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Bambi
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:32 pm |
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http://www.southeastvalleyoptimists.org
I didn't notice before, but go into the site and check out the pics that were taken at the event at my place this past weekend. Notice the campfire. And notice Mayor Sanders at the DJ's post, along with some others we know. If you see a baby carriage in the pics, then that was Chris Clark and family. And the bike...the little girl had to be pried off the seat in order to take it to her home. The view? From my front porch....a daily event that I get to capture...sitting there and observing the handiwork of someone far greater than you and I. I am so thankful I live next to the mountains.....what an inspiration.
"good times"
Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:33 pm by Bambi
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Bambi
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:53 pm |
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No. I am done with this Issue. We will all have to keep abreast, via contacting the County, as to what's on the horizon down there. Too much grief for me. Besides, I've got alot of work ahead of me.
The San Tan Cleanup is the 23rd. These people who have arranged it are working their behinds off to pull if off. Our group of Optimists from this area....mainly kids....have signed up to clean up the Combs area. Now, while over there, I am going to jump over to the school and attend the Pinal County Workshop, so if you see a fake blond ole lady at the school....don't call the cops...it's just me.
Then, on the 24th, the next day, Sunshine Acres, a children's home in N.E. Mesa, is putting on a benefit (a Barbeque) to raise money for their children's needs. The Optimists will be there to assist them. When I say Optimists....I mean our children and adults who supervise them.
For more updates on events coming up, check out
http://www.Southeastvalleyoptimists.org
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starleen
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:43 am |
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| Back to topic, now that we've had a group hug: Bambi, any updates on this issue? I can't find the wheat among the chaff in this thread, but seems like you were lined up to pursue more info on the Hunt/Ellsworth corner issues.
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gk
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:08 am |
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no offense taken.
I appreciate levity and pleased to be on the recieving end.
Thanks
oh yea......that was a good one by the way
Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:12 am by gk
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pipeman
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 01:53 am |
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gk, thanks for the pm, and yes I will be your valentine 
I am just teasing ya gk to try and lighten the mood around here. 
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azsunshine
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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starleen wrote: "This is a forum for open discussion of public issues. If you disagree with somebody else's comment, please respond by posting your own. No personal attacks or profanities, please. "
You really are tiresome, gk.
"slow" isn't too bad...hang on it can and has gotten worse. Its hard to get what someone is trying to say on the internet in some posts. Its hard to follow the "thought". I remember one poster (can't remember the screen name-only comes out when the issue heats up) that I could not understand at all.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:51 pm |
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Certainly.
But those are the facts that we need to hear becasue this would be a criminal complaint. Serious stuff!
At any rate associating with the BLC without actually knowing it as a fact is misrepresentative of the facts. If it was just in reading a website , fine........but post it!
By associating it with the BLC in general , that associates me and I refuse to be associated with that, as do other members.
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:53 pm by gk
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:48 pm |
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gk wrote: The truth according to who?
THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO THE FACTS!!!!
WHO WAS IT THAT THREATENED THIS OLD LADY? ONE MAN, TEN MEN, WHO!!!!!!
THAT WOULD BE THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO THE FACTS.
pipeman says he has the posts in archive. THEN POST IT SO WE KNOW!!!!
STOP STALLING!
Leave me out of this. I never said anything about that or commented. I know nothing past what has been stated on this blog. Since I have no first hand knowledge and can't verify anything through independent sources I have said out of that 100%
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:44 pm |
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The truth according to who?
THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO THE FACTS!!!!
WHO WAS IT THAT THREATENED THIS OLD LADY? ONE MAN, TEN MEN, WHO!!!!!!
THAT WOULD BE THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO THE FACTS.
pipeman says he has the posts in archive. THEN POST IT SO WE KNOW!!!!
STOP STALLING!
