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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 02:34 pm |
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| gadfly.....so according to you, all the people that didn't vote don't count, so students don't count. What about the parents that didn't vote, do they not count or have rights either? .....you already know how I feel....EVERYBODY COUNTS!!! Joe Bernier
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integrityforPUSD
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 12:55 pm |
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| Hey Gadfly, you just described your thought process in one sentence......"I think NOT."
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gadfly
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 06:09 am |
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Joewrites4rights wrote: Gadfly....We've had this conversation before.....it doesn't matter who got voted in. No one can take your rights from you. Even if others view it as a trivial right, not even a majority vote may remove it. For example: if you vote for someone that says they are going to create a curfew for all of the people over 60.....even if that person is voted into office by the majority.....they cannot create or enforce an unlawful policy that infringes upon the rights of others. And just for the record, none of the school board candidates won by the majority of their constituents....just the majority of those who went to vote.
And don't attempt to spin this around to something it is not. KK openly showed her disrespect and true feelings, not only towards my daughter, but also towards all of who she serves. We, the public, have every right, and duty I might add, to participate in this local democratic system. If we were all just to bow down to tyrants like her and her group of closers....this would quickly turn into a poor place to live. Joe Bernier
Joe - if you don't vote, you don't count. You do have every right to participate in the democratic system, but do you have a right to make a farce of it - I think not.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 04:54 am |
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Gadfly....We've had this conversation before.....it doesn't matter who got voted in. No one can take your rights from you. Even if others view it as a trivial right, not even a majority vote may remove it. For example: if you vote for someone that says they are going to create a curfew for all of the people over 60.....even if that person is voted into office by the majority.....they cannot create or enforce an unlawful policy that infringes upon the rights of others. And just for the record, none of the school board candidates won by the majority of their constituents....just the majority of those who went to vote.
And don't attempt to spin this around to something it is not. KK openly showed her disrespect and true feelings, not only towards my daughter, but also towards all of who she serves. We, the public, have every right, and duty I might add, to participate in this local democratic system. If we were all just to bow down to tyrants like her and her group of closers....this would quickly turn into a poor place to live. Joe Bernier
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gadfly
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 03:52 am |
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PUSD Teacher wrote: Mr. Bernier,
Mrs. Knecht's unwarranted, unethical and unprovoked attack on your daughter was certainly the top issue of conversation at my school today. Please know that most of us are embarrassed by her actions, and that they in no way reflect the way we treat our students.
Repect, on both sides, rules the day.
PUSD Teacher - I am certainly not going to try and defend Mrs. Knecht's actions against a freshman in high school. The issue begs this question, however, what if instead she had attacked her father, Joe. Would you have been as sympathetic to this? Do you feel at all that parading these speeches at the school board meetings is disrespectful in its own regard especially since the policy of closed campuses was voted in by candidates who promised they were going to do just that? Isn't it disrespectful to the majority of the voters to now have these speeches at every board meeting? Aren't you at all embarrassed that they are basically saying we don't care what the voters say, we're going to keep doing this until you give us our way?
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integrityforPUSD
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 03:02 am |
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I would hope that teachers, parents, administrators and students would be equally outraged at the behavior of the administrator at SMHS, for calling her into his office and intimidating her.
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PUSD Teacher
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 02:20 am |
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Mr. Bernier,
Mrs. Knecht's unwarranted, unethical and unprovoked attack on your daughter was certainly the top issue of conversation at my school today. Please know that most of us are embarrassed by her actions, and that they in no way reflect the way we treat our students.
