state legislature who will vote for a constitutional ban on non-traditional marriage should the issue ever come before the legislature.
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 02:45 pm |
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Good morning Pooh
You wrote...
If you don't agree with same sex marriage my suggestion is to do something about it.
Pooh if you mean me, and I am not writing this in an angry manner, I have, I am, and will continue to do so locally and internationally. My ministry includes the promotion of Biblical marriage.
Getting invovled in something like that wasn't necessary because God knew about it anyway.
Pooh, God does know all things. However, Christians are to be co-workers with Him
It was more important to get the lost won to Jesus.
Yes, you are right. But please let me explain why a Christian would want to talk about this issue, or do something to oppose a trend. I'll number my points for easier reference at least for myself.
1. Sometimes a lost person does not realize they are lost until it is explained that we are all sinners. In evangelism, we occasionally come across someone that thinks they have never sinned. For example, before I was saved, I thought foul language was ok. Any sin cannot be dealt with until it is recognized as sin.
2. Jesus said true Christians are the salt of the earth. One of the many purposes of salt is its use as a preservative. Not only are we to avoid sin, and purge ourselves of sin (that includes me. I am not perfect), we are commanded, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph 5:11
So, along with winning the lost, the true body of Christ is to act like a preservative to stem the tide of sin. One of these days, we will be gone. Then this gets fulfilled:
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
You are right we have choices, and you showed wisdom in your post by indicating our choices have consequences.
As you see above, we are directed by Eph. 5:11 to speak up on the works of darkness. Do I not face consequences if I disobey?
Rather, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Ro 1:16
God bless,
Pete
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CAPT WINKY
Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 10:19 am |
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| Just thinking about the same sex marriages subject is enough to cause me to vomit.
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dinky
Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 15th, 2008 05:51 am |
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Pete Macinta wrote: What the judges did in Calif. defies God given common sense.
What the judges did was against the people wishes too.
If you don't agree with same sex marriage my suggestion is to do something about it. I remember once when a well meaning "religous minded" person told me that there are all sorts of protests "Christians" can get pulled into. Getting invovled in something like that wasn't necessary because God knew about it anyway. It was more important to get the lost won to Jesus. When I finally gained some maturity and some wisdom I found I didn't like that "religious minded" advice.
Everyone has the right to choose how they want to live and what kind of life style they want practice. It's a choice. Right or wrong it's still a choice. We have that right to choose how to live, what to say, what to think, what to eat, how to dress, who's in our circle of friends. It's a choice. Some of those choices have devasting consequences. As a people and as a nation I believe that if we allow same sex marriage in this country, what's left of the moral fabric in our society will totally unravel. Just take a good look at some other countries that have allowed this to take place.
Saying that let me say this...Choices we make have good or bad consequences.
And those choices may not only affect us in the here and now, there may be ripples of effects in the future.
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4Godncountry
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jul 11th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1108 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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| CC, I agree. Our society overall is in terrible shape. While I do not think that this blatent disregard for Christian principles should go on anywhere, I know that it does and will continue. I just do not think that it should be waved in our faces and brought to the fore-front of a Judeo-Christian Nation (used to be). Even the muslims call us the infidels! In stead of God Bless America, we are fast becoming God Less America!
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CRIMECRUNCHER
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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| I've said it before here, I don't care what any two or twenty two consenting adults or consenting adults and a chicken do behind closed doors, its their problem to live with. However, when deviant behavior moves into the public arena, thats a different story. I don't want to see the entire country become like San Fransisco, where gay pride parades are the norm and where 'males' dress up in nun costumes to desecrate religious services. I also don't want to give deviant behavior my imprimatur by "legalizing" it and giving it the same stature in society as traditional marriage. When government and by extension society legalizes gay marriage, we overturn a couple of centuries of legal precedent by taking laws against sodomy and crimes against nature off the books to give special rights to a group that deserves no more rights than anyone else. Who will be next? Once gay marriage is legal across the board will the poligamists, or polyandrists or people who practice bestiality demand similar rights? or will it be the pederasts of NAMBLA who want laws against child molestation overturned? Far fetched? not really, all it will take is some looney ACLU ambulance chaser to start demanding that the equal protection clause of the Constitution be interpreted as entitling another group to special rights.
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4thekids
Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 12:56 pm |
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Last edited on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 12:57 pm by 4thekids
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4Godncountry
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 02:12 pm |
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scrapple wrote: Why is it "shoved on you?" How does it affect you in any way whatsoever? And, furthermore, why do civil rights apply only if a majority wishes them to? You might not see it as a civil rights issue, but many do.
Please don't answer with religious reasons.
