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pipeman
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Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2008 10:35 pm |
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Bambi wrote: I have emailed Sandie with two things.
First. Someone has moved into the Rurals with Old Greyhound buses. It appears he plans on renovating them. Not allowed. Let's see how quick code enforcement acts upon this. The guy also wants to clear all his land of desert, so he can accommodate those bus's. The construction guy contacted me and told me. I told him not to remove anything. There are State Compliance codes/laws governing that.
I asked Sandie and Code Compliance to please monitor our area and start enforcing these codes, as the blight is bringing down the appraisals and causing contention. I warned her about the guy who was going to blast the side of the mountain....it got blasted.
Second part of the email addressed the formation of a group of citizens out here to overlay the Rurals with drainage engineering and zoning, that fits the particular contour of the land and location. Let's do it now, so we don't have to come back for every case request. I told her I wanted to volunteer as I know the Rurals like the back of my hand....I know whether or not a house can be built on an acre lot, which is comprised of wash, so maybe that should be a two acre site, especially if it involves a split. Engineers should be the final decision makers, from the planners and residents input. But my offers for volunteering go unheeded....and I've lived here for almost 10 years. Yet, Gordon is placed on just about every committee that exists out here and if he's not on it , it's not given recognition.
And now I've been told that Gordon is acting as though he is Bryan Martyns (running for Supervisor) campaign manager, and is telling the press that Bryan is not ready to announce his candidacy yet. Remember, those who are running against Bryan, that Gordon has full access to the County and it's Dept. Heads....serves on about every committee.... just about daily he is down there with his influence, while others are at their jobs, and now he is going to endorse and assist a candidate?
I told Sandie this constant going into zoning hearings to approve these cases on a case by case basis is spot zoning, something I have been telling her should stop along Hunt Hiway for years now. Yet it continues.....a case by case basis is spot zoning.....and now Q.C. has even labeled it that, yet we continue....with a group that is self appointed. Lets get a good cross section of residents out here....and include the planners and engineers as a part of that committee.
.......no answer....but hopeful she will answer. If she doesn't answer, then we will form that group I was speaking about earlier.....and we will exercise our power of the people, provided by our Constitution. We won't wait for appointments....it's our land and we've been fighting over it for too long, which has only brought devision and a lack of progressive moves for the majority's benefit. We need inspiration from leaders....encouragement.....someone to spur us on and pull us together....a human need which we are being deprived of I feel. That's one of the reasons we elect leaders..... to lead us. "Lead us not into Temptation, but Lead us into......"
Why is it I feel as though I am still on the first page of this novel I started 10 years ago?
 Take me to my Leader.
The day that woman is out of office can not come soon enough. Gordon and Bryan huh..... as if it was not reported on here by several people. This is exactly why we can allow this guy to get voted in to that position. Nothing will change around here, with the likes of people like this that have ties to a certain group of people. Just another one who will allow certain people and groups to make decsions that they should not be making, and making decsions that they have no idea as to what it is they are doing, (well they do know what they are doing......... getting what they want and to hel@ with the rest of us). IENOUGH IS ENOUGH PEOPLE. Get your heads out of the sand... I think at election time, we should all write in for Bambi to be the SUP. for our area.......... Go Bambi........
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2008 03:28 pm |
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I have emailed Sandie with two things.
First. Someone has moved into the Rurals with Old Greyhound buses. It appears he plans on renovating them. Not allowed. Let's see how quick code enforcement acts upon this. The guy also wants to clear all his land of desert, so he can accommodate those bus's. The construction guy contacted me and told me. I told him not to remove anything. There are State Compliance codes/laws governing that.
I asked Sandie and Code Compliance to please monitor our area and start enforcing these codes, as the blight is bringing down the appraisals and causing contention. I warned her about the guy who was going to blast the side of the mountain....it got blasted.
Second part of the email addressed the formation of a group of citizens out here to overlay the Rurals with drainage engineering and zoning, that fits the particular contour of the land and location. Let's do it now, so we don't have to come back for every case request. I told her I wanted to volunteer as I know the Rurals like the back of my hand....I know whether or not a house can be built on an acre lot, which is comprised of wash, so maybe that should be a two acre site, especially if it involves a split. Engineers should be the final decision makers, from the planners and residents input. But my offers for volunteering go unheeded....and I've lived here for almost 10 years. Yet, Gordon is placed on just about every committee that exists out here and if he's not on it , it's not given recognition.
And now I've been told that Gordon is acting as though he is Bryan Martyns (running for Supervisor) campaign manager, and is telling the press that Bryan is not ready to announce his candidacy yet. Remember, those who are running against Bryan, that Gordon has full access to the County and it's Dept. Heads....serves on about every committee.... just about daily he is down there with his influence, while others are at their jobs, and now he is going to endorse and assist a candidate?
I told Sandie this constant going into zoning hearings to approve these cases on a case by case basis is spot zoning, something I have been telling her should stop along Hunt Hiway for years now. Yet it continues.....a case by case basis is spot zoning.....and now Q.C. has even labeled it that, yet we continue....with a group that is self appointed. Lets get a good cross section of residents out here....and include the planners and engineers as a part of that committee.
