| Author | Post |
|---|
starleen
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Queen Creek |
| Posts: | 139 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:26 am |
|
If we open a quarrel between past and present, we shall find that we have lost the future.
Winston Churchill
|
Bambi
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 08:02 pm |
|
Are we still discussing adequate roadways?
KeepitRural. What's your real name? Anyone concerned about the Rurals should be standing straight and showing their colors. Pride. Where's yours as you disclose to me that I am destroying the rurals because of commercial along Hunt.
I have had properties along there for sale for years. I have sold to people along Hunt for years. Not one person.....and contrary to some that contend I had "potential" commercial on my signs, I did not at that time.....but, the only people who ever called to inquire about the properties along Hunt were either investors or commercial users....not one person called to buy for a residence. Not one person is interested on locating a residence on a major thoroughfare.
That means the "market" has decided the highest and best use of that property, just like it is deciding that many of us who own homes will suffer great losses....the "market" decides that; not Bambi.....not Anne; not Gordon; not KeepitRural. You can build all kinds of roadways to get the people out, but the shortest distance between point A and B is a straight line, and if Hunt gets them there quicker to that "point", then it's Hunt they will take. Do you plan on posting a detour that states residential traffic only? Private Rd.? Do some of you still think you are the skilled planners who have determined what is best for the "people's private property rights?" along Hunt, by using others property's rights as a means to an end? The end being taking power from the Govt. to control the land along Hunt, so that you can use these private property's as buffers from other residents behind them? As you have done already with the sites that border Ellsworth and Hunt? All intrinsic value has been taken from those properties in my opinion, so that you can protect your "rural" friends from the "noise."
It's too late for that. By accepting and promoting Dale Bell's San Tan Flats Rest, and by Dale winning the case in court, we have lost any opportunity to keep those front lots on Hunt, residential. Investors and possible end users are just waiting for the changing of the "guards" at the County, then they will be approaching the "new administration in Florence." If the new Admin. in Pinal refuses to allow them commercial zoning along Hunt,are prepared to exit to Queen Creek and seek annexation. That means we will lose more revenue because of poor decisions by the powers that be...local residents who have already led us unto a lawsuit. Why should we listen to these same people?
I won't; I won't; I won't allow myself or my family members or my clients to continue traveling on that inadequate roadway. And, I plain on doing something about it and not just sit behind my keyboard and complain about it. I have 35 family members living in this area.....precious lives I intend on helping to oversee to protect their welfare and their precious lives from head on collisions:just because the same inexperienced people still have this desire to "call the shots" doesn't mean it's going to happen that way.
It's too late to retain as residential. A precedent has been set by San Tan Flats. Now lets work on a plan that all those ruralites can agree to that have residences in that subdivision that was put together in the 60's, with the 60's attitudes and needs and planning. There was nothing out here at that time. The Developer had no idea that Hunt would be a major road in the 60's. I am a Ruralite and proud of it, but I am also evolving right along with my landscape.
Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 08:08 pm by Bambi
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 07:32 pm |
|
The county???????? You would honestly trust Pinal County with something like this? I would not trust them with putting together any type of deal. The way they have messed up everything so far they should be put in charge of animal control only.
Once again I could care less if a private company makes money off of the deal. Private enterprise always gives a better return on investment than government ever will. At the end of the day the private entity will produce a better product at less cost for the consumer. If they make money then so be it. If they lose money then it is also not my problem.
|
anne.reed
Member
|
Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 07:22 pm |
|
JJohnson wrote:
I could really care less who makes money on a toll road. The point is that we have a problem that needs to be solved. If the governemtn can't do it then let the private sector take a shot at it. Remember that no one will be forced to drive on it. You would only be paying for the convenience. For many that would be very valuable.
Dear JJ:
In past cases of toll roads, the private sector wasn't willing to build the roads unless they were given special consideration by the entities involved. This has meant, among other things, public road maintenance was limited so when they fell into disrepair and became unusable the private sector gained a captive audience of commuters and travelers.
http://www.worldbank.org/transport/roads/toll_rds.htm
If we were to allow toll roads, they should be managed by the county not the private sector whose stated goals are profit, not public welfare.
Regards,
Anne
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 12:12 am |
|
| I could really care less who makes money on a toll road. The point is that we have a problem that needs to be solved. If the governemtn can't do it then let the private sector take a shot at it. Remember that no one will be forced to drive on it. You would only be paying for the convenience. For many that would be very valuable.
