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rdg7359
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 01:18 pm |
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You can now add another $20 billion in cash for yet another credit card company, Citigroup.
Outraged yet?
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rdg7359
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 05:21 pm |
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Homer Landreth wrote: Ok, let's see. $300 billion to the Banks supposedly to use to help people avoid forclosure. Bailed out Bear Sterns because the catasthrophic effect it would have on the investment market if they failed, tens of Billions to AIG, $700 Billion to the Banks to buy "bad paper" real estate loans. All the above with a "don't ask don't tell" requirement from Congress. Comes now the Automotive Industry wanting a $25 Billion Bridge Loan to avoid millions of layoffs. Well what happens now, (other than the Stock Market dropping 800 points in two days). well, Congress admonishes the Auto Industry for being reckless and doesn't act on the loan request because they want to see a "Business Plan". The first pathetic joke about that(remember, the joke is on YOU and at YOUR expense) is where was the demand for a "Business Plan" when we were shelling out Billions for Bear Sterns, and AIG, and the rest of "Palsons Pals" and former "Working Buds". Anyway, "Business Plan" or not, Paulson has changed his mind three times on what to do with the money. How much of the "bad paper" that supposedly started this mess has been bought to date? I'll give you a hint, it starts with a Z and ends with an O. The second pathetic joke is the admonition about the Auto Industry failing to market products that are energy efficient and help reduce this Nations dependency on foreigh oil. Oh, Cripes A Mighty this is coming from an administration and a Congress that put limits on rebates for Hybrid Cars, and denied the State of California the right to implement stricter emissions controls and require manufacturers to boost requirements for better gas mileage for cars. Additionally, this is coming from a free and unregulated market advocating Congress who are now saying that they are chagrined that the manufacturers didn't quit manufacturing the behemoth SUVs and Hummers, and Hemi Engine cars that "we the people" were demanding, and make more of the cars that they did not even support with a tax break. Finally, exactly who in Congress knows what a business plan is and can even determine if it is good or bad? Remember this is the same Congress who has spent us into multiple trillions of dollars of debt, and then wanted to cut taxes to help pay off that debt. We are such suckers for putting up with this, and it is amazing that there isn't an absolute taxpayer revolt over it all.
I have been wondering and asking the same questions! Where is the outrage?
As far as the auto industry goes, there is only the Big 2 not the Big 3, Honda and Toyota! At the very least they build their cars in the USA unlike the Big 3 that has farmed out most of there production to Canada and Mexico. There has to be stipulations when it comes to yet another bail out with my tax dollars. At the very least GM needs to get rid of GMC. There is no reason to build the same exact vehicles under 2 different names.
The best one of all is that the Salvation Army is now taking credit cards for donations. Isn't it the credit card companies that are also at the root of this economic issue. If you cannot afford to donate cash that you have in hand, then you should not be able to charge it!
Here is an idea, that could save billions...Instead of bailing the banks out at the tune of $300 Billion, why not give every household a million dollars? There are 300 million people in this country and less than that if you break it down by households. I know this sounds insane, but this entire bailout package is insane and an absolute joke!
Last edited on Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 11:46 pm by rdg7359
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Homer Landreth
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 05:02 am |
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| Ok, let's see. $300 billion to the Banks supposedly to use to help people avoid forclosure. Bailed out Bear Sterns because the catasthrophic effect it would have on the investment market if they failed, tens of Billions to AIG, $700 Billion to the Banks to buy "bad paper" real estate loans. All the above with a "don't ask don't tell" requirement from Congress. Comes now the Automotive Industry wanting a $25 Billion Bridge Loan to avoid millions of layoffs. Well what happens now, (other than the Stock Market dropping 800 points in two days). well, Congress admonishes the Auto Industry for being reckless and doesn't act on the loan request because they want to see a "Business Plan". The first pathetic joke about that(remember, the joke is on YOU and at YOUR expense) is where was the demand for a "Business Plan" when we were shelling out Billions for Bear Sterns, and AIG, and the rest of "Palsons Pals" and former "Working Buds". Anyway, "Business Plan" or not, Paulson has changed his mind three times on what to do with the money. How much of the "bad paper" that supposedly started this mess has been bought to date? I'll give you a hint, it starts with a Z and ends with an O. The second pathetic joke is the admonition about the Auto Industry failing to market products that are energy efficient and help reduce this Nations dependency on foreigh oil. Oh, Cripes A Mighty this is coming from an administration and a Congress that put limits on rebates for Hybrid Cars, and denied the State of California the right to implement stricter emissions controls and require manufacturers to boost requirements for better gas mileage for cars. Additionally, this is coming from a free and unregulated market advocating Congress who are now saying that they are chagrined that the manufacturers didn't quit manufacturing the behemoth SUVs and Hummers, and Hemi Engine cars that "we the people" were demanding, and make more of the cars that they did not even support with a tax break. Finally, exactly who in Congress knows what a business plan is and can even determine if it is good or bad? Remember this is the same Congress who has spent us into multiple trillions of dollars of debt, and then wanted to cut taxes to help pay off that debt. We are such suckers for putting up with this, and it is amazing that there isn't an absolute taxpayer revolt over it all.