Repect, on both sides, rules the day.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 06:16 pm |
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| Integrity.....Thank you, and my daughter thanks you as well. As you can imagine, she has been pretty rattled by both the principals actions, and now, KK's actions towards her. Personally, I am both proud and impressed with how she is handling it. Sure, some tears have been shed.....but she is stronger that I ever was as a freshman. And she feels, like I do as well, that the pain of being pushed around, bullied, and ridiculed now, is far less than the pain that we would be experiencing later by living under the despotic control of people who don't respect us as parents and students of this district. Joe Bernier
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integrityforPUSD
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 04:09 pm |
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Joe,
I was infuriated by how Kathy Knecht talked to your daughter. However, it bothered me even more to hear that the principal at SMHS called your daughter into his office and used intimidation tactics on her. First, this is typical for this administrator to do this sort of thing. Second, from my understanding of what was said last night, this happened at the direction or suggestion of the district administration. This too, is typical for the district administration use these sort of tactics to keep a lid on controversial issues. What is disgusting is they are going along with Kathy Knecht because they want Denton Santarelli to be named the next Superintendent. Even more disgusting is the use of intimidation on a high school freshman. Every parent should caution their child that if they feel even a little bit uncomfortable talking to an administrator they have a right to ask for their parent/s to be present, and refuse to talk until their parent/s have been called. In this case the SMHS administrator and district administration knows of your involvement in this matter, and they should have contacted you, and talked to you before they did this.
In regards to Kathy Knecht, that was just plain crazy for her to address your daughter like she did. She apparently felt the need to defend her actions which in my opinion were out of line. Her sister living on Littleton, CO is not an excuse to dismiss Cheyenne’s concerns as ungrounded. And to claim feeling threatened is totally outrageous!
And I will also add this, there is only one board member seated that is acting like a professional and that is Pat Galbraith.
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integrityforPUSD
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 01:51 pm |
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| Don't give up Joe, and don't let the students give up. I saw what happened last night and I will write more about this later...
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gadfly
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 08:48 am |
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| Maybe an adult needs to tell them it's time to give it up Last edited on Wed Oct 24th, 2007 08:49 am by gadfly
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 07:46 am |
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| gadfly.....actually you are part correct. But the adult that requested that the students address the board with their concerns, instead of protesting, was KK herself. That's what got the students so riled up....because when they did start addressing the board, she called them "invalid" and stated that it was time "to move on". That's when the students formed a group and promised each other to never back down. Joe Bernier
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gadfly
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 07:38 am |
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| I've made it pretty clear I think that the speeches week after week are pointless and somebody had the idea to do this. I'm assuming the idea came from the adult.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 07:28 am |
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| FYI...I'm not sure what, if any, implication you are trying to make. But I have never seen any adult organizing the student's speeches. And as much as I sometimes want to, I don't even edit what my own daughters say. Joe Bernier
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gadfly
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 07:24 am |
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| Joe - I didn't see it, but I'm sorry for your daughter if she did this and was a dumb thing for a board member to do. Attack the adult who organized these speeches is fair game , but attacking the kids that get up and do it was not a wise thing to do.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 07:02 am |
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If you want to see more mistreatment of our youth, just tune in to the airing of the 10/23 board meeting. (airs Thursday @ 7:00 pm, channel 99) My daughter, Cheyenne, gets verbally abused by KK both during and after her 3 minute address to the board. This outrageous display of disrespect towards my daughter, all of the students in the district, and even all of the parents, is cause for her resignation. She is a disgrace to the governing board. Joe Bernier
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 09:11 pm |
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Diane Douglas, Rick Murphy and Kathy Knecht went too far in trying to regulate parental rights. It is clear they were trying to make sure that no one took advantage of going off campus at lunch on a repeated basis. However, that is how they are over stepping their boundary. And yet, Rick Murphy hasn’t put his children in a PUSD school, because he wanted to freedom to regulate his child’s education in a manner he chose to regulate his children’s education. Diane Douglas does not have a child in the system anymore, and Kathy Knecht doesn’t have a child at the high school level. I suspect if any one of them were to decide to sign their child out for an appointment, they wouldn’t have tolerated any school official attempting to regulate their taking their child out.
