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DreamlandMan
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Posted: Sun Aug 19th, 2007 08:59 am |
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Homeowners' rights groups fight back against HOAs
New state laws give more power to residents facing conflicts with associations
Cary Aspinwall
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 15, 2005 12:00 AM
Across the country and in Arizona, increasing numbers of homeowners associations are watching for weeds in the yard, prohibited paint colors and unapproved renovations or remodels.
Last week Arizona's newest HOA laws went into effect, making it easier for residents to remove board members and eliminating proxy voting, among other changes.
Homeowners' rights groups and the author of the new legislation, Rep. Chuck Gray of Mesa, have touted the HOA reform package passed under House Bill 2154 as a way to resolve many of the conflicts within HOAs.
An estimated 54 million Americans live in areas governed by homeowner and condominium associations, and the number continues growing, according to the Community Associations Institute in Alexandria, Va. There are as many as 9,000 HOAs in Arizona alone.
So who's watching the growing number of HOAs?
Officially, no one, at least in Arizona. HOAs act as de facto minigovernments but are usually classified as private, non-profit corporations.
They have powers that most private corporations don't - they can foreclose on a home if the homeowner doesn't pay assessments. Yet there's no government agency required to monitor or regulate the everyday workings of HOAs.
That's what George Staropoli discovered about five years ago when his Phoenix HOA decided to gate the neighborhood's entrance, a decision he didn't agree with.
"These (HOAs) are really governments," Staropoli said. "But the concept of a democracy with majority rule but minority rights is lost."
He lost the fight on the gated entrance and remained in the community, but he continues to fight against HOAs by lobbying with the group he started, Citizens for Constitutional Local Government.
Homeowners in Arizona who disagree with fines they are charged or want to fight a lien placed on their property by an HOA have only the HOA to appeal to, he said. Or they can file a civil lawsuit at their own expense.
The state Legislature has typically passed a new slate of laws each year meant to clarify or restrict the power of HOAs. The primary features of this year's batch include a simplified process of removing board members from office, eliminating proxy voting and ensuring that homeowners' payments are first applied to any unpaid assessments.
An entire cottage industry of property management groups, attorneys and homeowners' rights lobbying groups has sprung out of the debate.
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Frustrated with the Board for not letting you speak at meetings?.......... The Coalition of Homeowners for Rights and Education or the American Homeowners Resource Center will advise you of your rights.
Last edited on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 12:36 pm by DreamlandMan
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 10:20 pm |
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NO NO NO BABLE ON AND ON AND ON,
THE CLUB STARTED THIS MANDATORY MEMBERSHIP THING, ONLY THEIR GREED AND FEAR OF THE LOSS OF DUES CAUSED THIS NOTHING ELSE. SO BEEP ON ALL YOU WANT THE TRUTH WILL SOON BE OUT AND YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!!
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Sat Aug 18th, 2007 01:53 pm |
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Last edited on Tue Nov 6th, 2007 10:42 pm by alasbabylon
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 02:27 pm |
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GEE, WHEN I GROW UP I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE BABEL ON AND ON AND ON, NOT !!!!!!!!!! WHAT A NARROW MIND VIEW HE HAS ON THIS MESS IN NIGHTMARE VILLA AND WHAT THE CLUB HAS DONE TO THIS COMMUNITY.
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 12:04 pm |
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alasbabylon wrote: R: I didn't think you would answer the question:::::
As a Member of DVCC how can the CLUB put a lien on my house?
Step 1 levy an assessment for repairs, maintenance, expansion, etc. ________
(You been following the adventures over in Apache Wells? T
Step 2 _You are unable or unwilling to pay it._______
Step 3 ___/Send you a Summons of lien. Step 4. Foreclose on you. Step. 5. Ask Mr. Nelms...Eviction takes 3weeks._____
Are you getting it now?
Etc.
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Fri Aug 17th, 2007 02:06 am |
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Last edited on Tue Nov 6th, 2007 10:43 pm by alasbabylon
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Fri Aug 10th, 2007 01:46 pm |
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HEY BABEL ON AND ON AND ON,
YOU WANT TO KNOW THE STEPS IN GETTING A LEIN ON YOUR HOUSE? TALK TO ANY ONE OF THE FORTY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE COURT SYSTEM NOW TRYING TO DEFEND THEIR PROPERTY, THEY CAN ENLIGHTEN YOU. BUT THEN, YOU ARE SO ONE MINDED I DOUBT YOU TALK TO ANYONE BUT THE GOOD OLD BOYS AND GIRLS AT THE CLUB THAT ARE OF THE SAME MIND SET AS YOU. YOU COULD BROADEN YOUR OUTLOOK BUT I DOUBT YOU WILL DO IT. IT WOULD TAKE TO MUCH FOR YOU TO GET OUT OF YOUR BOX AND OFF YOUR DUFF AND REALLY FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN NIGHTMARE VILLA.