First it is not a CIVIL RIGHT! I am awfully tired of hearing that phrase! Secondly, how does it affect me? Ask my children, after I have to explain to them why two women are holding hands and hugging! In an un-perverted society, it could have been two sisters, but not today! you might say how do you know?, by what my children didn't see, thank God! While I understand that people are going to do these things (as they have for centuries, and since the Fall of Man), at least there used to be shame with it, and the knowledge that it was wrong! (they just chose to do it anyway). Most would not have been public with it, because it was against moral and biblical standards. Now it is shoved on me in the store, at the Mall, fair, and if Gays had their way even at church! It is not just a gay issue. Smoking was shoved on me! Thank God the legislature created laws to at least stop a lot of that so I can eat and shop without breathing the smoke.
If someone choses to live that lifestyle, that is their choice. It is still immoral and against all biblical standards, but they are free to do so, however they should at least know that most of society still has some morals! It used to be that respect was given, If folks knew that I did not smoke, they wouldn't smoke around me. If they were going to use language that was offensive, they would not use it in my presence, or at least if it slipped out, they would apologize. Those days are almost gone! It is no longer civil rights, it is SPECIAL RIGHTS!
PS..scrapple I tried to be as non-religious as I could, but it is like Government, there really is no separation of church and state, and you really can't separate this issue from the Bible either! I just left out the Scriptures, if you dig back through the forum you will find them!
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 01:37 pm |
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scrapple writes...
Why is it "shoved on you?" How does it affect you in any way whatsoever? And, furthermore, why do civil rights apply only if a majority wishes them to? You might not see it as a civil rights issue, but many do. Please don't answer with religious reasons.
Don't worry scrapple. My reply is mostly based upon the Bible - not religion.
And, furthermore, why do civil rights apply only if a majority wishes them to?
Why do you complain now? I did not see you complain earlier in the thread when the California judges ruled in favor of the sin. So it's ok to apply civil rights when the judges rule like you might, but it's not when the people might rule against your wishes?
The Word of God, when read as a whole scrapple, the whole thing, elevates above the standards of ancient times, human rights and establishes them. It is way ahead of our Contstitution along that line if anyone would read the whole thing and try to do so at least objectively and with the presuppositions of street knowledge.
How does it affect you in any way whatsoever?
Good and bad affects everyone. Sin is a contagin (sp?). Sin weighs anyone down.
Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
We don't want to see a reproach to our nation, and grant it scrapple, this is not the only sin, so we speak out on others, and we do so because the love and mercy of God constrains us to do so.
Why is it "shoved on you?"
Perhaps the one who really knows God senses what the Bible terms the spirit of the world, that does push sin and stupidity upon us. What do I mean? There have been many stupid rulings handed down by liberal judges across the nation that defy common sense. There's many things now that have a lot of fine legal mumbo-jumbo print to them because people are sue happy. What the judges did in Calif. defies God given common sense.
God bless,
Pete
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scrapple
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| Joined: | Tue Dec 4th, 2007 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:56 am |
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Why is it "shoved on you?" How does it affect you in any way whatsoever? And, furthermore, why do civil rights apply only if a majority wishes them to? You might not see it as a civil rights issue, but many do.
Please don't answer with religious reasons.
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4Godncountry
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Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 04:15 am |
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4thekids wrote: Poll: Voters may back candidate who supports marriage amendment
http://www.the-tidings.com/2008/071808/marriageside.htm
It is not the Majority of peoples wishes to have civil unions or Same sex marriages! Most state elections have proved this. This will also now be tested in California, as enough signatures have been collected to take it to referendum. When will people just give up, and realize that, Most moral citizens do not want this shoved on them!
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CAPT WINKY
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:39 pm |
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| It makes me sick, YUCK.
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4thekids
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 02:51 pm |
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Poll: Voters may back candidate who supports marriage amendment
http://www.the-tidings.com/2008/071808/marriageside.htm
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CAPT WINKY
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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pooh_b_21632 wrote: Biology does not make someone a good parent.
Thats not the point. CW.
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 07:19 pm |
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True Pooh.
Still, God made humans male and female.
God bless,
Pete
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pooh_b_21632
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 07:15 pm |
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Biology does not make someone a good parent.
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CAPT WINKY
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 06:53 pm |
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| If it was not for your Mother and Father you'd not be here reading this.
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law_girl428
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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Pete Macinta wrote: law, in my following response to you, I am not trying slam or hurt you
I am sure there are those that will disagree and feel that my choice is wrong...but I don't worship our God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit in an organized religious setting (i.e. the church). My problem is that I have been to several churches, observed many sects in their message, but go away feeling as if I have just been slapped in the face.
Ok - don't know where you've been but in some cases one might feel this way because of a couple of reasons. Think about it - satan goes to church too! So, when we go, readily points out things to us we may deem negative. The other thing is we may overlook an extended hand of fellowship.
