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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 10:07 pm |
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A deed on a split I made 5 years ago was recorded, as I sold a parcel out of it. It was a 10 originally. I split it into 1 five acre site and 4 acre and qtrs. The split/survey and deed were recorded. Yet, records showed only two fives were recorded, with the guy who I sold the five to billed and paying the taxes on the whole ten for 2 years. Then I sold one 1.25 acre lot out of the 4 remaining lots I had split and recorded,with deed, so now instead of 3 1acre and qtr. lots remaining, there is a 3.75 acre lot remaining according to the Recorder and Treasurer. All this occurred over the last 5 years. All this promotes frustration and anger. No one seems to know how to solve the problem, no matter how many times I contact them.....all of them....the Assessor; the Treasurer and the Recorder. Currently, the Treasurer is mailing out taxes to me, on splits made in 2005. I keep telling them I don't own them anymore, and they state it's my responsibility to get that tax bill to them.  Like hell it is.
That to me reflects a gross lack of competance. And it's their overseerers, their bosses that will take the hit for allowing that incompetancy to continue at the tax payers expense.
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2 cents
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:48 pm |
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Got ya. Thanks for the answers Bambi.
I had a neighbor split their property. They were told that the parcels don't show up on the parcel maps until there is a deed recorded that describes each parcel. I think that comes from the Assessors office is what he said. Perhaps you could contact them and get an answer to your question.
Thanks again. 2
Last edited on Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:48 pm by 2 cents
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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:20 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Hi B, I don't wish to argue. Let me make that clear right off the bat. I am having a hard time putting together the nepotism thing between the 'Doolittles'. I hope you can explain it to me.
The way I see it, Terry is an appointed official. Appointed by the BOS. Dodie is an elected official and cannot be fired by anyone who works for the county. She can be fired by the electorate. Terry doesn't tell Dodie how to do the business of collecting taxes. That is all governed by statute. Terry, the county, pays the wages of those who work for the treasurers office and in that respect could run everybody off and make Dodie do the job by her self (just being silly here) but that is about all the he can do to affect her process. I don't think that he could even whisper sweet nothings while under the sheets that would affect how the process of collecting taxes could be any different that what it is. And I suspect that Terry is smart enough to not allow sweet nothings change the way he manages the county. He is at will and can be run off at the whim of the BOS.
How do you see it B. I am interested! I don't profess to see everything.
Thanks, 2
As I said in my post.....both women are qualified.
Having lived thru the scandal of Stan Griffiths, and the subsequent appointment of Mr. Dolittle to his position as County Manager, I have been very gunshy of anything that has the "appearance" of cronyism and corruption. That is not to say that Terry or his wife are unqualified or corrupt, as I feel they are not. But, inasmuch as both are in a position of top authority in our County Govt., it makes me uncomfortable to have a husband and wife so close to the funds. I'd personally feel more comfortable if managers of our funds didn't live in the same household.
To sum it up, it's a preventive action and one based on the consequences of past corruption in our County.
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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:43 pm |
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2 cents wrote: Had to do some looking before I asked my next question.
The recorder. In 2005 they recorded 184,300+ documents, 2006-178,400+, 2007-141,500+ documents and so far this year about 103,300 documents.
The recording of documents is only one of the functions that the recorder does, thinks voters and elections among others.
My question. How would you propose that office do its business better?
Again, thanks. 2
Better communication between them and the other departments in getting documents recorded timely. Also, those documents that pertain to land splits. Why should it take months to record those splits after the split? Why haven't many of them that were split years ago not yet showing as being recorded yet? Where is the "communication" breakdown occuring? I'm not the County Manager, so I can't say how one speeds up this process or how one facilitates it so it functions more efficiently. But I have been complaining about this for years, and everyone points the finger at the other guy. Bottom line, it isn't functioning as it should in that capacity and the Recorder is the Responsible party to make sure it does.
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2 cents
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 01:00 am |
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Had to do some looking before I asked my next question.
The recorder. In 2005 they recorded 184,300+ documents, 2006-178,400+, 2007-141,500+ documents and so far this year about 103,300 documents.
The recording of documents is only one of the functions that the recorder does, thinks voters and elections among others.
My question. How would you propose that office do its business better?
Again, thanks. 2
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2 cents
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 12:45 am |
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Hi B, I don't wish to argue. Let me make that clear right off the bat. I am having a hard time putting together the nepotism thing between the 'Doolittles'. I hope you can explain it to me.