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2007 04:37 pm |
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alasbabylon wrote: Dorothy7: You take numbers and they change from paragraph to paragraph! No wonder everyone is confused about what happened.
Dorothy responds:
It is not I have changed the numbers alas: The Minutes in the Citizen quote that "400" people showed up to hear Mr. Maxwell" Then, in the final paragraph cite the vote to hire him as "200 For, and 9 Against." What happened to the remaining 191 "people"? Is that what confuses you? Well, it does me too. were there really only 209 people present? Or, were 191 not allowed to vote and sent home????? Who knows? Ask your friends. They most likely expelled them as disruptive. Dorothy
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2007 11:51 am |
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| Dorothy7: You take numbers and they change from paragraph to paragraph! No wonder everyone is confused about what happened.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:23 pm |
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Dorothy responds; You have already given up on how to expel "disruptive members?" And now, of course you have given up on the "homeowners did it", and have lapsed into who hired a "firm"?
I want to know your source for validating any of the goofy circular statements you make. Do you ever read the Minutes of DVCC Meetings? EVER? The proofs of who is correct, and who is clutching at straws of hopeful rhetoric without meaning?
There is a right and a wrong in this debate. The club acted with only 200 of over 3000 members it was claiming in 2002, which does not even approach a tiny fraction of owners who would be affected by their scam. THE MINUTES ASSERT THAT THEY USED THOSE MEAGRE 200 MEMBERS TO HIRE MR. MAXWELL.
Later they claimed "An overwhelming majority" voted to approve amendments at the January 13, 2004 meeting when only 296 voted to approve. 296 out of approximately 1,000 who showed up to vote, OVER HALF OF WHOM were sent home. There are a minimum of 4,400 owners of lots in Dreamland Villa...that's not including any of the renters in the 574 units owned by Farnsworth enterprises and subsidiaries. Four Thousand Four Hundred owners who should have had their votes recorded and counted.
This is not rocket science. It is a simple thing.
If you want people to sign a contract with you for your service, you first send them a copy of that contract, and ask them to sign it, if they approve of the terms of that agreement. Right?
All the problems we now face are a result of the Board not having mailed copies of The Second Amended Declaration of Restrictions to 2,693 lot owners, and asked them to sign it if they approved of the terms.
THE BOARD DID NOT DO WHAT IS REQUIRED UNDER LAW TO HAVE AN ENFORCEABLE AGREEMENT.
THE BOARD IS 100% TO BLAME FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS AND EXPENSE OF FORCING THEM TO OBEY THE LAW IN COURT.
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:00 pm |
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Dorothy7: If it is true! That is what we are getting at and waiting forwith the court system.
To say the Board hired the Law Firm is different than the saying Board hired the Law Firm with the Clubs Members approval is a different thing.
I could use that logic and "say that you decieved a lot of old , ill and frightened people" when actually what happened is you explained your side of the issue! If that is what happened??
What I have always tried to point out is that the Board members ( with limited terms ) and all of the volunteers and all of the active members are property owners and neighbors and aren't going to all these things to their own property!
A question I have for the bright mind of R: As a Member of DVCC how can the CLUB put a lien on my house?
Step 1 ________
Step 2 ________
Step 3 ________
Etc.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 03:01 pm |
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Dear R. Yep, you are right...Alas refuses to understand that the club claims over 3,000 members presumably with the right to vote, (unless it has unlawfully expelled all the voluntary members, and some of the mandatory members who have the gall to question any of their bizzare actions).
I am attempting to show, that of the number of members claimed by the club (at that time, over 3,000)...apparently only 209 voted to hire Maxwell, or participate in reorganizing DV as a mandatory HOA...9 of that number present voted Not to hire him.
There are Minutes printed in which it is reported that "the club and its committees canvased the residents"...presumably under the sanction of the (are you ready, Alas?) the board of directors.