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Homer Landreth
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Posted: Fri Nov 14th, 2008 09:51 pm |
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AIG gets more of your money, Banks get more of your money and just use it to buy other banks and to give executive bonuses and shareholder dividends and in general just sit on it, 60,000 more home forcloseures, on and on and on. The $700 Billion is spoken for three times over and now they want us to sponsor the Automotive industry the same way and American Express wants money from you too. Where did all the tax "Bailout" money go? Here is another article that is telling you that we the taxpayers are like Nero, playing our fiddle while Rome Burns.
Go to http://www.sandiegomagazine.com/media/San-Diego-Magazine/October-2008/50-Trillion-Worth-of-Obscurity/
and see where your tax dollars are going and to see why the first "Bailout" isn't bailing out anyone and why there still is no credit available, and why your 401k won't even be enough kindling to start a fire. Then get mad and write your newly elected congress person about something meaningful, quit bitching about whether Obama is going to raise your taxes a few bucks or take your "Boom Boom Guns". Tell your Congress person that you know you got fleeced out of billions of dollars and you won't sponsor any more of it and you want the first amount back with interest.
Last edited on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 02:57 am by Homer Landreth
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Peoria Dad
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Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 05:53 pm |
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areyounotkidding me wrote: It's the battle of the mental titans - Double Digit IQ vs. Peoria Dad
Well, we're certainly speaking over your head.
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Uncle Fire
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 12:43 am |
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rks1 wrote: WORSE than the current administration has done.
Not sure what your point is on you tax chart. Looks like you're agreeing with GWB? But, what do I know......I apparently have a double digit IQ.
I'm not questioning your IQ.
1st comment was on overall mess this administration has gotten us into...response to your comment. You're worried about going to the toilet-- yet we're pretty much there. In the bowl at least. 8-)
2nd- was back on topic about redistribution of wealth.
Net-- upper middle class and above pay the vast majority of taxes
People who pay ZERO taxes tend to be low wage earners (e.g. poverty level)
"W" lowered taxes to the extent that dollar-wise, higher wage earners got bigger DOLLAR reduction in taxes. But upper 1 or 2 quintiles pay the vast majority of the taxes anyway. Yhose tax cuts also added alot of people to the list of those who pay ZERO (or have negative taxes).
I'm generally ok with the Bush tax cuts-- my issue is that we didn't get the cut in SPENDING. Hence our $9 Trillion+ debt.
Last edited on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 12:46 am by Uncle Fire
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rks1
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 12:33 am |
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Uncle Fire wrote: rks1 wrote: I 'hope" that this new administration doesn't drive this country straight into the toilet.
Kind of like what the current administration has done???
By the way-- some interesting stats for you people...
Top 50% of earners
Pay 97% of the taxes
Earn 87.5% of AGI (read: they pay more than fair share of taxes)
Earn $32k or more (AGI)
Top 25% of earners
Pays 86% of taxes
Earns 68% of total AGI (again: pay MORE than fair share of taxes)
Earns $65k or more.
Bottom 50% of earners
Pays 3% of the taxes
Earn 12.5% of total AGI
Earns $32k or less
About 32% of households pay ZERO taxes.
92% of those guys make under $20k.
About 3.4 million returns (6%) make between $20k-75k.
You can thank Bush tax cuts for some (alot) of it. In 2001 and 2003, the tax cuts broadened the Child Tax Credit. Added the 10% rate (which helped EVERYBODY) and other things..
WORSE than the current administration has done.
Not sure what your point is on you tax chart. Looks like you're agreeing with GWB? But, what do I know......I apparently have a double digit IQ.