The way I see it, Terry is an appointed official. Appointed by the BOS. Dodie is an elected official and cannot be fired by anyone who works for the county. She can be fired by the electorate. Terry doesn't tell Dodie how to do the business of collecting taxes. That is all governed by statute. Terry, the county, pays the wages of those who work for the treasurers office and in that respect could run everybody off and make Dodie do the job by her self (just being silly here) but that is about all the he can do to affect her process. I don't think that he could even whisper sweet nothings while under the sheets that would affect how the process of collecting taxes could be any different that what it is. And I suspect that Terry is smart enough to not allow sweet nothings change the way he manages the county. He is at will and can be run off at the whim of the BOS.
How do you see it B. I am interested! I don't profess to see everything.
Thanks, 2
Last edited on Fri Oct 31st, 2008 12:47 am by 2 cents
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Bambi
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Posted: Thu Oct 30th, 2008 11:21 pm |
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Interesting spin.
Now, about Ron R. What you are stating about the job of the assessor is true. But Mr. Larkin has done very little or next to nothing to advance our needs in that area. He spends alot of time at the County as he should, then other times are spent teaching. I believe the Assesors influence on these decision makers could have put us way ahead of the game, had he been timely. But now we suffer. Has he attempted to help in the introduction of a bill that would reduce those unfair taxes. I believe we still have another year of high taxes, and most owners out here can't afford to pay their taxes now.
Some own 40's out here, that could afford to keep it vacant as the taxes were less than half of what they are now. Now to pay $36k on that 40 is impossible.for many. Many are venture capitalist, and can only stand still as no money is circulating for developement or customers to buy the end result if developed. A buyer for one of the 40's waited over 2 years for the County to approve a plat......too long, so the sellers lost the sale. timelyness is lacking in the County and is costing the taxpayer a great sum of money and grief.
Treasurer. Both women are competent and qualified. But Ms. Doolittle's turn is up. I don't feel comfortable with the nepotism that exists, with her husband functioning as the County's Manager. Too close for comfort and only invites potential collusion and conflict.
Acton for Recorder. He has promised to make sure recordation is timely and communication is clear and concise between the Assessor. He has promised to expidite land split recordation between him and the Assessor. Now, there are currently land splits that occured 5 years ago, that are still showing up as one parcel. That can be easily monitored by us, the public. The last thing any of these candidates want is bad publicity of incompetence during their tenure, so I'm sure John has that in mind and will perform excellent in that role.
Fillmore? I have yet to find a more dedicated man in his service to the people over these many years. He won a prize at my Political rally and he donated it immediately to a needy child. A compassionate worker, yet when fault is found, he is quick to seek remedys.
Babeu: A decorated police officer: a military officer; a reformer; a young leader that has the people's safety first and foremost in his mind. Honesty and integrity are his attributes.
Bryan: Not much to say about him at this point that hasn't already been said by me and others and yourself. Just the right Leader for this County, to bring us into the 21st Century. A great military hero in my mind.
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loki
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Posted: Thu Oct 30th, 2008 03:27 pm |
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Bambi wrote:
VOTE FOR BRYAN MARTYN FOR SUPERVISOR
VOTE FOR RON REINGAL FOR ASSESSOR
VOTE RAYNA PALMER FOR TREASURER
VOTE JOHN ACTON FOR RECORDER
VOTE JOHN FILLMORE FOR LEGISLATURE
VOTE PAUL BABEU FOR SHERIFF
THESE PEOPLE WILL BRING A POSITIVE CHANGE TO PINAL COUNTY.....THEY WILL BRING US INTO THE 21ST CENTURY WITH FAIRNESS AND COMPETENCY.
My spin:
For supervisor. Bryan Martyn is intelligent, articulate and interested. Vote yes.
For assessor. Ron Reinagel's promises to cut taxes indicates a lack of understanding that the budget set by elected policy makers, and not assessed valuations, is what drives tax rates and tax bills. The assessor can't cut taxes. Vote no.
For treasurer. A close call. Rayna Palmer doesn't appear to offer any special expertise or experience. You're voting for a bookkeeper, not a policy maker. My instinct says live the with devil you know, rather than the devil you don't. Vote no.
For recorder. John Acton appears to lack any understanding of what the assessor does. His public suggestion that the current assessor should have "caught" Stan Griffis is simply silly. Vote no.
For the legislature LD23. John Fillmore and Frank Pratt would give Pinal County a voice in the majority caucus (No seniority, but at least a voice). Remember, at the legislature R's rule and D's are irrelevant. Still, Rebecca Rios has experience, seniority and a clear, articulate voice and the legislature will sorely need some balance. Vote yes on all 3.
