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gsbill
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 12:39 am |
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Char, why don't you put together a petition that details your neighbors complaints about current postal services and circulate it to your neighbors for signatures.
Dont waste your time Char. The postals service has been addressed at Queen Creek council meetings. The need for another post office is so obvious to everyone EXCEPT the USPS. They said it aint happening anytime soon about 6 months ago. This came from the guys mouth who makes the decisions for our entire western region.
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 10:40 pm |
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gk wrote: We seem to be forgetting some very basic issues here.
Gordon has the Constitutional right, and perhaps a moral obligation to be involved in his community in any way that he sees fit. All of us have that right. I seems to me that some would take that right away from him.
I see one very major difference here.......Gordon is not going around on a public forum and attacking any of you , nor is he claiming that you have no right to be involved in the community.
Lets try and rememberjust what we all are...........citizens who want to try and make a better community for all. Volunteers! Nothing more
.....forwarding my emails with attacking and beliittling comments, to developers, attorneys, supervisor, etc. and who knows else. That's ok? I'm in the business world; I'm not retired yet or on any kind of disability. I work. I can't afford to have an empowered GSTAC Leader or an empowered Citizen Advisory Committee leader, who happens to be the same guy, discredit me out here. Yet it is happening. I have shown you the evidence. It has effected my pocketbook. None of you (Anne, Gordon, Gene, ?) know how this business world in development operates in today's world, yet you have your hands right in the middle of it; you're all retired or on disability.
But effecting it you are, as you have effected other business's out here, in a negative way. I have enough problems to keep afloat....at 65, I can't get another job; plus I'm a female. Two strikes against me, so I must continue in my business of 30 years. Only, someone is smearing my business out here by discrediting me and falsifying information about me to people in my trade..... and it needs to be stopped. It took me 30 years to build this business up, not to have it destroyed out here by some yahoo.
Perhaps I need to ask Dale's attorneys to take a look at my case....we'll then see who has been empowered. Dale had to protect his business from being destroyed by "empowered" people. Dale did the right thing. So will I. He won. So will I.
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 11:15 pm by Bambi
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anne.reed
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:51 pm |
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CharWester wrote:
Ok, so what about GSTAC? This is a bit discouraging as I have sent emails to Anne immediately following the last GSTAC meeting, I asked her when our District, Disctrict 1, would be meeting to discuss issues that are effecting our area. She responded a few days ago telling me that nothing was going on and that she would let me know when the next meeting was. So, I guess Gordon is working on his own? That really defeats the purpose of GSTAC. Didn't we just have a Unity Event? Where is the Unity? This is not just Gordon's community? We need to work together on issues, as that allows for a better sense of belonging to a community, not a dictatorship. In a dictatorship, the leaders state that they are doing what is best for the people, without the input from the people. That is not the American Way! So, while I appreciate what Gordon is doing for our community, I really wish he would include more of us to help. I am going around talking to my neighbors about getting involved, yet I feel their may be nothing to get involved with. We have a major issue with the mail delivery system out here in District 1, who will help with this? Who do I go to? I feel if I take it to Gordon he will do what he thinks is best. How will he do this without input from the people it is effecting? And I would take it to GSTAC, but how? Would it just be handed off to Gordon? This is just becoming so confusing, and all of this is making it difficult for me to explain to my fellow community members. Do you see where I am coming from 2Cents and Anne? We need to be more inclusive, and in a democratic fashion as you stated Anne in the email that you sent out which can be viewed on our website at OurSanTanFoothills.org.
As for the Advisory Committee, does that give Gordon the power to speak for the people? I understand that they work together on issues, the problem is nobody really knows what is going on. Just Gordon and Anne I guess. I talk to alot of people and they really feel abandoned by our government out here. So, doesn't that tell you that Gordon is missing a major step, COMMUNICATION with THE PEOPLE!!! Quite a few people in the rurals don't even know who Gordon is, yet he is making a lot of decisions on their behalf. Does that make sense?
I think at this point that I will talk with my neighbors and we will work directly with the county until GSTAC is prepared to work with the community. I will wait to hear from Anne I guess, or Ed, as they are District 1 Leaders. I have never heard one thing from Ed, just Anne. Anne, I appreciate your efforts and believe that for the most part you really try to include others, can you work to get a little more UNITY out here? I have friends/clients on Adobe Dam that had no idea Gordon was working on anything. Isn't that strange?
VOTE 4 BRYAN MARTYN!!!! He has assured me that he will work with the citizens of this community, whether they are members of a group or not. He will not give the power to one person. So, I urge my fellow community members to not be discouraged and hang in there. I really believe that GSTAC will work, once the power is given to the people, there just has to be people to VOTE!!!! So, show up to the next meeting. Go to GSTAC site and request more information be posted on the site. Request meetings and COMMUNITY UNITY!!!
Dear Char:
I sincerely apologize for the delays in getting GSTAC up and running in it's final form. As you know, we are comprised of volunteers (many are working, running businesses and involved in other civic organizations, in addition to their GSTAC duties) slowing down the full implementation of the program. We have been working with the webmaster to enhance the communications network, and the district representatives are just getting their feet wet. Your patience and participation are greatly appreciated. I am willing to meet with anyone, anytime, anywhere to discuss issues we face in District 1. Please feel free to contact me at any time if a problem in District 1 is not being addressed, if you would like my help or need the support of GSTAC, in any way.
What is the problem with the mail service you are experiencing? I find our carriers to be less than reliable, is this what you mean? Our mail lady has been struggling with some chronic disease. While I am very sympathetic to her problem, the post office must take responsibility for providing rural residents the same standard of service that exists within town limits. Otherwise, they should notify us so we can make other arrangements to assure that we receive our mail, and can count on mail pickup, on a timely basis.
Char, why don't you put together a petition that details your neighbors complaints about current postal services and circulate it to your neighbors for signatures. (I can't write the petition since I don't know the problem you're having until I am advised). Take a few extras so they can pass them out to their friends and associates who are also experiencing difficulties. Send me a copy as well, so I can distribute to other neighborhood leaders for signatures. If you have suggestions to alleviate the problem, please include possible solutions in our correspondence. Once we've obtained sufficient signatures to show this problem is widespread and ongoing, I will take our complaints to the post office and to GSTAC. I feel confident that this will minimize, if not eliminate, our postal delivery problems.