I have sat in many churches and looked around the congregation to find myself surrounded by hypocrites.
Yes, many say this, but I wouldn't let that deter me. We find them at work, school, -everywhere, so you will find some in church.
Also we have to weigh how we define the term hypocrite. Example Frank says he is a Christian, but participates in sin without any indication of progressive change. On the other hand, let's say Harry is a Christian, but since no Christian is in and of himself perfect, let's say Harry commits a sin. Harry then senses the conviction of God, asks for His forgiveness, and moves on and grows in Christ. That's different.
I will come right out and say...I had my daughter out of wedlock...and I actually find now that the choice to not marry her father was a good choice. We had been together for a few years prior to her conception and was engaged to be married before she was ever born. The pregnancy made me rethink my life and what life with her biological father would mean. Not marrying this man was probably the best choice I ever made....and in sinning by having a child out of wedlock, was IMO, probably better in the eyes of the Lord then the alternative. You see, the irony is that while it was "sinful" to be unmarried and give birth...her biological father could only lead myself and my daughter down a path of evil and sin. Had I stayed in union with him, I may have never have found myself or the love I have with my now husband and his gift to my daughter of a true father.
Believe it or not, your situation, -in general (not in exactness) - is not unlike some recorded in the Bible.
Rats - if we want to say what's worse, far worse than that was King David who had sex with someone else's wife, (I'm making this really short) who got pregnant, then had her husband killed. Sure, God punished him, but David repented. God took that mess that David made and turned it into something good.
God fully, lovingly understands we are all terribly messed up. So He extends mercy. But since the cross of Christ is now a fact of time, we can accept that penalty for our sin - or reject it.
Now here's the kicker....I was looked down upon by members of the church congregation because I was young (19) and pregnant, yet unmarried. I am delighted to have conceived my daughter and she was a true gift of God. I conceived her in Love. Not pure, clean love....but love nonetheless. I don't feel it was anyone's right to pass judgment or make me feel like I had. Not only did the congregation look down upon me, but our minister looked at me as if I had committed murder or rape. I ran from that Church to another. The same response. I made the choice to not return to Church...but to worship the Lord in my heart instead. The fact that I may not have all the details or comprehend the Word of God in every aspect, I feel, does not mean that I am any less of a child to my Father. In fact, my choice to separate myself from the very people who were not abiding by His Word, I feel was the path the Lord intended me to take.
Well, like I said, I sure don't know what churches you tried. Believe me Law, they are all not like that.
Then, too, think of what I said about satan. Perhaps satan took the negative things and amplified them before your eyes? That happens to many people.
I knew in my heart that God would forgive my sins, in light of making the right choices. I do believe in "the lesser of two evils". LOL.
10-4.
So you see, Pete...some of what I have been saying here is less about the Word of God and more about my personal relationship with God and the application of Gods instructions in my own life. I don't think you can take the Word without applying it to the individual and the circumstances in that person's life. I don't feel organized religion is the way into the gates and eternal life, rather, how you live your life in God's name.
Ok, I see where you be coming from. 10-4 on organized religion.
Now's here where I tie all this in....Because God knows that man sins...I don't think I can say for sure that God will condemn a person for their homosexuality.
Yes you are right, He knows we sin. And, please understand all sinners are already condemned - but God offers mercy in Christ. Homosexuality, like other sins, are just "symptoms" of being a sinner.
I feel that, not all people have the power to overcome all...
Well, we have no power at all, none. But though we conquer one, there's other sins. The only thing that conquers is the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
I think someone's heart can be open to God and they can ask for forgiveness and God will give it, despite their weakness as man.
Exactly. Aye, hardy Aye!
God created us as creatures EXPECTED to make mistakes.
Correct. More so, "foreknew" - a Biblical word. That is why, as the Word states, Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. IMO, a most beautiful decree of God. He knew we'd mess up, so He planned the Cure.
In God's love we can live knowing that there is forgiveness of all "sin". As long as you give your life over to God, live to be the best person you can be...God will still accept you into his embrace, despite your inability to overcome sin.
Well, more so, if Christ is within, He overcomes sin in us. We just have to learn to let Him.
...
Sounds like your dad had an encounter with God.
...
PETE... I wanted you to know I am Amanda McWilliams...Bruce McWilliams' wife. The "uncle" I was referring to was Rev. Sam.
Ok. I need to ask, Sam who?
Law, good post. I encourage you to focus only on God, not people, not even yourself (like for inner strength). BTW, I say that to me too!