.......no answer....but hopeful she will answer. If she doesn't answer, then we will form that group I was speaking about earlier.....and we will exercise our power of the people, provided by our Constitution. We won't wait for appointments....it's our land and we've been fighting over it for too long, which has only brought devision and a lack of progressive moves for the majority's benefit. We need inspiration from leaders....encouragement.....someone to spur us on and pull us together....a human need which we are being deprived of I feel. That's one of the reasons we elect leaders..... to lead us. "Lead us not into Temptation, but Lead us into......"
Why is it I feel as though I am still on the first page of this novel I started 10 years ago?
Take me to my Leader.
Last edited on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 03:36 pm by Bambi
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pipeman
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Posted: Sun Mar 9th, 2008 05:53 am |
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anne.reed wrote: azsunshine wrote:
JJohnson wrote: JJohnson wrote: I am still waiting to hear how I and any other concerned member ofthe community can join the BLC. Why on earth can't I get a straight/serious answer?
If the answer is that membership is closed please let us know. If it is open I just want to know how to join
bump
JJ,
Anne said the BLC provides to the County unbiased results of what the neighbors want (correct me please Anne if that is not what you meant). I think since JJ has been a non vicious poster IMO, he/she may be an unbiased person toward what neighbors want. He/she would be as good as anyone else unless proven otherwise since we really don't know if other BLC members are really unbiased (hence 2 cents "common minded" comment--how to you know neighbors are common minded-that in itself would be biased unless you take a true poll of the neighbors.
There are many opportunities to serve the community. A good place to start might be by assisting in community clean ups and when his knowledge of community events, his leadership skills, and his ability to serve without personal bias is recognized he would undoubtedly be invited to participate.
Without exception, there are actual polls of neighbors.
Regards,
Anne
Whoaaaa, who are you to say if JJ has leadership skills or not? Do you even know JJ? Porbably not, so how can you sit an preach to the choir? How do know he hasn't assisted in community clean-ups? Maybe he was at the last one......do you know that JJ wasn't there? Porbably not. Lastly, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, when he has the ability to serve without personal bias............ as if you and members of the BLC (notice I did not paint this with such a large brush and generalize individuals as the BLC) are not bias in your thoughts, ideas, plans, etc... How do you get off speaking in such a manner? You should be ashamed of yourself. I wouls advice saying what you just wrote, while looking into your mirror so you really know who you are speaking to.
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Posted: Thu Feb 28th, 2008 07:59 pm
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No one is unbiased......everyone has a belief and a bias without execption, there are polls of neighbors???? What neighbors are you speaking of? The rural folks and those that are already members? What kind of poll is that if it is not biased?
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anne.reed
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:21 pm |
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azsunshine wrote:
JJohnson wrote: JJohnson wrote: I am still waiting to hear how I and any other concerned member ofthe community can join the BLC. Why on earth can't I get a straight/serious answer?
If the answer is that membership is closed please let us know. If it is open I just want to know how to join
bump
JJ,
Anne said the BLC provides to the County unbiased results of what the neighbors want (correct me please Anne if that is not what you meant). I think since JJ has been a non vicious poster IMO, he/she may be an unbiased person toward what neighbors want. He/she would be as good as anyone else unless proven otherwise since we really don't know if other BLC members are really unbiased (hence 2 cents "common minded" comment--how to you know neighbors are common minded-that in itself would be biased unless you take a true poll of the neighbors.
There are many opportunities to serve the community. A good place to start might be by assisting in community clean ups and when his knowledge of community events, his leadership skills, and his ability to serve without personal bias is recognized he would undoubtedly be invited to participate.
Without exception, there are actual polls of neighbors.
Regards,
Anne
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pipeman
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 04:40 pm |
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Black Jack wrote: pipeman wrote:Do you think that because TOQC and TOF extended thier planning areas into our communtiy means that a city can not happen any longer? If that is what you think, you are very wrong. Neither town has ANY jurisdiction over unicorporated areas. We would just have to stay six miles off Florence boundary lines. It is just as feasable today as it was during the other attempts.
Pipe,
You might want to drive east on Hunt Highway someday and look where the Florence city limits begins. In case you miss the sign, it is at Franklin Road. Six miles west of that point is Bella Vista Road, a point about in the middle of Johnson Ranch. Now please tell me how you are going to stay 6 miles away from their city limits once again. Things have changed since the last attempt to incorporate failed.
Black, I do in fact know where the town limits begin/end. I have not watched milage to see where the six miles is from that point, which I will do for my own curiousity, BUT...... there are ways to skirt that issues, which I will not get into until/if the time comes where this will be a MINOR stepping stome.
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Black Jack
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 12:43 pm |
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pipeman wrote:Do you think that because TOQC and TOF extended thier planning areas into our communtiy means that a city can not happen any longer? If that is what you think, you are very wrong. Neither town has ANY jurisdiction over unicorporated areas. We would just have to stay six miles off Florence boundary lines. It is just as feasable today as it was during the other attempts.
Pipe,
You might want to drive east on Hunt Highway someday and look where the Florence city limits begins. In case you miss the sign, it is at Franklin Road. Six miles west of that point is Bella Vista Road, a point about in the middle of Johnson Ranch. Now please tell me how you are going to stay 6 miles away from their city limits once again. Things have changed since the last attempt to incorporate failed.
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pipeman
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 05:24 am |
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anne.reed wrote: Dear Bambi:
The Eloy project sounds exciting! Congratulations.
I'm confused by the statistics listed in the poll results. Can people vote more than once? If you look at the total votes the percentages don't add up.
I haven't voted on this poll for a couple of reasons.