Regards,
Anne
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gk
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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We seem to be forgetting some very basic issues here.
Gordon has the Constitutional right, and perhaps a moral obligation to be involved in his community in any way that he sees fit. All of us have that right. I seems to me that some would take that right away from him.
I see one very major difference here.......Gordon is not going around on a public forum and attacking any of you , nor is he claiming that you have no right to be involved in the community.
Lets try and rememberjust what we all are...........citizens who want to try and make a better community for all. Volunteers! Nothing more
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 07:13 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Now that makes sense, you make an unfounded statement and I'm supposed to prove it? That leads me to the conclusion that what you say is nothing more than a 'haboob', a lot of wind and dust and nothing more.
Thank you for showing everyone the truth Ms. Haboob.
And I did check with the County, via a friend that knows someone in planning, they DO NOT send zoning cases to Gordon, or anyone else, for input unless they are within the surrounding area that is to be notified. Those that show up at Commission and BOS meetings can have input. Local area meetings are another vehicle by which the County seeks input from concerned citizens. Gordon is no more special and receives no more opportunity for input than any other concerned citizen of the County. This is how it was put to me.
So long 'haboob'.
2
You just wrote the statement below, yet above, you contradict yourself. Perhaps I had the facts straight after all.
"...Gordon needs no blessing from anyone when zoning cases are forwarded to him for input. His blessing comes from the Supervisor that appointed him
2"
Regards,
Habooboo
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 07:15 pm by Bambi
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 06:09 pm |
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Like I said......he's in everything since the beginning.
Monopoly: Total Control thru legal privilidge.
Please reveal yourself 2 cents, as you are defending him thruout this forum. stop...hiding.
Although, thanks to his representation, our present economic condition is nothing to brag about. What positive has he done for us....San Tan Flats? I wouldn't be proud of being on that committee for this long and witness the mess we are in because of lack of development and leadership by these reps. All this demonstates to me is that he has been a rep. for too long and we're even in a worse condition because of it. What involvment has Rosebrook had? what does he know about what's going on? Why isn't he communicating with the people out here. The lady on there. Let's find out how much she knows about our area. Wonder how often they meet? How can G. serve on an advisory committee, and not touch base with the people he is supposed to be representing? Anyone been to one of his meetings to seek out our concerns so he can advise the BOS about our concerns? None. He decides and advises.
What a Farce.
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 06:34 pm by Bambi
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CharWester
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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Ok, so what about GSTAC? This is a bit discouraging as I have sent emails to Anne immediately following the last GSTAC meeting, I asked her when our District, Disctrict 1, would be meeting to discuss issues that are effecting our area. She responded a few days ago telling me that nothing was going on and that she would let me know when the next meeting was. So, I guess Gordon is working on his own? That really defeats the purpose of GSTAC. Didn't we just have a Unity Event? Where is the Unity? This is not just Gordon's community? We need to work together on issues, as that allows for a better sense of belonging to a community, not a dictatorship. In a dictatorship, the leaders state that they are doing what is best for the people, without the input from the people. That is not the American Way! So, while I appreciate what Gordon is doing for our community, I really wish he would include more of us to help. I am going around talking to my neighbors about getting involved, yet I feel their may be nothing to get involved with. We have a major issue with the mail delivery system out here in District 1, who will help with this? Who do I go to? I feel if I take it to Gordon he will do what he thinks is best. How will he do this without input from the people it is effecting? And I would take it to GSTAC, but how? Would it just be handed off to Gordon? This is just becoming so confusing, and all of this is making it difficult for me to explain to my fellow community members. Do you see where I am coming from 2Cents and Anne? We need to be more inclusive, and in a democratic fashion as you stated Anne in the email that you sent out which can be viewed on our website at OurSanTanFoothills.org.
As for the Advisory Committee, does that give Gordon the power to speak for the people? I understand that they work together on issues, the problem is nobody really knows what is going on. Just Gordon and Anne I guess. I talk to alot of people and they really feel abandoned by our government out here. So, doesn't that tell you that Gordon is missing a major step, COMMUNICATION with THE PEOPLE!!! Quite a few people in the rurals don't even know who Gordon is, yet he is making a lot of decisions on their behalf. Does that make sense?
I think at this point that I will talk with my neighbors and we will work directly with the county until GSTAC is prepared to work with the community. I will wait to hear from Anne I guess, or Ed, as they are District 1 Leaders. I have never heard one thing from Ed, just Anne. Anne, I appreciate your efforts and believe that for the most part you really try to include others, can you work to get a little more UNITY out here? I have friends/clients on Adobe Dam that had no idea Gordon was working on anything. Isn't that strange?
VOTE 4 BRYAN MARTYN!!!! He has assured me that he will work with the citizens of this community, whether they are members of a group or not. He will not give the power to one person. So, I urge my fellow community members to not be discouraged and hang in there. I really believe that GSTAC will work, once the power is given to the people, there just has to be people to VOTE!!!! So, show up to the next meeting. Go to GSTAC site and request more information be posted on the site. Request meetings and COMMUNITY UNITY!!!
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 06:12 pm by CharWester
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2 cents
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 05:44 pm |
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This might explain some things. No more info from friends of friends.
PINAL COUNTY COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN
Adopted by
THE PINAL COUNTY BOARD OF
SUPERVISORS
December 19, 2001
Amended 09/25/02
Amended 12/03/03
Amended 12/01/04
Amended 12/30/05
Amended 11/29/06
Amended 11/28/07
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
The Pinal County Comprehensive Plan was made possible by the cooperative efforts of
the Pinal County Board of Supervisors, the Planning and Zoning Commission, the Citizen
Advisory Committee, the Technical Advisory Team, and staff of the Planning and
Development Services Department. Pinal County would like to extend its appreciation to
all the citizens, property owners, community organizations, non-governmental
organizations, businesses, cities, towns, Indian communities, state agencies, and federal
agencies whose diligent participation throughout the planning process has been
instrumental in the development of this Plan.
BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
District 1 District 2 District 3
Lionel Ruiz Sandie Smith David Snider
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
District 1 District 2 District 3
Mary Aguirre-Vogler Ray Harlan, Vice-Chairman Pat Dugan
Dixon Faucette George Johnston Kate Kenyon, Chairman
Frank Salas Scott Riggins Phillip McD Hartman
2001 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer Terry Fitzgerald Chuck Hartin
Harold Christ Shelly Donnelly Lanna Mesenbrink
Ron Reinagel Jim Tucker David Waldron
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Bobbie Johnson
Tina Dixon Mike Gantzel
Area 2
Al Gugenberger David Towle Bob Meyer
Shirley Ann Hartman Olivia Rodriquez Alma Farrell
Dr. J. Klein Charlie Weaver Art Carlton
Area 3
Peter VillaVerde Katie Montano Jolene Johnson
Arlene Kile Phil Hogue Debbie Rice
Marilyn Bates
Area 4A
John Ycedo Gilberto Ruiz Yolanda Guzman
Jean Schwennesen Gina Lopez Ignacio Godinez
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Dawn Doubek Charlie Clark
Gene Osborn Dave Collingwood Art Verdugo
Ann Woodin
2002 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer Chuck Hartin Jim Tucker
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Bobbie Johnson
Area 2
Charlie Weaver Art Carlton David Towle
Area 3
Katie Montano Arlene Kile Peter Villaverde
Area 4A
John Ycedo Gina Lopez Ignacio Godinez
Area 4B
Dave Collingwood Charlie Clark Jo Buttery
2003 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer Jim Tucker
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Bobbie Johnson
Area 2
David Towle Charlie Weaver Art Carlton
Area 3
Katie Montano Arlene Kile Peter Villaverde
Area 4A
John Ycedo Gina Lopez Ignacio Godinez
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Charlie Clark Dave Collingwood
2004 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer Jim Tucker
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Bobbie Johnson
Area 2
David Towle Charlie Weaver Art Carlton
Shirley Ann Hartman
Area 3
Katie Montano Arlene Kile Peter Villaverde
Area 4A
John Ycedo Gina Lopez Ignacio Godinez
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Dennis Mann
2005 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer John T. Enright
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook
Area 2
David Towle Charlie Weaver Shirley Ann Hartman
Area 3
John Trainor Shelly Martinez Richard Horton
Area 4A
Gina Lopez
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Gayle Carnes Karl Foster
Ed Snyder
2006 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer John T. Enright
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Kathy Esposito
Area 2
David Towle Charlie Weaver Shirley Ann Hartman
Area 3
Richard Horton
Area 4A
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Gayle Carnes Karl Foster
2007 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Area 1A
Rosemary Shearer John T. Enright Ed Braunger
Area 1B
Gordon Brown Alden Rosbrook Kathy Esposito
Area 2
David Towle Charlie Weaver Shirley Ann Hartman
Area 3
Richard Horton Paul Sabel Mary Jo Rideout
Area 4A
Gayle Carnes Pamela Rabago
Area 4B
Jo Buttery Pat Moore John Benavidez
This is an excerpt and explains why Gordon needs no blessing from anyone when zoning cases are forwarded to him for input. His blessing comes from the Supervisor that appointed him
2
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 05:48 pm by 2 cents
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 04:05 pm |
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http://www.ourgstac.com
Now go to the site, and check with the Districts....1 thru 9. Only 2 Districts are represented on there as it appears.....District 1, which is the Santans. and District 2, which is San Tan Heights. No committee members are mentioned. Go to the news for those districts.nothing. Yet we know that things are going on, as Anne mentioned Gordon was working with the County on the flooding issues out there.
Now go to District 9. Castlegate, and others. Where the 802 is a problem. No committee people....no news, yet we know that Gordon is indeed representing GSTAC there concerning the 802 Freeway alignment, according to Anne.
Now go to the meetings....future meetings to be held. Well, I checked out all the months, till December of 08, and see nothing mentioned.
Then I go to Notifications; All old meetings held back in April.
Pecan Creek district 8. No mention of resolving the J.U. problem with the ecoli and hepatitis issues.. Is it because they are trying to woo Johnson into their fold and as Anne mentioned, J.U. is a major stakeholder out here, so should be recognized? In other words, don't ruffle his feathers. I don't intend on ruffling his feathers....I plan on plucking them out.
So, the purpose states that gstac is there to Unite and empower the citizens. So when do you plan on doing that? Only one I see empowered presently is Gordon. No list of activities going on. Who are the members; none mentioned. The Slate is pretty clean I would say. Great incentive to join. No information except what GSTAC is all about. Lacks evidence though to back it up....show us your successes/accomplishments. Tell us what's going on in the district in your district news cast. Start sharing. The citizens want to know what you are doing under that guise.
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 04:51 pm by Bambi
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 03:25 pm |
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starleen wrote: anne.reed wrote:
Leaving history and personalities aside, isn't it the flooding of Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch folks the real issue we should be discussing?
Is this flooding issue the incident of the 100 year storm last summer where Dixon Lane received flood deluge due to failure of an adjacent resident fence (not in the subdivision), which was contructed across a natural wash and during a monsoon rain accumulated so much debris that it finally failed and sent the backup into Bonanza Ranch?
Yes. And it appears those people are no longer in that home.
But, it is still a problem. Sorry....all you'll get from me is vitriolic sludge in a cesspool, so don't step in it.... as per Gordon. You will have to contact him to find out what is going on in the San Tans. I am not privy....even though I live here. Even joining GSTAC won't help, as my daughter is a committee leader for district 1 and she is in the dark about what is happening. Seems her partner/committee persons Anne, Ed Guerra and Bob Dotson (all BLC members)know more than Char does, and are not sharing. Sound familiar?
It will never stop, unless a Supervisor gets in that sees just what is going on here....micromanaging our destiny, without others input....not sharing. exclusivity still reigns supreme in that "same" group of BLC'rs. As pipeman stated earlier...nothing is going to change with the same players in operation...he was right. Char.....you're a token. Sorry. But stick with it; bring others into the fold so it can be democratic, as it isn't yet.