For sherriff. Another close call. Vasquez has certainly managed to bumble into a number of self-inflicted wounds. Babeu appears young, eager and articulate. Looking to the future, I'd still rather have the sheriff's office just be a cop shop, and not turn into a media circus. Again going with the with devil I know over the devil I don't, I say keep the incumbent.
Loki
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flyrep
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Posted: Wed Oct 29th, 2008 05:10 am |
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Right, I cannot vote incumbent here in Pinal County. Heck, Lord Bush sure as hell
didn't get my vote in 04. Once was enough. Of course, I wouldn't vote socialist
Obama or neocon McCain for all the tea in China.
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Bambi
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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VOTE FOR BRYAN MARTYN FOR SUPERVISOR
VOTE FOR RON REINGAL FOR ASSESSOR
VOTE RAYNA PALMER FOR TREASURER
VOTE JOHN ACTON FOR RECORDER
VOTE JOHN FILLMORE FOR LEGISLATURE
VOTE PAUL BABEU FOR SHERIFF
THESE PEOPLE WILL BRING A POSITIVE CHANGE TO PINAL COUNTY.....THEY WILL BRING US INTO THE 21ST CENTURY WITH FAIRNESS AND COMPETENCY.
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Rayna
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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To all,
Thank you, this conversation is finally taking a turn up my alley. Bladeharvest and Sandragene are right on. I addressed the web site in a recent forum. The web site for the Treasurer's office is a joke. Per the Treasurer herself, they had to reduce the information provided on the web site because it was taking too long to back up each evening. Excuse me, the Maricopa county web site offers a 12 year history on each parcel. Pinal County doesn't want the information available for obvious reasons.
Regarding the tax notices that appear to be sent from the Treasurer's office, but can't seem to find the correct address of the property owner. I hear horror stories about how people have lost or almost lost their properties because they never received tax notices or notices of delinquency. Two weeks ago I spoke with a lady who almost lost three parcels. She never received tax notices and thought that her mortgage company was paying the taxes. She happened on the Tax Liens listed on the County web site and found three of her parcels listed. She sent her change of address into the Treasurer's office and personally visited the office to make sure it was documented and it still did not reach her correct address. An 80 year old gentleman I am trying to help had his lien sold for unpaid 1998 taxes. Even though he drove to Florence and personally paid sub-taxes for 99,2000,2001 and 2002, no one in the Treasurer's office bothered to notify him that he owed for 98 and that his lien had been sold. This gentleman has had everyone from Terry Doolittle (the County Manager who is married to the County Treasurer) down to the office clerk tell him that nothing can be done so just forget it. But.....according to the current treasurer she is proud of her customer service record and efficiency is at an all time high in her office......The owner and builder of a hotel in GC began paying property tax as soon as he pulled his building permit. He hadn't rented a room. And yet the Casa Grande Mall hasn't paid a dime to date. A.R.S. does dictate certain rules for the treasurers office function, but she has a lot more leeway than she lets on.
Nothing is going to change in the Assessors office or Treasurer's office until the people change. We are in an uphill climb and are being beat back by incumbents who don't want anyone examining their handiwork.
If anyone is interested in how my opponent, the current County Treasurer ascended into leadership, let me know, the chronology of the event does lend itself to question.
Rayna Palmer,Candidate for Pinal County Treasurer
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Tricky
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 10:46 pm |
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I just ran across this and thought it appropriate.
EDITOR - October 12, 2008
Aesop is credited with the story about a poor farmer who found himself in possession of a goose that laid a solid gold egg every day. The farmer became wealthy as a result, but also became greedy. He thought and thought, and the more he thought the more greedy he became and thus decided to kill the goose and collect all the gold inside of it. He killed his goose and when he looked into the entrails he found they were quite normal for a goose and contained no gold. The end result was: without the daily golden egg he once again became a poor man.
This fable has relevancy in the 21st century and applies quite well to Pinal County and several other government entities within the county. Consider:
1) The board of supervisors, in collusion with the county assessor, has been raising taxes steadily for the past ten years to pay for all their pie in the sky fantasies until the geese, the property tax payers, have no more gold in them.
2) CAC, the county’s junior college, in efforts to make themselves into something other than a two-year institution, has been trying to get gold out of the geese year after year and is trying again this year. Using a $100 million bond issue to expand facilities that need no expansion, they claim it’s a paltry sum, which no homeowner will feel when he pays his yearly ransom. However, CAC makes no mention in their proposal about the cost of staffing and maintaining their new facilities (M and O); those monies will also be added to the tax bill on a yearly basis and will be a larger amount than the bond itself. More gold from the geese; and at a time when the economy is in a plummeting tailspin.