One is left to conclude that if the board hired the attorney...with only 200 club members approving...and directed its committees to canvas with a petition on which lien, foreclose and evict, as well as loss of the homestead exemption, and that an HOA would be the result of signing...or that the result would then be attached to your deed...was carefully, and deliberately omitted...IF I REPEAT, all that is true...then, who in fact was responsible?
The Board did it...and is still trying to do it. If Alas believes that repetition endows truth to a statement....he may read this last 14 times. ha ha Dorothy
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 01:47 pm |
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DOROTHY,
YOU ARE UP AGAINST A REAL PROBLEM WITH BABEL ON AND ON, YOU TREAT HIM AS THOUGH HE HAS A BRAIN AND CAN COMPLETE A THOUGHT PROCESS. HE HAS DEMONSTRATED HE CAN'T DO ANY OF THAT. HE ONLY HAS ONE TUNNEL VISION AND THAT IS THAT EVERYTHING THE CLUB DOES IS OK. IT IS OK TO ATTACH A VILE DOCUMENT TO EVERYONES DEEDS UNDER THE GUISE OF DEMOCRACY AND A FAIR VOTE. NOW WE ALL KNOW THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. AND ON AND ON HE GOES ABOUT ISSUES THAT DON'T EVEN PERTAIN TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND. SO YOU ARE DUELING WITH AN UN ARMED MAN IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS , BUT WE ADMIRE YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND KINDNESS TOWARD SUCH A NUT CASE. EVEN WHEN THE SHIP IS SINKING , HE STILL WANTS TO ARRANGE THE DECK CHAIRS.
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 11:21 am |
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Dorothy7: Beep Beeep ::: you stated that there were 3000 members absent:::: at the time of voting??? How many Club Members were there in 2002? One day you claim there are a couple of hundred Club Members! Now it was over 3000?
The Board under the guidance of a law firm approached the Club with the mandatory membership issue! The Club voted to approach the Residents with the issue of mandatory membership! The Club volunteers approached the Residents and the Residents approved the issue!
The Board couldn't make membership mandatory!
The Club couldn't make membership mandatory!
The Law Firm couldn't make membership mandatory!
Only one group could " The Residents "
Now we wait! ! ! !
Beep Beep
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 04:23 am |
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Dorothy responds: I refer to the October 2002 Minutes printed in the Citizen, in which Barbara Miller reported that she and MaryAnn Gauner "Had met with an attorney, Charles Maxwell to discuss writing new CC&Rs that would establish "mandatory membership" for the purpose of protecting "property values" in Dreamland Villa.
Subsequently, at a General Meeting which was reported in the Citizen, Mr. Maxwell addressed "a crowd of over 400", and the "vote to hire him for the purposes of writing new CC&rs imposing "mandatory membership" was 200 For, and 9 Opposed."
(No explanation was ever given as to what became of the 191 who did not vote...or were they there? No quorum was recorded, so who knows? More mysterious still, is the careful avoidance of anything about mandatory membership resulting in the establishment of an HOA.)
The lesson here, dear Alas, is don't mess with the keeper of the records. You look really stupid when you do. Read the records...think about what you have read. It really will help your believability. Dorothy7
PS. Wait a bit, dear correspondent, and you will discover how wrong you are about who approved becoming an HOA, and how many did not.
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 05:52 pm |
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Everyone.. Dorothy7 distorts the facts::: she said Under the direction of Mary Anne Glauner, the Board hired an attorney to impose Mandatory Membership...(they said) with a vote of 200 for and 9 against at a meeting at which over 3,000 of the members were absent.
The truth is, the vote was to take the issue of mandatory membership to the residents. The residents approved the issue NOT THE CLUB, NOT THE BOARD AND NOT THE ATTORNEY, THE RESIDENTS DOROTHY, YOURS AND MY NEIGHBORS!
People don't run for the board because of the way the board is treated by a few unhappy residents. Check the attacks on the boards of the communities across the valley.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 12:19 pm |
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Dorothy responds to everyone:
For some time now, I have wanted to encourage the members of the board who have taken the time to review the facts presented on both sides of the issues now under contest in the courts:
Owners of single family dwellings in this nearly 50 year old development purchased their homes here with the following understandings:
1. Certain covenants ran with our deeds that required certain building restrictions on our lots that limited the use of the lots to residential buildings.
2. Those covenants DO NOT INCLUDE any requirements for membership in a club, or corporation, or any financial liability for the maintenance of any property belonging to the club, or the developer. (Farnsworth Inc.)