Of the three candidates running, only one has taken a stand against Gordon Brown and his practices....Todd House.
What say ye Todd, Bryan and Danielle about this man/group? Will you "recognize" him and continue sending him our zoning cases? Will you continue allowing spot zoning on Hunt? Will you recognize GSTAC's (Gordons) determination on cases? And, if that determination proves wrong, as it did in SanTanFlats, will you take the responsibility of that wrong determination?
Maybe it's best to leave it in the hands of the GSTAC resident/members. Maybe they will be his undoing, as he is "representing" their views in everything he does out there, so hopefully they will demand that he share with them on their behalf.....starting with now. Has another meeting been called yet, or is it being "strung" out to allow G. to continue his singular representation. He's deceptive so keep an eye on him.
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pipeman
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 03:13 pm |
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anne.reed wrote: Dear B:
Are you referring to the meeting that took place at the Park with Mission Properties and many residents of the Adobe Dam area? If so, I'd be interested to hear from your "witness" as the scenario you recount barely resembles the meeting that I attended.
It's true there was a heated verbal exchange between you and Gordon, brought on when you asked him to leave saying, "You don't represent us!". His response and tone were equally aggressive but the meeting eventually turned to the flooding problems being experienced by the Adobe Dam folks and the hostility took a back seat to the issues, as it should.
Since that time, Gordon arranged a "no cost" assessment of the drainage problems in the Bonanza Ranch/Adobe Dam area. This study was the volunteered work product of another concerned citizen from our area, a retired civil engineer. After the study was completed, Gordon arranged an onsite meeting with the engineer and the County to discuss the proposal. Last word I received, the proposal was under review. The wheels of government always turn slowly. I don't know if the plan has been accepted or rejected.
You may not like Gordon Brown personally, but, only those who don't know of his many accomplishments on behalf of this community could question his honorable intentions. He is a staunch advocate for all community residents and his desire is to resolve their problems. It is not Gordons place to resplve the communities problems, That is the professionals job, Gordon is NOT a professional, He has created Havoc with his actions and lack of knowledge of things. Tell him to keep his arse out of areas he don't belong. (Also, in the 12 years I've known Gordon, I've not known him to plead with anyone to veil his behavior-especially to his wife or the church!) He's proven to them, many times over, that he is as gentle as a lamb but is willing to fight for what he believes. He believes there are solutions to the issues we face.
What has anyone else done to assist these homeowners? It's easy to sit back and rail against those who dare entangle themselves in difficult issues. But how many people in that room have enlisted professional volunteers and made concrete suggestions to alleviate the flooding? Only one, Gordon Brown. Were it not for Gordon's heart for the people of his community he wouldn't subject himself to the insults of his critics, he'd just sit back and watch our area be overrun. Why not recognize him for what he is? He can't make everything right, no one can. But at least give him credit for trying and honor his many successes.
I can't speak for GSTAC as a whole, but my personal opinion regarding Mr. Johnson's relationship with GSTAC is: George Johnson IS a major stakeholder in the Greater San Tan Area. Success of the GSTAC will require the focused efforts of ALL stakeholders. WHAT?????? Please tell all these readers on this board that you are kidding... Please aplogize to all these readers for getting up early in the morning and hitting the crack pipe. Major stakeholder? After all these years of screwing this community over, how in Gods great name can you publically make a claim like this to many many people who are effected by this man and his cold caculated mind? This is the man who contaminated the Sanata Cruz river and then put animals in cages along the highway to represent those that squealed on him........remember people? If you and the GSTAC are serious about wanting people to join, follow, become a part of, stand behind, stand up for, promote, allow (for which I will NOT), then you best look at who you have on the core team, who you have on the extended team. When is the next public meeting of GSTAC? As a standinmg member of this community, I want to call for a public vote. The vote to replace every last person on the core team and a vote for the district reps. It is a community council right? We are the community right? Then a vote is what we want. We want to vote now, we want our voice heard, and the voice is a vote. You tell your core group that. Infighting is never productive. We will have differences of opinion, but, we have more in common than we've previously acknowledged. We all have a strong desire to see the Greater San Tan Area prosper, to see the flooding on Adobe Dam corrected and to protect Castlegate residents from a poorly planned freeway route. If we throw out the issues upon which we cannot agree and direct our efforts to those issues on which we can form a consensus, our chances of success are greatly enhanced. We can speak with a single voice, commanding the attention of the entities which threaten to engulf us.
The Castlegate folks, who came out in mass (about 500) to protest the proposed Option 4 alignment of the new freeway, are working with GSTAC to resolve their problem. A meeting with ADOT, Queen Creek and Pinal County is in the works and I feel quite certain that Option 4 will be permanently abandoned after all have heard the concerns of these residents. This solution reflects the comprehensive approach to problem solving that GSTAC promotes. Sadly, until people feel an imminent threat to their property or property rights, they don't tend to get involved. However, when they do feel threatened, GSTAC is here, to hear their concerns, and in this case, to facilitate meetings designed to resolve their concerns and to bring to bear the full force of their united support of area residents.
GSTAC is a simple and an effective tool for the citizens of this area who long to be acknowledged and seek self governance.
Regards,
Anne
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starleen
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:45 am |
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anne.reed wrote:
Leaving history and personalities aside, isn't it the flooding of Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch folks the real issue we should be discussing?
Is this flooding issue the incident of the 100 year storm last summer where Dixon Lane received flood deluge due to failure of an adjacent resident fence (not in the subdivision), which was contructed across a natural wash and during a monsoon rain accumulated so much debris that it finally failed and sent the backup into Bonanza Ranch?
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 11:18 pm |
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anne.reed wrote: Dear Bambi:
Leaving history and personalities aside, isn't it the flooding of Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch folks the real issue we should be discussing?
We all seek to resolve this crisis, so on this particular issue we are all on the same side, right? We all support improved infrastructure for drainage in the Foothills and "flooding relief" for the folks from Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch.
I imagine you also support the folks in Castlegate whose property rights are threatened by the alignment of the new freeway, right? So, you are not completely opposed to the mission of GSTAC, right?
