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Sal Ergrapes
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Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 09:45 pm |
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I am curious, if you were to replace "God" & "Jesus" in this thread with "Allah", "Buddha" or "Shiva".... would opinions of this change?
Also Penman's posts scared me....
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Soundlightman
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Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 04:10 pm |
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The Origin of "Separation of Church and State" (good article)
NOT SEPARATION OF GOD FROM STATE
Please take time to read this article
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/987191/posts
This will shed some light on this discussion
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Penman
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 05:50 pm |
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Dockside wrote: mommom5 wrote:
Now, what part of that prayer offends you?
How about all of it? This prayer is listing a specific god which certain members of the community do NOT believe in. How would you feel if there was a Muslim, Buddist, or Satanic Prayer at CHS? That's why all prayer should be removed. Sure, people have the freedom to prayer...but they don't have the freedom to pray anywhere they want. If they want prayer at graduation, they should do it before and/or after.
One of the lines from the pastor at the recent ceremony was "Your future is in God's hands." Not every student believes or wants that! I was highly embarrassed when I heard that at my graduation.
Vavoom, I see absolutely no problem with gay pride events in schools...as long as they are voluntary. The same goes for Christian and other religious events. They can be offered at school (such as a club) as long as they are VOLUNTARY and not part of ceremony/requirements/etc.
There is also NO link between gangs/drugs and lack of prayer. That's an excuse that has been used by conservatives for years. I thought in Crisfield especially, you would have found "christians" with drug problems!
telitilketis09, some of the founding fathers of this country were atheist. Despite any of these facts, we are a progressive nation that is about change. Free speech has nothing to do with this argument. This is about CHS/City Council violating the rights of it's citizens. Dockside-Straight up-You're a liar, and a fool-PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
I WILL have you to know that: all but 3 of the 55 men who drafted the Constitution
were ACTIVE members of their church. And those 3 were still belied in what they wrote otherwise they would not have written what they did.
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Penman
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 05:12 pm |
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Dockside wrote: Are there any other people that are offended that Christian prayer is STILL part of graduation ceremonies at our local PUBLIC high school? At the recent Crisfield High graduation, the first part of the ceremony after the graduates were seated was prayer. Another prayer was later given by a PASTOR, none of this was student led. This is illegal and prayer of any kind should be completely REMOVED from graduation ceremonies at this school.
The ACLU of Maryland received a letter regarding these issues. All of my family has now graduated from the local high school, however a group of students brought this issue up years ago and was told that I could "not choose to show up" What kind of answer is that? I'm sure there are current CHS students who hold non-Christian beliefs that are offended as well. I'm asking them to step forward and let me know some more information via private message. Strength in numbers. The ACLU needs our support.
Also, why is the Lord's Prayer given at each city council meeting? This is another violation of separation of Church & State. Speaking of infringemnt-why don't YOU stop pushing your pagan/nazi/communist views on me, and MY kids. Jesus Christ gave me the RIGHT to pray-He bled and died a VICIOUS death at the hands of Godless people just like YOU, and I'm not going to stand by and watch the likes of YOU take away what GOD HIMSELF has given. We were RAISED on God, prayer and the Bible...These are concepts that our FOUNDING FATHERS fought and died for. Concepts that I will fight and die for. If you don't like our heritage of prayer- GET OUT!!! and go to the USSR, Iran, Afghanistan, or somewhere where prayer is also illegal . You're a DISGRACE to the FLAG of this great nation.
it's HIGH TIME that as Christians take a proactive approach to these pagans and start standing up to them-they are a minority-NOT a majority.
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Kabouro
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 03:19 am |
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dockside, blackjellybean and comeherebutnotforlong have valid points. prayer is perfectly acceptable, i do it every day. but when you're shoving your way through other people's beliefs and forcing prayer of another religion on them, its not okay. not everyone has the same point of view. not everyone wants to say the same things to their God (or lack thereof). everyone in this thread have different opinions and should be fighting each other to get their point across because as hard as you try you will never change how someone else thinks. i dont agree with prayers in schools simply because prayer means something different to everyone. how about a moment of silence? silent prayer never killed anyone.
p.s. times are changing... get with the program.