God bless,
Pete
Nope, didn't feel as if you were trying to slam or hurt me. I just thought I would offer a little perspective. As far as the Church thing goes...let me just say, small town Church, small congregation, most relatives, and well, I am not the only one that felt this way. To top it all off, we were transplants 25 years ago from the "other side" of the Bay, and back then, that was almost enough. I believe many of those people who used to cast stones have been dealt lessons now that would make them think twice (it's funny how God works) but nonetheless, I still feel a little like joining a new Church is somewhat like being in a club. LOL. I don't join groups, I'm all me (as my Dad would have said) and I feel like I am better practicing my faith just between "the man" and myself.
I think we have a better understanding of eachother. It's hard to relay somethings in type without seeing and being able to eyeball one another...and I think that perhaps is the problem at times with the blogs.
Anywho...have a great day.
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Pete Macinta
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 04:26 pm |
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law, in my following response to you, I am not trying slam or hurt you
I am sure there are those that will disagree and feel that my choice is wrong...but I don't worship our God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit in an organized religious setting (i.e. the church). My problem is that I have been to several churches, observed many sects in their message, but go away feeling as if I have just been slapped in the face.
Ok - don't know where you've been but in some cases one might feel this way because of a couple of reasons. Think about it - satan goes to church too! So, when we go, readily points out things to us we may deem negative. The other thing is we may overlook an extended hand of fellowship.
I have sat in many churches and looked around the congregation to find myself surrounded by hypocrites.
Yes, many say this, but I wouldn't let that deter me. We find them at work, school, -everywhere, so you will find some in church.
Also we have to weigh how we define the term hypocrite. Example Frank says he is a Christian, but participates in sin without any indication of progressive change. On the other hand, let's say Harry is a Christian, but since no Christian is in and of himself perfect, let's say Harry commits a sin. Harry then senses the conviction of God, asks for His forgiveness, and moves on and grows in Christ. That's different.
I will come right out and say...I had my daughter out of wedlock...and I actually find now that the choice to not marry her father was a good choice. We had been together for a few years prior to her conception and was engaged to be married before she was ever born. The pregnancy made me rethink my life and what life with her biological father would mean. Not marrying this man was probably the best choice I ever made....and in sinning by having a child out of wedlock, was IMO, probably better in the eyes of the Lord then the alternative. You see, the irony is that while it was "sinful" to be unmarried and give birth...her biological father could only lead myself and my daughter down a path of evil and sin. Had I stayed in union with him, I may have never have found myself or the love I have with my now husband and his gift to my daughter of a true father.
Believe it or not, your situation, -in general (not in exactness) - is not unlike some recorded in the Bible.
Rats - if we want to say what's worse, far worse than that was King David who had sex with someone else's wife, (I'm making this really short) who got pregnant, then had her husband killed. Sure, God punished him, but David repented. God took that mess that David made and turned it into something good.
God fully, lovingly understands we are all terribly messed up. So He extends mercy. But since the cross of Christ is now a fact of time, we can accept that penalty for our sin - or reject it.
Now here's the kicker....I was looked down upon by members of the church congregation because I was young (19) and pregnant, yet unmarried. I am delighted to have conceived my daughter and she was a true gift of God. I conceived her in Love. Not pure, clean love....but love nonetheless. I don't feel it was anyone's right to pass judgment or make me feel like I had. Not only did the congregation look down upon me, but our minister looked at me as if I had committed murder or rape. I ran from that Church to another. The same response. I made the choice to not return to Church...but to worship the Lord in my heart instead. The fact that I may not have all the details or comprehend the Word of God in every aspect, I feel, does not mean that I am any less of a child to my Father. In fact, my choice to separate myself from the very people who were not abiding by His Word, I feel was the path the Lord intended me to take.
Well, like I said, I sure don't know what churches you tried. Believe me Law, they are all not like that.
Then, too, think of what I said about satan. Perhaps satan took the negative things and amplified them before your eyes? That happens to many people.
I knew in my heart that God would forgive my sins, in light of making the right choices. I do believe in "the lesser of two evils". LOL.
10-4.
So you see, Pete...some of what I have been saying here is less about the Word of God and more about my personal relationship with God and the application of Gods instructions in my own life. I don't think you can take the Word without applying it to the individual and the circumstances in that person's life. I don't feel organized religion is the way into the gates and eternal life, rather, how you live your life in God's name.
Ok, I see where you be coming from. 10-4 on organized religion.
Now's here where I tie all this in....Because God knows that man sins...I don't think I can say for sure that God will condemn a person for their homosexuality.
Yes you are right, He knows we sin. And, please understand all sinners are already condemned - but God offers mercy in Christ. Homosexuality, like other sins, are just "symptoms" of being a sinner.
I feel that, not all people have the power to overcome all...