1) I fully support self governance
2) Becoming a city is not an option-resolutions unavailable
3) We are in need of additional services but there are more practical ways to achieve our objectives-flood control, education and burying all utilities would be my highest priority
4) Code violations should be enforced in subdivisions and in the rurals
Regards,
Anne
Anne, you chose to move into the rurals, why now have you decided that you want utilities to be buried? How do you claim buried utilities to be a high priority? And who is it a high priority to? Getting a library, fixing the roads, getting Sandies dead butt out of that office, getting our property assessments in line are what the majority of this area would benefit from the most, as well as improving our educational system. Why do you keep saying that becoming our own city is not an option-resolutions unavailable? Do you think that because TOQC and TOF extended thier planning areas into our communtiy means that a city can not happen any longer? If that is what you think, you are very wrong. Neither town has ANY jurisdiction over unicorporated areas. We would just have to stay six miles off Florence boundary lines. It is just as feasable today as it was during the other attempts.
You are right about code violations. theyt should be enforced in ALL areas, especially starting in the rurals. As I have seen manhy many exteme eyesores out there.
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gk
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 03:45 am |
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jj missed the rendezvous with our illustrious leader at the designated coordinates.
The next landing is March 21st. Of course there is always the alternative. Look under ted's bed. I'm sure the BLC is there
Last edited on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 03:48 am by gk
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pipeman
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 03:18 am |
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azsunshine wrote: JJohnson wrote: JJohnson wrote: I am still waiting to hear how I and any other concerned member ofthe community can join the BLC. Why on earth can't I get a straight/serious answer?
If the answer is that membership is closed please let us know. If it is open I just want to know how to join
bumped again
JJ
Must be too hard of questions/enrollment process. Then again H101 says the BLC is disbanded and its just individuals and Anne said "Presently" the BLC handles letters to the powers that be. Maybe they are just trying to figure out which one is right? LET JJ JOIN!!! LET JJ JOIN!!!!
AZ, members of the BLC have said that they have not disbanded. They are still negotiating zoning deals with people, which is absolutley asinine on Sandies and the Countys part. There is NO open enrollment, there is no application if so and it has been said that this group is open to all members of the community then why haven't jj, bambi and myself been allowed to join? Because it is a closed group to like minded people who only want what is best for them and their associates and to hell with the rest of us. (No people this is not a personal attack on an individual, it is an attack on the doings of a Political Action Committee), which in all turns is really not a PAC, UNLESS SOEMONE HAS LIED TO US. PACS are an important aspect of American politics and the American electoral system. PACS exist legally as a means for corporations, trade unions, etc.. to make donations to candidtaes for Fed. State, County, City, etc.. offices. So does this mean that the BLC is a PAC for some other group in the area, wonder who that some other could be... Could it have anything to do with the San Tan Pride asking for donations and making the check out to the Btter Living Fund? HMMMMMM inquiring minds want to know. Having said this, AZ those that oppose the BLC will never be allowed in to their inner sanction.
Last edited on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 01:16 pm by pipeman
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azsunshine
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 02:09 am |
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JJohnson wrote: JJohnson wrote: I am still waiting to hear how I and any other concerned member ofthe community can join the BLC. Why on earth can't I get a straight/serious answer?
If the answer is that membership is closed please let us know. If it is open I just want to know how to join
bumped again
JJ
Must be too hard of questions/enrollment process. Then again H101 says the BLC is disbanded and its just individuals and Anne said "Presently" the BLC handles letters to the powers that be. Maybe they are just trying to figure out which one is right? LET JJ JOIN!!! LET JJ JOIN!!!!
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 05:30 pm |
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JJohnson wrote: I am still waiting to hear how I and any other concerned member ofthe community can join the BLC. Why on earth can't I get a straight/serious answer?
If the answer is that membership is closed please let us know. If it is open I just want to know how to join
bumped again
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 02:29 pm |
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azsunshine wrote:
Can't a regular community member (not going thru BLC) submit a letter and have it on record with the B of S? Again, does the BLC represent the closest residents to the affected zoning area or ???. Has in the past the BLC submitted letters that conflict in interest to each other? For example if one neighbor wanted the changed zoning and another neighbor didn't--would the BLC submit both letters? If not, forget the BLC-they would not be accurately representing the community.
anne.reed wrote:
Dear Pipe and History:
I think you guys are on the right track. A council of sorts with proportional representation by area seems to be a logical next step.
I agree with history. Counties are unlikely to change their meetings to evenings. However, if we had the council going, those who couldn't attend could have their opinions, in letter form, read into the record. Presently, the BLC provides this service to residents who are unable to attend hearings, cases and meetings.
Regards,
Anne
AZ, yes a community member can submit on their own, but if it is someone outside the rurals and it goes against waht certain members and people want, why write it or voice your opinion as Sandie only does out here for these select few. That is why it is important that we get the right Supervisor in place, one who has the whole comminties best interstes at heart. Have you ever asked to sit on one of the advisory commiittees for the county? Try it and see where you get.nowhere. I have asked many many times, and have not once gotten a response.
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pipeman
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 02:22 pm |
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Just a note to everyone. I AM PRO-CITY..........PERIOD...........
Although I am open to all suggestions and will listen to all, I will not sit and be lied to, will not sit and listen to truths being twisted to fit the ideology of certain groups, certain people, certain areas, etc... If someone wants to step to the forefront and be open and honest about whatever it is being asked, being studied, being investigated whatever, I am all ears. Not saying this will sway me from my strong stance on what is best for this area, but I will listen and learn where each party is coming from and will do it with respect. But in no way, shape, or form will this make my feelings, thoughts, ideas, and knowledge about what will benefit the community as a whole the best.