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comeherebutnotforlong
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 10:03 pm |
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two things here that are quite striking... 1. the rapid way so many people want to simplify the world and it's problems into two distinct views, as if there were only two on these topics, i.e., liberal vs. conservative, black vs. white, blue vs. red. I think that's counterproductive to our concept of democracy and a rich, vibrant discussion.
2. this is the most worrisome when it comes to this topic...it was our nation's founding fathers and many generations before them that left England to escape religious persecution and oppressive government. Yet, here is someone that simply says "we don't want to hear your opinion."
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tellitlikeitis09
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:46 pm |
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| OK HERE WE GO. SINCE YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR PRAYER... WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR OPINION. WE DON'T WANT YOUR LIBERAL THINKING OR ACTIONS. WE CAN MAKE THIS A TWO WAY STREET..
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Vavoom
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 10:32 pm |
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My fellow Christians I recommend you read "Persecution:How Liberals are waging a war against Christianity" by David Limbaugh.The school districts that will make a student take off a cross necklace will invite trannies to school assemblies to glorify cross-dressing.Why is it that every other lifestyle BUT one is accepted and even promoted by public schools?
And the comparison between prayer in schools and segregation is not only lame,but a slap in the face to those who were forced to go to seperate schools at one time.I do not think they would agree with your conclusion.
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comeherebutnotforlong
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 09:33 pm |
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the worst thing about the forums for so called discussion, is that people rarely give thoughtful responses or make contributions that are written in a way that helps people with views different from their own better understand their points and opinions.
just read this thread...
"When I was in school if you didn't believe in GOD you just kept quiet until prayer was finished. If you don't believe in GOD keep quiet! Have you ever thought that the world starting falling apart when people that didn't believe in GOD started complaining "
Well, actually no. I've not thought about just keeping quiet, and whether I believe in your God or any god not relevant. further, I'm really curious, when did the world start falling apart?
I don't know when the author of this passage went to school, but when my mother was in school is was legally accepted that blacks could not attend the same schools as whites. There was no defensible reason for that, and there is no defensible reason to keep quiet when you feel you have been subjected to disproportionately representative religious views at ceremonies held by a public institution.
Change the channel? I agree. the channel needs to be changed, or more appropriately, we need more channels to view.
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lovemytown
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 07:37 pm |
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| What is the world coming too?? When I was in school if you didn't believe in GOD you just kept quiet until prayer was finished. If you don't believe in GOD keep quiet! Have you ever thought that the world starting falling apart when people that didn't believe in GOD started complaining
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mommom5
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:58 pm |
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Just for the record - I have a right to hear a prayer in school (freedom of speech) as well as you have a right not too (don't listen). Isn't it something that men and women are willing to die for your right to object to what they are fighting for? America - One Nation Under God - INDIVISIBLE- with liberty and justice for all.
I would ask you Mr. Dockside to truly look inside yourself - you will note that that part of you that is disturbed by all of this (prayer) is the part of you that needs to allow Jesus to come in and take control of it. He will if you will ask, He is no respecter of persons. He will also give you the 'right' to reject Him.
The choice is yours.
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blackjellybean
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 03:26 pm |
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| There is a reason CHS holds a Baccalaureate AND a graduation. Because church and schools can't mix! Not all students are religious, look at how many showed up at the baccalaureate this year. Look at Washington High's graduates this year, there is proof we have multi religions in our community! Last edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 03:31 pm by blackjellybean
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crabber2
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 12:16 pm |
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| So the majority has to change just to please you? I don't think that is quite the way it should be. Like I said before, if you don't like what is on the channel change it. I get so sick and tire of a very select few ruining it for the masses. Remember we have a choice too. If you like the channel don't change it.
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Dockside
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 11:23 am |
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Crisfield isn't dying, it's already dead.