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 09:38 pm |
|
gk wrote:
... part of the beauty?........with the economy going in the dumper for years ahead how much use would it really get and who would use it? ...
How many residents live in the Hunt Highway area who need to get in and out for work and other activities???
gk wrote:
... You still have to find a place to put it.........
This holds true of any highway irregardless of the funding source.
|
gk
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tonga |
| Posts: | 1708 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 05:08 pm |
|
Second, if the toll road is self-funded through user-fees (tolls), I would not be paying more than I am now if I do not use the new road - in fact thats part of the beauty of the toll road concept.
part of the beauty?........with the economy going in the dumper for years ahead how much use would it really get and who would use it?
You still have to find a place to put it.........
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 04:39 am |
|
gk wrote:
With all of the taxes you already give to the government to fight eternal war, why on earth would you consider paying more than you do now, to drive on a road?
First, I do not give to the government to fight eternal war - what happened the last time you tried to avoid paying income taxes???
Second, if the toll road is self-funded through user-fees (tolls), I would not be paying more than I am now if I do not use the new road - in fact thats part of the beauty of the toll road concept.
Don't you think it would be more appropriate to fund government services through user-fees rather than taxes??? This way you only pay for the services you actually use - you only fund the highways you drive. Admittedly, pay-as-you-go does not work at a very local level, but it could work for every inter-city freeway within Arizona.
And again, I would never advocate that we allow foreign companies to operate and/or profit from any Arizona toll road.
And once more... how do you propose solving the transportation problems related to the Hunt Highway area??? And do not forget to explain how you would fund your solutions.
|
anne.reed
Member
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 01:59 am |
|
starleen wrote:
KeepItRural-QC wrote: We have Riggs DEFINED as the east-west main road that is planned to have 6 lanes, and yes Hunt up to the J-curve at Ellsworth is planned to have four lanes. But to have the four lanes built doesnt mean we need comerical along the entire road. And Empire/Hunt west of Ellsworth is planned to be a small two lanes road with eventually a center turn lane. So to try and build Hunt to the J-curve as a main way out of Pinal County is NOT smart planning. Gary and Ironwood north to where Riggs will eventually be should be the focus! Along with where the Williams Gateway Freeway will be. That is the best way to move traffic out of the area from an Engineering perspective.
From your moniker I have trouble realizing where you are coming from. Keep it Rural QC - as in Queen Creek or Quit Coming (through BLC sacred ground)? You are proposing shuttling all traffic out of Johnson Ranch to the north and then west right through the town of Queen Creek, ignoring the shorter "crow flies" route up Hunt to Ellworth, taking advantage of TOQC transportation improvements to protect the wishes of a very small community.
Are you looking at the same map as I am? The Bella Vista/Ironwood or the Gary/Rittenhouse/Ellsworth routes are built specifically to move traffic from Johnson Ranch. In fact, the shorter "crow flies" route is Gary/Rittenhouse/Ellsworth. It not only bypasses the rurals but downtown Queen Creek, too. In so doing, use of older and narrow Queen Creek roads is minimized (in accordance with their own plan). If you need to go downtown take Gary to Empire, then west to Ellsworth. This way you won't have to drive thru the rurals or past the dangerous road near Mountain View Academy.
Regards.
Anne
|
gk
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tonga |
| Posts: | 1708 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 12:16 am |
|
With all of the taxes you already give to the government to fight eternal war, why on earth would you consider paying more than you do now, to drive on a road?
Think you are inconvienced now......look forward to this
https://www.thetollroads.com/violation/nav.do?dest=faq
Toll roads are built to make money for a company.
Below is the team charged with overseeing the Indiana Toll Road's daily operations
- Fernando Redondo, ITRCC CEO
- Belen Marcos, COO Western Region
- Javier Gutierrez, COO Eastern Region
- Bryan Shoemaker, IT Manager
- Ray Hoover, Safety Manager
- Rick Fedder, Human Resources Manager
- vacant, Infrastructure Manager
- Bob Lapczynski, Interim Toll Collection Manager
- Pat Condon, Roadway Maintenance Manager
- Ed Eiseman, Building Maintenance Manager
- Joyce Ciesielski, Toll Audit Manager
- Matt Pierce, Director of Communications and Government Relations
Cintra, S.A. (Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte), (BMAD: CIN) is an international operator of toll roads and car parks. The company is listed on the Madrid stock exchange and is included in the IBEX-35 stock index. The Major shareholders is FerrovialSA (62.5%).