3) The Apache Junction Fire Board, with no thought about the effect on taxpayers, authorized a 14% raise for firefighters, which average $420 to $700 per month, during a year when everybody else was considered lucky to receive a 1.5 to 3% raise. The greatest increase in most county tax bills recently was for the fire district whose operating budget increased by $4 million, just for this year and just to pay for the salary increases. Some more gold from the geese.
Now there is a movement afoot to elect union members, who are firemen, to the fire board.
The reason a fire board exists is to provide civilian control over uniformed services. If these firemen are elected to the board they will be a “Yes” group for the fire chief. As presently constituted the fire board has been giving away the store but if the board gets stacked with firemen there will be no end to the wasteful spending. And more gold from the geese.
The taxpayers are in a perfect position to hang on to their gold by voting November 4 for a new assessor and new supervisors; a new treasurer and a new recorder; by voting no on the $100 million bond for CAC; and by not voting for non-civilians to sit on the fire board. But if they fail to reject the proposal, and fail to vote in new faces and fail to keep the fire board all civilian then they can expect the greedy farmers to split them open looking for more, thereby killing the golden goose.
Norman F. Eline
Apache Junction
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Bambi
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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RonR wrote: Bambi – Your discovery of unequal appraisal and taxation of adjacent properties isn’t peculiar only to your neighborhood. Isn’t it interesting that a large majority of Pinal County property owners have received HIGHER tax bills even though for the first time in almost 10-years the county actually reduced the tax rate as required by Arizona Law (not of their own volition). It is a systemic problem that has invaded the entire county and can be laid at the feet of the current assessor.
The Assessor’s office is very inefficient and very unfair to most taxpayers in this currently troubled real estate market. That is why I am running for Pinal County Assessor. I intend to clean up this mess and make appraisal and therefore taxation equitable. I ask for your vote on November 4.
I have announced a Pinal County “Tax-Force” to listen to the taxpayers and adopt their ideas. This will consist of a number of VOLUNTEERS (there are several that have already volunteered) at NO COST or additional budgeting to the already over-burdened taxpayers. Your vote will help me accomplish this task. I invite you to join.
Respectfully;
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
While this edition of the Truth-Detector is being assembled and e-mailed on Thursday October 9, 2008, tax updates that I have just received from the Arizona Tax Research Association (ATRA) contain some disturbing news about District levies and General Obligation (G.O. Bonds).
Pinal County, one of the few in Arizona with Public Health Service District Levies, tops the entire State with a 2008 levy in the amount of $4,305,000.00. It becomes very obvious that the only way to stop the massive spending in Pinal County is to change the management team (both elected and appointed).
Governor Janet recently vetoed several bills. One of the most disappointing was HB2585. This bill would have required that voters be provided with additional information regarding bond elections. First, it would have made the property tax example in the bond publicity pamphlet more realistic in terms of valuation growth (remember, even in a slow real estate market the current Pinal County Assessor has dramatically increased most valuations) so that taxpayers would have a better understanding of the proposed tax impact. Second, the bill would have required jurisdictions to disclose to taxpayers if the amount of proposed bonds, combined with the current outstanding debt, would exceed the political subdivision’s constitutional debt limit.
Simply put, local jurisdictions would have been required to seek voter approval prior to dramatically reducing a bond debt service schedule through refinancing that would result in a large tax increase to property owners.
So, why did the governor veto this bill? According to the ATRA referenced newsletter, “Again, despite ample evidence that property taxpayers have experienced dramatic increases in secondary taxes for bond debt service that was entirely inconsistent with what they thought they approved at the ballot, the Governor opted for more local control”.
Remember in 2006 state lawmakers passed a temporary repeal of the State property tax rate. HB 2220 was introduced to make the repeal permanent. On April 16, 2008, the governor vetoed the bill calling it, “the height of fiscal irresponsibility in the face of severe budgetary deficits”. (Have we seen any meaningful budget reductions, as most businesses are being required to do?)
ATRA goes on to state, “Moreover, the governor’s consistent opposition to these measures has served to bolster the efforts of grassroots organizations that argue that reasonable property tax policy cannot succeed at the capitol”.
