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Lefty
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 09:41 pm |
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Irishkid3-
And your point regarding the topic is???????
You established that you are a crusty old ex-jar head and your daughters are successful in their careers. Great, now lets get back to the topic subject.
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:57 pm |
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| I am sorry that I 'wound up your clock'...You need to take a breath...both of my daughters make their living in the 'computer/real estate Market...& they do 'rather' well...if it happens to be any of your business...my eldest Daughter is Senior Project Manager of a Multi-National Corporation, based in Phoenix, the youngest is a Corporate Attorney, for several, fairly large corporations, in the valley...& happens to be married to the guy that is in charge of managing most of the Indian 'endeavors' in the valley...just in case you are interested...ct(or if you think it is any of your business)ct
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:38 pm |
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I am going to reply to this in the simplest 'English' that I can...maybe 'someone' will understand...1-I assume that 4400 homes is a correct figure,... 2-I assume that no expansion has been made since to the CC ...3-That most of the residents of this 'neighborhood'...are elderly 'women'(after all they outlive men...by quite a few years)...4-that most of the 'new' residents...are 'baby-boomers...therefore...'couples'(I didn't make up that name...you did!'...)wife & HUSBAND! They want to 'play together'...sounds natural to me...but I lost my wife in the 80's...so I am probably no longer an 'expert'...
But I am an 'experenced' Senior Citisen...so listen up! ...(sorry the Marine Corps showed thru there for a bit ), the eldest of 12 kids(10 boys/2 ladies)...(side note...lost one brother...somewhat infamous...his daughter married Kurt Warner, just shortly before he & his wife's death by a 'tornado' in Arkansas, where they had just built their 'retirement' home...Mountain View, Ark)...
Back to the subject @ hand ...When you grew up on a farm, born during the depression, etc...you are 'used' to making decisions...and not following the 'herd'...the 'herd is good for the 'herd'...they are younger, do not think of us, 'the ELDERS'...as knowing anything...at least about what they want...so they move into OUR areas, (70+++)and say, 'we are retired...we want what you have(something that some of us have worked several more years, than just being '65'...anyone remember the so-called the 'Depression'...I do...but then...(Guess, you can't please everyone...by the way, my 'almost' 100 yr old mother...is on the internet every day...to ALL of her 12 kids(10 boys[-1]), & 2 girls)...{Dad left us a few years ago...}...Hope YOU'ALL have a GREAT DAY!!!...ct
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 12:18 am |
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kswane wrote: As the author of the letter in question, I am tempted just to "rest my case" to your reply. However, I can accept "mistaken assumptions", after all, we disagree, but I will not accept your accusation of "false claims". You have chosen the wrong words.
Why DID you buy here? Why do you stay here?
Most of us consider the purchase of a home to be a major decision and we check out the benefits. If you consider the DVCC facilities to be outdated, then you must also consider your home and neighborhood to be "outdated". Better call your realtor ASAP! Hey, Las Sendas is newer!
I assume that you are my elder as it is unlikely that a person can become so unhappy in only 55 or 60 years, and I offer you that respect, but I believe that it would be YOUR responsibility to prove to us that $100.00 per year for the amenities involved would not be considered by the vast majority ( I know you hate that word ) to represent a positive value to your "out-dated" home in your "out-dated" neighborhood. Do we need to take a vote?
Accuse me of "false" claims in person or do not accuse me. And, don't ever call me "comrade". I somehow missed this response. I will remind you that stating a premise and leaping to an unsubstantiated conclusion is evidence of a less than clear understanding of the issues you are attempting address.
For example, there is no evidence that anyone who considered the clubhouses "outdated" would ipso facto consider his home "outdated".
Furthermore, your quoting the dues as $100.00 per year, ignores the fact that in 60% of all households in DV, have two owners...and $200.00 per year to pay.
It also ignores the indisputable fact that a great many of DV owners are on small fixed incomes and cannot pay that assessment...no matter their view of the fairness, or unfairness of the amount.
Furthermore, it is patently unreasonable to demand that those do not or cannot use those facilities pay for those who can and do.
I sat in a regular Board meeting this past year when the fellow who chairs the "foregiveness" committee (as if not being able to pay dues to this goofy club is somehow evidence of sin) rose and declared with tears in his eyes that they needed donations because there were so many applying for relief from the dues.
The use of the word "comrade", I assume, is to describe the political philosophy to which this club seems to cleave.
Most Americans believe that "Communal interests in private property is the basis of communist philosophy, not the American view. Thus, "comrade" seems to fit, based on the expressed view of the Board on several occasions.
That is to say, that they believe they have a right to claim an interest in the privately held property of owners, whether or not the owner has agreed to relinquish it.
It is apparent that they not only cleave to that view, they are willing to dispossess anyone who refuses to submit to their it. See? Dorothy7
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 12:52 am |
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| Avery, dear: Put the drink down now! You are obviously in no condition to respond coherently at this time. Rest, drink a cup of coffee...then reread my entry. Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2008 12:53 pm |
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Dorothy
You stated " Maryanne Glauner asked a very interesting question at the board meeting on the second TUESDAY of April. It seems that the reserve account has lost track of, or misplaced $100,000+."
What was the question? It appears to be an implication on your part, if the "account has lost track" of means anything. Any educated person that looks at the monthly published financial reports could see that some of it is absorbed into the club expenses and upkeep. As usual there will be an answer to her question at the next meeting. Most of it is still there, so you can sleep easy!