With taxing districts as some suggest, we will still have to pay taxes into these districts, with a community counsel we will still have to pay taxes, with remaining status quo we will still have to pay taxes and remain in this screwed up state we currently find ourselves in. With all of these things, we will ONLY reap very and I mean very limited governance and control. Now tell me honestly what is best for our area? We all know what the correct answer is, why don't we all just come out of the closet, stop hiding behind others and just say and admit it. I WILL.......WE NEED TO BECOME OUR OWN CITY TO HAVE TOTAL AND COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS TO US OUT HERE. OTHERWISE, WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF OUTSIDE FORCES CONTROLLING US. THEY DON'T WANT TO CONTROL US, AS THEY DON'T WAN'T OUR ROOFTOPS, THEY WANT TO CONTROL WHAT WE HAVE, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE.
COME ON PEOPLE WAKE UP. Why do you think TOQC and TOF have extended their planning areas? There is ONLY ONE REASON..............THE MONEY THIS PLACE WILL BRING....................... Are we going to let outside forces take what is ours now and what will be ours in the future???
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 09:31 pm by pipeman
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 01:41 pm |
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azsunshine,
According to the BLC if you live in the rural area then you are in 100% agreement with what they say. Why would there be any conflict from those affected neighbors?
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azsunshine
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 01:37 pm |
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Can't a regular community member (not going thru BLC) submit a letter and have it on record with the B of S? Again, does the BLC represent the closest residents to the affected zoning area or ???. Has in the past the BLC submitted letters that conflict in interest to each other? For example if one neighbor wanted the changed zoning and another neighbor didn't--would the BLC submit both letters? If not, forget the BLC-they would not be accurately representing the community.
anne.reed wrote:
Dear Pipe and History:
I think you guys are on the right track. A council of sorts with proportional representation by area seems to be a logical next step.
I agree with history. Counties are unlikely to change their meetings to evenings. However, if we had the council going, those who couldn't attend could have their opinions, in letter form, read into the record. Presently, the BLC provides this service to residents who are unable to attend hearings, cases and meetings.
Regards,
Anne
Last edited on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 01:38 pm by azsunshine
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JJohnson
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 01:31 pm |
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What we don’t need is another group but what we do need is for ALL RESIDENTS to come together and work together, That is all fine and dandy but the BLC won't even tell us how to join their group. Are we supposed to stand back and just trust them blindly to represents us despite past history?
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anne.reed
Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 01:18 pm |
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Dear Pipe and History:
I think you guys are on the right track. A council of sorts with proportional representation by area seems to be a logical next step.
I agree with history. Counties are unlikely to change their meetings to evenings. However, if we had the council going, those who couldn't attend could have their opinions, in letter form, read into the record. Presently, the BLC provides this service to residents who are unable to attend hearings, cases and meetings.
Regards,
Anne
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History_101
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 09:39 pm |
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Pipe,
A little more history if you don’t mind. There have been rural activists working in the San Tan area for years. Actually, long before the first development appeared. When the first incorporation attempt came about, these rural activists saw they could not defeat the incorporation attempt that included their rural areas without help. That is when they turned to the developments. That is when the BLC PAC was formed. Yes, believe it or not, there were and probably still are people that live in the developments that don’t want to incorporate for what ever reason. Many of the development people joined forces with the rural activists in an attempt to defeat incorporation. But for the most part, when the attempts failed and the BLC PAC was disbanded, the activists I spoke of remained active in local affairs. These are the individuals that are still being referred to as the BLC by many.
Now, I will agree with everything you just posted; however, if you think you can get the county meetings changed to evening hours, you’re a better person then most. I just don’t think it will ever happen, but I could be wrong.
What we don’t need is another group but what we do need is for ALL RESIDENTS to come together and work together, now there are still going to be disagreements, but at least work to improve our community. Just because you support the BLC, the San Tan Pride, the new Optimist Club or some other organization doesn’t make you a bad person. Is there some reason all of these groups can’t function together and work for the betterment community?
At this point in time, it is good to see you’d consider a Community Council. It would be a start. That idea was floated some time ago but nothing ever came of it. I believe there was just too much resentment still in the air at that time. This could be a viable way to get people working together and share ideas and present them at different levels of government. I know someone that has done research on that topic and I will ask if they’d share the information with me. But in the end, it still takes someone to take the bull by the horns and run with the idea and make it become a reality. Small talk and snipes on the blog will accomplish nothing.
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pipeman
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Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 06:08 am |
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History_101 wrote: The incorporation attempts in the San Tans of 2004-2005 failed. Get over it. You can bitch and complain all you want, but it isn’t going to change the outcome one bit. If you think incorporation is such a good thing, start your own effort and see how far you get.
Do you think Arizona residents are stupid? In November of 2007, Arizona City residents were faced with one question –- whether to incorporate and form a municipality or remain an unincorporated part of Pinal County -- nearly 60 percent of the voters said NO to incorporation.
We hear the same arguments in the San Tans from those that support incorporation and those that oppose it.
Proponents of incorporation have maintained that forming Arizona City into a municipality would bring much-needed state revenue-sharing funds into the community, with which it could build sidewalks, repave roads and improve living conditions. As well, they argued, being a municipality would give the town the power to enact zoning restrictions and control growth.