I repeat, we are all stakeholders in this area and though we won't agree on every issue, we all want better education, improved transportation corridors, increased public safety and we share many other goals that can be defined, weighed and acted upon. Can't we put aside past grievances and work together to improve the future of the Greater San Tan Area?
Your opinions are important to me and I will be happy to bring any concerns about issues you might have to the GSTAC table. I promise you that I will fairly represent your point of view to the committee and it's members. I want your ideas on what would improve the Greater San Tan Area. If they are shared by most residents of District 1, I feel confident that we can resolve most issues.
Kind Regards,
Anne
Regards,
Anne
Anne. At this point in time, I know your intentions are sincere. I don't disagree with GSTAC. In fact, I have encouraged people to join it. It was the meeting at my place that brought GSTAC two families who have since joined your group. Families who were going to work with me on incorporation. I have encouraged these families to continue and stay involved with GSTAC, as without them, they will have no representation for their district.
But it's not you who is runnig the show either. You and Char are District 1 reps. How is it that you know they were working on and came up with a resolution to that flooding problem in that district and Char doesn't even know what has been going on? She still doesn't, as I have not yet disclosed it to her. Not my responsibility. It's yours and GSTACs, and nothing should be going on without those district reps knowledge....do the other two guys who are also the district 1 reps know about this drainage problem resolution? Of course they must, since their names are Ed Guerra and Bob ? the guy who wanted to take the name San Tan Foothills for his little area. Now, how can I have confidence in this district 1, with 3 friends of Gordons and little ole Char running the show? Three against one. All former BLC members, but Char.
This is the type of action that causes the disconnects with Gordon and his group. One man band. The cards are stacked. How many new members have you taken on in District one? When is your next meeting? Who can attend?
It's not the message Anne. It's the messenger..... G. My legal contact is the elected Supervisor, and it will remain that way until elections for GSTAC, by the populace, has brought forth an elected official to represent us. Not before that, can you say you represent me.
Now, let's enjoy the rest of the day. I've been showing homes half the day and on here the other half, so I'm off to rest. This is not meant against you. This is me using my free speech rights, to vent my concerns. Listen. you said you would. Now take it to the GSTAC table. Let's see their response, or if they even recognize my concerns.
Last edited on Sat Jun 14th, 2008 11:21 pm by Bambi
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anne.reed
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 10:51 pm |
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Dear Bambi:
Leaving history and personalities aside, isn't it the flooding of Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch folks the real issue we should be discussing?
We all seek to resolve this crisis, so on this particular issue we are all on the same side, right? We all support improved infrastructure for drainage in the Foothills and "flooding relief" for the folks from Adobe Dam and Bonanza Ranch.
I imagine you also support the folks in Castlegate whose property rights are threatened by the alignment of the new freeway, right? So, you are not completely opposed to the mission of GSTAC, right?
I repeat, we are all stakeholders in this area and though we won't agree on every issue, we all want better education, improved transportation corridors, increased public safety and we share many other goals that can be defined, weighed and acted upon. Can't we put aside past grievances and work together to improve the future of the Greater San Tan Area?
Your opinions are important to me and I will be happy to bring any concerns about issues you might have to the GSTAC table. I promise you that I will fairly represent your point of view to the committee and it's members. I want your ideas on what would improve the Greater San Tan Area. If they are shared by most residents of District 1, I feel confident that we can resolve most issues.
Kind Regards,
Anne
Regards,
Anne
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 09:45 pm |
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Obviously, you don't really know Gordon Brown. If you did, you would not be stating the fallacies you are making. Sorry, but I believe the person who was there and was talking with him about it, as I walked by. That individual doesn't know how to lie. I took that resident/person home that night.
Ask Gordon. See what kind of answer he gives you then bring it back on here....ok?
He does not represent me in any fashion out here. Let the County know that, since it appears you have a good relationship with them.
You see, Char and I were working on the Drainage problem too, with the County, but they soon stopped calling us. I see why now. Gordon supercedes everything else. He is shaping this area for us, without our knowledge, to conform to his desires. That's reckless. It's reckless that he is engaged in this without involving others in the community....one man show with his ideas and plans being put in place. Is he representing GSTAC? Why isn't he involving them?
He's representing the Developers. I have his email to them....not one person on that email address was a resident out here, except for the Perrys. It was sent to Rose law firm. Mission Properties Developer. Jerold Stabley. Bill and Joan Perry. Sandie Smith. Barbara Slagel with netcom. rbednar at Cox.
It was a copy of an email that I had sent out to the residents out here, informing them of the meeting and the zoning case with Mission Property's developers. Here is the "Churchman's" remarks about my email, on that email he sent out to his "friends."
To All:
"I found the following email to be quite thought provoking, but quickly regained the capacity for more rational thought. However, factual untruth floated in a pit of vitriolic sludge is attractive to a particular audience. And, unless everyone knows where the cesspool is, they can inadvertently "step in it" So, here it is."
Gordon.....
That's the guy you attend Church with every Sunday Anne. Sound like a good Christian to you? He came to that meeting at the Park with hostility and intent and threw his power around to control it. That's why I confronted him. You're being "used."
George Johnson? You best not be in the way of the people at that YMCA event. You'll find out there who your friends are...and aren't, depending on whose side you are on. I have entertained 10 calls so far from people regarding the invitation by the Chamber....you know. the one you and Gordon go to even though you are not paying members. Now you're entrenched in that Organization too. Anyway, the people are insulted by that invitation. Is the Chamber blind? Stand up on your principles. The Chamber took a stand against me when I contradicted the intent of the Core member, Gordon Brown. Now, they should take a stand against this guy, who abuses his power, and put's people in harms way.
Let's hear you and Gordon and Sandie Smith and Mission Properties and Rose Law Firm, and all the rest of the special interest that cozy up to Georgie Boy, take a stand against him. You can't be for the people and be for his way of operating.....period. So, that's the biggest reason your GSTAC has little credibility at this point. No guts to stand up for the people.