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:46 pm by gk
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:34 pm |
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gk wrote: so be it........I am trying to get to the truth. If the truth was told I would have no reason to be here.........
now after reading this, I have to refer back to what my 17 year old daughter used to say, "that just made me throw-up in my mouth".
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:33 pm |
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gk wrote: so be it........I am trying to get to the truth. If the truth was told I would have no reason to be here.........
The truth according to who? Gene???????
That may be your problem Gene. You honestly believe you are always correct and the rest of us need to see it your way. Please re-read my previous news flash.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:29 pm |
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| so be it........I am trying to get to the truth. If the truth was told I would have no reason to be here.........
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starleen
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:27 pm |
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"This is a forum for open discussion of public issues. If you disagree with somebody else's comment, please respond by posting your own. No personal attacks or profanities, please. "
You really are tiresome, gk.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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man are you guys slow......
Have you not even looked into Congress and the Senate and what they have been charged with, and have been found guilty of?
Do these people reflect your values and your beliefs?
Can anyone possibly be that naive?
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Ted
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:09 pm |
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I don't understand. So your point is that based on your definition of the government, we should just sit by and let the BLC have their way?
With all due respect, no way.
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:08 pm |
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gk wrote:
How can it be when the representatives refuse to vote their constituancy and instead votes for whoever will give them the most cash and kickbacks. This is what is practiced today and is clearly evident
Now it all makes sense why you are splitting hairs so much. You believe that the entire government is corrupt and therefore not representative of YOUR belief.
Here is the news flash of the day. NOT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU AND YOUR INTERNET CONSPIRACY NUT FRIENDS. This does not mean that the representatives are corrupt. Just means you may not be in the mainstream of public opinion or agreement.
Nothing says you can't have your opinion but does mean that everybody does not have to agree with you. Maybe this is why you believe that the BLC is so pure. You honestly believe that they are always correct there fore must be followed by the elected leaders.
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:34 pm by JJohnson
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2 cents
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:07 pm |
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| Oooops. Republic for which we stand.......
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2 cents
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:06 pm |
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I pledge allegiance to the flag......... and to the Rupublic for which we stand.......
2 cents
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:59 pm |
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The point is that we are a Constitutional Republic and not a true Representative Democracy. There are many forms of Democracy.
When was the last time that you voted for a President or a representative that voted and did what you wanted and voted them in for?
They vote for themselves.
A Constitutional Republic wsa the intent of the Constitution to set up a government that was free of the problems that can arise from a Representative Democracy. A government by the majority can minimalize the the rights of the individual which the Constitution was set up to protect.
The Constitutional Republic is a form a Egalitarianism. A moral and ethical Egalitarianism by virtue of the fact that all men are created egual.
Representative Democracy is a broad form of Egalitarianism as is Communism and other doctrines. These Doctrines are open to government by the majority which can marginalize the rights of the individual.
A Constitutional Republic protects the rights of the individaul.
Is the government as practiced today really a Representative Democracy?
How can it be when the representatives refuse to vote their constituancy and instead votes for whoever will give them the most cash and kickbacks. This is what is practiced today and is clearly evident
The point? A falsehood that is repeated for long enough somehow becomes a fact
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 09:01 pm by gk
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:45 pm |
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| What is your point in this?
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:39 pm |
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http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/NotDemocracy.html
http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/Are_we_a_Constitutional_Republic.html
In 18th century historical usages, especially when considering the works of the Founding Fathers of the United States, the word "democracy" was associated with radical egalitarianism and was often defined to mean what we today call direct democracy. In the same historical context, the word "republic" was used to refer to what we now call representative democracy.[45] For example, James Madison, in Federalist Paper No. 10, advocates a constitutional republic over a democracy to protect the individual from the majority.[46] Madison was seeking to distinguish between a direct democracy and a representative democracy, but his choice to do so using the words "democracy" and "republic" had no basis in prior usage of the words. [47]
In contemporary western usage, the term "democracy" usually refers to a government chosen by the people, whether it is direct or representative. [1] The term "republic" has many different meanings but today often refers to a representative democracy with an elected head of state, such as a President, serving for a limited term, in contrast to states with a hereditary monarch as a head of state, even if these states also are representative democracies with an elected head of government such as a Prime Minister. Therefore, today the term is used by states which are quite different from the earlier use of the term, such as the former German Democratic Republic and the USSR.