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Mon Apr 21st, 2008 10:27 am |
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averymatte wrote: Dorothy
You have to throw in " it's what you put in it." Always the slam because I am happy living here! Let me see, over 3000 dues paying members and that is including 4 or more sections that voluntarily pay dues. They don't live here to go to meetings they live here to enjoy the facilities with their friends and neighbors. Sorry that it irritates you to the extent you can't enjoy living here! Avery: I asked you a question...it had nothing to do with your personal state of mind, about which I have no opinion...nor do I wish to involve myself.
If I were unhappy living here, I would live elsewhere. I have wonderful friends and neighbors, and family with whom I share my life, and enjoy their company.
Now, we have been discussing our views of the problems the club has created with its goofy attorney and hodge podge of an association.
It's my understanding that Judge Whitten has filed a Judgment allowing the club to lien property on April 9, 2008.
It seems to me, in reading only a part of the Judgment recorded on the Superior Court website, that he did not include attorney's fees, or interest on arrearages, and I have heard that those owners who are being sued by the club are in the process of filing an appeal.
It was my intention to discuss the possibilities of settling this matter before another couple of hundred thousand dollars are spent on defending an appeal.
Maryanne Glauner asked a very interesting question at the board meeting on the second TUESDAY of April. It seems that the reserve account has lost track of, or misplaced $100,000+.
No one understands better than I the problems of a rotating board of volunteers without any training in budgeting...I left the club over just such carelessness. At that time, the Board routinely allocated moneys that had not been approved in the budget adopted by members. As long as it was a voluntary club, it was my opinion that the members could demand that the board stop doing it, or not...I just did not want to be involved.
But now, we are faced with a real, and growing crisis that effects all owners in the Villa that needs to be addressed by owners acting in good faith and those on the board who do not have their opinions set in concrete to the point that they are willing to destroy the club to save it.
Appeals are very costly for both sides. The Judges have been unwilling to award attorney's fees to either side, and will most likely continue to do so. Once the club filed 40 lawsuits against owners, the owners were left with few options.
Also, I have reviewed the ballots, proxies and signatures cast as votes, (all in favor) that Vicki was able to force the club to turn over), and heard the number of signatures she obtained from her neighbors in Section 9, I believe that the Court will have no choice but to find for the owners on appeal. Her canvas I understand, lasted only three days...or a week.
It is my belief that the club did not act lawfully and that now the proof is in the hands of those who can present it to the Court.
What I want to know is whether anyone of the tiny fraction of owners that sits over at the club houses is going to try to resolve this, or are they going to buy their lawyer another Mercedes while the club goes broke?
Think about it. Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 01:18 am |
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Dorothy
You have to throw in " it's what you put in it." Always the slam because I am happy living here! Let me see, over 3000 dues paying members and that is including 4 or more sections that voluntarily pay dues. They don't live here to go to meetings they live here to enjoy the facilities with their friends and neighbors. Sorry that it irritates you to the extent you can't enjoy living here!
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sat Apr 19th, 2008 04:09 am |
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Avery: It's not the tea or coffee that gets to you, it's what you put in it. Still, your question "what happened after that?" makes no sense...after what? You mean between 1961 and 1974, or between '61 and 2004...the 43 years we got by without a lawyer, and without 40 lawsuits and thousands lost in attempting to lien the property of owners?
Well, we all got along...those who had no interesting in being "excited by the club" and those who did...no problems...just old folks bee bopping along doing their lives as they saw fit...without the threatening, defamation, and attempts to arrest those who insist on exercising their rights.
You are attempting to force 4,000 owners to pay for the "excitement" of 400...on a really good day for a meeting. Then you wonder why you're so detested by those you're abusing. Dorothy7Last edited on Sat Apr 19th, 2008 04:09 am by Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 01:56 pm |
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Dorothy
Your " put down what you are drinking" is real mature! I could respond with "put out what you are smoking" when you write your pages of response! I drink coffee and iced tea thank you! I assume you smoke only legally taxed tobacco products?
What you wrote was " There are so many duplicate services offered by the Senior Center, and City owned facilities that are newer and better kept nearby, and our facilities are so limited in the number they can serve, that we would be better off just getting rid of both."
One day you are saying no one (or very few do) uses the facilities, the next you are saying they are limited on the number thay can serve. So lets get rid of them!
Residents love being able to walk to or ride their bikes to the daily activites! Some can actually walk across the street to join in the excitement of the day! What a great place to live!
You stated
Farnsworth's rentals and other non owners comprised over 1,000 of the club's members when I was on the Board.
Our facilities would not serve that many people, let alone 4,400 owners. Try to think in coherent progressions...it helps. Dorothy7
With that same logic the City of Mesa ( population over 500K ) would never had built a Center that seats less than 1K, Glendale would have never built a Stadium seating less than 100K. Great that you aren't on the planning committes of these cities.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 02:13 am |
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averymatte wrote: Dorothy
You are driving the tractor! I just respond to your crooked furrows. Your logic is the county and or city offer facilities so every RV Park, Modular Home Park, Senior Retirement Community, Family Housing Community should close their facilities!
It is what you are leaving out that leads people astray!
You wrote " As late as 1974 the developer did not include any obligation to a club, or corporation, or maintenance of any common property.
I think now, we can move on to a good faith examination of the problems we now have. "
What happened after that? Avery dear, please set down what you're drinking and read what I have written before making bizarre off the wall, meaningless comments that do not lend themselves to the topic under discussion.
I certainly did not say that all associations in all developments should be or could be replaced by nearby public facilities...The majority of associations and the common property are built by the developer to provide services to the owners, and are included in the Declarations as a financial obligation of the owners.