In closing, allow me to restate my position; while the law outlines the duties of the assessor, NOTHING in the law prohibits the assessor from being a legislative advocate for property tax law change. When the voters indicate they are ready for a change on November 4, not only will I correct the highly-flawed assessment system in Pinal County, I will work with the State Senators and Legislators to change the convoluted laws where they are enacted, at the capitol. The end result will be favorable to the Pinal County Taxpayers.
I cannot win this election and work to lower our property taxes alone - [size=I NEED YOUR HELP] to correct the malfunctioning Pinal County Assessor’s Office. I hope you will join me in this fight by following this link to make a campaign contribution of any amount - up to the legal limit of $390.00 per person. Once you are on the “Home-Page” of the website, click Contribute / Donate.
PLEASE - Forward this E-Mail to every Pinal County Taxpayer in your address book. Remember to encourage folks to visit our website (http://www.ronforassessor.com) It has a lot of information and every page has an area to subscribe to our “Truth Detector” Newsletter.[size=
If you did not receive a prior Ron for Assessor E-Mail “Truth-Detector” all prior issues + A Property Tax Explanation Booklet, Pinal County Property Tax Cookbook, are available. CLICK HERE]!
We must no longer allow our future to be
held hostage by our past."
Thank
Now you have my vote Ron. The Tax Sale will be here soon and many of us will be losing our properties because we cannot afford those outrageous taxes. Pinal will gain at 16% interest on our loss. Why is it that Wall Street gets bailed out and rewarded for their bad behavior and we lose our properties because of good behavior. Who is looking out for our welfare and prosperity that was promised to us? Who?
Last edited on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 04:57 pm by Bambi
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bladeharvest
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 04:37 pm |
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Its not just their website that lags behind, it is their whole system including attitude!
I keep receiving a tax bill for a parcel that I have never owned! Both I and the owner of the parcel have called over to Florence several times over the past couple of years to correct this. We thought we had it fixed but yesterday I received their tax bill again. To the County's credit they did take my name off of the ownership of this parcel. Now we need to work on correcting the mailing address. Should only take a couple more years.
P.S. Did I mention that I am getting taxed off of my land?
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sandragene
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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One thing FLOTOWN said at the beginning of the posts is sooo true. The Maricopa Tax Accessor Website is user-friendly. So easy to use and read. The Pinal County one leaves much to be desired. Very confusing. I have sent them questions about my acct many times in the last 2 yrs because I could not figure it out on my online acct.
Maybe they could take some use the same program that Maricopa does or see if they can improve it. I would be happy to volunteer to give them some customer imput if I thought there was hope...have told them but was blown off. They must not think there is a problem If you haven't been on the Maricopa one, try it. Do a parcel search for any address there and see how user friendly it is. All the info right there.
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RonR
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 01:02 am |
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Bambi – Your discovery of unequal appraisal and taxation of adjacent properties isn’t peculiar only to your neighborhood. Isn’t it interesting that a large majority of Pinal County property owners have received HIGHER tax bills even though for the first time in almost 10-years the county actually reduced the tax rate as required by Arizona Law (not of their own volition). It is a systemic problem that has invaded the entire county and can be laid at the feet of the current assessor.
The Assessor’s office is very inefficient and very unfair to most taxpayers in this currently troubled real estate market. That is why I am running for Pinal County Assessor. I intend to clean up this mess and make appraisal and therefore taxation equitable. I ask for your vote on November 4.
I have announced a Pinal County “Tax-Force” to listen to the taxpayers and adopt their ideas. This will consist of a number of VOLUNTEERS (there are several that have already volunteered) at NO COST or additional budgeting to the already over-burdened taxpayers. Your vote will help me accomplish this task. I invite you to join.
Respectfully;
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
Last edited on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 05:15 am by RonR
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gk
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Posted: Thu Sep 25th, 2008 08:36 pm |
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Not at all.
The "method"? that they used is something that a school kid would dream up. This is absolute incompetance at it's worst!
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Bambi
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Posted: Thu Sep 25th, 2008 08:20 pm |
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I keep getting calls from past clients about their property tax bills. I have been looking up their tax amounts, and as I do that, I discover that it is indeed, all over the board. I find a person's 2.6 acres of vacant land zoned residential assessed at $3800., yet the person next to him, who has 3.7 acres of vacant land is assessed at $1200. Then I research it some more and I discover the 3.6 acres behind him, with a large home on it, is assessed at $1500. Or how about the lot next to San Tan Flats; $1500., owned by Dale Bell. Or a 3.3 with a nice home and horse setup taxed at $3800., and the home with a pool behind him is taxed at $1200.