Opponents have argued that incorporation could bankrupt the community, raise taxes and would add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.
One thing is for sure, the past is the past and there isn’t anything anyone of us can do to change it. It is high time we bury the past and start working together to improve our future.
H..... I must agree with you that things from the past need to be put aside so we all can move on to the next step wherever that takes us. Having said that here is my take on us working together to improve our future. (And this is not a rip or finger pointing, etc... this is my opinion).
There should be no more private groups or individuals from private community groups doing ANY negotiating with landowners, developers, etc... This is the job of our Supervisor and/or county department(s). All negotiations need to be done in open forum so ALL community members have a chance to voice their concerns, oppinions, etc...
It would benefit the community as a whole, to have all Supervisor meetings, P&Z meetings, all county meetings moved to evening hours so community members have an opportunity to attend and be heard.
The BLC and San Tan Pride are groups currently formed in the community, Char is talking about starting another group out here. Is there really a need for all of these groups. Maybe all groups should come together and form one group, with a commons set of goals. And those goals should be goals that benefit the whole communtiy not just certain areas of the communtiy, not just certain people in the community etc.. We all want a library, outstanding police protection, outstanding fire protection, better roads (to accomodate all the cars, lesson congestion, safer roads, with less accidents and deaths, etc...), we all want better education, I believe most would like a post office out here, and things such as this. Imagagine if there was one group fighting for the common goals of the whole and what could possibly be accomplished out here. We need parks with ball fields so our children have a place where they can start little league baseball, soccer leagues, etc... With Dale Bell even thoiugh he is not violating any county ordinances, obviuosly the noise and lights, etc... is bothering people who live close by. So instead of the county wasting tax payers money to fight him in court, which the county will take it in the shorts (or I should say us tax payers will) maybe this one group could have a sit-down and try to come up with a reasonable solution to the problem, we could also be the man power behind the solution. I would be willing to build, dig, etc.. whatever it took to appease Dale and the neighbors who are affected so we can end this madness.
So yes, the bickering needs to stop, but not just the bickering , BUT the decisions need to be made by more than just those from the past, otherwise we will NEVER move past where we are now.
Maybe as some stated in the past a community council is the way to go. But it would need to be done with each area and subdivsion being equally represented on the council. A community council with a strict set of by-laws. I am not sure of the answer, but I do know that what we currently have going is not working, is not appropriate, does not benefit the masses. What we have only brings hate and discontent. I don't know, am I making sense or is it the codeine talking?
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CharWester
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 12:21 pm |
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History_101 wrote: The incorporation attempts in the San Tans of 2004-2005 failed. Get over it. You can bitch and complain all you want, but it isn’t going to change the outcome one bit. If you think incorporation is such a good thing, start your own effort and see how far you get.
Do you think Arizona residents are stupid? In November of 2007, Arizona City residents were faced with one question –- whether to incorporate and form a municipality or remain an unincorporated part of Pinal County -- nearly 60 percent of the voters said NO to incorporation.
We hear the same arguments in the San Tans from those that support incorporation and those that oppose it.
Proponents of incorporation have maintained that forming Arizona City into a municipality would bring much-needed state revenue-sharing funds into the community, with which it could build sidewalks, repave roads and improve living conditions. As well, they argued, being a municipality would give the town the power to enact zoning restrictions and control growth.
Opponents have argued that incorporation could bankrupt the community, raise taxes and would add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.
One thing is for sure, the past is the past and there isn’t anything anyone of us can do to change it. It is high time we bury the past and start working together to improve our future.
EXACTLY...we need to work together. I hope to see a bunch of you for coffee/breakfast the last Saturday of this month (and all the following months) at 9am at the Johnson Ranch Grill (Golf Course restaurant) to discuss issues effecting our community. I also think it is a great opportunity to get to know one another...putting a face to the screen names
I also am looking forward to the workshops that STAC is putting together!
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gk
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Posted: Sat Mar 1st, 2008 12:50 am |
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| Very wll said........enough is enough
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History_101
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 10:13 pm |
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The incorporation attempts in the San Tans of 2004-2005 failed. Get over it. You can bitch and complain all you want, but it isn’t going to change the outcome one bit. If you think incorporation is such a good thing, start your own effort and see how far you get.
Do you think Arizona residents are stupid? In November of 2007, Arizona City residents were faced with one question –- whether to incorporate and form a municipality or remain an unincorporated part of Pinal County -- nearly 60 percent of the voters said NO to incorporation.
We hear the same arguments in the San Tans from those that support incorporation and those that oppose it.
Proponents of incorporation have maintained that forming Arizona City into a municipality would bring much-needed state revenue-sharing funds into the community, with which it could build sidewalks, repave roads and improve living conditions. As well, they argued, being a municipality would give the town the power to enact zoning restrictions and control growth.
Opponents have argued that incorporation could bankrupt the community, raise taxes and would add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.
One thing is for sure, the past is the past and there isn’t anything anyone of us can do to change it. It is high time we bury the past and start working together to improve our future.
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Ted
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 08:53 pm |
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Sorry for the confusion. But could you please tell me of one other occasion where the BLC hosted a meeting other than the November 2004 meeting to show off your pro-anarchy/anti-city propaganda that was held at San Tan Heights elementary? When the BLC says that they have held public meetings in the past, that is always the one mentioned. If you could please enlighten us to the many other occasions where the BLC has come out of hiding and actually met with the public, that would be great.