When the clubhouses were built, the owner who voluntarily joined the club paid for their maintenance, and that was adequate for 40 years.
Farnsworth's rentals and other non owners comprised over 1,000 of the club's members when I was on the Board.
Our facilities would not serve that many people, let alone 4,400 owners. Try to think in coherent progressions...it helps. Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:48 pm |
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Dorothy
You are driving the tractor! I just respond to your crooked furrows. Your logic is the county and or city offer facilities so every RV Park, Modular Home Park, Senior Retirement Community, Family Housing Community should close their facilities!
It is what you are leaving out that leads people astray!
You wrote " As late as 1974 the developer did not include any obligation to a club, or corporation, or maintenance of any common property.
I think now, we can move on to a good faith examination of the problems we now have. "
What happened after that?
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:09 pm |
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Avery: I sense now that we are plowing the same furrow that has been plowed over and over...one judge out of three has found in a Minute Entry that he believed that SADR was filed legally...a Judgment has yet to be entered.
I anticipate that Judge Whitten will probably sign a favorable Judgment at some point for the club...
Of course, as the case wore on, and on, thanks to Maxwell's insistance on filing Motions on settled matters, it is possible that he may modify his opinion in the Minute Entries, or reverse his opinion and file a Judgment in favor of the homeowners.
Whichever way this Judge decides, the issue is not settled...we simply move on to a higher stakes game.
Every Appeals Court ruling I can find in other states, no matter Maxwell's interpretation of cases that do not have the same cause of action, has ruled for the homeowner's rights to rely on the terms of his original sales agreement, and for their rights to have an opportunity to vote, or sign any document changing that original agreement in whole, or in part.
The case you make for the homeowners understanding of their Original Declaration is dead on.
DV had no CC&Rs, and to characterize the covenants in the original agreement as CC&Rs is very misleading. These Lots were sold as vacant lots, the Declaration merely describes the building restrictions on the land.
There is no reference to a club, corporation, or any common property described for which any Lot owner would have a financial obligation.
This would have had to include, in all the legitimate HOAs I've seen, a Horizontal Property Regime, in which the percentage of ownership of the "common property" is assigned to each Lot.
Again, there is nothing of that nature attached to DV property. As late as 1974 the developer did not include any obligation to a club, or corporation, or maintenance of any common property.
I think now, we can move on to a good faith examination of the problems we now have.
The club authorized the filing of 40 lawsuits in only four of the Sections on December 13, 2006. At that time only 7 of 18 Sections were considered to be mandatory by the club, and as far as I can determine at this time, the victims resided in only 4 of the 7 Sections.
At the same rate of resistance in the future, that would require the filing of 180 lawsuits every December 13, and refiling every three years, so that the cumulative total would bankrupt the club, and DV property would become virtually unsaleable. Buyers will not be enthused about investing in property that is in a continual legal war to maintain clear title to their older homes.
The club, acting on the advice of an attorney, is now cash poor and trying to keep their bills paid by charging the users of the facilities an additional fee. This idea, so long in coming, flew like a lead balloon.
As long as the club persists in this nonsense, special assessments will have to be levied to keep paying their attorney, then an easy payment plan will follow, and finally a monthly fee to live in a 50 year old home, add the costs of a property manager, all without any benefit whatsoever to the owners.
There is not a shred of evidence that the club houses add a single dollar to the value of our property.
Now, the question comes...to my mind, at least. Why would the County continue to maintain the surface streets in this development if we're an HOA? What benefit does the county receive by doing so?
The club has rejected the notion of annexation...(for reasons that are ill defined at this point)...so, then who is responsible?
I have sat in on discussions by the past boards in which all these matters were discussed as logical outcomes of becoming an HOA.
Finally, let me take note here that one of the most reasonable proposals seemed to me to be to consider the sale of Read Hall, Library etc., and to use the proceeds to acquire the golf course from Ross Farnsworth.
I have also participated in serious discussions with board members and realtors regarding the sale of both club houses and concentrate on improving the club house that now serves the golf course.
There are so many duplicate services offered by the Senior Center, and City owned facilities that are newer and better kept nearby, and our facilities are so limited in the number they can serve, that we would be better off just getting rid of both.
Or, the club can simply heap impossible demands on the owners until we become a overwhelmed with costs to owners for services the club cannot render.
Think about it. Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 01:43 pm |
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Dorothy
Your statement " Dear Avery: If the board had distributed the SADR, (aka The Second Amended Declaration, aka The New CC&Rs) to the owners of Dreamland property and invited them to read and sign it if they wished to approve it, I would have no problem with them. They did not even publish the terms in their bulletin The Citizen.
Says so much that many of Dreamland residents didn't even know, even R & C didn't! You mentioned New CC&Rs. Many people didn't realize that there were existing CC&Rs when they moved in!
The "Second Amended Declaration, aka The New CC&Rs" as you said it added the Mandatory membership part which more than doubled the size of the package because of the legal methodology of enforcing the collection of dues.
To read it and understand it is difficult, similiar to your home owners, auto and life insurance policies! The agents explain them in everyday terms when they are selling them. Then there is always the dsclaimer when the policy arrives.
Since all "We" outside of the event have to go by is the dicision of the court. And the court sided with the club on the validty of the dues collecting in the mandatory sections, we have to believe it was legal.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 05:05 am |
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Dear Avery: If the board had distributed the SADR, (aka The Second Amended Declaration, aka The New CC&Rs) to the owners of Dreamland property and invited them to read and sign it if they wished to approve it, I would have no problem with them. They did not even publish the terms in their bulletin The Citizen.