3. The Articles of Incorporation were filed in 1961, in which a voluntary community club was chartered for "civic and social" purposes. (I found, as a new Board member that obtaining a copy of the Articles required going to the office and asking for a copy, after paying your dues, and were not printed in the DV Directory as a part of the "governing documents". The Constitution and Bylaws and some rules were printed therein). Copies of the Articles were not included in closing documents at the time of sale either.
4. It became apparent to me soon after joining the club in late 1999, that a very small number of DV residents took turns serving on the Board as officers and were desperate to find a source of additional revenues with which to improve the club houses and maintain their recreational facilities.
These 3 dozen or less DV residents actively discouraged attendance at board meetings and annual meetings by refusing to allow members to participate in the discussions, or to bring motions before the board for consideration by the body.|
As a result, less than half the owners were paying dues, and a tiny fraction of those who did pay were attending meetings.
5. They often allowed amendments to the governing documents by a "majority of members present", and failed to establish a quorum of members at all meetings where a quorum was required.
6. This little cadre of owners edited the club's bulletin to members "The Citizen", and is used as a propaganda tool to promote the board's agenda, and refuses to print any member's opinions in opposition .
The Board frequently uses its bulletin to viciously attack those who questioned the policies or actions of the board, and refuse to allow a response.
The Minutes of Meetings were, and still are, edited and/or supplemented at the board's whim. Corrections or additions offered by members are disallowed prior to adoption.
7. Under the direction of Mary Anne Glauner, the Board hired an attorney to impose Mandatory Membership...(they said) with a vote of 200 for and 9 against at a meeting at which over 3,000 of the members were absent.
In fact, they hired him to reorganize DV as an HOA, giving this tiny group of owner-perpetual board members heretofore disallowed powers to fine owners, collect interest on fines, foreclose on owner's property, and ultimately sell it at Sheriff's auction for non-payment of dues.
The Board had always been limited to expenditures of less than $3,000.00 without member's approval. They are now claiming the right to spend over $20,000.00 without notice or approval.
(A careful review of The Citizen beginning in January 2000, and ending in February 2004, reveals that none of the facts outlined above were printed therein prior to hiring the lawyer and "up-dating" the governing documents by fiat.)
8. The club repeatedly assured DV residents that the "New CC&Rs" would not be used to lien DV property or harrass owners...and that..."the terms of the new CC&Rs would be "enforced at the Board's discretion".
9. Now, DVCC has 40 cases before the Superior Court. (according to their attorney's statement at a recent hearing) challenging their right to enforce liens and otherwise violate the rules of the club while simultaneously insisting that they are "an association".
10. As a result of these undisputed transgressions, our property is taking a terrible hit . Members and non-members will suffer liens, threats of liens and constant harrassment by the boards if this mess is not resolved by all of us acting together...in good faith to get back to a responsible board of directors with very limited powers. I invite you all to think this through, and to let the board know what you think about it.
Dorothy
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2007 12:09 pm |
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R: You have been around long enough to know that every neighbor hood in the country is the same! Some people consider it UGLY to attack, threaten and call volunteer neighbors thieves!
Dreamland and it's facilities are almost 50 years old. A group of volunteers approached the residents and the residents approved mandatory membership!
A group of volunteers objected and formed a band of dissidents. Things have been heated since!
Beauty is in the eye of the happy! Ugly is in the eye of the unhappy!
Reminds me of the 2000 national elections. The losers claiming foul and splitting the country! We could go wild on that scenerio!
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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HOUNDDOG IS RIGHT, WE LIVE IN A REALLY UGLY PLACE ! THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT WORTH THE FIGHT IS THE ONCE IN A WHILE NICE PERSON THAT COMES INTO OUR LIVES FROM THE vILLA. WE HAVE MET SOME REALLY GOOD PEOPLE AND THAT TENDS TO OFFSET THE NASTY, UGLY, GOOFY ONES THAT ARE TRYING TO RUN OUR LIVES AND PROPERTIES. IT IS A FORM OF COMMUNISM FOR SURE AND EVERYONE HAS TO REMAIN VIGIL AND FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS THAT THE CONSTITUTION GIVES US.
HAVE A NICE DAY BABEL AND BUDDIES
R
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2007 11:20 am |
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| Dear Hound: Perk up buddy, we're winning!!! Dorothy.