Having done this research, there is no way that I can see, that when a person received his Notice of Valuation, that he could have known that there would be discrepancies by the County's Assessor. Based on that, I suggested that these owners go to the County and complain that they did not know that they were being "gouged" until public records disclosed these discrepancies via the tax bill on line.
The statement...."if you believe" you value is higher than market value,on the County's card is misleading. How would they know if it was higher or lower, unless one can compare? And there shouldn't be that much discrepancy in values. So if it was determined by the County, thru this process, that the property owner shows the comparable values to be in favor of a lesser amount, then why not have it go across the Board for all owners in that area? Everyone should benefit by this discovery of the wrong value. Am I wrong?
Last edited on Thu Sep 25th, 2008 08:22 pm by Bambi
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Bambi
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 07:34 pm |
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2 cents wrote: FYI. From the Assessor website.
When do I file an appeal?
- If you believe the Full Cash Value on your Notice of Valuation is higher than actual Market Value or the Legal Class is incorrect according to current use, you will want to file a "Petition for Review," DOR 82130.
- Notice of Valuation is mailed on March 1. This valuation is used for the next calendar year's tax computations.
- Petition for Review for Review of Real Property Valuation and the Residential Petition for Review of Real Property are available to the Property owners from March 1st through April 29. Petitions are available from the Assessor's Office and the Board Of Supervisors offices.
So if I discover that the guy next to me has a $500. tax bill and mine is $3000. and we have the same type of property, there is no relief? Is there not a "discovery" process allowed? And what about land splits....takes two to three years to go thru the process. Do they have to take what's given to them and can they dispute it retroactively while it was in "process" I receive several tax bills and Notice of Valuations for other people's land splits, as I owned the parent parcel. What happens to them? Who takes the blame? The County has stated they won't.
It appears it's no to all of the above. Not fair, yet the taxes reflect a value more than todays value of the land, which has just happened in the last few weeks. I can't get $15k an acre today for what I was getting $125k an acre just a couple of years ago. In fact, I can't even give them away. A 5 acre site valued at $175k a year ago is now $750K? And we have to pay these monstosities of taxes on devalued land and homes? The County gets a raise by raising our taxes during a devaluation time since early 06? Is the Assessor working with the Legislature to reduce these taxes?
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2 cents
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 06:17 pm |
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FYI. From the Assessor website.
When do I file an appeal?
- If you believe the Full Cash Value on your Notice of Valuation is higher than actual Market Value or the Legal Class is incorrect according to current use, you will want to file a "Petition for Review," DOR 82130.
- Notice of Valuation is mailed on March 1. This valuation is used for the next calendar year's tax computations.
- Petition for Review for Review of Real Property Valuation and the Residential Petition for Review of Real Property are available to the Property owners from March 1st through April 29. Petitions are available from the Assessor's Office and the Board Of Supervisors offices.
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bladeharvest
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 04:53 am |
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Apparently the assessor's office sent out re-assessment notices in the spring that gave the new ratio to value assessment. We only had so many days after that mailing to appeal. Of course that assessment does not give you the actual dollar amount that you will pay. For questions you must contact each taxing entity. The treasurer's office compiles all of the other entities taxes that you mentioned and puts it into one heart stopping bill. If they gave you the dollar amount at the time of the re-assessment, everyone would be screaming. Thus the reason for a deadline.
I am still looking for options. I think on my statement there is misprint because there are too many zeros in the assessed value of the land. There is no way it would sell for close to that amount. Especially unimproved land, in unincorporated general rural county, no services, and on a dirt road.
This isn't Scottsdale.
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 05:06 am by bladeharvest
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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 10:35 pm |
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The tax statements reflect taxes set by several taxing authorities. The Treasurer does not set tax rates. The Treasurer only oversees the collection of taxes. The State Legislature through statutes, sets the rates for School Equalization and Fire District Assistance Tax. The Board of Supervisors sets the tax rates for ONLY Pinal County, Pinal County Library District and Pinal County Flood Control District. The County School Superintendent sets the rate for the Mary C. Obrien School. Each city or town, school district, special district and Central Arizona Water Conservation District independently sets it's own tax rates. Central Arizona College sets the rate for Pinal County Jr. College. Bond amounts represent amounts previously determined and voted on by area residents.
All this can be found on the tax bills.
If we just received our tax bills, how come it's now too late to appeal? How much time do they give us.....2 minutes?