They allowed their attorney to hide the ballots, proxies and signatures counted as votes at the pivotal January 13, 2004 meeting for over 3 years. If they believed that the count was accurate, and the meeting conducted by the rules, why would they not have simply made copies available to any member who asked for them?
You cannot really believe that the majority of owners would voluntarily agree to risk their property in order to pay for amenities that so few ever use?
The board did not. That is why they chose to deceive and to to cheat on the vote count, and to fail to submit the amendments to a vote at the February elections so that everyone could vote on them...the amendments failed.
If the recitation of the facts that are supported by both the testimony of witnesses in affidavit, and reported in the past copies of the bulletin...is a vendetta...then, so be it.
Good night .
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averymatte
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 02:01 pm |
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Dorothy
You Spouted! NO, AVERY, THE OWNER'S DID NOT HAVE THE FINAL, PRELIMINARY, OR INTERMEDIATE DECISION.
The owner residents had the choice and made the final decision! Whether the OWNER was a Owner CLUB MEMBER, a Owner BOARD MEMBER or a Owner RESIDENT, THEY are ALL OWNERS!
It is not Owner Board Members against owners, it is Owner Board Members elected by Owner members, volunteering to do a difficult job protecting the community property!
It is not Owner Club Members against owners, it is owners that belong to the Owner Club that enjoy living in a retirement community and are willing to volunteer if they are able to keep this a great place to live!
The accusations the dissident are making is that the OWNERS that wanted all residents to share in the cost of the ammendties that make Dreamland Villa the great place to live is, that they wanted to destroy their own property values, assess themsleves and put liens on their own property! They are all owners and are subject to the same rules.
But the accusations make a great story if you want to frightened the ill and elderly.
You for some reason never mention the Limitations of the Owner Boards Power! It would foil your vendetta!
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 01:14 pm |
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Dear Avery:
NO, AVERY, THE OWNER'S DID NOT HAVE THE FINAL, PRELIMINARY, OR INTERMEDIATE DECISION.
AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY INFORMED YOU, BASED ON THE PROVABLE FACTS, A MAJORITY OF OWNERS DID NOT VOTE TO APPROVE THE SECOND AMENDED DECLARATION OF RESTRICTIONS, NOR TO LIEN DV PROPERTY, NOR TO ALLOW THE BOARD TO ASSESS THEM ANY AMOUNT THE BOARD WISHES, WITHOUT MEMBER'S APPROVAL....
BECAUSE
THE BOARD DID NOT MAIL OUT, PUBLISH OR DISTRIBUTE COPIES OF THE TERMS OF THE SECOND AMENDED DECLARATION OF RESTRICTIONS, NOR DID THEY PUBLISH THE FACT THAT THE SIGNATURE OF THE OWNERS WOULD ALLOW THE CLUB TO ATTACH THAT 17 PAGES OF TERMS ALLOWING THE BOARD TO TO LEVY PENALTIES, INTEREST, LIEN YOUR PROPERTY, FORECLOSE ON YOUR PROPERTY, AND SELL IT AT AUCTION....OR ATTACH 17 PAGES OF NEW COVENANTS TO YOUR DEED!
NOR DID THEY EVER STATE THAT THE SIGNATURE THEY SOUGHT WOULD RESULT IN REORGANIZING ALL OF DREAMLAND VILLA INTO AN HOA!
THE DISPUTE ARISES THEREIN. IT WILL PERSIST ON THOSE GROUNDS, AND WILL ULTIMATELY PREVAIL ON THOSE GROUNDS...
A FRAUD, IS A FRAUD, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE A FRAUD!
ERGO, DEAR AVERY, YOU FANCIFUL DELUSIONS NOTWITHSTANDING, YOU ARE LOST, IN A SEA OF MISINFORMATION, AND YOUR CONCLUSIONS BASED ON A FAULTY ASSUMPTION.
Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 01:27 pm |
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Dorothy Wrote
I agreed when I was on the Board that the overwhelming majority of owners did not participate in club activities at all...then, when more than 500 showed up they were sent home...so maybe that's why? Hmmm? Dorothy?
and left out the FACT owners can't vote on Club issues.
FACT the owners had the final say ! And they showed that when annexation was mentioned and later when 59% of residents in the nonmadatory sections joined the Club in 2009!
You mentioned weeds, on the news last night the cost of fighting weeds in the State is up 1/3 because of the wet winter. Not just Dreamlnad Villa!
You mentioned property value as if it is The Boards fault. Check the national economy and property values! If you check the Citizen you can check how many homes sales are recorded! It is in the income section of the financial report.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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averymatte wrote: Dorothy
I find mistakes in all of your postings so why are you so excited when a typo appears in the Citizen? As a minimally educated American I carried my 10lb Websters to my PC. Utopia... 1 any idealized place, state, or situation of perfection! A lot more than the "nowhere" you explained as the definition! And that from a minimally educated person!
I am sorry that all of the volunteers that maintain the community have an affect to improve the value of your peace of Utopia and all of this without your approval! But we have the right to do the same for our little corner of Dreamland Villa! Avery: Every word in the English language has a derivation...including Utopia. Even the Websters reminds you that it represents an unachievable state among any society of humans...thus, in reality, a dream that does not exist...or, nowhere on earth....so, look up the definition of "idealized". Okay? Finally, the "volunteers" have never, in the 10+ years I have lived here "improved" my property in anyway...if you're speaking about the board, they have in fact degraded the value of the entire development with their hanky-panky, and their
flagrant disregard of the facts.