Additionally, this new policy will not prevent those that are determined, from circumventing this policy. It will only be the parents and students that follow the rules in general, that will follow this policy.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 05:28 pm |
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| gadfly....thanks for your kind words. I know I'm extreme and way over the top sometimes. I am not too proud to admit that. I also realize that being that way rubs some people the wrong way, but at the same time, it keeps the awareness up and stimulates thought and dialogue that would likely not have occurred otherwise. I, personally, have learned a tremendous amount through this process, I think a lot of people on both sides of the issue have. Even though I don't agree with the "closers" view of this, I have always appreciated the ability to have the open dialogue and debate about it. Thanks again....Joe Bernier
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gadfly
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 03:47 pm |
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Joewrites4rights wrote: Gadfly...on a serious note, I think it was you who posted to me that you were fine with the closed campus policy that the board voted in on May 8th. I know a lot of people just think that the voted to "close the campuses". But that's not all they did....the language they voted on did NOT allow parents to pick up their own kids at anytime. Not unless you as a parent, could show proof (verify) that you were taking them to a doctors or orthodontist (approved) appointment. I have no idea how you were to get that done PRIOR to the appt. PLUS...those appointments had to be limited (yes...that policy said"on a limited basis"). The language in place would allow the school to say "I'm sorry, but we think you kid has had enough appointments this week, month, year....and you are no longer going to be able to take them".
So, if I understand you correctly.....you (and others like rgd) were perfectly fine with that? The County Attorney's office thought that was going too far. Even other closers agreed and signed our petition. Which the County Attorney's office recommend me to do. They said if it doesn't get changed and parental rights are not re-instated, bring them the signatures and a letter....they will do the rest!!! See.....it's NOT just me!!! It's 3,000 plus the County Attorney....maybe more. Joe Bernier
Yes, I was perfectly fine with the old policy of parental permision. It didn't (and doesn't) mean that much to me. I knew going in all along (and when I voted), they were going to close the campuses. I think the district figured out that there were going to be people (Joe) with a permission slip every day around lunchtime to pull their kid out to go to the doctor and what are you going to do about it. It would have made a farce of the whole policy and they knew they had to do something to ward this off. I think it is one of those policies they will never enforce and it is just on there in case someone tries to skirt the policy blatantly.
Having said that, however, and I never thought I would ever say this, I do agree with you that I am more than a bit uncomfortable that someone even has the authority to say, 'I'm sorry you've been out too many times, you can't go.' I would never sign a petition from you guys because you've handled this so badly, but this is one area I would be mildly interested to know if there is a legal boundary the district has crossed. You know, the County Attorney may have told you he would help you two weeks ago, but after this New Times fiasco, Thomas is not going to be willing to take on a school district and its internal policies now. It's just not going to happen.
Let me say one more thing, Joe. I know I've been a thorn in your side all weekend and I still think a lot of your views are way out there, but I do admire people who are willing to stick their neck out like you have and you have definitely got your neck way out there. It's one thing to be at home making light from my computer of what you say and it's quite another to attempt to actually mobilize a side like you have, however misguided that side might be.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 02:14 pm |
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Gadfly...on a serious note, I think it was you who posted to me that you were fine with the closed campus policy that the board voted in on May 8th. I know a lot of people just think that the voted to "close the campuses". But that's not all they did....the language they voted on did NOT allow parents to pick up their own kids at anytime. Not unless you as a parent, could show proof (verify) that you were taking them to a doctors or orthodontist (approved) appointment. I have no idea how you were to get that done PRIOR to the appt. PLUS...those appointments had to be limited (yes...that policy said"on a limited basis"). The language in place would allow the school to say "I'm sorry, but we think you kid has had enough appointments this week, month, year....and you are no longer going to be able to take them".
So, if I understand you correctly.....you (and others like rgd) were perfectly fine with that? The County Attorney's office thought that was going too far. Even other closers agreed and signed our petition. Which the County Attorney's office recommend me to do. They said if it doesn't get changed and parental rights are not re-instated, bring them the signatures and a letter....they will do the rest!!! See.....it's NOT just me!!! It's 3,000 plus the County Attorney....maybe more. Joe Bernier
Last edited on Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 02:23 pm by Joewrites4rights
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 04:16 am |
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Wow, you missed me so much you came back already!!!
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gadfly
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 04:09 am |
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| Don't worry, I'll be watching, though, Concerned, If the decision is to use Option A,B.C,or D. I personally like D myself.
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 03:43 am |
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| Yeah!!! But, then I have read that before. So this time really take your pompous, charming attitude and go blog somewhere else.
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gadfly
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 03:13 am |
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concernedaboutPUSD wrote: Actually Gadfly, I was thinking of saying something about you two hens having too much fun in your hen house. Then I thought I better just leave it as, having too much fun in your hen house.