Note that the US Constitution states that the power comes from the people "We the people..." However, some argue that unlike a pure democracy, in a constitutional republic, citizens in the US are not governed by the majority of the people but by the rule of law.[48] Constitutional Republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the threat of mobocracy thereby protecting minority groups from the tyranny of the majority by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population. Thomas Jefferson stated that majority rights cannot exist if individual rights do not.[49] The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who govern within limits of overarching constitutional law rather than the popular vote or government having power to deny any inalienable right.[50] Moreover, the power of elected representatives is also checked by prohibitions against any single individual having legislative, judicial, and executive powers so that basic constitutional law is extremely difficult to change. John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men."
The original framers of the United States Constitution were notably cognizant of what they perceived as a danger of majority rule in oppressing freedom and liberty of the individual. The framers carefully created the institutions within the Constitution and the United States Bill of Rights. They kept what they believed were the best elements of majority rule. But they were mitigated by a constitution with protections for individual liberty, a separation of powers, and a layered federal structure. Inalienable rights refers to a set of human rights that are not awarded by human power, and cannot be surrendered.[51] The Constitution of the United States was written to protect the inalienable rights of citizens from potential excesses of government, even if taken by majority rule. Inalienable rights are not granted by government, but by nature.[52]
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:28 pm |
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gk wrote: BTW>...we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy
Exactly ... Thanks for making my point. We elected people to make these decisions for us, not to delegate it to a group of biased and unaccountable individuals.
We are actually a representative democracy
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:29 pm by JJohnson
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:21 pm |
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but maybe that is the monster that you have so conviently created with your lies.
You just can't buy that kind of publicity. Priceless
counter intuitive to democracy. BTW>...we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 08:31 pm by gk
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:13 pm |
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Nothing, and I mean nothing, should be "referred" to the BLC or any other group for pre-approval. That is what the job of p&z is. Everybody should have equal access at the public meetings to voice their concerns or commendations. By referring things to the BLC or any other group prior to public comment only puts the fix on the issue. The decision is made before anybody even knows about it. That is not right. P&Z should do its own job and follow the rules. Allowing the BLC or any other group to have an opportunity to endorse or sink a project is unfair to everyone.
Most zoning issues have a waiting period that allows interested groups or individuals to do some research and air concerns. But to allow select individuals to pre-interview is counter intuitive to democracy.
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:16 pm by JJohnson
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:06 pm |
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not at all reasonable to conclude that.If you really are that interested in the site............get it from pipeman who archived it all.
The website was called NO NEW CITY does that not imply that people that were against becoming a city would be posting there with their views?
And the replies were to rebut the inacuracies and the misrepresentations of the writer Sean. IF someone said things and made accusations toward you that were not true, would you not rebut that false information. What's the high drama here.........?
After giving this issue a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that maybe it is best to let the lies and the misrepresentation go on..........as it stands right now people like (ir or Jjohnson), ted, (pipeman or santanman), have done more to publicize and credit the BLC as being a supremely powerful group that holds great influence and wields a great power over the county.
Businesse's and developments that want to locate here will see that the BLC is a very formidible force to be reconned with, and they will see the inaccuracies and the phony accusations that have been leveled against them come from a very small group of the usual suspects
Thanks guys
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 07:08 pm by gk
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Marine1
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 06:45 pm |
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gk wrote: You can also check on it here but there does not seem to be much that they archived of the site
http://www.archive.org/index.php
You are seriously missing the point here. The FACT is that within hours of the Yahoo group being posted on this forum, the group administrator decided to take it down.