Are you really unaware of the problems with selling DV property? Are you unable to recognize a devaluation on your property tax statement?
Think about it; are we better off now than during the 40 years we managed our own affairs and our own property? (I have weeds about 15" high that the county now refuses to cut, because our board insists they're an HOA.) I'm also paying for fire protection and emergency services that the City of Mesa offers and is paid for by the sales tax you're are now paying!
I'm still hopeful that the owners will rebel and dump this whole silly scheme before the club has to raise money to pay for an appeal..
In my opinion, filing 40 lawsuits against owners in DV was wildly irresponsible...particularly the board did so without member approval... Hiring an attorney with only 200 of 4,400 owners approving is even more irresponsible.
I agreed when I was on the Board that the overwhelming majority of owners did not participate in club activities at all...then, when more than 500 showed up they were sent home...so maybe that's why? Hmmm? Dorothy?
Last edited on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 10:51 pm by Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 02:27 pm |
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Dorothy
I find mistakes in all of your postings so why are you so excited when a typo appears in the Citizen? As a minimally educated American I carried my 10lb Websters to my PC. Utopia... 1 any idealized place, state, or situation of perfection! A lot more than the "nowhere" you explained as the definition! And that from a minimally educated person!
I am sorry that all of the volunteers that maintain the community have an affect to improve the value of your peace of Utopia and all of this without your approval! But we have the right to do the same for our little corner of Dreamland Villa!
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:32 pm |
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Dear Avery: You were sitting BEHIND me. The recorder is held in my hand in clear view of the board. The recorder was in purse during a conversation with Billie Taparro following a work session in which she had stated that "We should get rid of those tapes! They are being circulated to non-members!" When she approached me I reminded her that any destruction or hiding of club/corp records was a felony, she went off! Ivan Hill was sitting on the planter within two feet of where were standing, when I told her I had recorded the meeting, and the machine was still on. She responded that her comments were "off the cuff" and not a motion, and that if my statement was true, they would abide by the law.
The problem here, Avery dear, is that your choice is to "work" to improve MY share of this community without my consent...it is not my choice to live in the club's version of Utopia..(remember, the original meaning of Utopia, as described in the treatise of Sir Thomas Moore, was "nowhere", and most minimally educated Americans should know that! We have just finished a 50 year long running battle with a Russian version of Utopia...surely you remember that? Mainland China is still killing people for protesting having no right to property, no "God given" right to civil rights that the State cannot abridge.
This silly bunch of incompetent busy body's rights end at the beginning of my property line, and those of us who insist on that basic human right will, in the end prevail.
By the way, why did the Citizen's calender on the back page show the Board meeting on Monday at 9:00? Another OOOPS?
It seems that Mrs. Glauner and the Swimmers discovered the mistake in time to appear. Now that you know the facts, please feel free to ignore them as you always do. Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 04:19 am |
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Dorothy
You mentioned your trusty little recorder in your purse in one of your blog entries!
I have never seen a recorder ( must have been concealed) and have set behind you in meetings.
You wrote " You are living in a fool's Utopia, my friend. Wake up! Dorothy7"
I am living in the retirement community I chose to live in, working with my friends and neighbors and volunteering to use my talents to make it a better community! Utopia is correct, "fools Utopia" thats your choice of the way you are living! Your choice, Dear!
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 01:48 am |
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averymatte wrote: Dorothy
As usual you spout and spit out stories. 59% + of residents in voluntary sections paid for membership privleges! Sounds like Happy Residents to me!
Any member nominated is elligible to run for the board. You know that, so why state otherwise?
Can you imagine a neighbor hiding a recorder on their person in community meeting? And then being upset when the community objected. Talk about Big Brother tactics. Not being able to talk freely without being recorded.
Did you hear about the Badge Flashing incident! Strong Arm Tactics, Dorothy or a Joke?
The people will show up at General Meetings when they are unhappy, you know that from the annexation meeting! Dear Avery: I'll believe the 59% when the club allows members to access the documents and discovers how many of those "paying " are owners. My experience with this bunch requires that every claim they make be documented and the documents verified. I have never hidden my recorder...it is in full view either in my hand, (the small digital recorder that plugs into my computer to make a permanent record... or my larger and powerful recorder sitting on the chair in full view of the Board. And no, I am not bothered by anyone taping my comments at meetings and during coversations regarding the club's business and positions.
I have a tape of a Board Member telling me that I was about to be arrested for criminal trespass if I didn't leave. Within moments of that threat, the Board reconvened and admitted that I had a legal right to attend. (No attempt to arrest was ever made at that meeting where I represented an absent member.
You are living in a fool's Utopia, my friend. Wake up! Dorothy7
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averymatte
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Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 04:35 am |
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Dorothy
As usual you spout and spit out stories. 59% + of residents in voluntary sections paid for membership privleges! Sounds like Happy Residents to me!
Any member nominated is elligible to run for the board. You know that, so why state otherwise?
Can you imagine a neighbor hiding a recorder on their person in community meeting? And then being upset when the community objected. Talk about Big Brother tactics. Not being able to talk freely without being recorded.
Did you hear about the Badge Flashing incident! Strong Arm Tactics, Dorothy or a Joke?
The people will show up at General Meetings when they are unhappy, you know that from the annexation meeting!
All is well in the Villa and that keeps us trucking.
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 11:23 am |
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Dear Irish: It is my experience that there has to be something missing in the lives of those who will go over to Read Hall all day every day and hang out. Like you, I am too busy to get involved in such a silly waste of time and energy.