And I got the attendance figure directly from somebody who attended.
Last edited on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 09:16 pm by Ted
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gk
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 08:44 pm |
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Only one public meeting in the entire existence of the BLC?
shut up ted.......no one ever said "one"
That is one that I understand
once again you don't know for a fact, but you "understand" meaning gossip.
pipeman asked questions without contempt and with a desire to understand and I answered the same, but you have always spoken with contempt, accusations and assumptions. You simply are not worthy of a response.
You're soap operas are on now aren't they?
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Ted
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 08:27 pm |
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Only one public meeting in the entire existence of the BLC? That is one that I understand was attended by less than a dozen people. Are you telling me that this is all you can give us for instances where the public was invited to a BLC meeting? That is pathetic.
Try holding a public BLC meeting now. I guarantee more people will show up.
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pipeman
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 07:07 pm |
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| gk, good points below. Was not accusing or anything of that nature. For once, I was just trying to understand where you are coming from as well as the BLC. Thanks for the answers.
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History_101
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 07:01 pm |
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gk wrote: they financially contributed to Sandie and her position, thus giving them the upper hand with her.
This is not true, These imaginings of the mind need to stop. The BLC DID NOT contribute to Sandie Smith. Where did that notion come from?
I guess I don't understand what your criteria is for something that helps the benefits entire community. I can only conjecture that you are trying to compare it to a city.
If that's the case I could say the same thing about a city that does things that DO NOT benefit the entire community.
A city plans to build a sports stadium, but the voters say no. The city builds it anyway. Maybe half of the community cares about sports. Does not benefit the ENTIRE community
A city builds a park, actually this does not benefit the entire community either, only a small portion of the community will use the park. Does no benefit the ENTIRE Community.......and so on.
What's the criteria?
7. Open meetings pertaining to??? What residents attended and where? What facts of what issues are we talking about here. Where were these issues that people needed to speak with officials and what officials are we refering to? Pertaining to school districts and school issues, zoning issues, fire Dept issues, Law Enforcement issues, roads and other concerns. A table for each of the issues were set up and the experts in each area were in attendance to answer everyones questions. How would I possibly know who attended? Dr. Brooks of the Coolidege school district, Richard Sagar from the Florence school district, a representative from the Sheriffs office, Rural Metro officials, and I don't remember all of the reps that we had but it was all publicized in community wide mail flyers, signs e-mails etc. and on our website. Open to everyone.
I don't understand your criteria for determining the ENTIRE COMMUNITY
Gene,
If I remember correctly, that meeting was held by the BLC PAC during the first incorporation effort in the gym of the original San Tan Heights Grade School. I believe a representative from Florence also spoke at the meeting. You are correct, it was an open meeting and I learned allot not only from the speakers, but from talking to the representatives at the tables; however, the members of the incorporation group boycotted it yet they went around the parking lot putting pro-incorporation flyers on everyone’s car windshield. Why didn’t they come in and speak to the group? Was it not open to them? That tactic probably cost them some signatures on petitions from residents that did attend. Are these the same folks that are now complaining the most?
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gk
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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they financially contributed to Sandie and her position, thus giving them the upper hand with her.
This is not true, These imaginings of the mind need to stop. The BLC DID NOT contribute to Sandie Smith. Where did that notion come from?
I guess I don't understand what your criteria is for something that helps the benefits entire community. I can only conjecture that you are trying to compare it to a city.
If that's the case I could say the same thing about a city that does things that DO NOT benefit the entire community.
A city plans to build a sports stadium, but the voters say no. The city builds it anyway. Maybe half of the community cares about sports. Does not benefit the ENTIRE community
A city builds a park, actually this does not benefit the entire community either, only a small portion of the community will use the park. Does no benefit the ENTIRE Community.......and so on.
What's the criteria?
1. Most of the community does not go down Thompson, would be suprised if most even knew where Thompson is. How did the community as a whole benefit from this?Not only Thompson but Gary also. I believe that litter and garbage are a blight on the entire community everywhere and everyone should get involved. That is community.
2. what does horse back riding with underserved children have to do with the community as a whole. How did the whole community benefit from this? Just the right thing to do. How does the ENTIRE community benefit if a city had a special olympics run? Same idea
3. To me, it looks like any other Walmart. Not everybody out here wants low lights and dark skies. Many want better lighting to keep the riff-raff from commiting crimes in total darkness. How has this benefited the community as a whole? You don't care if Waldo-mart was a big ugly square box? It's a part of the community, it should look like it. And it's not an issue of the number of lights......dark skies is an issue of proper light shielding, type of light and light pollution. Has nothing to do with crime or number of lights
4.that is wonderful for those living in San Tan, but again, how does the benefit the community as a whole? It sets a standard for other developers to follow. The looks of A development of this size does affect the entire community and how it is perceived. An example would be George Johnson's water treatment plant at Village Lane. It's a cruddy looking building surrounded by a block fence with barbed wire on top. Looks like a prison. By the same token I could ask how a cities zoning benefits an ENTIRE community. Someone is always going to disagree and find fault with anything
5.Wildcat subdivisions are a major concern for whom? And this benefited the community as a whole in what way? They are a major concern to anyone who buys in them and a concern to anyone else within their geographical region. Wildcat's can show up anywhere, not just the Thompson road area. There are wildcat subdivisions where peoples property lines are in the middle of the road, where flooding issues are not taken into account and people who are in, near, and on down stream are subject to their inadequate methods.