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Uncle Fire
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 10:35 pm |
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rks1 wrote: I 'hope" that this new administration doesn't drive this country straight into the toilet.
Kind of like what the current administration has done???
By the way-- some interesting stats for you people...
Top 50% of earners
Pay 97% of the taxes
Earn 87.5% of AGI (read: they pay more than fair share of taxes)
Earn $32k or more (AGI)
Top 25% of earners
Pays 86% of taxes
Earns 68% of total AGI (again: pay MORE than fair share of taxes)
Earns $65k or more.
Bottom 50% of earners
Pays 3% of the taxes
Earn 12.5% of total AGI
Earns $32k or less
About 32% of households pay ZERO taxes.
92% of those guys make under $20k.
About 3.4 million returns (6%) make between $20k-75k.
You can thank Bush tax cuts for some (alot) of it. In 2001 and 2003, the tax cuts broadened the Child Tax Credit. Added the 10% rate (which helped EVERYBODY) and other things..
Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 10:40 pm by Uncle Fire
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rks1
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 01:48 am |
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areyounotkidding me wrote: It's the battle of the mental titans - Double Digit IQ vs. Peoria Dad
Hey! Mommy gave you your computer privileges back! Yaa for you!!Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 01:51 am by rks1
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areyounotkidding me
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Posted: Sat Nov 8th, 2008 05:46 am |
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| It's the battle of the mental titans - Double Digit IQ vs. Peoria Dad
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rks1
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Posted: Sat Nov 8th, 2008 03:31 am |
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Peoria Dad wrote:
That's right. You blew, you own it.
What's that supposed to mean?
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Peoria Dad
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 10:32 pm |
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rks1 wrote: Typical democrat. Your side had absolutely NOTHING to do with the past 28 years, I suppose?
That's right. You blew, you own it.
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rks1
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 08:14 pm |
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Paula13 wrote: I was feeling IMMENSELY better a mere 12 SECONDS after the election was called and I expect to feel 12 times better with each passing week - exponentially, that's pretty phenomenal. And just thinking about being rid of Bush/Cheney makes me feel the need for at least 12 giddy smiley faces 
Well, we'll see if you still feel that way when we're all in the un-employment line.
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rks1
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 08:13 pm |
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Peoria Dad wrote: rks1 wrote: well, we'll see if you're still feeling that way 12 months from now.
Typical republican. Not only can you not own up to your failure, you want to see a fix in 12 months after you took 28 years to screw this up. The only one drinking the kool-aide here is you.
Typical democrat. Your side had absolutely NOTHING to do with the past 28 years, I suppose?
Have another glass, Peoria Dad (then pray for the future of your kids).
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Paula13
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 07:36 pm |
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I was feeling IMMENSELY better a mere 12 SECONDS after the election was called and I expect to feel 12 times better with each passing week - exponentially, that's pretty phenomenal. And just thinking about being rid of Bush/Cheney makes me feel the need for at least 12 giddy smiley faces
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Peoria Dad
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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rks1 wrote: well, we'll see if you're still feeling that way 12 months from now.
Typical republican. Not only can you not own up to your failure, you want to see a fix in 12 months after you took 28 years to screw this up. The only one drinking the kool-aide here is you.
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rks1
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 05:20 pm |
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Paula13 wrote: About 8 years of Bush/Cheney.
well, we'll see if you're still feeling that way 12 months from now.Last edited on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 05:21 pm by rks1
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Paula13
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 03:23 pm |
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About 8 years of Bush/Cheney.
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rks1
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 03:19 pm |
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Paula13 wrote: Boy, the world really has tilted - I'm agreeing with Peoria Dad 
"President-elect Obama": It's truly a glorious, beautiful day in America today
Tilted left......yeah, that's really great..........how much kool-aid does it take to make someone post that many smiley-faces?Last edited on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 05:20 pm by rks1
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rks1
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Posted: Fri Nov 7th, 2008 03:18 pm |
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areyounotkidding me wrote: WE'VE HAD EIGHT LONG YEARS OF HOPELESSNESS - KIND OF NICE TO HAVE HOPE - AND SOMEONE THAT CAN DELIVER A SPEECH....
"Hope" is a word that seems to be easily passed around. I'd like to know what exactly it means. I 'hope" that this new administration doesn't drive this country straight into the toilet.
Ah, yeah....someone that can give a speech. That's SUCH an important qualification for the office of the President.