Well, we have no power at all, none. But though we conquer one, there's other sins. The only thing that conquers is the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
I think someone's heart can be open to God and they can ask for forgiveness and God will give it, despite their weakness as man.
Exactly. Aye, hardy Aye!
God created us as creatures EXPECTED to make mistakes.
Correct. More so, "foreknew" - a Biblical word. That is why, as the Word states, Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. IMO, a most beautiful decree of God. He knew we'd mess up, so He planned the Cure.
In God's love we can live knowing that there is forgiveness of all "sin". As long as you give your life over to God, live to be the best person you can be...God will still accept you into his embrace, despite your inability to overcome sin.
Well, more so, if Christ is within, He overcomes sin in us. We just have to learn to let Him.
...
Sounds like your dad had an encounter with God.
...
PETE... I wanted you to know I am Amanda McWilliams...Bruce McWilliams' wife. The "uncle" I was referring to was Rev. Sam.
Ok. I need to ask, Sam who?
Law, good post. I encourage you to focus only on God, not people, not even yourself (like for inner strength). BTW, I say that to me too!
God bless,
Pete
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CAPT WINKY
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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| I have not read everything here but same sex marriage is just plain wrong.
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law_girl428
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:53 pm |
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I see that we are making some progress here.
I do want to say...I think my problem is less with the Bible, the Word of God and more with the idea of "religion" and the many different sects, not to mention another man's interpretation and ideals of how I should worship and give my life and heart over to the Lord.
I am sure there are those that will disagree and feel that my choice is wrong...but I don't worship our God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit in an organized religious setting (i.e. the church). My problem is that I have been to several churches, observed many sects in their message, but go away feeling as if I have just been slapped in the face. I have sat in many churches and looked around the congregation to find myself surrounded by hypocrites.
I will come right out and say...I had my daughter out of wedlock...and I actually find now that the choice to not marry her father was a good choice. We had been together for a few years prior to her conception and was engaged to be married before she was ever born. The pregnancy made me rethink my life and what life with her biological father would mean. Not marrying this man was probably the best choice I ever made....and in sinning by having a child out of wedlock, was IMO, probably better in the eyes of the Lord then the alternative. You see, the irony is that while it was "sinful" to be unmarried and give birth...her biological father could only lead myself and my daughter down a path of evil and sin. Had I stayed in union with him, I may have never have found myself or the love I have with my now husband and his gift to my daughter of a true father.
Now here's the kicker....I was looked down upon by members of the church congregation because I was young (19) and pregnant, yet unmarried. I am delighted to have conceived my daughter and she was a true gift of God. I conceived her in Love. Not pure, clean love....but love nonetheless. I don't feel it was anyone's right to pass judgment or make me feel like I had. Not only did the congregation look down upon me, but our minister looked at me as if I had committed murder or rape. I ran from that Church to another. The same response. I made the choice to not return to Church...but to worship the Lord in my heart instead. The fact that I may not have all the details or comprehend the Word of God in every aspect, I feel, does not mean that I am any less of a child to my Father. In fact, my choice to separate myself from the very people who were not abiding by His Word, I feel was the path the Lord intended me to take.
I knew in my heart that God would forgive my sins, in light of making the right choices. I do believe in "the lesser of two evils". LOL.
So you see, Pete...some of what I have been saying here is less about the Word of God and more about my personal relationship with God and the application of Gods instructions in my own life.
I don't think you can take the Word without applying it to the individual and the circumstances in that person's life. I don't feel organized religion is the way into the gates and eternal life, rather, how you live your life in God's name.
Now's here where I tie all this in....Because God knows that man sins...I don't think I can say for sure that God will condemn a person for their homosexuality. I feel that, not all people have the power to overcome all...I think someone's heart can be open to God and they can ask for forgiveness and God will give it, despite their weakness as man.
God created us as creatures EXPECTED to make mistakes. In God's love we can live knowing that there is forgiveness of all "sin". As long as you give your life over to God, live to be the best person you can be...God will still accept you into his embrace, despite your inability to overcome sin.
Anyway...anyone here can RE-INTERPRET or give SCRIPTURE to the contrary, and it wouldn't change how I feel or my belief in this. I know my way may not be what the Bible absolutely adheres to but I also know that I am strong in my beliefs and live as best I can to do what God would want me to do.
BTW... my dad was recently terminally ill. He was visited by the Holy Spirit. There are details that make my beliefs stronger...and if anyone wants to know, I will share...but the short of the story is that my Dad was a sinner. Not always able to overcome his sin and shortcomings....but was visited nonetheless. He didn't attend church because of being raised in the 30's in a Catholic boys school. He didn't read the Bible...but I know he prayed. I do know that he made peace with the Lord, and was counseled by a minister while on his deathbed. He passed quickly and in his sleep when his time came. I have no doubt where his sinning soul ended up...I know he is with God our Father. Therein is my proof that we can sin, ask forgiveness, and while we never may fully cleanse ourselves, we will not be turned away.