I moved down here to participate in the lives of my daughter and my grandchildren. I also care for my 97 year old mother, and she and I are baseball and basketball fans and we participate in supporting our teams...D-backs and Suns.
We also love opera, and love to cruise the art galleries. This is a great place for almost any activity in which you have an interest.
Dogs, and other animals are at the top of my list of obcessions...so I support the zoo. My family are farmers and ranchers, so we are involved in the State Fair, FFA, the 4H, and the Arizona National live-stock show.
My husband was a 30 year man in the Navy. I waited for years to have a permanent address...so, to say that I was not amused to discover that this silly damned bunch of unproductive busy bodies had claimed an interest in my home, is to understate the obvious.
P.S. John McCain and I are the same age...he's my guy in November, so am also doing my part to support him...and no, I won't be "ducking for cover" from the whining, sniping ants at my picnic of a life. ha Dorothy7
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:50 am |
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kswane wrote: Dear Dorothy, Irish Kid and friends,
Do you "duck for cover" from the sniper fire when you get your morning paper?
GESTAPO...DISPOSESS...ENHALE..."OWNED SHEEP"...DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR....those words do not belong in a rational conversation.
Walkers, wheelchairs and scooters? Do you need one? We have an absolutely fantastic community help center that can provide you with what you need.
When my parents moved here, they did not need these things. But they do today.
Do you have a problem with that? I don't. But I don't expect the community to assume full responsibilty for the care of my family. They are members by the way.
Things change and a real community will change as well.
I do hope that you have a happy, positive life, but you may need to change youur attitude.
This will be my final entry on this blog because you are not worthy of the electricity required to publish it.
Feel free to stop by anytime,
Kirk Swanson
750 N 58th St
Dreamland Villa
That's the infamous Hillary who, like the club is SO CONCERNED about their neighbor's lack of concern, incompetence, and ability to manage their own lives that they are willing to file 40 lawsuits threatening to take your property if you refuse to buckle under to their demands for financial support.....whether or not they receive any benefit from the club...
It's this insulting assumption that they know best how to manage your home and your life that is so infuriating.
Based on a recent attempt to canvass in Section 9, you will see that the club's support is tissue thin....despite their claims to the contrary. They can intimidate and bully and harass owners it seems...but they can't make them like it.
You are a newcomer Kirk, as am I by the standards of most of the owners here, and you will discover that once the club has used you for its immediate ends you will become the enemy the first time you question their schemes.
Can you imagine any legitimate organization expelling the only members with the guts to dissent, or even to question?
Can you imagine that in the United States of America that anyone can go down to the recorder's office without your knowledge or consent and claim controlling interest in your property?
Can you imagine a legitimate organization that will adjourn a meeting rather than have a member openly record that meeting?
Can you imagine that this club had a legal option and refused to use it?
I sat on the Mandatory Membership Committee.
We recommended that any changes to the Original Declaration be mailed to every effected homeowner, and that meetings be held to explain those changes, and that only those who chose to sign that agreement become mandatory members. This would have included the option to sign for every new owner as well.
None of these recommendations were followed for the obvious and stated reason that "you couldn't get these people to sign it."
I too, am becoming bored with the repetition...however, the deaths of my friends Pete, and Mary, and many, many others who fought to their last breaths keep me going.
They chose not to do so. I'll miss your contributions. Dorothy
P.S. Have you ever asked yourself why if a majority of owners were so happy with the club, they did not pay their dues as voluntary members?
They did not...we were losing members every year...the General Meeting in March FAILED to achieve a quorum of 100 members, and had to be adjourned. Normally about 35 people attend meetings.
Is it really possible that among the over 3,000 members, only 14 are ever illegible to run for the Board? Think, Kirk, before it's too late.
Last edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:59 am by Dorothy7
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 05:10 am |
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I see you want the whole group(HOA) to pay for your things/toys...you can't even pay for your electricity for your computer...ever thought about buying a wood burning model, or a hand crank model...I am only in my mid 70's, & I don't use my 'club' as much as I should...I am usually climbing mountains, or doing walks for cancer,etc on the weekends...or taking care of my 'vineyard', flower gardens, veggie garden, or doing things with my family...or helping out at the Irish Culture Center, am going to the Jazz festival in Chandler, I have been Diabetic for over 10 years, have lost over 70#'s, and will be very glad to have you keep up with me...now as long as you wouldn't be on the blog anymore...this must be your memorial piece...Is there anything that I can do for your ('final resting place)'memory'???...you have been 'entertaining'...you could put that on your stone...ct
PS...I will just continue to pay for myself, while helping my neighbors with what ever is needed...ct
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kswane
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:48 am |
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Dear Dorothy, Irish Kid and friends,
Do you "duck for cover" from the sniper fire when you get your morning paper?
GESTAPO...DISPOSESS...ENHALE..."OWNED SHEEP"...DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR....those words do not belong in a rational conversation.
Walkers, wheelchairs and scooters? Do you need one? We have an absolutely fantastic community help center that can provide you with what you need.
When my parents moved here, they did not need these things. But they do today.
Do you have a problem with that? I don't. But I don't expect the community to assume full responsibilty for the care of my family. They are members by the way.
Things change and a real community will change as well.
I do hope that you have a happy, positive life, but you may need to change youur attitude.
This will be my final entry on this blog because you are not worthy of the electricity required to publish it.
Feel free to stop by anytime,
Kirk Swanson
750 N 58th St
Dreamland Villa
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 11:45 am |
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Dear Mary: I couldn't agree more...why these newcomers believe they can sneak around and find a way to disposess the existing owners is beyond me. Why in the world did they buy here in the first place? All the walkers, wheelchairs, scooters etc. should have given them a clue!