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bladeharvest
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 04:57 am |
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| We asked to appeal. They said the deadline was way past. We also asked what options were available to provide some kind of relief. The answer was that we will see a slight reduction in 2010 and there are no options available. As far as not paying the tax they can assess a 16% late fee if not paid before the deadline. For the first time in my life I will have to borrow money to pay my taxes. Still in shock.
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JJohnson
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 07:30 pm |
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| Lower the value then they will just increase the rate. At the end of the day we will still get screwed.
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gk
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 06:46 pm |
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Maybe everyone should appeal their tax bill. overload the office, make them work for any forthcoming monies
My assessment and subsequent bill are no where near reality.
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azcats_01
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 02:58 pm |
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bladeharvest wrote: Hi. I just received my property tax bill for 08. It has been assessed for far more than I can sell my property.
Same here. Outragious increases every year while the real property value continues to drop.
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THEWORKER
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 01:53 pm |
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oH i AM SORRY ALSO
TELL EVERY PERSON YOU MEET FOR THE NEXT THREE WEEKS TO DO THE SAME !!!
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THEWORKER
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 01:50 pm |
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Do NOT give up!! Send that guy Ron R that is running for Assessor a few dollars. THEN, go to the POLLS on Novemebr 4th and
VOTE EVERY DARN INCUMBEBENT OUT OF OFFICE. PERIOD
EVERY DARN ONE
CLEAN HOUSE, DUMP EM, START FRESH, OR AS THE LIEING S.O.BS LIKE TO SAY "CHANGE""
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bladeharvest
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 08:46 am |
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Hi. I just received my property tax bill for 08. It has been assessed for far more than I can sell my property. When i called the assessor's office for an explanation, I was given a matter of fact "you were notified of a re-assessment" answer. The problem is the same as always. The good ol boys run every thing. This county has been run into the ground by unscrupulous, blood sucking, jackals with no concern for the average citizen. I have watched ridiculous impact fees imposed on a faltering market only to make it more appealing to move business to another area. I have seen no benefits yet for the mitigation fees, dust fees, higher property taxes, etc. We still have UNPAVED MAJOR ROADS! There have been no initiatives to lower taxes, lower or delete mitigation fees in order to jump start residential and commercial development again thus building a fair tax base that can be sustained. Perhaps a closer look at California's old prop 13 and 8 would be timely. If something is not done soon, folks like me are going to be driven out of Pinal County. Something is askew when your monthly tax bill is equal or greater than your mortgage payment and the county attitude is 'too bad'.
Signed,
About to give up
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Tricky
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 07:19 pm |
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| Over the past week there has been an exciting exchange about the Pinal County assessor’s office. There was a real give and take between RonR and FloTown which was informative. Then THEWORKER moved in with some distinct challenges to FloTown’s statements and before FloTown could argue THEWORKER’s points “Same Thing” hit “Town” with bombshell accusations of criminality, corruption and mismanagement. Since that posting FloTown has been dead silent without a whisper of rebuttal or denial, which would make one believe “Same Thing’s” and“THEWORKER’s” accusations are the truth. By the way, isn’t Gibby’s a bar just around the corner from the assessor’s office.
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RonR
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 09:06 pm |
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Thank You "Same Thing Make You Laugh".
Respectfully,
Ron "Low-Tax" Reinagel - Candidate for Pinal County Assessor
Last edited on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 08:28 pm by RonR
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SameThingMakeYouLaughMakeYouCry
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 05:40 am |
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| Apparently "Flotown" is trying to intimidate me??? I just received a "private message" at 9:27pm that said "I know who you are"... so if I'm found dead at the bottom of a mine, please consider Flotown as the number one suspect.
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SameThingMakeYouLaughMakeYouCry
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 05:22 am |
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Well "Flotown-of-nepotism", there are a few little misleading glitches in your presentation of "behind the scenes" information of the assessor's office. Ron may not be fluent in DOR lingo, but he's a sure pick over the current elected thief. Please review the following truths in reference to your messages and my own experiences within the office. These three cold, hard, indisputable facts alone should be enough to have tax payers wondering why they have allowed him to stay in office for as long as he has...
1. While yes, all appraiser's are required to become Department of Revenue Certified, Larkin has spent over 20 years in office without an attempt to become certified himself. If he doesn't know how to assess, then what does he know?... If Ron is willing to put ANY effort into learning the property tax evaluation process, that would still be TWICE as much effort as Paul Larkin ever gave.