I was also thinking that you two sound like you have a hair stuck up somewhere, which is probably how I got hare confused with hair, as in bunny rabbit hare.
I do, however, know the difference between to/too and two. I was in English class the day that was taught, just as I was in English class when we were taught the difference between a shoofly, horsefly and gadfly, two of which are just irritating pests.
Oh my, I have heard of smart bombs but I haven't heard of smart keyboards. Perhaps you should send your keyboard to French class so that it can learn how to let you use the accent mark. Or, maybe you should just show the keyboard who is boss.
I'm sorry, Concerned, but that was the most pathetic post...if Joe is going is to spoil my fun by not responding to my comments as if he were on a quest for the cure for cancer, you're just not a worthy replacement. You gave it a good try, but I'm not going to be able to do it. It would be like stealing candy from a baby. You'll be glad to know unless Pompous Joe comes back, I am officially retiring from this blog.
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 02:21 am |
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Actually Gadfly, I was thinking of saying something about you two hens having too much fun in your hen house. Then I thought I better just leave it as, having too much fun in your hen house.
I was also thinking that you two sound like you have a hair stuck up somewhere, which is probably how I got hare confused with hair, as in bunny rabbit hare.
I do, however, know the difference between to/too and two. I was in English class the day that was taught, just as I was in English class when we were taught the difference between a shoofly, horsefly and gadfly, two of which are just irritating pests.
Oh my, I have heard of smart bombs but I haven't heard of smart keyboards. Perhaps you should send your keyboard to French class so that it can learn how to let you use the accent mark. Or, maybe you should just show the keyboard who is boss.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 12:36 am |
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Gadfly.....I'm just having "for fun" blogging now....Don't take what I'm about to say too serious. I see your humor, I actually like it, but you can't give me an opening like that and not expect the obvious response from me, which is, wait,,,, let me get on my high horse....."We are in America" the American language is the preferred way of communication.
Like I said....just making fun of myself!!!! And all of us!!! Have a great evening, and I'll see you (but I won't know who you are) tomorrow night.....Bernier....Out!!!
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 11:17 pm |
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concernedaboutPUSD wrote: Here is how you help Gadfly, you keep can keep your word and stop blogging regarding this issue. Joe is right, spell check will not catch that. I do know the difference, I was just thinking of the intelligence level of the people I was responding to.
Oh, I somehow doubt you two are really gone. You hare having too much fun in your hen houses.
I was actually hoping spellcheck would help you with the word "hare". But you and Joe hare right, hare is a word and now that I reread it "You hare having to much fun", it makes perfect sense now and I think I'll start using it like that now. I can perfectly understand how you never learned the difference between two/to/too. You probably were planning those important protests of cafeteria lunches and you missed English class that day.
And Joe - I prefer the French version of groupee, rather than the more Americanized version spelled groupie. If my keyboard would allow it, I would put the accent over the second "e" and then I would be totally correct. We closers like to use French versions of everything, I don't know, it's just one of those traits we all have.
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 10:39 pm |
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| Here is how you help Gadfly, you keep can keep your word and stop blogging regarding this issue. Joe is right, spell check will not catch that. I do know the difference, I was just thinking of the intelligence level of the people I was responding to.
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 09:41 pm |
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| Just trying to help Joe
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 09:29 pm |
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gadfly....you are weakly grasping at straws...spell check doesn't differentiate between to/too/two....we didn't tell you to spellcheck when you misspelled the word "groupee" (should be groupie) a few posts ago.
You've shown your true self again, demonstrating yet another trait of the "closers", whenever they can't find anything actually worthwhile to say, they resort to childish behavior. Joe Bernier
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 08:30 pm |
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concernedaboutPUSD wrote: Oh, I somehow doubt you two are really gone. You hare having to much fun in your hen houses.
Concerned - Spellcheck and
TO/TOO/TWO
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 02:23 am |
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Oh, I somehow doubt you two are really gone. You are  having too much fun in your hen houses.
Hare today, gone tomorrow..!!
Last edited on Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 02:23 am by concernedaboutPUSD
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surprisemotherof2
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 02:16 am |
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gadfly wrote:
Surprise - Thank you for the link and the wonderful quotation. I am ordering some of these shirts. These people think they're planning the invasion of Normandy with their Option A, B..It is just absurd after a while and it doesn't do good to try and reason with them.