I know this was long...but felt a need share. BTW...
PETE... I wanted you to know I am Amanda McWilliams...Bruce McWilliams' wife. The "uncle" I was referring to was Rev. Sam. Now that he is here in Cambridge we do occasionally go to Church. Uncle Sam performed our marriage vows, along with Rev. Gary Crouch. Two men who have never passed judgment and welcomed me open armed. I have given my name on other posts...and have no reason to not allow anyone to know who I am...my views and positions are the same in personam as are on the blogs.....
Take Care All.
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4Godncountry
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:10 pm |
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Good post pete! Just a couple of Scripture references that I am sure you know, just thought I would post. They may help.
- Psalms 111:10 KJV The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
- Proverbs 1:7 KJV The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
To fear is to have a Holy Reverence, not to be afraid. Understanding who He is, will cause this.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 01:46 pm |
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LB writes...
It is a book written by many hands at many differant times. But God breathed by one God.
It is a Book unlike any other. Many of its prophecies have been fulfilled. And, it is a life changing book that can change one by the Holy Spirit by the power of God.
Ah, so your last sentence must be a fault on my part?
Believe me, LB, that does not bother me personally but it bothers me for your sake, and I am not slamming you.
LB, it is good to fear. It's a start, for any of us.
It happened to me too.
In 1969 I knew about Christ, but did not know Him.
Billy Graham, one of the greatest evangelists of that time, was on the radio and kept preaching on Revelation. (I'm sure you are familiar with it).
I read Revelation four times, and despite the passages of mercy that are in their, just like many on this thread, all I could see was the judgment of God. Indeed, I feared too.
But LB, if you would please look objectively at what I have posted, you would see I have included the mercy of God.
Sure I said sin is sin.
Sure I said rejection of the Cure means judgment (perhaps not in those exact words)
But I also offered the loving mercy of God numerous times.
I referred to the Cure.
I did not blame Billy Graham for making me afraid - because he did not.
I did get super mad at my friend (not Graham, but a HS junior) for indicating I was going to hell. But upon reading the Word of God and committing to Christ, aye, he was indeed my friend.
It is up to us how we react to the Word.
I've copied and pasted Scripture like Romans 1 - a number of verses - but that was with a purpose. It starts off with the mercy of God and concludes with judgment for those who had rejected the knowledge of God. While it is good to note the judgment of God, I adjure you, and not only you, to latch on to the first part by faith.
God does love you and me and surely does not want us to go to hell. But He says, not me, the only way to prevent us from going to hell is committing to the cross of His.
Let me re-write committing --- totally dedicate, completely dedicate.
God bless,
Pete
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little blackwater
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 01:00 pm |
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| Signing off on this subject, it's no fun anymore.Pete your knowledge of what is written,I have never questioned.It is a book written by many hands at many differant times.It is a book that some of us may take "parts "of as a rule and guide of our conduct.I also believe its purpose is to be iterpeted by the reader.Religion is a wonerful thing,when I attend Church''Not on a regular basis"I want leave feeling fulfilled and without fear,this is a talent that some preachers surely lack.
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4Godncountry
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:46 am |
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thinkfirst wrote:
And might I ask about HAPPILY MARRIED couples that commit sodomy?? Don't ask, don't tell? I think my question was avoided...
not to be confused, the scripture below is between only a man and a woman, who are married. This scripture is used as a catch all for just such debatable topics.
However, it is an ancient practice of the sodomites, which in Genesis was destroyed (sodom) along with Gommorah for perverted sexual practices including homosexuality, sodomy and the Like. Marriage does give beleivers certain rights, most though are not spelled out. (homosexuality is!)
Hebrews 13:4 KJV Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge .
Last edited on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:48 am by 4Godncountry
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:39 am |
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TF wrote,,,
"Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion" Corn Nugget YOU inadvertently the burning question that none of the other men answered for me!!! Aye. But remember, there is a difference between religion and a right relatiionship with God.
So we go by this instead...
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Essentially a number of principles are set forth in this verse.
One, for example, is that the Holy Bible speaks with one voice.
The other is "Holy Scripture interprets Holy Scripture."
For example, check out Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Now, that does not mean we are going to have you dance with a cobra at our church and sip some Kool Aid spiked with arsenic.
And example of what it does mean is found in Acts where Paul accidently picks up a viper, gets bit, shakes the bugger off into a fire - and survives.