As for "thin skinned" people who always "whin to the ACLU"..I made it clear that I addressed this issue with the principal of the school at the time of my graduation and was basically told I could "choose not to attend..." That's not an acceptable answer and I bet other students have raised concern about this throughout the years. The ACLU is a UNION of people with similar thoughts.to protect our civil liberties.
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crabber2
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 03:40 am |
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If you don't like it, leave it. I find something that offends me on TV I change the channel. Why should CHS alter the things it does to suit you when it doesn't seem to offend most of the people. Why don't you just change the channel instead of trying to ruin it for the majority of the people.
And why do you thin skinned people always have to go whinning to the ACLU when you can't get your way?
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Vavoom
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 01:24 am |
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| Do you know why they are installing cameras?Look around!Every week theres young people listed in the paper for being arrested in Crisfield because they have nothing better to do in the middle of a workday than fight each other.The cameras at least will identify who is involved in these street brawls that seem to be the acceptable norm these days and provide police with some extra security.
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blackjellybean
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 12:18 am |
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Prayer should not be allowed in public schools and their graduation for this reason, NOT everyone has the SAME religion. Everyone doesn't pray the same way!
CHS isn't filled with just christians and atheists you know!!!! So be respectful to everyone's beliefs because we as Americans have the right to freedom of religion.
Go get 'em DocksideLast edited on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 12:20 am by blackjellybean
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comeherebutnotforlong
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Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 09:32 pm |
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The issue here is not prayer, it is venue for prayer. while I am not personally offended by being subjected to christian prayer in public forums, it does run contrary to U.S.Supreme Court rulings on the seperation of church and state. it's really too bad that y'all can't discuss the topic without throwing around hate and venom. that's definitely not in the spirit of Jesus the Christ of which I have read.
More importantly, at least to me, why on earth are you arguing about prayer at CHS and making ridiculous accusations about how anything goes, or how offensive it is to sit through a prayer, while Crisfield burns? This town is dying. Just look around. Honoring watermen, installing surveillance cameras and building Food Lions will not bring meaningful jobs, choices, or a future to Crisfield.
Work together. Find common ground. Spend your money locally. And try being nice to each other.
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Vavoom
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Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 12:28 am |
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I just find it amazing that "anything goes" these days in public school EXCEPT God.
Do they even do "The Pledge of Allegiance" anymore or has that been sanitized too?
I understand that some people do not believe but take a look around...this is Somerset County and I am willing to bet that most of the population,regardless of race,age or background,are Christian. I know there is alot of hypocrisy(sp?) afoot and I admit I do not go to church regularly nor am I very conservative and prim and proper,but I believe in God,and I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe that he (Jesus) died for us.
Last edited on Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 12:34 am by Vavoom
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tellitlikeitis09
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 10:33 pm |
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| HERE'S AN IDEA FOR YOU!!!......SHOVE SOMETHING IN YOUR EARS. WHILE YOUR AT IT SHOVE SOMETHING IN YOUR MOUTH. IF THEY WANT TO PRAY LET THEM. IT'S OUR GIVEN RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY. LIKE YOUR OPINION IT COULD MEAN NOTHING. DON'T TRY TO CHANGE SOMETHING BECAUSE OF YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF. IF YOU BELIEVE YOUR ANCESTORS ARE APE'S THAT'S YOUR OPINION, NOT OURS. SO CITY HALL AND CRISFIELD HIGH SCHOOL PRAY IT UP!!!! USE YOUR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGION.
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Dockside
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 09:29 pm |
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mommom5 wrote:
Now, what part of that prayer offends you?
How about all of it? This prayer is listing a specific god which certain members of the community do NOT believe in. How would you feel if there was a Muslim, Buddist, or Satanic Prayer at CHS? That's why all prayer should be removed. Sure, people have the freedom to prayer...but they don't have the freedom to pray anywhere they want. If they want prayer at graduation, they should do it before and/or after.
One of the lines from the pastor at the recent ceremony was "Your future is in God's hands." Not every student believes or wants that! I was highly embarrassed when I heard that at my graduation.