6. OK, what buildings are we talking about? And why do they need to blend in and match their surroundings? This benefited the community as a whole how? So you would not care if Waldomart was a large square blue building, or for that matter every building looked like anything you can imagine? Like it or not the area has a history and a western culture and some people appreciate a consistency in their architecture. But here again you can not benefit the ENTIRE community, just like a city cannot benefit the ENTIRE community.
7. Open meetings pertaining to??? What residents attended and where? What facts of what issues are we talking about here. Where were these issues that people needed to speak with officials and what officials are we refering to? Pertaining to school districts and school issues, zoning issues, fire Dept issues, Law Enforcement issues, roads and other concerns. A table for each of the issues were set up and the experts in each area were in attendance to answer everyones questions. How would I possibly know who attended? Dr. Brooks of the Coolidege school district, Richard Sagar from the Florence school district, a representative from the Sheriffs office, Rural Metro officials, and I don't remember all of the reps that we had but it was all publicized in community wide mail flyers, signs e-mails etc. and on our website. Open to everyone.
I don't understand your criteria for determining the ENTIRE COMMUNITY
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CharWester
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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I understand that alot of people work or have some good reason for not attending meetings. However, I also beleive that there are other ways to be involved. I am suggesting that we all meet once a month and then we could also get a web site going that would provide info and they could send emails or letters that could be forwarded to the county stating their stand on certain issues. We can get involved, we just have to get a bit creative.
So, how about March 29th at Johnson Ranch Grill at 9am? I will see what information I can provide and anyone else that has info or questions can bring the info to the meeting. I will be more than happy to be the one that does the running around and gathering of information. I will also work to try to get a speaker at the meetings.
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CharWester
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 03:25 pm |
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The lights have always been on. I have maintained what I stated about the BLC for years now. I have also made several attempts over the last couple of years to get people to get together, as a communtiy, and get involved. I hope that it will happen. I will sit by my self (well, I will make my mom, Bambi, come to) at the restaurant if I have to until people start showing up. I will work hard throughout the month to get all the information on goings on that effect our community and bring them to the meetings. Hope to see some people actually show up. 
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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 03:04 pm |
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2 cents wrote: And the light comes on!
BRAVO CHARWESTER, BRAVO!!
Gnat
Hey you. Where's that information on the J curve I asked you to look up in exchange for my explaining to you the Empire ownership?
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2 cents
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 02:57 pm |
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And the light comes on!
BRAVO CHARWESTER, BRAVO!!
Gnat
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pipeman
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 02:45 pm |
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CharWester wrote: pipeman wrote: gk wrote: My point was that to qualify as a Mason you have to believe in A GOD. Don't matter which one....any one will do.
Masons hold all scripture as the same........The Bible, the Koran, the Vedic literature etc etc.....all the same. We use the Holy Bible and nothing but the Holy Bible.
To Satanists that would be Satan......they would be in. Satanists would never be allowed into a Masonic Lodge, sorry, just won't happen. As stated, everything about Free Masonry comes directly from the Holy Bible. Don't believe everything that you read (as you tell me)
Bambi does not know (agnostic)......she would be excluded
At any rate it is not really pertinent, just seemed a little double standard. Again, it's not double standard, these two organizations are so far apart on what they do. Bambi, wouldn't get in because she is a female. I am a Moose as well and we don't let women in there either, we also do not get invloved in politics or anything pertaining to it. My two organizations (again) are so very different than the BLC.
As asked before, tell me what the BLC has done out here to benefit the community as a whole.
Where to start....can't remember all right off.....
1. Highway cleanups on Gary and Thompson. This I knew as I seen you sign.
2. Horseback riding in the San Tans for homelesss kids that were bussed from Phx. Wonderful, working for the YMCA where I came from we had Jerrys kids in every summer. Those where really fun times being around those children. We also had the adults, but Jerry would not allow adults to be part of his organization.
3. Walmart, worked to keep the lighting low level and ensure dark skies, design suggestions that it NOT be a big square box, but matched the community etc. OK, I like you hate Walmart. But it looks like any other WM to me.
4. Worked with the developer of SanT Tan Heights suggesting that at the edges of his developement not be just a block wall to end it. He then created the large lots and no fencing on the south and the west of his development to more fit that surrounding landscape of open spaces OK
5. Worked with the state trying to stop indiscriminate blasting of mountains and stop wildcat subdivisions. Wildcat subdivisions are a major concern OK
6. Interfaced and worked with developers of propertys in an attempt to keep buildings to better match the area and to ensure plenty of open space for recreational activities. OK, where was this? Was it residential or commercial?
7. Held open community meetings with officials so residents could ask them questions and get the facts of issues. OK what part of the community? Answers to what? What residents?
This list could easily go on and on but I will add that members have worked on their own issues that they are concerned with and still continue to do so. Some of us are concerned with law enforcement, some are concerned with the park, some the Library etc et. That is wonderful.
gk, that is all wonderful. I just want to add again that I (we) know you worked hard on the library issues and it is very much appreciated. But the question was, "what has the BLC done for the community as a whole"? Don't get me wrong... everything you posted is great stuff but seen nothing that benefits the whole community. I am not being a smart arse or trying to cause trouble/knocking anyone.