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hounddawg
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Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2007 05:16 am |
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THATS WHY PEOPLE WITH SENSE AND KNOWLEDGE GOT OUT OF THAT DUMP A COUPLE YEARS AGO. YOU CAN'T HAVE VISITORS, YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE WEED GROWING, YOUR RV IS IN YOUR BACKYARD BUT IT BOTHERS YOUR NEIGHBOR. FACE IT YOU LIVE IN A PLACE OF COMMUNISM, THAT HOUSE YOU CALL YOURS AIN'T........ IT BELONGS TO THE DLV CLUB.
Last edited on Sun Aug 5th, 2007 07:15 am by
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 10:17 pm |
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Beep Beep:
R: I am out of town so I didn't recieve a copy of the Independent, big words don't give me a problem, but people who build themselves up by degrading others do! Feel better now?
Beep Beeep
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DreamlandMan
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Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 02:07 pm |
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Last edited on Wed Sep 19th, 2007 10:26 am by DreamlandMan
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 01:47 pm |
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SO DID YOU READ THE FRONT PAGE OF THE INDEPENDANT YESTERDAY ? THANKS TO THE EDITOR FOR HIS REPORTING THE CURRENT SITUATION IN THE COURT CASES. HOPE BABEL ON AND ON READ IT, OF COURSE IT TAKES HIM A LONG TIME TO LOOK UP THE BIG WORDS IN THE DICTIONARY.
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 12:25 pm |
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R: Bable doesn't have a "Bunch"! I'm just a person that responds to your postings so there is no need to throw every one that questions your entries & motives into a " Bunch"!
"Ren" is in a group all by it's self!
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 04:34 pm |
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HEHEHHEH
ISN'T IT FUN TO FLUSH OUT THE KNOT HEADS ? WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE A BOG LAUGH WHEN WE READ THE LOW LIFE JUNK THE LAST FEW POSTINGS HAVE BEEN. CAVE MEN, NO VOCABULARY, WHEN YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING WORTH READING , WELL HECK PEA PICKERS, JUST SWEAR AND CURSE. THAT ABOUT SAYS IS ALL. ? BABEL AND HIS BUNCH ARE PATHETIC FOR SURE. THEY LAY LIKE WAITING RATTLE SNAKES UNTIL SOMEONE POSTS SOMETHING AND THEN , POW, THEY JUMP ON IT LIKE GANGBUSTERS. PATHETIC. NOT AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT AMOUNG THE WHOLE BUNCH. HEY EVER HEARD OF FREEDOM THE THE PRESS. ? LIVE WITH IT.
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 12:58 pm |
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ren: I have gave it a rest for about a month, as far as the "bable" title goes, you have approached the lead!
beep beeep
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Renegade
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Posted: Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 01:30 am |
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Hey Babel head- you need to give it a rest too. Over the years I'm sure everybody thats read this pathetic blog, has heard enough from both sides. Read the Damn headline for the forum, It says East Mesa public issues. Key words here "east Mesa". It Don 't say anything about DLV's exclusive sorry ass Forum...... You don't own the blog. It would be nice to read something other than DLV's Bullshit problems.
Hey "R" SEE I DON'T JUST PICK ON YOU,
I'M AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY BUTT HEAD.
Y'ALL NEED TO SHUT UP FOR A WHILE........
HEY BABEL- BEEP BEEP YOUR ASS
Last edited on Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 01:33 am by
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 11:03 pm |
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beep beeep :::::
readers of dreamland articles, go back over the years of blog history. it is the volunteers in the community that have been attacked by the dissidents, called names! all I do is respond to their deciet and attacks and they say I bable. if you volunteer in the community they say you steal and rob the poor and the sick. go back the last year and see for your self! of course there is some crude and rude people on both sides, that is one reason it is quite the lawyer for the Concerned Citizens suggested they lay low. if they lay low there is nothing to for bable to resond to so readers get both sides of the story !