I agree. I give up trying to get Joe Schmoe to listen to reason.
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 02:07 am |
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surprisemotherof2 wrote: gadfly wrote: Joe -
I give up with you, I really do.
Hey gadfly, I thought you might want to go in with me on these t-shirts I saw advertised. I think we might know someone it applies to. Here's the link:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/frustrations/6b6e/
What a blissful life we would lead if we weren't constantly surrounded by throngs of the intellectually challenged. How joyful the day would be if we didn't have to deal with questions, problems, complaints and rants from the everyday idiots, dullards and blockheads of this world. Call it a gift, call it a curse, but no matter how hard we try not to, we see dumb people. Lots of 'em. 100% cotton heavyweight black t-shirt with the phrase "I see dumb people" printed front and center in white ink.
Surprise - Thank you for the link and the wonderful quotation. I am ordering some of these shirts. These people think they're planning the invasion of Normandy with their Option A, B..It is just absurd after a while and it doesn't do good to try and reason with them.
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 01:41 am |
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| Thanks Joe - it's just so easy with you.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 01:21 am |
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| gadfly.....I can't believe you would rather berate me and all the other parents instead of having a mature dialogue about the issue. You are proving to the public my point of exactly why people like you have no business controlling others. I feel ashamed of myself for even taking you seriously enough to have dialogue with you these past few days. You are a true example of a "closer". Stand proud!!! Joe Bernier
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 01:18 am |
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Gadfly,
I can read you are attempting to impress people with your intelligence and wit again.
Joe, unfortunately, the district hasn't learned that proper protocol is what led to Diane Douglas, Rick Murphy and Kathy Knecht being elected as board members. Also unfortunately, history has shown that those that go along in a peaceful manner in the district, and those that go through proper channels, 99% of the time lose their battles with not only districts, but governments as well. Both the Governing Board and the administration is counting on you and the students to continue your peaceful protest at the board meetings, and in the mean time the entire school year will come to a close without Option B, reinstated. Then the summer will come along and they will count on more and more people losing interest, and soon the entire issue will die out.
I know that you were able to get many signatures from parents that want Option B to be reinstated. But, I am afraid with time students and parents are going to lose interest. In fact you may be experiencing this happening already. The only possible hope for this issue to continued to be sustained would be to have a protest of some kind. If you don't want to distrupted the education environment, then take it directly to the Board Meeting. Or, go to one of their functions. In fact there is one coming up it is the Peoria Education Enrichment Foundation Visionary Awards and Celebration dinner on November 1, 2007, 6PM at the Union Hills Country Club. Going there and holding a protest will not interfere with the learning environment.
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gadfly
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 12:44 am |
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Joe Plan of Attack:
Option A : Ask a bunch of high school students to take a day off school and chant things.
Option B: Bore everyone at the board meetings to tears until everyone says: OKAY YOUR KIDS CAN EAT WHEREVER THEY WANT, PLEASE. NO MORE SPEECHES.
Option C: Ask a bunch of high school students to take a day off school and chant things.
Option D : Hold our breath until our faces turn red.
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:56 pm |
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Concerned...thank you....you are 100% correct. It would make a far larger impact and gain much more attention if I just helped stage the next protest. We were asked by the district "follow proper protocol" and address the board. The closers even stated that we should do the same. Well, I now question that advice. It is far more efficient to help the parents and students put together a protest. In fact we have two already planned out. We just haven't set the dates because we are giving this "address" the board thing our full effort. If they continue to ignore us, we will have no other choice but to move forward with our plans. Again....thanks for bringing this up. Joe Bernier
P.S. I can't believe they called you a groupie, it totally shows their maturity level. You and I both know we are two of over 3,000 parents that feel this way!!
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:13 pm |
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| So you are more concerned about your niece than your own children.
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surprisemotherof2
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:09 pm |
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concernedaboutPUSD wrote:
Surprisemotherof2, why are you even involving yourself in PUSD issues? Your district can certainly use a lot more attention and help than PUSD.
Thanks for your concern, my niece goes to SMHS. Is that okay with you?
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 10:36 pm |
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| When an intelligent response fails to come to mind, you attempt sarcasm?