Now who is involved with Castlegate on the 802 problem? Who is representing GSTAC to the people in that area? Gordon? The same person who represented the people on the SanTanFlats issue? Do they know this?
Last edited on Sat Jun 14th, 2008 10:23 pm by Bambi
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anne.reed
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 06:42 pm |
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Dear B:
Are you referring to the meeting that took place at the Park with Mission Properties and many residents of the Adobe Dam area? If so, I'd be interested to hear from your "witness" as the scenario you recount barely resembles the meeting that I attended.
It's true there was a heated verbal exchange between you and Gordon, brought on when you asked him to leave saying, "You don't represent us!". His response and tone were equally aggressive but the meeting eventually turned to the flooding problems being experienced by the Adobe Dam folks and the hostility took a back seat to the issues, as it should.
Since that time, Gordon arranged a "no cost" assessment of the drainage problems in the Bonanza Ranch/Adobe Dam area. This study was the volunteered work product of another concerned citizen from our area, a retired civil engineer. After the study was completed, Gordon arranged an onsite meeting with the engineer and the County to discuss the proposal. Last word I received, the proposal was under review. The wheels of government always turn slowly. I don't know if the plan has been accepted or rejected.
You may not like Gordon Brown personally, but, only those who don't know of his many accomplishments on behalf of this community could question his honorable intentions. He is a staunch advocate for all community residents and his desire is to resolve their problems. (Also, in the 12 years I've known Gordon, I've not known him to plead with anyone to veil his behavior-especially to his wife or the church!) He's proven to them, many times over, that he is as gentle as a lamb but is willing to fight for what he believes. He believes there are solutions to the issues we face.
What has anyone else done to assist these homeowners? It's easy to sit back and rail against those who dare entangle themselves in difficult issues. But how many people in that room have enlisted professional volunteers and made concrete suggestions to alleviate the flooding? Only one, Gordon Brown. Were it not for Gordon's heart for the people of his community he wouldn't subject himself to the insults of his critics, he'd just sit back and watch our area be overrun. Why not recognize him for what he is? He can't make everything right, no one can. But at least give him credit for trying and honor his many successes.
I can't speak for GSTAC as a whole, but my personal opinion regarding Mr. Johnson's relationship with GSTAC is: George Johnson IS a major stakeholder in the Greater San Tan Area. Success of the GSTAC will require the focused efforts of ALL stakeholders. Infighting is never productive. We will have differences of opinion, but, we have more in common than we've previously acknowledged. We all have a strong desire to see the Greater San Tan Area prosper, to see the flooding on Adobe Dam corrected and to protect Castlegate residents from a poorly planned freeway route. If we throw out the issues upon which we cannot agree and direct our efforts to those issues on which we can form a consensus, our chances of success are greatly enhanced. We can speak with a single voice, commanding the attention of the entities which threaten to engulf us.
The Castlegate folks, who came out in mass (about 500) to protest the proposed Option 4 alignment of the new freeway, are working with GSTAC to resolve their problem. A meeting with ADOT, Queen Creek and Pinal County is in the works and I feel quite certain that Option 4 will be permanently abandoned after all have heard the concerns of these residents. This solution reflects the comprehensive approach to problem solving that GSTAC promotes. Sadly, until people feel an imminent threat to their property or property rights, they don't tend to get involved. However, when they do feel threatened, GSTAC is here, to hear their concerns, and in this case, to facilitate meetings designed to resolve their concerns and to bring to bear the full force of their united support of area residents.
GSTAC is a simple and an effective tool for the citizens of this area who long to be acknowledged and seek self governance.
Regards,
Anne
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 01:45 pm |
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Question for GSTAC. Are you negotiating with George Johnson? I understand you called him to attend your meeting....or Sandi Smith called him at one of your meetings.
Since this falls under representing our needs, have you spoken to George Johnson about this vicious attack on our health and welfare, via the many faults in his treatment and delivery system? Are you currently representing the people's needs? That is community unity......
Myself? Tell your people who have suggested that I do nothing for my community, that I have been working on removing George Johnson for years now, while you have been courting him to your group. Looks like the way I have been suggesting, confrontational, is going to do the job......"removal from the scene of the accident." No sweet talk and pussyfooting around and calling him for his help ....we don't want his help. We want him to do his job for the people. We Demand It. You should be too.
Let's hear it. What are you doing for the citizens of this community as you call them to service for the community? What are you doing about Johnson Utilities flagrant violations? Have you confronted him yet on our behalf? Have you spoken to all the government services on our behalf? Or are you still waiting for him to call you back?
Our rescuer's? The press....Sarah. Guess your our leader now Sarah. You certainly have brought me confidence. We'll get him out of here if it's the last thing we do. See you Monday.
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Bambi
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Posted: Thu Jun 12th, 2008 09:29 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Now that makes sense, you make an unfounded statement and I'm supposed to prove it? That leads me to the conclusion that what you say is nothing more than a 'haboob', a lot of wind and dust and nothing more.
Thank you for showing everyone the truth Ms. Haboob.
And I did check with the County, via a friend that knows someone in planning, they DO NOT send zoning cases to Gordon, or anyone else, for input unless they are within the surrounding area that is to be notified. Those that show up at Commission and BOS meetings can have input. Local area meetings are another vehicle by which the County seeks input from concerned citizens. Gordon is no more special and receives no more opportunity for input than any other concerned citizen of the County. This is how it was put to me.
So long 'haboob'.
2
Easy to call names and make accusations when you are hiding behind your mother's skirt....ficticious name shields your identity. No reason to believe a word you say. You do sound familiar though...I'll leave it at that
When Gordon pleads with a fellow resident who attended the meeting where Gordon and I had the altercation at the Park, to not tell his wife or church what he did, it only leads me to believe that he is not only deceiving us, but his own wife and church and possibly anyone else who is associated with him. Deception is the tool he uses to portray himself as the Messiah, and to portray people like me who disputes his skills and intents, as a person of bad character, as he did in the email to his followers about the ficticious meeting held in a neighborhood by me, to undermine the County and bring creadance to his cause. Lies and deceit promote his agenda. If Gordon feels this is not true, then come on here please and dispute it....but remember, the individual who witnessed it and spoke to you about it, will be reading your post.