God bless,
Pete
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:29 am |
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"Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion"
Corn Nugget YOU inadvertently the burning question that none of the other men answered for me!!! Thank you! And that was my second giggle for the day.... the first being that noone knew what the S word was I guess.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:15 am |
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scrapple wrote..
(they were Buddhist statues...) correct, and I knew that, but one can easily assume they will be just as happy to blow up Hindu ones. For all we know, they probably did.
God bless,
Pete
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scrapple
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:11 am |
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| (they were Buddhist statues...)
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 01:52 am |
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Corn writes...
Pete, Out of curiosity, how is it that Man creates religion and that religion creates the rules of that religion where as that creates difference of opinion on what "religion" really stands for on an individual basis........when in fact the Bible does state that the relationship between God and "Man" is a personal thing, not a religious thing and does not have to conform to a "religion" or that religions belief. Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion. Hence, however it applies, so it suffice in all races and peoples of the lands. What one finds most of the times is an evolution of interpretation that suffices societal change and acceptance given the period of societal evolution.
Correct me if I am wrong Corn, but you are making a distinction between religion and relationship with God, right? If so, I most heartily agree.
Now, for those that read my response, I am now about to speak about religion - not a necessarily a relationship with God - in response to Corn, unless otherwise noted.
I'll take it phrase by phrase. Easier for me.
how is it that Man creates religion...
I would say it is because every person is created in the image of God, and though I would say we are complete unable to save ourselves, there is a need within each of us for the living God.
and that religion creates the rules of that religion where as that creates difference of opinion on what "religion" really stands for on an individual basis...
Because we are sinners, we all have a natural sinful tendency to take the wrong path (the right path being defined by the Holy Bible, especially the Words of Christ - John 14:6). Without the right path, though people don't realize it, they follow their own. Sometimes that path is collectively shaped by their local society. So just as there are social clashes, there are religious clashes. Hence, the Taliban think they do Allah service by blasting away at a Hindu statue. And you know it goes on.
Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion. Hence, however it applies, so it suffice in all races and peoples of the lands. What one finds most of the times is an evolution of interpretation that suffices societal change and acceptance given the period of societal evolution. when in fact the Bible does state that the relationship between God and "Man" is a personal thing, not a religious thing and does not have to conform to a "religion" or that religions belief.
Exactly. That's very good.
Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion
Correct.
Hence, however it applies, so it suffice in all races and peoples of the lands. What one finds most of the times is an evolution of interpretation that suffices societal change and acceptance given the period of societal evolution.
Correct.
Now, in regard to the relationship side, for truly born again Christians there is uniformity of thought and belief on the basic fundementals.
So readers understand, for example, I am not a Calvinist in belief, but I sure can work with my true brothers in Christ who are Calvinists when it comes to evangelical matters.
Conversely, my Calvinist brothers know I am Pentecostal, but we agree on the essentials of Christianity and work within the community.
I was just working on something along that line while I was waiting for the storm to pass by.
Thanks Corn
God bless,
Pete
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 01:27 am |
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Corn - I just got back online and will answer your questions, unless another t-storm pops up.
Scrapple wrote...
People can make the Bible mean anything they want it to. Would that include you too Scrapple, with your take on Deuteronomy.
Here, have some mercy from Deuteronomy:
De 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
De 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
De 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
De 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
De 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
De 21:8 Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and lay not innocent blood unto thy people of Israel’s charge. And the blood shall be forgiven them.
Enjoy
God bless,
Pete
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scrapple
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 12:38 am |
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| People can make the Bible mean anything they want it to.
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Corn Nugget
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 12:30 am |
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Pete Macinta wrote:
If one accepts the cross of Christ, then sin is removed. The new child of God then grows in Christ. The only thing we do wrong that sends us to hell is rejecting the Cure for sin - Christ.
Pete,
Out of curiosity, how is it that Man creates religion and that religion creates the rules of that religion where as that creates difference of opinion on what "religion" really stands for on an individual basis........when in fact the Bible does state that the relationship between God and "Man" is a personal thing, not a religious thing and does not have to conform to a "religion" or that religions belief. Interpretation typically is by man, thusly, creating an interpretation that is pertinent and personal with that man's desire to have it fit his religion. Hence, however it applies, so it suffice in all races and peoples of the lands. What one finds most of the times is an evolution of interpretation that suffices societal change and acceptance given the period of societal evolution.
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 11:56 pm |
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But TF, there is scientific evidence to show the opposite too.
After living over half a century, I've seen a time when scientists said eggs are good. Then years later they were bad for you. Now, it's do it in moderation.
Science once thought that the atom could not be split.
That's one reasonwhy I stick with the Word.
God bless,
Pete
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thinkfirst
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 11:50 pm |
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Actually, there is a LOT of scientific evidence that homosexuality is determined before birth, and there is a lot of research happening now.