The FACT that a few pages are cached on archive.org or Google means absolutely NOTHING.
What does the admin of that group have to hide? Why would that group been taken offline now? It all seams very suspicious.
What I did see on that site was a person posted a comment that was pro-incorporation. There were no replies to the comment until nearly a month later. Then, Mr. Guerra replied and was immediately followed by you and Anne.
It's reasonable to conclude that Mr. Ed. read the post, contacted his cohorts who then ganged up on the original poster in an attempt to intimidate them. It is also reasonable to conclude that this behavior is indicative of how the BLC operates and intimidating and elderly lady is not outside of the realm of possibility.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:44 pm |
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You can also check on it here but there does not seem to be much that they archived of the site
http://www.archive.org/index.php
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:36 pm |
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Sorry, I did not check any of the links, I just saw that the first page came up. After trying the links I see that they are gone
Anyway pipeman has all of the data anyway if anyone is interested
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:30 pm |
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| http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:aDgdB4WwIpoJ:groups.yahoo.com/group/nonewcity/message/1991+nonewcity&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:22 pm |
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1. go to google and type in nonewcity and this is the result you will get
nonewcity : Message: Letters of interest
nonewcity: San Tan City Opponents. ... nonewcity · San Tan City Opponents. Home · Messages. Members Only; Post; Files; Photos; Database; Polls ...
groups.yahoo.com/group/nonewcity/message/1991 - 41k - 23 hours ago - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
2. Click on the link at the bottom that says Cached
3. The cached site will be there
For some
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:29 pm by gk
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gsbill
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:18 pm |
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gk wrote:
Come on guys ....get real.
The cache is still up, I checked. Stop making silly stuff up. I'm embarrassed for you
That site is not up. Reset your cookies. You browser saves stuff. I can open website pages when I am offline because of it. The site is gone. I saw when it was up and I see now that its gone.
Post the link where you see it.
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Ted
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 05:17 pm |
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Yep, I just checked as well. The old Yahoo nonewcity discussion board is now dead. Amazing how that disappeared the exact same day that it was mentioned on here. Yes, Kristen and Ed, we are on to you. This is very typical of your usual tactics of trying to hide and keep your actions secret.
Fortunately there are sane people out there who have a full record of everything that the BLC has done on that site. Nice try, but you have to stop running and hiding soon.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:32 pm |
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Come on guys ....get real.
The cache is still up, I checked. Stop making silly stuff up. I'm embarrassed for you
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 04:17 pm |
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JJohnson wrote: gk wrote: I had thought that it was taken down years ago but maybe it was not. But what does it matter, if you printed out all of the posts then you should have no complaints.
It is not us that matter ... We already know what it says. It is the others that need to know the truth of the BLC ... Just another attempt to hide truth and to be deceptive.
JJ, you hit that right on the head. It amazes me how fast it disapperaded when I brought it out of the cellar for all to see.
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 01:33 pm |
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gk wrote: I had thought that it was taken down years ago but maybe it was not. But what does it matter, if you printed out all of the posts then you should have no complaints.
It is not us that matter ... We already know what it says. It is the others that need to know the truth of the BLC ... Just another attempt to hide truth and to be deceptive.
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Bambi
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 01:31 pm |
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I know I'm not crazy BW. thanks for the support. I will say I had a great sleep last night.
I would like to encourage all of you to attend that meeting tonite at the Feedbag, that JMF posted on here. Opportunities to meet alot of fellow Pinalers and also to hear a "lesson" on leadership. Great opportunity to tune up on your skills.
Also, I would like to thank Mr. John Filmore, who is running for the Legislature, for donating the prize he won at the Optimist event here; back to the Optimist, on behalf of the children....and for offering his future services.
And I would like to thank the poster on here that chooses to remain anonymous, for that wonderful bike he donated. Thank you. You made a child happy.
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 02:50 am |
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blackwidow wrote: That website was up full of content a few hours ago. I was there reading it. Here is what it looks like now..You are not losing your mind Bambi. Somebody took down that site.