Roads operated by Cintra include the Highway 407 (Ontario), Chicago Skyway , the Indiana Toll Road , and numerous roads in Spain, Portugal and Ireland, as well as the Trans-Texas-Corridor (currently in development, to be operated as a partnership with San Antonio Texas based Zachry Construction Company).
Governor Rick Perry has refused to release many of the details of the $1.3 billion contract his administration has signed with Cintra for a toll road from Austin to Sequin as part of the Trans-Texas-Corridor . The Spanish company has had a close relationship with the governor's office: Perry's former legislative director, Dan Shelley, worked as a Cintra consultant and lobbyist prior to joining the governor's staff, and in September 2005, he went back to work for Cintra. Both he and his daughter, Jennifer Shelley-Rodriguez, now have lucrative contracts to lobby Texas legislators on the company's behalf.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/highwaymen.html
Virginia's tolls are one of the exceptions, run by their DOT, but it still has many of the same problems.
By the time an environmental impact study, another fissures study, a water study, an engineering study and the time the road is put into use it would be many years down the road and then.......when it's finally all done.......you will have the pleasure of handing over to someone your hard earned money to drive on their road.
What happened to all of that wonderful, happy, skippy, bundles of money that the Lottery was supposed to provide for???
Another bastard son of Corporatism!!
|
starleen
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Queen Creek |
| Posts: | 139 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 05:59 pm |
|
KeepItRural-QC wrote: We have Riggs DEFINED as the east-west main road that is planned to have 6 lanes, and yes Hunt up to the J-curve at Ellsworth is planned to have four lanes. But to have the four lanes built doesnt mean we need comerical along the entire road. And Empire/Hunt west of Ellsworth is planned to be a small two lanes road with eventually a center turn lane. So to try and build Hunt to the J-curve as a main way out of Pinal County is NOT smart planning. Gary and Ironwood north to where Riggs will eventually be should be the focus! Along with where the Williams Gateway Freeway will be. That is the best way to move traffic out of the area from an Engineering perspective.
From your moniker I have trouble realizing where you are coming from. Keep it Rural QC - as in Queen Creek or Quit Coming (through BLC sacred ground)? You are proposing shuttling all traffic out of Johnson Ranch to the north and then west right through the town of Queen Creek, ignoring the shorter "crow flies" route up Hunt to Ellworth, taking advantage of TOQC transportation improvements to protect the wishes of a very small community.
|
KeepItRural-QC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 03:31 pm |
|
| JJ - Its quit obvious that QC is not rural anymore ! Thats not the point, the point is that people need to be responsible with how this area grows, and consider the people that have lived here for 20+ years in this area. As well as newer people that move near the San Tans to get away from comercial and noise on every corner. There is aboslutely no reason this area can not control its growth in a responsible and conservative way. I have been around many areas of this country and have seen many smaller quieter areas near urban areas that people can live, and they dont have comercial on every corner and they dont have high property taxes to pay for it. Its does work. So lets get off this idea to fix things is to flatten the area and put up comercial to pay to widen a road. We have Riggs DEFINED as the east-west main road that is planned to have 6 lanes, and yes Hunt up to the J-curve at Ellsworth is planned to have four lanes. But to have the four lanes built doesnt mean we need comerical along the entire road. And Empire/Hunt west of Ellsworth is planned to be a small two lanes road with eventually a center turn lane. So to try and build Hunt to the J-curve as a main way out of Pinal County is NOT smart planning. Gary and Ironwood north to where Riggs will eventually be should be the focus! Along with where the Williams Gateway Freeway will be. That is the best way to move traffic out of the area from an Engineering perspective.
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:55 pm |
|
GK,
You need to get out of our state once in a while. Toll roads in Florida, Texas and many other states use a speed pass which is located in your car and records your road usage. Tolls are paid at the end of the month with a credit or debit card. No slowdown as you just drive through the toll plaza. The large swaths of land are the same land that would be used for any road expansion. Secondarily most toll roads are a private/public colaboration that get built faster and usually cheaper than if the government tries to do it alone. Nobody will force you to use the toll road system. You can still use the public freeways as you do now. Those of us that want an express route to where we are heading can pay extra for the convenience.