As far as the email where Ed G. is talking about those zoning cases down at Hunt and Ellsworth, and sending it out to his followers, I am still looking for it. I will put it on here when I discover it, then you can take it to the County and call them deceivers; telling you they don't send anything to Gordon and Ed and the group....If you don't take the email to them, then I will. Then we will discover just who called them to ask that question.....and it won't be the name 2 cents.
I am here to speak and discover the truth and to remove the obstacles and interference we have been experiencing from these guys for years. SanTanFlats is the icing on the cake. Gordon's history and the history and intent of George Johnson....both entities who have interfered in our advancement into the world of services on behalf of the people.....both are tone deaf to the people's will....but not much longer.
If I am wrong....then Gordon or 2 cents....discover the truth and bring it on here.
Thanks Ben and Char.
Last edited on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 09:38 pm by Bambi
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CharWester
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Posted: Thu Jun 12th, 2008 04:04 am |
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FYI:
I have met with a certain Pinal County Official that has told me that often times when someone is applying for a zoning change etc. they suggest that they meet with Gordon Brown! This County official said that they do it because he is such an activist in the area. She even told me she would refer the applicants to other activistis if there were any. I think if you would call this official she would probably tell you the same thing, it's not a secret. I know it is a FACT that they refer applicants to Gordon. I also know of more than one occassion when applicants have met with Gordon Brown to discuss their zoning issues. They do this I have been told because they want to try to win him over prior to application hearings/meetings, they want him on their side as they feel he stirs the pot and influences the decision of an official or two. So, I guess Bambi does know what she's talking about afterall. No big surprise their, she is usually right on the money! 
What's the big deal? Why not verify it instead of the name calling? Oh well, as always Bambi suggests to verify the FACTS
Last edited on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 04:12 am by CharWester
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dansjensdad
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Posted: Wed Jun 11th, 2008 11:01 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Thank you for showing everyone the truth Ms. Haboob.
So long 'haboob'.
2
That's real nice.
What name have you reserved for me?
There are many times I agree with your (and Gordon's) sentiments, but certainly not with your (and Gordon's) methods.
Ben "I like (ha)boobs" Lowe
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2 cents
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Posted: Wed Jun 11th, 2008 10:31 pm |
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Now that makes sense, you make an unfounded statement and I'm supposed to prove it? That leads me to the conclusion that what you say is nothing more than a 'haboob', a lot of wind and dust and nothing more.
Thank you for showing everyone the truth Ms. Haboob.
And I did check with the County, via a friend that knows someone in planning, they DO NOT send zoning cases to Gordon, or anyone else, for input unless they are within the surrounding area that is to be notified. Those that show up at Commission and BOS meetings can have input. Local area meetings are another vehicle by which the County seeks input from concerned citizens. Gordon is no more special and receives no more opportunity for input than any other concerned citizen of the County. This is how it was put to me.
So long 'haboob'.
2
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Bambi
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Posted: Wed Jun 11th, 2008 06:48 pm |
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The Bottom Line on this GSTAC Event is this: I was planning an event/rally for Bryan Martyn. Gordon changed it to a community event without my knowledge; I backed out. The "boys" from AJ (Todd, John, others) called a heard there was an event going on down there. I said yes...Bryan is a speaker, along with others. They said they were going to attend. I told them I thought that would be a good gesture on their part as it was no longer an event for Bryan but a Community Event. That made them happy and show up they did.
Now: It's pretty obvious to me who is running the show....Gordon. The man who wants to be in everything for control. When I mentioned the event for Bryan, he comes to me and says "lets do it together"....so he could have control and have things go his way....which is what happened. When I suggest I put on an event for Bryan and other candidates, Gordon (thru Anne) comes on board and states we are already planning that. No matter what I do and others do to plan something, he has to either be a part of it or be it.
Why is he in Martyn's Camp? Because he thinks he has Bryan in his grip....he is dead wrong. Todd's Camp....Todd can't wait to get rid of his annoyance down in Florence....he is anti Gordon and his followers. Gordon is frantically "holding" on to this GSTAC, so he won't loose control, as he knows once a "foe" comes into power, he is dead in his tracks. More qualified people were ignored for the position on the CORE Team, but fear won out...the fear that Gordon would sabotage their efforts, so keep him close to the base......better yet, make him a part of the base.
Bryan...I will state it once again. He is doing more damage to your cause than you think. Distance yourself from him please.
It's all about control.....Gordon was there when he put people out in the middle of the road to stop me for signatures on a petition. When I refused to sign, well, you saw the remarks and threats on those emails I published. That's how you instill hate and envy...go after those who don't cooperate..me in this case.
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Bambi
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Posted: Wed Jun 11th, 2008 06:33 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Bambi wrote:
"The county continues to send him and his group the zoning cases, without our knowledge or consent." Quote from Bambi.
This seems to be a contradiction. How do you know that the County continues to him he and the group zoning cases "without your knowledge"? My guess is that there are 'ass'umptions being made. Show us your proof, as you are oft want to say! Show us! If you can produce the 'proof' then all can beleive what you say. Excitedly waiting. 2
That's about all you do is wait. Why don't you get involved and research it. Look it up. Go to the County. I made the statement....you verify it. I have emails showing conversations between Ed G. and the rest of the group, talking about the "next" one on the list from the County. No need to show anymore of my evidence as I have been doing. If you question it, then put some effort into discovering it.
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pipeman
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 04:54 am |
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starleen wrote: Pipeman, can you clarify? In one post you said, "why is is that Gordon was asked if Todd and the women (sorry I forgot your name) could be called up to speak and his only words were, "NO"."
Then in this last post you said they were not asked to speak. There's a difference between not being asked to speak and not being allowed to speak, I just wanted the right verb in there. Either way, GSTAC better get their spin doctors on this pronto.
They were NEVER asked to speak from the get-go.
When several speakers did not show and there was dead time... Gordon was asked if Todd could speak and he said, NO.
So it goes both ways, they were not asked, and then when time would have permited, they weren't allowed...
I want to know who funded this gathering? And why Gordon would not allow them recognition...