beep beep
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 03:10 am |
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| Dear R. We've been at this for some time, haven't we? Maybe a rest is in order, but have you noticed that those to whom we address a question respond only with vitriol and personal attacks? It's like the old saw about lawyers. "If you have the law and the facts on your side, argue the law. If not, pass the buck, send copies, and drown the court in BS." Thank God, the facts and law have been with us. Dorothy
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 01:48 pm |
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REN
CUTE, REAL CUTE, HAVE A NICE DAY BUTT HEAD
R
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Renegade
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 12:49 pm |
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| R- The crap you write over and over shows you pretty much have an I.Q. of neg. 99.7. I could give Rat's ass about your pathetic club. Like I said it's still a free country, you can continue going on and on like an ignorant moron. I don't know this Babel person, but as far as Bab-ling on and on about absolutely nothing, you hold that title. Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 12:57 pm by
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 12:26 am |
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Ren,
well eveyone knows your mentality now , so why even comment on it. Your dislike of me means very little or nothing at all in my life so slug on all you like. The truth will prevail and if you are on the side with the Club and Babel , which I believe you are, then you better be ready for it when it comes down on you. And you all will try to blame us. No way, the Club started this mandatory membership mess and they will have to answer for it.
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:08 pm |
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Renegade wrote: MS. D- I suppose cursing is not necessary but neither is R's carrying on and on. This fool talks about Babel going on and on. What the hell does he do? No thanks to Bush this is so far, still a free country, and "R" can go on and on about nothing, Day after day. Month after month. Year after year. By the same token, I can cuss all I want and exercise my freedom of speech too. The difference between me and "R" is I will only say it once. By the way, does R stand for RETARD, Repeat,Ridicules, or do we just pick one??????????? Have a nice day........ No one is denying your right to express yourself Ren, but I would like to know whether you have an opinion re: expulsion of those who express disagreement with the Board? there are only two, and we only have 3 minutes per meeting once a month to ask questions. Do you never wonder what rights member's have left? This board now has 42 cases in the Superior Court. Our dues are now supporting the liening of DV property, and payment of attorney's fees to harrass forced members with threats and demands for money to which most of us believe the club have no legal right. You've expressed only your personal opinion of your personal dislike for R.
Does that really matter? Dorothy
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Renegade
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:25 am |
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| MS. D- I suppose cursing is not necessary but neither is R's carrying on and on. This fool talks about Babel going on and on. What the hell does he do? No thanks to Bush this is so far, still a free country, and "R" can go on and on about nothing, Day after day. Month after month. Year after year. By the same token, I can cuss all I want and exercise my freedom of speech too. The difference between me and "R" is I will only say it once. By the way, does R stand for RETARD, Repeat,Ridicules, or do we just pick one??????????? Have a nice day........
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 10:49 am |
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Renegade wrote:
Thank, who-ever OR what-ever. It kept you quiet, EVEN IF IT WAS JUST A LITTLE WHILE. I Guess Good things don't last forever.......... GIVE IT A GOD DAMN REST. Dorothy's still here...just busy. Please, Renegade cursing isn't really necessary is it? We've had a successful summer so far...and can afford a respite.
I was interested to see that SVE's board of directors faced their responsibilities and produced the club documents that the members requested, and their President had the guts to announce that any contractor who demanded a "confidential agreement" would have to look elsewhere for a contract.
I applaud Ms. Chumley's courage and her public demonstration of respect for the members and the law....despite the best efforts of the board's attorney to make certain demands on member viewing and copying their documents, she insisted that all members rights under the law be observed.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a Ms. Chumley step forward? I can hardly wait to to hear them defend expelling Vicki and I for expressing our displeasure with their high-handed disregard of member's rights. Dorothy
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Renegade
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 08:18 am |
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| Thank, who-ever OR what-ever. It kept you quiet, EVEN IF IT WAS JUST A LITTLE WHILE. I Guess Good things don't last forever.......... GIVE IT A GOD DAMN REST. Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 08:49 am by
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 01:45 pm |
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It has been most interesting to watch the past few weeks, the blog has almost stopped talking about Nightmare Villa. It is not that we can't talk about it, but the Judge asked us to voluntarily refrain from trying the cases in the media. So we did. Good old Babel on and on has no other reason but to hammer us ? Guess we did stimulate him in some way.
The 30 or so cases in the court against the Club trying to force mandatory membership on us all is going foreward at legal speed. Anyone can follow it on the internet and Maricopa Superior Court website. If you haven't gone there it might enlighten you. Type in Dreamland Villa in the Case History search and read what comes up. Until then are you reading about all the HOA stuff in the paper? It is amazing that folks are puttting up with the rule of the HOA's.
R&C
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DreamlandMan
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 07:16 pm |
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East Valley Tribune Editorial January 13, 2007
The best way to repair fractious retirement haven would be a return to voluntary dues payment
The singer Tom Waits once wrote in a song about a dying love affair that “you can’t unring a bell.” Trying to unravel the legal morass that has enveloped Dreamland Villa may be just as difficult, but to us it appears to be the only way to resolve the discord that has cast a cloud over one of the East Valley’s oldest retirement communities.