In case you did not notice more roads will have to be built to accomodate the people. How do you propose to build those roads with less money and less land? Or are you of the belief that the growth will just stop and there should not be a need for more roads?
gk wrote:
well sure as hell not something as dumb as toll roads
Toll roads take a large swath of property to implement, Toll roads would only slow the traffic stream to to a crawl to pay the toll, what part of common sense do yoiu not understand ?
This is by far the dumbest answwer I have ever heard from anyone
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:52 pm |
|
gk - And in case your concerned about ownership and oversight, I would propose these toll roads be developed, owned, and maintained by the good people of Pinal County - I would not accept foreign companies profiting from our investments in our infrastructure.
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:48 pm |
|
gk wrote: well sure as hell not something as dumb as toll roads
Toll roads take a large swath of property to implement, Toll roads would only slow the traffic stream to to a crawl to pay the toll, what part of common sense do yoiu not understand ?
This is by far the dumbest answwer I have ever heard from anyone
How much more property does a toll road require than any other freeway??? I wouldn't propose large toll plazas along our freeways.
Why would a toll road slow the traffic stream??? I'm not suggesting that we have toll plazas every other mile, rather tolls could be collected when entering the freeway - wouldn't necessarily slow traffic anymore than the metering lights already in use around much of the valley. Additionally, it would be possible to provide technology to allow frequent users to pay tolls automatically.
You may think my idea is the dumbest answer, but what is yours??? We shouldn't criticize the ideas of others if we are unwilling to offer our own ideas up for persecution.
|
gk
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tonga |
| Posts: | 1708 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 07:11 am |
|
well sure as hell not something as dumb as toll roads
Toll roads take a large swath of property to implement, Toll roads would only slow the traffic stream to to a crawl to pay the toll, what part of common sense do yoiu not understand ?
This is by far the dumbest answwer I have ever heard from anyone
Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 07:14 am by gk
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 05:15 am |
|
gk wrote: I hope you were not being serious about toll roads?
I was.
What's your serious proposal to get these roads built soon???
|
gk
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tonga |
| Posts: | 1708 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:53 am |
|
| I hope you were not being serious about toll roads?
|
anne.reed
Member
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:47 am |
|
JJohnson wrote:
KeepItRural-QC wrote: Bambi - there are better ways to have Hunt fixed or diverting traffic to other roads, than to say the fix will happen by allowing comercial along Hunt. The San Tan area is beautiful and you want to destroy it because Pinal county didnt plan ahead. I DONT think so. Maybe the push should be to get them to excel the build of the Williams Gateway Highway extension north of Germann.
The best highway at Gateway does nothing to move 46k+ people out of this area every day. The Hunt corridor is prime and logical commercial property. The spot zoning has only made the situation worse. At least with a genral commercial overlay easments and planning can be done to mitigate the future problems.
I hate to burst your bubble but QC is no longer rual. That designation has long been lost. The only thing that exists as rural now is the mentality of a few of you folks that think that the growth is magically going away.
West Hunt Highway is not intended to be a primary thoroughfare precisely because it is residential and rural. Riggs is slated to be the primary "southerly" east-west thoroughfare for this area. Most who live in the subdivisions takes Bella Vista to Gantzel/Ironwood or Gary to Sossaman/Queen Creek. Additionally, Empire is intended to move urban traffic.
No amount of infrastructure, or County attention, can prevent poor judgement by drivers. It is always a serious hazard, regardless of your location or the quality of the infrastructure.
Regards,
AnneLast edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 01:06 am by anne.reed
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:18 am |
|
Would anyone support these ideas???
1) If left to ADOT, the development of the AZ802 and AZ88 will not materialize for a long time. The county should consider moving these projects forward by bonding money to ultimately be repaid through the collection of tolls. Following repayment, the price of tolls should be set to fund maintenance of the subject roadway.
These projects should include a rapid, mass transit component within the freeway right-of-ways.
2) A source of funding must be identified to improve the local road infrastructure in the Hunt Highway area. This could be achieved in one of two ways:
a) With incorporation, the new community would be able to self-direct and self-fund improvements.
b) Without incorporation, the residents of the area might work with the county to identify the needed improvements, determine the costs of those improvements and then work to establish a special taxing district to provide funding – I expect you will obtain faster results if you directly fund the road improvements in your area. The projects could be built as funds are collected or bonds issued to expedite construction.
What do you think???