1. Most of the community does not go down Thompson, would be suprised if most even knew where Thompson is. How did the community as a whole benefit from this?
2. what does horse back riding with underserved children have to do with the community as a whole. How did the whole community benefit from this?
3. To me, it looks like any other Walmart. Not everybody out here wants low lights and dark skies. Many want better lighting to keep the riff-raff from commiting crimes in total darkness. How has this benefited the community as a whole?
4.that is wonderful for those living in San Tan, but again, how does the benefit the community as a whole?
5.Wildcat subdivisions are a major concern for whom? And this benefited the community as a whole in what way?
6. OK, what buildings are we talking about? And why do they need to blend in and match their surroundings? This benefited the community as a whole how?
7. Open meetings pertaining to??? What residents attended and where? What facts of what issues are we talking about here. Where were these issues that people needed to speak with officials and what officials are we refering to?
Again not being a smart arse, just trying to hear what it is exactly that the BLC has done to benefit the community as a whole. I am also not saying that these weren't good things done by you people either. I am not talking about just those in the rurals. Many things mentioned deal with a certain group of people, not the masses.
Thanks
I don't ever hear of any community meetings put on by the BLC. I believe that they are private meetings by invitation only. I really would love to see more TOTALLY INCLUSIVE community meetings out here. I have lived out here for years and have never been invited to a BLC Community Meeting. I also have a lot of family and friends that live out in this area and they have never been to a meeting either. But, I do think that we need to have community meetings at least once a month on a regular basis and maybe have different speakers (such as government officials and/or developers) to speak about different issues effecting our community.
I believe that why the BLC is so influencial is because they are involved! We can't blame them for being involved. The BLC is a group of people with the same views etc and they choose to have a spokesperson for them. We, as a community, need to do the same. I would be willing to work with other residents out here to get information and put together monthly meetings. Maybe we could meet at Serrano's on Saturday mornings once a month. What do you think?
I just believe that we need to stop being upset at the BLC for doing the very same thing we all have the right to do. We need to get a group of community members together and get involved in this community. I think that we all have the same thing in mind...we want to have a say in what happens in our community. Well, let's do it!
What is a good Saturday to start this up? How about the last Saturday of every month at 9am at Serrano's? I am pretty sure that we could get the enclosed patio. Let me know what you guys think.
Char, I agree with you to a point. I applaud the BLC for being involved for things they want to see done for the benefit of themselves. We should take note of what they have accomplished for themselves as a group and little community and do the same for ourselves, but better. Several of us have asked to be let into the BLC and/or how do we get an application, attend a swear in ceremony but have yet to receive an answer, for which we are still waiting. This group has stated that they are a group that is "OPEN" to all persons in the community, yet we get no answer.
Most are invloved and/or have the opportunity to be involved is due to:
1. they financially contributed to Sandie and her position, thus giving them the upper hand with her.
2. most are older and may not work when the county has meetings while the rest of us are fighting the traffic to get to work and fighting it to get home. Me thinks the county needs to listen and make these meetings in the evenings so we all have the opportunity to be involved.
3. The BLC has what influence it has because Sandie has allowed it to happen. She has allowed members of the community to negotiate with developers/landowners, etc.. basically she has allowed them to do her and/or the countues (P&Z) JOBS.
I am all for starting a group of like minded community members out here to get together out here for much needed discussions and to find resolutions to our problems.
You name the time, date and place and I will come up with the secret handshake and password for us.
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CharWester
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 02:32 pm |
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| Or...we could have breakfast at Johnson Ranch Grill on their outdoor patio. They are in Pinal County while Serrano's is in Queen Creek. Just thought I would put it out there.
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CharWester
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 29th, 2008 02:26 pm |
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pipeman wrote: gk wrote: My point was that to qualify as a Mason you have to believe in A GOD. Don't matter which one....any one will do.
Masons hold all scripture as the same........The Bible, the Koran, the Vedic literature etc etc.....all the same. We use the Holy Bible and nothing but the Holy Bible.
To Satanists that would be Satan......they would be in. Satanists would never be allowed into a Masonic Lodge, sorry, just won't happen. As stated, everything about Free Masonry comes directly from the Holy Bible. Don't believe everything that you read (as you tell me)
Bambi does not know (agnostic)......she would be excluded
At any rate it is not really pertinent, just seemed a little double standard. Again, it's not double standard, these two organizations are so far apart on what they do. Bambi, wouldn't get in because she is a female. I am a Moose as well and we don't let women in there either, we also do not get invloved in politics or anything pertaining to it. My two organizations (again) are so very different than the BLC.
As asked before, tell me what the BLC has done out here to benefit the community as a whole.
Where to start....can't remember all right off.....
1. Highway cleanups on Gary and Thompson. This I knew as I seen you sign.
2. Horseback riding in the San Tans for homelesss kids that were bussed from Phx. Wonderful, working for the YMCA where I came from we had Jerrys kids in every summer. Those where really fun times being around those children. We also had the adults, but Jerry would not allow adults to be part of his organization.
3. Walmart, worked to keep the lighting low level and ensure dark skies, design suggestions that it NOT be a big square box, but matched the community etc. OK, I like you hate Walmart. But it looks like any other WM to me.
4. Worked with the developer of SanT Tan Heights suggesting that at the edges of his developement not be just a block wall to end it. He then created the large lots and no fencing on the south and the west of his development to more fit that surrounding landscape of open spaces OK
5. Worked with the state trying to
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