This 3,000-home development, located on a county island surrounded by east Mesa, was built 45 years ago, before homeowners associations were common in single-family neighborhoods. For decades its clubhouse, wood shop and other amenities were paid for on an elective basis: if residents wanted to use these amenities, they could join the club and pay an annual fee to help with the upkeep.
Today, it can be difficult to buy a home that is not attached to an HOA. But the burdens and benefits of HOAs are well-known and explained, or at least mentioned, up front; most homeowners, unhappy as they may be with their HOAs at times, knew the risks.
But adding en masse to the deed restrictions of an already-occupied subdivision is something that should be done very carefully, and the indications are that, for whatever reason, it wasn’t in Dreamland Villa.
Proponents of mandatory membership, contending everyone should help maintain facilities that added to their property value whether or not they used them, collected signatures from at least half the homeowners in each section. But a sizeable number claim they were never told about the mandatory fees.
In 2004, a vote by those currently belonging to the club was taken, and former members who had stopped paying their dues were not allowed to participate. The one lawsuit filed to question this vote was dismissed on a legal technicality.
As Jason Massad reported in Sunday’s Tribune, 39 homeowners have received summonses for nonpayment of the $92 annual fee, which with penalties and legal fees has in some cases turned into more than $700 in debt on their homes. This could lead to liens or foreclosures.
The board members who started this process appear to have had the good intention of ensuring the community’s assets were maintained long into the future, and possibly giving them more teeth to enforce the age restriction.
But there appear to be enough clouds over the way the situation was handled that the best course of action at this point would be to return to the voluntary membership model that worked reasonably well for four decades, consistently keep nonmembers out of the club haunts, and, if necessary, attempt to bring in mandatory membership with a more transparent process.
Opinions expressed in the editorials, labeled OUR VIEW, are those of the editorial board and the publisher. All other opinions are those of the authors or artists.
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Fri Jun 29th, 2007 01:29 pm |
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zeppiz: you stated:: by the way one letter was post marked in late feb. of this year which made her late right off the bat, nice tactic...
The post office applies post marks, not the club. So the letter must have been sent late Feb.
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zeppiv
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 05:29 pm |
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My mom recieved a collection notice from the "CLUB" telling her to pay her dues, which she was never a member of, while living there for ten years. Now their bugging her, and also saying she owes late fees, in which by the way one letter was post marked in late feb. of this year which made her late right off the bat, nice tactic...
seeking advice, smells like a scam to me, she pays HOA, DOES NOT CARE FOR JOINING A CLUB.......and person she talked to was rude
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2007 02:27 pm |
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BABEL ON AND ON AND ON AND ON
YOU ARE CONFUSED? GEE, NOW THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT. OH, EXCUSE ME, I USED THE CONCERNED WORD. SEEMS LIKE YOU GUYS HATE THAT WORD, TOUGH NUGGIES. WE ARE HERE AND WE ARE CONCERNED, NOT ABOUT YOUR MINDLESS RAMBELINGS, BUT ABOUT A NON PROFIT SOCIAL CLUB THAT KEEPS TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE INTO MEMBERSHIP AND ATTACHES VILE DOCUMENTS TO OUR PROPERTY. NOW , THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT AND BABEL, YOU CAN'T JUSTIFY THAT, PERIOD.
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 08:41 pm |
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Dorothy7::: The club has no interest in your property, their interest is that until the issue is changed the residents in the mandatory membership zones are obligated to pay their dues! As the members are obligated to pay their dues the Club Board is obligated to follow the law on collecting the dues, The Board has no choice, they don't pick and choose as you claim!
It amazes me that you demand they obey only the laws that you want them to!
You demand they go by the rules when the expelled you from the club, but they don't have to follow procedure in collecting dues!
Sure is confusing!
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 02:43 pm |
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Good Stuff Dorothy, only one problem, we keep expecting Bable on and on and on to be able to read and comprehend what we write. He has only one thought process, " happy in Nightmare Villa" his junk about paying our fair share really is crazy. Why should we pay for his club and pot lucks? Why do they keep forcing mandatory membership on the community as if they had a legal contract? See what I mean, now watch Bable come back on this one about buying a home and playing bingo. What nonsense!
