| Author | Post |
|---|
HELLO LOGIC
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 91 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 02:39 am |
|
I didn't buy from a Dell Web salesperson, but was definitely duped.
"Never going to change", it did change the year after I moved here. So the golf course houses have title/deeds to protect them, but the remainder of us have no recourse.
If use it or loose it doesn't work, how about If you can't afford it, you can't have it.
I know, move, I will, do you know anybody with deep pockets, who wants to throw away everything they worked for on golfers.
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 162 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 01:53 am |
|
There are a few factors that the "golfies" and others of that ilk aren't taking into consideration about golf in Sun City West. Firstly, from what I've read, the number of golf rounds has been dropping for several years on a national basis. Secondly, there are changes occurring in the American economy that will probably preclude Sun City West from inducing "youngsters" to settle here to play golf as a day-to-day activity. With the elimination of many corporate pension plans and the advancing of Social Security full retirement age, fewer people will be able to afford an "early" retirement. In fact, retirements are being delayed back toward 70 years of age or even later. For working adults in the 55 to 70 age group, there isn't much to do in the West Valley beside retail work and Walmart greeters can't afford and don't have time for golf. Those that can afford an "early" retirement will probably move to high end communities with a wider range of different amenities. There are further changes in the American economy coming as a result of the current economic recession as 401k "nest eggs" will have been seriously degraded, possibly never to recover and the structure of how people earn their living changes. America had an affluent middle class in the post-World War II era up until the early 70s. That affluence has been fading... it now takes two earners to suppport a lifestyle that one could in the past. There is also the factor of how do you induce "youngsters" to move into an ageing community where the two quite different age cultures will undoubtedly clash.
Sun City West needs to take a long hard look and probably think about re-inventing itself. This will be a painful process with many folks opposed to any sort of change simply because it is change. People are most comfortable with what they know, but many of the things that were important to my parents aren't that important to me and are even less so to my children. Like it or not, we don't "clone" from generation to generation.
One thought, if "Golf Course Property" is so important to some folks, why shouldn't they shoulder some of the burden to make sure the courses stay viable, if that is possible? If deed restrictions and covenants can be changed by a vote of property owners why not put it to the people to determine if a community of 38,000 people can really support the current number of "public" courses? Could under-utilized courses be converted to recreational "Green Belts"? Also, at the same time, maybe a look should be taken at the whole amenities package and structure.
I was once a member of a Scandinavian-American fraternal club with a dwindling, ageing membership and was the junior member by about 20 years. It was brought up at a meeting that, "We need to attract new younger members". Having identified and stated the problem, no action was ever taken, since the problem was obviously regarded as having been "solved". The members didn't have a clue as to what younger folks might be interested in and so the lodge went on being a geriatric kaffe-klatch until it eventually disbanded. Other lodges in the area did know and thrived.
Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 02:32 am by rfolland
|
wildfan
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 1st, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 09:01 pm |
|
What many people fail to realize is that the "CONTRACT" they signed was only a promise from a Dell Webb salesperson. That's the way Dell Webb ran it, because they could subsidize everything. Their goal was not to establish By Laws that were for the long term life of the community, but to make it look good while they sold houses.
Rec fees subsidize everything in SCW, including golf. That is never going to change. I'm told that the thought of closing courses has surfaced with boards and it has been determined that it cannot be done because of original sales contracts with homeowners living on golf courses. Apparently there is something in the property title/deed that defines the lot as being on a golf course. If we were able to close a course or two, we'd never be able to get consensus on which courses to close.
We'd be better off to push our board to make changes to attract younger (55, not younger) residents to the community. When houses turn over here, they are mostly turning over to the 65-75 age range. The younger the average age, the more golf will be played and the less subsidy will be required. Water walking, shuffleboard and lawn bowling is not going to attract many baby boomers. Up to date fitness facilities would.
|
HELLO LOGIC
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 91 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 06:43 pm |
|
| The original paperwork I agreed to and signed said there were three separate entities. I would like to get back to the contract I signed. The board took it upon themselves to change the contract (by-laws) because the golf was not being used enough and couldn't support itself. I don't use all the clubs and facilities that are under the Recreation Center Dues, but I DID AGREE to pay it. NOT GOLF OR BOWLING. Whats next? People who fly want an airfield, race car track, come on think big.....
|
Henry Shaw
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 7 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 07:19 am |
|
| Apparently our questions are falling on deaf ears. Maybe the board consist of tennis and pickleball players. I am tired of all the whining of residents who dont golf complain about having their rec dues raised to pay for it. I pay rec dues too, in addition to annual or daily green fees to play golf. I have been asking the same questions as you about other sports paying a fee but no one can explain, even though they agree with me about all of us paying a fee to play our sport,. Maybe we should start a petition. I would be more than glad to sign. Lets all play together and PAY together
|
HELLO LOGIC
Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 91 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 11:57 pm |
|
The requirement for golf self-sufficiency changed when the board voted in a new by-law, so we can all pay for the Primere Golf Community maintenance. I say use it or loose it. If its not self sufficient the usage should change. Not enough tennis players got the courts changed to pickle ball. How about a bike path, a walking path instead of a golf course. If we have to pay for it, we should be a
ble to use it. Five years of the same old, same old. What happen to all the petition people on voting day?
|
JOSE
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 11:20 pm |
|
NO, Not asking for golf to be feeless, asking why not collect revenue
for these othere activities so you will not have to raise rec. fees and golf fees
annually. We are all one community and share and share alike.
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 162 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 11:08 pm |
|
The reason that there are fees for golf and not for other activities is that according to the Recreation Centers setup golf and bowling are required to be self-sufficient financially. It was probably set up that way as they are dollar intensive activities. Funny, though, you don't hear the bowlers kvetching. The maintenance on a golf course is several orders of magnitude more expensive than is the maintenance on the activities covered by the annual Rec. fee such as tennis, pickle ball, or shuffleboard. If golf were to become a "fee-less" activity, the annual rec fees would have to be raised by more than just a little bit and one would would hope that the property owners who don't golf and those that don't use the facilities at all would rise up in open rebellion at the though of subsidizing such an expensive habit.
|
JOSE
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 08:46 pm |
|
In reguards to this article, that is the questions we ask and never get any answers to. Where does the money come from to keep all those facilities repaired? Why is there not a fee for tennis and pickle ball, lawn bowling and etc. We need some answers and we need more residents to get concerned about this and ask these questions. Golf is one of the main reasons some of us have purchased our homes and we pay the price to use our golf courses, WHY NOT THE OTHERS????
|
Current time is 05:54 am | |
|