Sorry about the enhaling...I've been hanging around that snotty bunch too long! ha
Dorothy7
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 11:41 am |
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| To: Avery: I responded to your drivel on Happy in Dreamland...Dorothy7 Last edited on Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 11:42 am by Dorothy7
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 10:40 pm |
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Dear 'HOASforNEVER...Let me state a few facts...I know this will be unusual for you, but just read...and THINK!!!...
...Just what is an HOA going to do for this whole area...
*- Collect money from every home in the subdivision...same amount, not depending on ANYTHING...
*- Ellect a dozen or so to be the 'gestapo' dept...
*- Hire another dozen or so, to tell the 1st 'dozen' what to do, or what is accepted, or excepted...
*- And other things that the 'HIRED' 'gang' will do, is find ways to increase the income of the 'HOASforNEVER's...all at the expense of the 'owned 'sheep' living in this 'peaceful' community...
And the 'community' will be 'happ-ier', forever & forever...
Here are some things that are planned...for 'you'all', by 'them'all'.
--Rake all the rocks the same exact direction...every day at least.
--Make sure all the trees are pruned the same way, the same day.
--The money isn't going far enough...raise the dues...
--The 'Club House needs new furniture...for the 'employees'
--More money...a 'new' 'temporary' hike in dues...
--The Gym needs new machines...
--No more 'dues' increases...we are 'just' going to charge the same amount...just every month, not once a year...
--Now we have a lot of 'gawker' people driving thru our 'great' area...we need a guard @ the front gate...guess we will have to build a wall around this 'fantastic' area...we have more people trying to get in here than we can handle...except collecting the dues, of course...
--Now we are going to start charging $20, $30,000...just to buy in this area...if they can find a home for sale...I guess we still have a few of the 'older' folks...& of course, there is always the sicker ones, & the semi-invalids...All 'these' people need to find a 'different' place to live...'they even look different than our 'mandatory' 55 age limitation', and we have a waiting list of 'rock stars', 'chemical peddlers', etc...
--But now we have to change our name...how about 'Rock On, Baby'...or even just 'Dreamland-not'...kinda has a 'ring to' it..ct
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Marywanna
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 10:21 pm |
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| Thats all sweet n all but it sounds as though you have inhaled way tooo long yourself. I would never participate in enslaving the elderly nor would I give my money to crooks who do so. I don't think I would ever stick myself in a place such as dreamland Villa neither, especially knowing the freakshow that has been going on there. You try to have a nice day while your constant daily freak show prolongs! To all the other victims of this place, my apologies. Last edited on Mon Mar 31st, 2008 10:22 pm by Marywanna
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 01:24 pm |
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Dear Mary: It's simple dear. We bought and paid for our homes, and object to having anyone sneak around and claim a controlling interest in them. This club suffers from delusions of grandeur...it offers nothing of value to the majority of owners in DV. Nothing!
Don't enhale, dear. Your mind will clear. Dorothy7
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Marywanna
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Posted: Mon Mar 31st, 2008 12:45 am |
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| This all sounds soo sad. There is ALWAYS someone who wants to prey on the elderly. My Q is why are these people still bothering to live in this establishment? Once the light is shed, why are they not moving out and saying "the hell with this place?"
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HOASFOREVER
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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Dorothy,
I have been thinking about your threesome for about 4 years now. What I think is that you all claim to want to help and protect our elderly residents. Right??
What you have accomplished is misery and pain for most of the elderly that you three have convinced you are trying to help. Did you tell them if they lost
that it would cost them dearly but cost you three cohorts nothing?? Did you tell them they could pay the dues and see what happens?? Maybe they all would be happy and enjoying their days and not have to worry about tomorrow. You three have and continue to inflict more pain on these people than they would have if you would have left them alone.
I am sure Mr Espinosa would still be with us without someones intervention. Causing him the aggravation and pain of going to court caused undue stress and pain on this poor man!! ALL the liens and late fees were 100% caused by someone convincing these poor people to follow them down a road of destruction!
Now we have someone running around in section nine showing a police badge and threating to tape record people?? Any idea who that was, I think you know them very well?? Ask the police department that pulled him over and question him! What are you going to do next to help our frail and sick neighbors?? I think they will be happy and content without any more of the three cohorts interfering in their lives.
Do I think you will leave these people alone?? No, because you three have a personal agenda and will use anyone and everyone to accomplish it!!!!!
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 05:11 pm |
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| Great Job, Dorothy...& as usual...right on!!! It will be verrry interesting to see what kind of progress they will make with thier proposal...more power to them ...would like to talk with them...& help if I can...if you know of a connection, I would appreciate it...THANKS!!!...ct
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Dorothy7
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Posted: Sun Mar 30th, 2008 12:56 pm |
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Dear Irish:
I think it would be of interest to the readers of the Independent to discover that Section 9 is trying to remove SADR (Second Amended Declaration of Restrictions) filed on their property by the DVCC Board in January, 2004 without the knowledge or consent of the owners in that section.
A group of Dreamland homeowners is going door to door (just as the board did) asking owners in Section 9 who were AT LAST sent a copy of SADR this past month, and now know that the board deceived them into signing a petition that would allow the Board to lien their property by simply recording a late payment of dues or assessments.
JUST AS THE DISSIDENTS HAVE SAID.
This Amendment would remove the effects of SADR, and require that in the future, any amendment to the declaration would require 80% of owners voting to approve.