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 10:08 pm |
|
KeepItRural-QC wrote: Bambi - there are better ways to have Hunt fixed or diverting traffic to other roads, than to say the fix will happen by allowing comercial along Hunt. The San Tan area is beautiful and you want to destroy it because Pinal county didnt plan ahead. I DONT think so. Maybe the push should be to get them to excel the build of the Williams Gateway Highway extension north of Germann.
The best highway at Gateway does nothing to move 46k+ people out of this area every day. The Hunt corridor is prime and logical commercial property. The spot zoning has only made the situation worse. At least with a genral commercial overlay easments and planning can be done to mitigate the future problems.
I hate to burst your bubble but QC is no longer rual. That designation has long been lost. The only thing that exists as rural now is the mentality of a few of you folks that think that the growth is magically going away.
|
KeepItRural-QC
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 09:53 pm |
|
| Bambi - there are better ways to have Hunt fixed or diverting traffic to other roads, than to say the fix will happen by allowing comercial along Hunt. The San Tan area is beautiful and you want to destroy it because Pinal county didnt plan ahead. I DONT think so. Maybe the push should be to get them to excel the build of the Williams Gateway Highway extension north of Germann.
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:43 pm |
|
| I think we actually are in agreement on this issue. We were shown to be fools in trusting that Pinal County would do more than pass out building permits.
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:26 pm |
|
JJohnson wrote:
... I must say that there are certain things that you must have faith in. ...
Have faith in God, not government.
JJohnson wrote:
... The developers are not out selling their products to groups of people. They are selling to individuals so collective bargaining does not play a roll. ...
Still... Yugos were being sold to individuals and enough individuals chose other automobiles such that the Yugo is no longer sold in America.
JJohnson wrote:
... Since the county gave the stamp of approval for all of these projects a consumer should be able to assume that the basic rolls of government and planning were taken care of. ...
I can agree.
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:06 pm |
|
ajBookchin wrote: JJohnson wrote:
... A reasonable person can assume that the government...
Uhhh... do we want to go there???
If consumers had visited the development site and reasoned that the road infrastructure was inadequate and not purchased homes, the county and/or the developers would have been compelled to improve the infrastructure.
Conversely, why would a company, out to make the maximum profit possible, invest additional funds into infrastructure if consumers are purchasing their product without the improvements???
Consumers can be a powerful force if they act responsibly. You do not see anyone sell Yugos anymore, right???
Oh ya... my philosophy, never rely upon the government to do the right thing. And you've never heard that "thing" about... when you assume...
While I agree with you 90% I must say that there are certain things that you must have faith in. Hence the term "risk" comes into play. To me it is reasonable to think that a county government would have at least considered transportation in this process. As it turns out they did not and the "risk" happened and we lost. It is a really sad commentary when a government fails so bad that the people can't trust that the most basic of items that the government is responsible for is not taken care of.
While in theory the people/consumers have the power it is not practical. The developers are not out selling their products to groups of people. They are selling to individuals so collective bargaining does not play a roll. Since the county gave the stamp of approval for all of these projects a consumer should be able to assume that the basic rolls of government and planning were taken care of. Had they done something and it turned out wrong we could be mad and say one thing. However, the government did nothing and that is where the problem began.
Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 07:08 pm by JJohnson
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:41 pm |
|
JJohnson wrote:
... A reasonable person can assume that the government...
Uhhh... do we want to go there???
If consumers had visited the development site and reasoned that the road infrastructure was inadequate and not purchased homes, the county and/or the developers would have been compelled to improve the infrastructure.
Conversely, why would a company, out to make the maximum profit possible, invest additional funds into infrastructure if consumers are purchasing their product without the improvements???
Consumers can be a powerful force if they act responsibly. You do not see anyone sell Yugos anymore, right???
Oh ya... my philosophy, never rely upon the government to do the right thing. And you've never heard that "thing" about... when you assume...
Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 07:20 pm by ajBookchin
|
JJohnson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 418 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 04:36 pm |
|
ajBookchin wrote: There are virtually no routes in and out of the area when Hunt Highway is shut down.
And yet no one noticed this would be a problem before they purchased a home out there???