R
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sat Jun 16th, 2007 02:32 pm |
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alasbabylon wrote: Just as when you purchase a home, there is a method to enforcing the pay back of the funds. Dozens of pages to explain the collecting procedure!
Just as when you purchase a car, there is a method to enforce the pay back of the loan. A page or two explaining what happens if you fail to pay!
When the mandatory membership passed, part of the legal responsiblitlty of the Club was to have a method of collecting the dues! They couldn't design or make up these methods, they had to obey local, state and federal laws.
The differance between the old CC&R's and the revised ones is the collection method had to be included.
Residents of the community need to have a method of controling the rules and regulations of said community! Residents elect the board members from resident nominated members! They are volunteers, have limited terms & power.
Just as with us, next week they may have ailments, emergancies or other reason to need to resign.
They work hard for their community and take a lot of abuse from their neighbors associated with the Concerned Citizens and Dreamlandgarbageman!
Whether you agree with the issue or not, the hatred and abuse is toally uncalled for!
For every dissident there is propably 98.7 happy and content resident! Dorothy responds: You mean you believe that DVCC has a financial interest in our individual property? Did they sign our sales agreements? The bank, and the seller did.
So, as I have often tried to explain to you, this is a social club. It has no legal financial interest or claim on our property. This "mandatory membership" fiasco is scam and a fraud. If the club and its voluntary "happy minions" had been honest, they would have mailed out copies of the documents that they were asking people to approve.
They did not do so. They kept the terms of that agreement secret.
If the club had been honest, it would have admitted that it was trying to reorganize all of DV into an HOA.
They chose not to do so.
They lied when asked if they were in fact trying to organize an HOA. Repeatedly assuring DV owners that DVCC would never lien DV property...foreclose or evict owners...etc. etc.
Obviously, they lied again.
The board has approved the filing of 40 liens on their neighbors...and has currently 42 pending legal challenges in the court.
Why would anyone volunteer to lien their neighbors...and to foreclose on their neighbors....and ultimately to create another tragedy like Mr. Nelms, who shot himself when he discovered that his home had been sold at sheriff's auction and that he would be evicted in 3 weeks.
Don't tell me that it's the law making them do it. They have repeatedly assured us all that all these actions were "at the discretion of the board". Were they lying again? HMMMMM? Dorothy7
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DreamlandMan
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 02:40 pm |
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Last edited on Wed Sep 19th, 2007 10:28 am by DreamlandMan
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 01:49 pm |
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Just as when you purchase a home, there is a method to enforcing the pay back of the funds. Dozens of pages to explain the collecting procedure!
Just as when you purchase a car, there is a method to enforce the pay back of the loan. A page or two explaining what happens if you fail to pay!
When the mandatory membership passed, part of the legal responsiblitlty of the Club was to have a method of collecting the dues! They couldn't design or make up these methods, they had to obey local, state and federal laws.
The differance between the old CC&R's and the revised ones is the collection method had to be included.
Residents of the community need to have a method of controling the rules and regulations of said community! Residents elect the board members from resident nominated members! They are volunteers, have limited terms & power.
Just as with us, next week they may have ailments, emergancies or other reason to need to resign.
They work hard for their community and take a lot of abuse from their neighbors associated with the Concerned Citizens and Dreamlandgarbageman!
Whether you agree with the issue or not, the hatred and abuse is toally uncalled for!
For every dissident there is propably 98.7 happy and content resident!
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DreamlandMan
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Posted: Thu Jun 14th, 2007 05:06 am |
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Last edited on Wed Sep 19th, 2007 10:29 am by DreamlandMan
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Ron & Cathy Ehninger
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 11:54 pm |
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BABEL ON AND ON AND ON
YOU WOULDN'T KNOW AN ORGINAL THOUGHT IF IT WALKED UP AND HIT YOU IN THE NOSE. BUT ON YOU BABLE, ON AND ON AND ON AND TRY AS YOU MIGHT, I DOUBT YOU HAVE CONVINCED ONE SOUL OF YOUR CRUSADE TO RIP THE ELDERLY OFF SO YOU CAN HAVE YOUR SING A LONGS AND BINGO
PARTY ON DUDES
R
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alasbabylon
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 01:41 pm |
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Always a dislaimer:::: I wonder why?
Opinions expressed in the editorials, labeled OUR VIEW, are those of the editorial board and the publisher. All other opinions are those of the authors or artists.
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