In ancient times the Romans had no concern about who or what people had sex with... animals, children, men OR women. There was a LOT of partying going on and a lot of evil stuff that wasn't about preference, but about indulging oneself. The 10 commandments covers all the rules. But Jesus covered the heart... He loved and opened His heart to ALL, as the Church should. The Church is a Beacon!
And might I ask about HAPPILY MARRIED couples that commit sodomy?? Don't ask, don't tell? I think my question was avoided...
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4Godncountry
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 11:49 pm |
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little blackwater wrote: 4 god and country your first sentance. If my nephew chooses to be homosexual,it would be his choice reminded me of many things I have read on Native American history.Native Americans were deeply Spiritual people, more so than many of our relicions today.Prior to Colonization "White mans religion "same sex sexuality centered around the two Spirit Person in the majority of tribes.The two Spirit person was reconized early in life and was given a choice as to which path to follow and was rasised in the appropriate manner as to the gender of the path they chose to follow.Two Spirit people were almost always shamans"spiritual leaders" and were revered as having powers beyond those of ordinary Shamans.Thier sexual life would be with that of tribal members of the same sex.Then and now they believed in one creator,One supreme architect of the universe, prayed for the land ,sky and thier enemies and there Spiritual leader could very well of been Gay.
To the original question should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry.As long as they are not afforded any special privilages because they are Gay it is none of the States,CHURCH"S or my bussiness.Find a Shaman to marry you and get on with life.The creator I know and understand will not banish you to HELL for being Gay.
obviously you do not know the same creator I do!
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Pete Macinta
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 10:02 pm |
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scrapple wrote
According to Deuteronomy, Little Blackwater ... someone here may be required to smite you! I like your version of the spiritual world better than the fire and brimstone version practiced by many here. And I agree, native Americans were far more in tune with the natural and perhaps spiritual world around them than the clumsy, disease-spreading, slaughtering and conversion-by-gunpoint Europeans who killed them off.
Well scrapple, you must have missed the mercy part that was offered, many many times by me, and others.
And please clearly, most clearly understand this: Christ took the brimstone for those who would commit to Him. If one does not commit to Christ, the brimstone awaits, as prejudged and predetermined. But, if one accepts the mercy of God, the cross of Christ, then they inherit eternal life.
scrapple, you seem a little stuck on Deu. Read the whole Bible for the complete view.
In reply to lb where he writes ...
The creator I know and understand will not banish you to HELL for being Gay.
Little Blackwater, please understand that He does not.
Hell is for those who reject the cross of Christ. If one accepts the cross of Christ, then sin is removed. The new child of God then grows in Christ. The only thing we do wrong that sends us to hell is rejecting the Cure for sin - Christ.
Again, for the many, many times I have written it - the mercy of God is in the cross.
God in love and mercy veiled Himself in flesh, conquered all temptation.
As Christ went to the cross, my sin, your sin, everyone's sin was given to Him and God punished that.
He took the punishment. That is mercy. That is holy love. But we must commit to that, and in so doing, we then, if we have truly commit, forsake sin by the power of Christ. That, of course, is learning experience, but we are to grow in Christ.
Comprendo?
Do you guys see the mucho mercy?
God bless,
PeteLast edited on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 10:04 pm by Pete Macinta
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scrapple
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 09:47 pm |
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According to Deuteronomy, Little Blackwater ... someone here may be required to smite you!
I like your version of the spiritual world better than the fire and brimstone version practiced by many here. And I agree, native Americans were far more in tune with the natural and perhaps spiritual world around them than the clumsy, disease-spreading, slaughtering and conversion-by-gunpoint Europeans who killed them off.
I am a decendent of both (mostly the European side).
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little blackwater
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 05:49 pm |
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4 god and country your first sentance. If my nephew chooses to be homosexual,it would be his choice reminded me of many things I have read on Native American history.Native Americans were deeply Spiritual people, more so than many of our relicions today.Prior to Colonization "White mans religion "same sex sexuality centered around the two Spirit Person in the majority of tribes.The two Spirit person was reconized early in life and was given a choice as to which path to follow and was rasised in the appropriate manner as to the gender of the path they chose to follow.Two Spirit people were almost always shamans"spiritual leaders" and were revered as having powers beyond those of ordinary Shamans.Thier sexual life would be with that of tribal members of the same sex.Then and now they believed in one creator,One supreme architect of the universe, prayed for the land ,sky and thier enemies and there Spiritual leader could very well of been Gay.
To the original question should two people of the same sex be allowed to marry.As long as they are not afforded any special privilages because they are Gay it is none of the States,CHURCH"S or my bussiness.Find a Shaman to marry you and get on with life.The creator I know and unders | | |