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 10:34 pm |
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What I am saying really isn't all that confusing. Perhaps you should try to re-read what I wrote.
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gadfly
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 10:04 pm |
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| What are you trying to say because I have no idea
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gadfly
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 10:02 pm |
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| A Joe groupee?? You even use the same silly initials for everything. So you basically are saying we are going to hold our breath until we get our way?
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 09:12 pm |
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If Joe Bernier had stayed with his original course of action and continued to help organize and stage walk outs and strikes he most likely wouldn’t have to go to the board meetings week after week. He has chosen the path of least resistance, to keep the peace. Maybe it is time for Joe Bernier and the students, to stage a good old fashioned sit-in, either at their respective schools, or at the board meeting. If he were looking for attention regarding this issue that would certain gain attention.
Surprisemotherof2, why are you even involving yourself in PUSD issues? Your district can certainly use a lot more attention and help than PUSD.
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concernedaboutPUSD
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 09:03 pm |
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Gadfly,
At this point I would prefer DD, KK or RM didn't return to Option B. Especially DD, because next year is an election year and DD seat is up for election. If DD actually plans to run for office again next year, it is my belief that this issue along with ALL of the other poor and/or uneducated choices she has made will help the competition win the election and vote her out of office.
I do want to add however that when I see the students coming forward week after week requesting from the governing board members that Option B, be reinstated, for their sake I would like to see Option B reinstated. I am amazed and proud that these students have stood up and addressed the board, and continue to do so. For them persistence I hope would pay off..
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 08:51 pm |
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gadfly....I'm not sure what your post presented. A lot of it confirms what I have been saying for a while. The accident you highlighted happened at 4:00am. FYI, last years policy was a closed campus policy....and even the schools you quoted as having "closed campuses" allow for parental permission. The landmark you speak off is the REMOVAL of the parental permission caveat. I don't understand why you can't see the difference?
And the article is opinionated about "who" may be held liable. Districts have been unsuccessfully challenged about this before. And I have brought that up before, the courts have consistently found that the student and his parents ARE the responsible party to off campus accidents....whether or not there is an open or closed lunchtime policy. The districts are even more shielded with last years policy that had the parents sign a release. Fact....open campuses do not cause accidents....poor driving decisions do!!! If you don't want your kid to drive off, don't let them!!! What we need is more driver education. Joe Bernier
P.S. I'm glad you have some personal favorites
Last edited on Sun Oct 21st, 2007 09:00 pm by Joewrites4rights
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gadfly
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 07:01 pm |
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Joewrites4rights wrote: gadfly....I'm sorry to see that you give up so easy...and without answering any of my questions of you? Obviously it's because like all of the other closers....you can't find any of the answers. And since this policy agrees with you......you don't care who gets hurt or affected in it's implementation. Don't worry.....someday soon, someone or some form of governing body will tread on you, and they will use something like this as a precedence......then you will understand. Joe Bernier
All right, I lied ,I can't resist this one last shot. I am going to take my own advice after this that I gave to Joe - to get on with life and be concerned with something more important than whether children have to eat in a cafeteria.
Joe, Joe, Joe - So no one has answered your questions. So, I have gone through your recent blogs and cut and paste every rambling that appeared to be a question of someone.
We'll call #1 - RAMBLING AND REDUNDANT JOE
.....tell me what was wrong with the PARENTS being allowed to decide for their own student? Why should high school lunch be just survivable.....How does PUSD get away with packing 600 students in a cafeteria designed for 350? Why does the city allows this fire code violation to occur? What's wrong with just letting parents and students decide what kind of lunch to experience? What you are forgetting is that ALL of our opinions count, and we should respect each others decisions for what we want our kids to experience. That's what last years policy did. Again I ask, what was wrong with that?Funny thing you brought up....it's OK for me to "home school" my children, but not OK to "home lunch" them? What do you have against choice? Why must you feel the need to control my kids?That is the American way. Why don't you want to have choice? Why do you insist on controlling others?Why are you so against freedom of choice?Why can't you answer my questions? What do the last six words of the Pledge of Allegiance mean to you?Why do you want to force OUR kids to remain on campus at lunch? What gives you or anybody else the right to demand that? Really.....why do people like you insist on controlling others? I can not figure that out....and none of you will answer that.......WHY?what was wrong with the policy that was in place Why do they want to control us? WHAT was wrong with last years policy? Again, I am for everyone having choice.....even you should have YOUR own choice.....I should not decide for you, why do you and the closers insist on deciding for me and the other parents? I'm asking you now...what was wrong with last years freedom of choice policy?Why is that you do not have any answers to my questions? Again....I respect you enough to respect your choice.....why can't you give me the same?