Last edited on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 04:56 am by pipeman
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starleen
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 04:29 am |
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Pipeman, can you clarify? In one post you said, "why is is that Gordon was asked if Todd and the women (sorry I forgot your name) could be called up to speak and his only words were, "NO"."
Then in this last post you said they were not asked to speak. There's a difference between not being asked to speak and not being allowed to speak, I just wanted the right verb in there. Either way, GSTAC better get their spin doctors on this pronto.
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pipeman
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 03:55 am |
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GK is correct, Todd was present as well as his supporters wearng his tee-shirts.
What I said was that several guest speakers did not show up, so why was Todd and the woman running not asked to speak? Why weren't thye asked to speak from the get-go?
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gk
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 03:25 am |
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| I saw Todd there last evening
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azsunshine
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 10:31 pm |
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| Is that true Anne? Why wasn't Todd invited? How can all options be discovered? How can it be best for the community to be one sided? The community needs to have all options available not just one. Please clarify.
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pipeman
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 08:07 pm |
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Bambi wrote: Well Pipe. Welcome to the "Short List" of people who are not welcome on GSTAC, because having made this public pronouncement of your thoughts about this organization, you are automatically a "non-person." Meaning, best do your own thing. You won't be welcome. Not allowed to express contradictory thoughts and still be a part of their group. Also, must have done community work to qualify.
Which brings me to this proposal. Come back on board with me and help me do two things:
1. Research the prospects of a City. Come with me to the city of Maricopa, and discuss what process they went thru. Then we will jump over to Laveen, and discuss their Community Council reasons/conditions with them.
2. Help me bring forth the candidates running for office, to the public's view, so we will know who will be leading us for the next 4 years.
Let GSTAC continue on their journey. You and I won't be there, but I have several friends who believe like we do, on board the GSTAC. They are attending the meetings, and one thing is primary in their minds......elections. Remove the CORE as quickly as possible, and put the power in the people's hands. If not done readily and openly, they will all leave.
So Pipe: Hop on Board the "Short list Express" We have a lot of work to do. We have been announced publically in the news as being the Incorporation Seekers. Let's live up to it. Let's contact SRP and let them know that we are also a force to be reckoned with out here. Let's contact all of them and let them know that GSTAC is not the only force of people to be recognized out here. But let's allow them to continue their process. We can use the "district" representation model they are forming in a city anyway. It's all about representation....if it's via a city....better. But we need some type of representation that carries credibility.
Now, let's discuss who is on our "Short list" of non persons for Incorporation: George Johnson. We will bring him into compliance or bring him to the Judge and Jury, but he won't participate with us in our discovery process.
So let the chips fall where they may. Anne is trying to do a good job. She is a very diligent workerbee. She practically put this whole event together for the GSTAC. So, let her practice what she likes to do.....no harm with Anne. Now the other leaders....make up your own mind on that one.
Anyway, let's focus on Incorporation and choosing the right candidate for office.
well Bambi, being on the short list is nothing new to me as I call it as I see it. I do not pull any punches, never have and never will. We may be on a short list and not welcome, but GSTAC list of people not wanting anything to do with them grows by leaps and bounds daily.
I know several speakers did not show up at the gathering at the school, why is is that Gordon was asked if Todd and the women (sorry I forgot your name) could be called up to speak and his only words were, "NO". He was also asked if those that contributed funds for this gathering should be mentioned and his only words were, "NO".. why weren't these other 2 allowed to speak? Why was the financial contributor recognized? Who was the real financial contributirs for this gathering??? Something stinks in the air around here. There is some funny business going on with several issues out here that links them all together in some way. The real truth will come out.
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2 cents
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 08:07 pm |
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Bambi wrote:
"The county continues to send him and his group the zoning cases, without our knowledge or consent." Quote from Bambi.
This seems to be a contradiction. How do you know that the County continues to him he and the group zoning cases "without your knowledge"? My guess is that there are 'ass'umptions being made. Show us your proof, as you are oft want to say! Show us! If you can produce the 'proof' then all can beleive what you say. Excitedly waiting. 2
Last edited on Sun Jun 8th, 2008 08:09 pm by 2 cents
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 06:42 pm |
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azsunshine wrote: Is that true Anne? If you have different ideas and voice them you are not welcome at your new group?
Here is some unwelcome constructive criticism: I think it would have been wiser for the main group to publish "announcements" for each district together. That way your and Ed's district that you live in would be there but not the only one that people are focused on. It just seems that if you are the only "representative" announcing and you are both ex- now-or whatever BLC members it will seem like this new group is just BLC reincarnated. Have your district announcements but it (your district) will not be the center of the stage.
Try this on for a fit......an email Gordon sent me recently when I asked if he and I could sit down and come up with a good plan that would work for the Hunt Corridor...now remember: I'm trying to fit in to his group......here is part of his reply.....and this is why I cannot work with him...he is already "set" in his ways, with full control "still" of the County. He states "Already procedures are in place for a person wishing a zoning change." Nothing is going to change out here with him directing the orchestra." His mentality is still the same: The county continues to send him and his group the zoning cases, without our knowledge or consent. See what conclusions you draw from his statement.
Gordon's email to me:
......." don't know how to reply to your email. It suggests the creation of a plan when a plan already exists. The existing plan is considered a good one by the people who live in the area. Already procedures are in place for a person wishing a zoning change. Applications can and have been made to the County. Neighborhood meetings can and have been conducted to facilitate the presentatation of proposed developments to the people most affected. Exactly what is it that you want from me? I will always make the best case I can for what I believe is right. I would not ask you to do any different."
Gordon
And all those procedures are working and have been working? We have the evidence of that....SanTanFlats. Your first success story G.
This is a man who wants to be in full control of our future out here, and seeks no change. Sorry Jack. You picked the wrong partner in my opinion, and your reason for picking him is to keep him in your "sights"....well, in my opinion, that has backfired. Your assumptions about me trying to sabotage your work are untrue. It is the other "players" I am addressing...not your good intentions. There is no way in hell that Gordon will let go of the reins....trust me. He will try to stay on one way or another. Mark my words. But, I must cease my blog now, | | |