Thanks BW.... I could not believe that someone would try and tell me I don't know what I am talking about or what I was re-reading or am I sure that it wasn't a cache, as if I do not know anything about puters. It is so very odd that it would mysteriously disappear after it was brought to everyone attention. HMMMMM wonder why the administrator took it down all of a sudden.... wonder who that admin was for that site??? Oh that's right, it was Eddie G and the misses, or formally known as tonadoblanco69 and desertspringsranch.
gk, no worries here. I do have what I say I have
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 02:32 am |
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I had thought that it was taken down years ago but maybe it was not. But what does it matter, if you printed out all of the posts then you should have no complaints.
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blackwidow
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 02:19 am |
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That website was up full of content a few hours ago. I was there reading it. Here is what it looks like now..You are not losing your mind Bambi. Somebody took down that site.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 02:04 am |
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so how did you know there was a mob of people that went to the old ladies house?Do you Know them?
Did someone tell you that?
Did you hear it from her?
or was it just a rumour you heard from someone and take it as fact?
This is an important issue. If that did happen it WAS NOT associated with the BLC.
And if it was just a rumour it deserves to be put to rest so that other people who hear it DO NOT TAKE IT AS FACT!!
Does that not seems reasonable?
And I can tell you for a fact it was NOT a lady named Denton. I know her.
On that website you say you read........is it possible that you were looking at a cached document? Just guessing
Last edited on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 02:12 am by gk
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 01:51 am |
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| bull crap, I was just on there last night re-reading the old funny business and now today it says there is no such group.
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 01:46 am |
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Now just what is odd about that?
That was taken down years ago. No high strangeness. Simply taken down because it was no longer needed
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 01:43 am |
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Oh now that is some funny business. I posted the BLC website nonewcity and incredibly now if you click on link it says there is no group called that. I sure am glad that I have printed out all 2450 plus messages from that blog, along with names and email addresses.
What are you guys afraid of? The truth to come out about you?
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2 cents
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 12:55 am |
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Bambi, where does or how does Wolfswinkel fit into all of this?
2 cents
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gk
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 12:55 am |
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That is not a dark sky issue, it's a money issue.
Dark skies does not mean no lights, it means no lights shining up into the skies. Directed lighting and proper shielding and lighting
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croche
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Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 12:23 am |
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It is funny you say that because I live in Copper Basin. We are not the only neighborhood; San Tan Heights is one of the exceptions that actually has a few street lights.
We need lights along Hunt Hwy, Gantzel, Ironwood, etc. too.
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gk
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:58 pm |
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Don't know where you live, but we have street lights in San Tan Heights.
Copper Basin was too cheap to put in streetlights
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croche
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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gk wrote: Supporting the business is not the issue. Most of us are happy that it's there.
The issue is the noise! That is the issue
Shouldn't the issues have been addressed when the zoning was being done? Maybe I'm being naive but I don't really know too much about the issue other than the ordinance is ancient. Dale Bell is a small business owner and in my opinion our county needs to pick its battles. Is this an issue that really deserves as much press as it has received? This is a petty issue. There aren't that many people bothered by the noise; if there were this would have ended long ago.
Our dark skies ordinance needs to go to; it won't until a kid is killed at night because no one can see him. Because we all know reducing light pollution is more important than personal safety. How much time/money would be saved if we had street lights in our neighborhoods? It is pathetic how some of the laws in this county (some of the people too) are so archaic.
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gk
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:02 pm |
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Supporting the business is not the issue. Most of us are happy that it's there.
The issue is the noise! That is the issue
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croche
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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SORRY TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION LATE BUT:
Whatever happened to majority rules? Why don't we stop arguing and wasting our county's money (our money) and let the market decide? If San Tan Flat is a booming business and makes a profit then it can be assumed that the majority of the people in the area support the establishment. Right? 
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