Last edited on Fri Nov 7th, 2008 05:19 pm by rks1
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areyounotkidding me
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 10:22 pm |
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| WE'VE HAD EIGHT LONG YEARS OF HOPELESSNESS - KIND OF NICE TO HAVE HOPE - AND SOMEONE THAT CAN DELIVER A SPEECH....
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bigwavedave
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 08:31 pm |
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areyounotkidding me wrote: His speech last night reminded me of Kennedy's speeches......he gives me hope.....
I too have hope. Hope that after he is done I will have enough CHANGE left to buy milk and cookies.
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areyounotkidding me
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:47 pm |
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| His speech last night reminded me of Kennedy's speeches......he gives me hope..... Last edited on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:49 pm by areyounotkidding me
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Paula13
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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Boy, the world really has tilted - I'm agreeing with Peoria Dad
"President-elect Obama": It's truly a glorious, beautiful day in America today
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activepeorian
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:42 pm |
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| We'll see...................
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Peoria Dad
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:10 pm |
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activepeorian wrote: Aren't the dems a majority in Congress??????????????????????? Don't they pass policy, laws, budgets or has the President suddenly become the only person in charge in Washington?
Oh, and who was alarmed at the lending policies of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and suggested intervention before this fiasco set us down the merry path of economic meltdown?????
I am sick to death of politics and wish we could just sweep ALL out of Washington and start all over again with the way the founding fathers invisioned.
You have to admit this redistribution of wealth is taking it literally.
Just remember, in the end, if this comes to pass, you get what you wish for.................
Yes, but only for the past two years. Before that the GOP controlled congress for 10 years and went on an unbridled deregulation binge that not only brought about the current financial crisis, but also the savings and loan mess (Remember the Keating Five).
Fortunately we have elected democrats to straighten this out. The last time they were in charge, we had a balanced budget and a surplus, and they will do it again.
Last edited on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 07:10 pm by Peoria Dad
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Homer Landreth
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Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 05:32 pm |
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The hidden truth on where your "Bail Out" money went is something that exceeds the 7.2 Billion that is now budgeted for Banks Executive and CEO bonuses, and the 175 scheduled $250,000 to $500,000 posh Spa and Golf junkets for the employees of AIG. It also debunks what you were told as to why the Credit squeeze ocurred which caused some of this misery. The problems with Banks, Mortgages, Insurance anuities and general Credit squeeze was a little thing called Credit Default Swaps. The definition of a CDS from Wickipedia is:
Credit default swaps allow investors to speculate on changes in an entity's credit quality, since generally CDS spreads will increase as credit-worthiness declines, and decline as credit-worthiness increases. Therefore an investor might buy CDS protection on a company in order to speculate that a company is about to default. Alternatively, an investor might sell protection if they think that a company is not going to default.
For example, a hedge fund believes that XYZ Corp will soon default on its debt. Therefore it buys $10 million worth of CDS protection for 2 years from ABC Bank, with XYZ Corp as the reference entity, at a spread of 500 basis points (=5%) per annum.
- If XYZ Corp does indeed default after, say, one year, then the hedge fund will have paid $500,000 to ABC Bank, but will then receive $10 million (assuming zero recovery rate), thereby making a tidy profit.
- However, if XYZ Corp does not default, then the CDS contract will run for 2 years, and the hedge fund will have ended up paying $1 million, without any return, thereby making a loss.
The above definition refers to Corporations in the example, however the CDS can be on a single business loan, a single mortgage, or a package of mortgages or a package of business loans. What is really going on is nothing other that a Banking and Investment business eqivalent of a Las Vegas Craps Table. One Bsiness entity is ponyiing up an ante (bet) that the other business or the debt instrument will default (in Vegas terms "crap out" on the roll of business life). It is nothing other than a big expensive Casino game with your money.