Interesting that you would bring up that point. The problem was already here when I purchased but talking to some of my neighbors they were of the thought that the infrastructure was being updated by the county. Who would ever believe that a large group of residents would be ignored and put into this position? To say they did not do their homework says that reasonable assumption can't be made. Is it not a reasonable assumption that a large slaughter house won't be built by the train tracks outside of JR? As a purchaser you can't contemplate every senario then use hindsight to accept the bad stuff. A reasonable person can assume that the government will take infrastructure into account while handing out building permits. Obviously our leaders have let us down.
|
Bambi
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 04:34 pm |
|
ajBookchin wrote: There are virtually no routes in and out of the area when Hunt Highway is shut down.
And yet no one noticed this would be a problem before they purchased a home out there???
People who purchase new homes out here or anywhere for that matter, depend on the "Public Report" to disclose those types of things. Were they disclosed? Probably not, as the salesmen and those who put the Report together (Title Companies legal officers), don't have any idea about that type of thing. They live in Phoenix.
When the developers arrived, who took them in? Pinal County via Stan Griffiths and George Johnson. Who counseled them? Pinal County and George Johnson. Who offered them percs if they would just build here and buy up all of George Johnsons lots in Johnson Ranch, Magma Ranch and others? Pinal County and George Johnson. What were those percs? Waiver of impact fees. Waiver of having to improve the front of their subdivisions along HUnt Hiway, leaving it two lanes with landscaping occupying the space where a lane of roadway would normally go. That would include Solera by Pulte and the others across the road. Pulte was the biggest benefactor of this waiver I believe, with Centex coming in second. No conscience.
Developers and Politicians just don't mix very well, in terms of meeting the people's needs. It's their own needs that seem to always get met for some reason. But that needs to stop now.
What I was told, and yet needs to be confirmed, is that the amount of those back impact fees amounts to $400,000,000. That will provide a whole lot of roadway.
Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 04:37 pm by Bambi
|
ajBookchin
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 170 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 04:23 pm |
|
There are virtually no routes in and out of the area when Hunt Highway is shut down.
And yet no one noticed this would be a problem before they purchased a home out there???
|
Bambi
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2259 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 04:05 pm |
|
QCVillager wrote: the "collateral damage" extends all the way to Town of Queen Creek and QCUSD. My daughter who goes to QC Middle Sch says all the buses were late to school. She thought it was mainly due to the overwhelming amount of traffic on Ellsworth and Rittenhouse, but turns out that was only part of the problem...
Edd Hennerley, the Queen Creek Unified School District’s transportation director, said he ended up driving a bus to get children to school because five drivers couldn’t make it to work.
“We told our office staff to forget what you’re doing,” he said. “We went out and got everything covered.”
You are exactly right QCV. It impacts the whole East Valley, as many people turned around instead of going in to work.
We must put Pinal County to Task on this. The people and the impacted cities need to speak out and get this resolved asap. Jeff. You are a council member of an impacted city. should you present this to your people for a remedy? If all those land owners that border Hunt were allowed to develop commercial on there, we could have the owners of the properties widen the road for us. But we sit, doing case by case/spot zoning theatrics, while the people die on that highway, because of it's small unsafe size. Let's quit listening to those crys of those that are alive and well, and only care about what they can hear and see in terms of noise. Try listening to the crys of the families who's children have died on that dangerous roadway. And I have 35 family members that drive that road daily. What are the odds?
I can't preach this loud enough as I have been doing for years now, and subsequently get put into a quiet place by politicians who don't want to listen to me, and don't want me making waves. The same politicians and staff that don't travel down Hunt Hiway, but travel to other cities with good roads. But I indend on keeping up this protest, until someone does something about it. Park Link Road has no people traveling on it, yet it gets a mile improved every year. Florence Kelvin Hiway, has very very few cars traveling on it, yet it gets improved a mile every year too. Where are our priorities? Convenience as opposed to safety?
Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 04:11 pm by Bambi
|
QCVillager
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 03:40 pm |
|
the "collateral damage" extends all the way to Town of Queen Creek and QCUSD. My daughter who goes to QC Middle Sch says all the buses were late to school. She thought it was mainly due to the overwhelming amount of traffic on Ellsworth and Rittenhouse, but turns out that was only part of the problem...
Edd Hennerley, the Queen Creek Unified School District’s transportation director, said he ended up driving a bus to get children to school because five drivers couldn’t make it to work.
“We told our office staff to forget what you’re doing,” he said. “We went out and got everything covered.”
|
QCVillager
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 03:31 pm |
|
| that is an awful lot of crashes for a short stretch of road !
|
QCVillager
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 03:31 pm |
|
see whole story here... http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/115711
|
Current time is 07:27 pm | |
|