Answer: Boiling all these down to one, Joe really liked last year's policy. What Joe doesn't understand, or chooses not to understand, is that not everyone agrees with Joe. Last year there was a different board who the majority felt that was a pretty good policy, agreeing with Joe. Every four years, there is an election of two or three new board members. The board members state their positions on issues on the campaign. The voters then go to the polls and vote on the candidate they agree with. The candidates who said they were going to close the campuses won. The new board now feels that closing the campus for everybody is a better policy than the one Joe agrees with. Unfortunately for the people like me who have to listen to Joe's ramblings every two weeks, Joe is behaving like a child who is going to hold his breath until he gets his way. Unless it turns out we have completely gutless board members, Joe will have to wait until the next election if he wants to change the policy.
We'll call #2 - I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY BUT WILL THROW LEGAL STUFF OUT WITH NO BASIS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS GOOD JOE
I f these type of closed minded decisions continue to get made by the board, we won't be far behind the other districts that are now giving birth control pills to Jr. High school kids without parental consent. (This is my personal favorite Joe)
and as a public school the district and school MUST follow the Constitution, and respect both the rights of parents and students!!! ....
ARS 13-341 states that governing board policies must follow the laws. Closed campus policies that do not allow for parental permission do not follow the law, the law they break is called unlawful incarceration
can even go farther, when the schools impound and take control of the students vehicles by locking the parking lots, it's elevated to kidnapping. (WOW)
Plus....this policy violates everyone's liberties, a direct violation of the 14th amendment. These are the facts!!! (REALLY, A FACT?)
For example, if the whole city voted to keep you locked up in your house, even though it passed by a majority vote. The city would not be able to do it because it violates your rights. ie; liberties. Granted to you by the Constitution!!! Not any city policy, rules, charter, municipality ordinances, or school district policy.....NOT ANY OF THEM...super cede the Constitution of the United States (Another personal favorite)
ANSWER: I am really speechless that anyone who obviously has no idea what he's talking about ... I have no answer to these.
3. We'll call #3 I'll say things I never researched and hope no one actually calls me on it Joe.
Show me even one campus that was made safer when it closed.....better yet....show me just one campus that does NOT allow for parental permission. There isn't one....that's what you and the closers don't understand..... (Not one, not one Joe, you mean, this is a landmark decision right here in Peoria AZ?
ANSWER: I WENT TO THE INTERNET AND DECIDED TO PICK TWO DISTRICTS IN ARIZONA AT RANDOM. I STARTED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE ALPHABET AND ONE AT THE END AND WONDERED WHAT THEIR POLICIES WERE. SO I PICKED BUCKEYE AND TUCSON.
BUCKEYE:
Ray is pleased that his school will maintain a closed-campus policy for lunchtime. And almost all parents surveyed agree with him.
Estrella Foothills also has a closed campus. That leaves Buckeye Union, the district's oldest school, as the only one with an open-campus lunch policy.
But that may change.
The district staff is working on a proposal that would modify the policy. A change could mean anything from closing the campus to simply setting new guidelines for students leaving for lunch.
The issue has been highly debated for some time.
As students leave to grab lunch at nearby spots like Subway or Sonic, officials worry about their safety. The students sometimes must cross Maricopa County 85, a busy road that cuts through the center of Buckeye.
TUCSON
Amphi and its sister district schools, Ironwood Ridge and Canyon Del Oro, are among a dwindling number of schools that still allow students to go off campus during lunchtime. And somewhat ironically, all three schools were spotlighted after the deadly rollover crash on Tucson's northwest side last week that cost the lives of three young people. Emily Bowman, 16, was a cheerleader at Canyon Del Oro; Ernesto Ybarra Jr., 16, was a football player at Ironwood Ridge; and Aaron Mohr, 20, was a graduate of Amphi High.