Now, the Board is harassing those who are offering the amendment, and threatening them.
Now, the Board is telling residents that increasing the number of owners required to amend would place the Senior Overlay in jeopardy.
This is a bald-faced lie.
The Senior Overlay is granted to Dreamland Villa by the Planning and Development Department, of Maricopa County, after an application is made in which it is detrmined that 80% of owners are, in fact, over 55. That's it, and that is all.
In 1995, and attempt to amend the Original Declarations attached to Dreamland property was made by the then board. It was a straightforward attempt to allow the Board to enforce an age restriction at the time of sale. It has never been enforced because it would allow the Board to violate Federal Law, which forbids discriminating against buyers because of their age. (Federal Fair Housing Act of 1989.)
Thus, it has no effect, and cannot be enforced. Only the County can grant and enforce the Senior Overlay, AFTER IT HAS GRANTED DV THE EXEMPTION FROM THE FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING ACT. The Board cannot, nor can anyone else.
What's more...the Board and all its members know that....or should know that.
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 08:45 am |
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I appreciate your naietivity...us 'younger' folks should have it...I am only in my 70's, so I 'expect' to live here for a long time...the 'key' word being 'expect'...have been here almost 6 years by now...retired thru hard work & damm good luck, at the ripe old age of 51...busy growing vegetables, flowers, fruit, & shade trees on my property...I have lived in 'gated' comunities most of my life(not my choice)...can't say I ever liked or enjoyed any of them...I am more a 'down home guy'...like to walk across the back yard & talk to the neighbors...
Now as far as your 'suggestions'...more power to you...they(tho not pertinet to this discussion), seem quite normal...for a reasonably 'newcomer'...I could go thru the whole club history, but I will only go thru mine...again...I have an excersize room in my home...my Insurance pays for a membership in any 'organized' gym/workout place I want...
I like talking/enjoying time/ with all my neighbors...& local friends...I belong to the Irish culture center(& participate as often as I can...even wearing my 'Kilt' on holidays & 'celebration' days...I have two Daughters who live here, & spend a lot of time with them...bottom line, is...I am happy with my life as it is...after all 'I' made it this way, so why shouldn't I enjoy it...
In 40 years, here is what has happened...and 'NONE' of this is the fault of the current 'BOARD'...except trying to cover the 'butts' of many boards before them(& the method that they chose to solve 'their' problems...they need to read up on the responsibilities & liabilities of being on a board of directors of a not-for-profit organization/corporation...bet they will rue the day...that they didn't...)
Back to the 'history lesson'...from the time of the 'new' buildings in question...there evidently has never been a ''rainy day/maintenance budget"...invested in some interest bearing account to take care of all things as they came along...when they were 'small' items...Now they want all the current members to pay for years of 'stupid management'...and that is using both of those words 'loosely'...
The current Board is 'toally GUILTY', of not surveying the 'Villa', holding an open meeting...with everyone being invited, or even mailing out a questionaire to everyone...which would have given them some idea of what the Villa Residents wanted...not just an 'HOA' lawyer(I'm being nice)...just MAYBE...the MAJORITY WANTS THEM TO CLOSE THE FACILITIES!!!...Did ANYBODY EVER THINK TO ASK THAT??? Did they ever ask ANYBODY if they even wanted an HOA??? ...dont think so...ct
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 08:20 am |
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Sorry, but you don't get the message...I don't want or expect ANYONE to do 'anything' for me...and as far as my Daughters are concerned(and YOU definitely need to not worry about them)...You evidently don't know or understand HOA's...they have both been in their homes longer than 14 years...and even tho they both started paying about $50 a month...one is now paying over $2700/year, the other is paying a bit more than that...and the HOA's do no more or even less than they used to do...except of course take residents to court at the drop of the hat...but in all honesty...like most HOA's, they are owned by a 'lawyer'... who files all the suits & 'confiscation' papers...& charges the max for his work, as nobody can complain about what he charges his own business...against the "Home Owners"...commonly known as the "bill payers" or suckers...
And as far as having my neighbors do anything for me, you are welcome to check with my neighbors...but you will find out that I am the guy that helps everyone else...as the eldest of 10 boys & 2 girls, born during the 'depression', still am taking care of my elderly Mother, & farmed for many years..along with running a business...I learned to be very 'independent', pay my own way, do my own 'thing', help where ever I can...AND ENJOY LIFE TO THE FULLEST...like any self-respecting Irish man would do...ct
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IrishKid3
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 05:58 am |
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Sorry, but you don't get the message...I don't want or expect ANYONE to do 'anything' for me...and as far as my Daughters are concerned(and YOU definitely need to not worry about them)...You evidently don't know or understand HOA's...they have both been in their homes longer than 14 years...and even tho they both started paying about $50 a month...one is now paying over $2700/year, the other is paying a bit more than that...and the HOA's do no more or even less than they used to do...except of course take residents to court at the drop of the hat...but in all honesty...like most HOA's, they are owned by a 'lawyer'... who files all the suits & 'confiscation' papers...& charges the max for his work, as nobody can complain about what he charges his own business...against the "Home Owners"...commonly known as the "bill payers" or suckers...
And as far as having my neighbors do anything for me, you are welcome to check with my neighbors...but you will find out that I am the guy that helps everyone else...as the eldest of 10 boys & 2 girls, born during the 'depression', still am taking care of my elderly Mother, & farmed for many years..along with running a business...I learned to be very 'independent', pay my own way, do my own 'thing', help where ever I can...AND ENJOY LIFE TO THE FULLEST...like any self-respecting Irish man would do...ct
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