The CDS market EXCEEDS the legitimate business dealings of a bank and the investment industry. By how much you ask? Well the nearest estimate is that there is almost 80 TRILLION Dollars of Banking and Investment Industry money comitted to CDS. So now enter the mortgage mess; But Wait ! didn't the talking heads say that the Credit Squeeze was happening late last year and early this year? Weren't businesses lines of credit drying up almost a year ago? Yes they were. But wasn't the mortgage mess of crisis proportions only earlier this year? Yes it was. But then you ask, why is the mortgage mess being blamed for the current economic crisis, when the credit squeeze was happening 6 months before the recognized time frame for mortgage defaults reaching crisis proportion? The answer is the 80 Trillion CDS market. The Industry had so much money tied up in servicing the CDS market which, as illustrated above is only internal to the gamblers in the "Casino", that they didn't have any money left to loan out to legitimate businesses and customers. They ran out of money to use external to the "Casino". Ok, now with no credit lines, businesses start failing and the CDS has to be paid off due to the default of the failed business. The CDS being held by the gambler, (excuse me, an investor) on the business that failed uses money but only inside the "Casino". But now we reach a point where it can't be paid because the gambler doesn't have any money because he is paying off the CDS he lost and now people are losing their jobs because businesses are cutting back employees and now they can't make their mortgage payments. Now the mortgage mess comes into the picture and what happens is that there is one watershed after another of entities Crapping Out on their CDS and everyone is in a world of debt with nothing to use for money becaues they have shut legitimate business and personal borrowing out of their "Casino" (remember we are talking about 80 TRILLION dollars here.) So, now you bail out Bear Sterns, Leaman Bros is a sacrificial lamb just to make it look like a "free market" (puke!) excuse me. Next you bail out AIG, next the government fosters a defunct bank being bought at fire sale value and you the taxpayer via the FDIC picks up the tab for the rest.
Now comes the "Big Bailout", the $700 Billion one. We are told that it absolutely has to happen because total economic collapse will ocurr. Well everyone hung on through the first rejection of the bailout, long enough for the right amount of tax percs to go to the right people to the tune of $150 Million Dollars and it passed.(did you ever ask why the wooden arrow manufacturers needed millions of dollars of tax breaks and why the bank bailout bill should be held hostage until they get it and why you should fund it??). Anyway now we are here in the present. The credit market is better, but wait; you say credit is still tight, what happened to the bailout money? They said that the $700 HUGE would be loaned out and credit would flow again, right? Well no, WRONG! The credit is not flowing because the Banks and Investment Industry is only using it to service their "Casino" debt. They are paying off their CDS debts with your bailout money (also, when the "Casino" money comes in, the balance sheet looks good, and that triggers a hefty multi-million bonus to the Bank executives, paid with your money, Thank You Very Much.) In the infinite wisdom of the government non-regulators, there was never a REQUIREMENT to loan the bailout money out to businesses and people for mortgages etc. So there has been no change in the way anyone is "doing business". The "Casino" is still open for business and is being funded with your money. So Mr. and Ms taxpayer you have been bamboozeled and screwed out of Billions of dollars that are doing nothing but keeping the Credit Default Swap "Casino" operating. So when you go to Vote tomorrow, while waiting, think about the Billions of dollars of tax money that is funding the elite "Casino" and then think about the tax promises made in all the the campaign speeches, and then see if you can think of who (other than you) will pay the bill for the Billions of dollars of bailout. I bet you don't come up with a name. Hey! I wonder if I can take that bet to the "Casino" and sell it as a CDS and make a little of my tax dollars back. Yea ! that's the ticket!
Last edited on Tue Nov 4th, 2008 02:41 am by Homer Landreth
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Uncle Fire
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:56 pm |
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You obviously missed the FIRST vote on the bail-out plan. It didn't pass b/c republicans blocked it. Dems have a majority but not enough that repubs can't block things. And they did at first.
Again, the PRESIDENT (a republican) buddied up with the dems to make it happen-- not the repubs.
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activepeorian
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 07:01 pm |
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Aren't the dems a majority in Congress??????????????????????? Don't they pass policy, laws, budgets or has the President suddenly become the only person in charge in Washington?
Oh, and who was alarmed at the lending policies of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and suggested intervention before this fiasco set us down the merry path of economic meltdown?????
I am sick to death of politics and wish we could just sweep ALL out of Washington and start all over again with the way the founding fathers invisioned.
You have to admit this redistribution of wealth is taking it literally.
Just remember, in the end, if this comes to pass, you get what you wish for.................
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Uncle Fire
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 06:46 pm |
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How about the redistribution of wealth that THIS REPUBLICAN adminsitration initiated. 800BB+ with pork added.
In the Bush tax cuts, while percentages of cuts were fairly close, the dollar figures top earners got in tax cuts were huge. Granted they pay the majority of the taxes but let's be honest, doling out pieces of the pie happen with BOTH parties.
You people need to give it a rest.
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activepeorian
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 05:23 pm |
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I read this on a local message board and I had to pass this along. Not sure if it is true but it is interesting....
In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie. I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient needed the money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
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