Vavoom, I see absolutely no problem with gay pride events in schools...as long as they are voluntary. The same goes for Christian and other religious events. They can be offered at school (such as a club) as long as they are VOLUNTARY and not part of ceremony/requirements/etc.
There is also NO link between gangs/drugs and lack of prayer. That's an excuse that has been used by conservatives for years. I thought in Crisfield especially, you would have found "christians" with drug problems!
telitilketis09, some of the founding fathers of this country were atheist. Despite any of these facts, we are a progressive nation that is about change. Free speech has nothing to do with this argument. This is about CHS/City Council violating the rights of it's citizens.
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tellitlikeitis09
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 02:35 pm |
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| TO ANY MEMBER OR SUPPORTER OF THE ACLU. YOU ARE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT IDIOTS. THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON GOD. MAYBE THE ACLU SHOULD READ AND LEARN HISTORY!! OUR FOUR FATHERS GAVE US THAT RIGHT. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED TO PROTECT THAT RIGHT. WHICH I'M PRETTY SURE NONE OF THEM SERVED THIS GREAT COUNTRY. OK LETS DO THIS,TAKE PRAYER OUT OF SCHOOLS AN TAKE AWAY FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH. TAKE AWAY FREE SPEECH AND MAYBE YOU IDIOT'S WOULD SHUT UP.
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Vavoom
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Posted: Sun Jun 21st, 2009 04:26 am |
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Great..just what Crisfield needs,a visit from the folks at "AC to-hell-with-you"(ACLU)
Just to clarify,freedom of religion has NOTHING to do with prayer in schools and everything to do with being free to practice whatever religion you want to as an American.Prayer in school was stripped from us because an old hateful Godless hag named Madlyn MurrayO'Hare made a big stink over her son being "offended" by morning prayers in a Baltimore public school back in the 1960's.
If things continue down this slippery slope,Crisfield Christian Academy can expect a large enrollment in the years to come because Christian parents are getting fed up with their kids being treated like pariahs,not just here but in public schools everywhere.Public schools have "gay pride" events for underage kids but prayer is bad???Theres been gang and drug activity on campus at CHS in the past but all you bleeding hearts give a d**n about is whether there is prayer going on or not.Respectfully,get a life and get God in it.
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John W
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Posted: Sat Jun 20th, 2009 11:32 pm |
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| Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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mommom5
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 07:47 pm |
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I for one am very dissappointed that there is not MORE prayer in schools.
Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory forever. Amen.
Now, what part of that prayer offends you?
The part where you give God reverence? Did you not get up this morning to another day?
The part where you are asking Him to supply your needs? Are you hungry?
The part where you are asking Him to forgive you your sins? God forbid that offends you!
The part where you are asking Him to deliver you from evil? Don't you want to do the right thing by your self, family, friends and neighbors?
The part that gives Him Glory? He is deserving of it after the price He paid on calvary.
I say the more prayer the better we are and the better our young people will be.
I don't know about your money - but on the back of mine it says...THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST......if you don't like that how giving it to those who can use and believe it?
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Dockside
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 08:31 pm |
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Are there any other people that are offended that Christian prayer is STILL part of graduation ceremonies at our local PUBLIC high school? At the recent Crisfield High graduation, the first part of the ceremony after the graduates were seated was prayer. Another prayer was later given by a PASTOR, none of this was student led. This is illegal and prayer of any kind should be completely REMOVED from graduation ceremonies at this school.
The ACLU of Maryland received a letter regarding these issues. All of my family has now graduated from the local high school, however a group of students brought this issue up years ago and was told that I could "not choose to show up" What kind of answer is that? I'm sure there are current CHS students who hold non-Christian beliefs that are offended as well. I'm asking them to step forward and let me know some more information via private message. Strength in numbers. The ACLU needs our support.
Also, why is the Lord's Prayer given at each city council meeting? This is another violation of separation of Church & State.Last edited on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 09:09 pm by Dockside
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