Those three died and four others suffered injuries ranging from serious to critical when a van driven by Ybarra went out of control and rolled, ejecting several of the passengers and coming to rest on one of them. Police say that alcohol was definitely involved in the crash, which occurred when Ybarra was going at least 60 mph in a 25 mph zone. The crash took place at around 4 a.m., several hours past curfew for five of the seven people in the van.
"It's just horrible," says Patsy Harris, principal at Amphi High. "I'll bet almost everybody at all three high schools knew at least one of those kids. You know, when your judgment gets impaired, it only takes a split-second to ruin or even end your life."
Where open campuses used to be the norm 10 or 15 years ago, an assortment of tragedies, threats of legal action and, in some cases, simple moments of common sense have caused most schools to close their gates during school hours.
There was a time in the 1990s when Salpointe High School was losing an average of one student per year to traffic fatalities. Its campus is now closed during lunchtime.
The Sunnyside schools, Desert View and Sunnyside, have had closed campuses for many years. The only students who are allowed to leave are those who have partial schedules and/or afternoon jobs. Those who leave campus are not allowed back on.
Catalina Foothills High is a closed campus, as are all nine high schools in TUSD. For some TUSD schools, like Sabino, at the base of the Catalina Mountains, and Cholla, on the far-west side of town, it has always been impractical to allow students to leave because there were no fast-food places within miles of either school.
Pueblo has also long been a closed campus, and now the others have fallen in line as well. Said one on-site TUSD administrator, who asked not to be identified, "It just makes sense. Lord knows it would be a terrible tragedy to lose a student under those circumstances, but it's almost a sure bet that the school or the district would get sued for having the policy that allowed the kid to go off-campus in the first place."
While the trend is toward closing campuses, it's not universal. Flowing Wells High School allows seniors with 20 credits and at least a 3.0 grade-point average to go off-campus at lunch. Green Fields Country Day allows seniors off-campus during lunch, while St. Gregory College Prep is a closed campus.
Somewhat surprisingly, the Marana schools, Mt. View and Marana, still allow juniors and seniors to leave campus for lunch. Marana High suffered one of the grisliest lunchtime traffic fatalities in area history a few years back and is miles from any food outlet. While Mt. View students can race down to Ina and Thornydale roads for lunch, Marana High students only have a Chevron station and a mini-mart (with a Subway sandwich outlet) near the interstate, and both of those are a considerable distance from the school.
#4 We'll call #4 WISE AND FATHERLY JOE
someday soon, someone or some form of governing body will tread on you, and they will use something like this as a precedence......then you will understand.
THANKS JOE COMING FROM YOU, YOU REALLY HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THAT MEANS TO ME
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Joewrites4rights
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 05:17 pm |
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rgd....I forgot to answer some other questions of yours. If I didn't have kids in PUSD would I still put up this fight? Yes I would, I live here and work here. I believe in community involvement to help create a better place to live, especially when it come to sticking up for our rights. I regret not being aware of the other board decisions that lead up to this issue when my kids were younger.
I am not "crying" kidnapping. If you look at my post regarding that comment, along with unlawful incarceration, I was simply showing "how" this policy does not follow the law....which all governing board policies must.
You have not answered my question of why you closers are so quick to tell me "if you don't like it, you should home school, send your kids to private school, or move!!!" I am wondering why you people would say that....when none of you did any of those things when the policy of last year obviously offended you all so much. You all could have home schooled, private schooled, or moved as well. Those type of comments clearly show that the closers have closed minds and are just trying to skirt the issues at hand. None of you have answered any of my questions about how disallowing students to leave after 1st or 2nd hour and come back for a later class is in the students best interest. Or how allowing students to race across town to their next class at another school is "safe" and OK to be tardy everyday?
To answer your question about how many places can a student go to for lunch and get back in time? At SMHS it's 16. My daughters (even sometimes with me) have had lunch at 16 different places....and never got back late. In fact, most all students get back on time....we discovered that on average over 97% of students get back in time....that's an A in anyone's book. Your argument that they don't have enough time is your opinion....not a fact.
Joe Bernier
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