2. While fixed income citizens struggle to pay their raised taxes, large land owners are given HUGE breaks as long as they remain bonefied members of the good ol boys club. Don't believe me? Here it goes ... When one property has been granted "agricultural status" without an inspection and another property is denied due to a lack of evidence by inspection, you must know, oh Town of Flo, that corruption is the ONLY explanation. Want to know how to lighten the tax load for the average property owner and have a little justice served up on a plate of food from an actual farm? STOP GIVING AWAY AGRICULTURAL STATUS (A.K.A. MILLIONS OF $$$$) TO ALREADY-WEALTHY LAND OWNERS!!!
3. The third ugly truth is that no, Flo, the sales affidavits that are used in determining the market values (and thus, the full cash values) are NOT reviewed by the assessor's office. Flo, are you working in the drafting department? Oh wait a minute, maybe the field department... where the primary responsibility is measuring houses, not assessing values. If you were responsible for assessing values, you would know that since the implementation of the OnBase Software nightmare, Larkin's office has allowed over 40,000 sales affidavits to go unchecked... just piling up in an OnBase Que. Now, let's do a little class in VALUATION 101...
Q: Where does the Full Cash Value come from?
A: It comes from the market value.
Q: Where does the market value come from?
A: It comes from analyzing market sales.
Q: How do you analyze market sales?
A: You analyze market sales by analyzing sales affidavits.
Q: How do you analyze market sales without analyzing sales affidavits?
A: Well, if you are Paul Larkin, you don't...you just wait for the Department of Revenue to get around to it and then you assume that they must have done a good enough job...who cares that you are actually supposed to be doing it? not you... it might make you late for happy hour at Gibby's.
MAY THE LEAST CORRUPT PLEASE STAND UP...RON, YOU'VE GOT MY VOTE!!!
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gk
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 07:46 am |
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| it does sound like flo is on a fishing trip, or has some kind of involvement in this issue
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THEWORKER
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 01:40 am |
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Mr. R.
This Flotown guy said: Let me first mention... I'm an impartial party. I learned a long time ago in life when someone starts with a denial it like this it is usually B.S.
This Flotown guy said:On a side note.... I'm happy to see you removed and updated some of your site to take out some of the incorrect information which to me makes you look like a more honest candidate I went to your site and THIS IS B.S. this guy has an erection for you. I saw NO CHANGES TO YOUr SITE !! ??? What GIVES ???? Did you make any changes??
This Flotown guy said:You want to lower values??!?! That will do ZILCH for addressing any reduced taxes.I don't think guy is qualified or smart enough to argue his case based upon this ludicrous staement,IF LOWER VALUES do not lead to lower taxes what does?? a Lobotomy from the Assessor??
This Flotown guy said:Thanks for not taking the time to clearly answer the questions provided in detail and stearing right around them. How more direct could you have been ? This guy is just blatantly lieing and saying anything,hoping it sticks, maybe his last name is Clinton ??
This Flotown guy said:I'm a tax rep that not only represents many parcels in Pinal County; Oh oh, I think the relationship to the County Tax Baron robber is starting to come out !!
This Flotown guy said:I googled such remarks Never mind he is just an IDIOT with this statement.. I recommend you just ignore him from now on. Anything you say he will lie on the responses I believe and you cannot have a rational discussion
My take: again you win
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Flotown
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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RonR wrote: FloTown – I appreciate your interest and questions. I believe a blog site is not the proper venue to attempt to provide technical answers regarding tax laws and the internal workings of the assessor’s office. Nothing on my website has been modified or removed since your first writing.
ARS (Arizona Revised Statutes) Section 42 dictates the duties of an Arizona County Assessor as well as what the Assessor is required to do. I will follow the legal requirements of ARS 42 and, when I am elected, will terminate anyone in the Assessor’s office that acts in any manner contrary to the Arizona law.
Respectfully;
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
Why not here? Other candidates for other county positions don't have a problem answering questions. Not everyone can make it to Gold Canyon (like the people who may read this forum from Maricopa or Casa Grande) and this venue is perfectly easy to answer questions. You want to offer a more user friendly website for the assessor's office; well lets see how user friendly you can answer questions about the solutions. My questions are pretty straight forward and being a tax payer/rep I'd like to hear your details on things you state and how you are going to follow through with them. These are things that you have stated on your website and I would think you wouldn't have a problem taking a few minutes of your time to answer a voters question. I guess this place is good for spamming your website to get people to go there and read the empty promises (since you haven't stated one thing that is factually backed up anywhere). See that's the problem with the internet... people go to a site and take it as gospel, and then there's the handful of people (like me) that take what they read and research it.. fortunate for me I had a pretty good understanding of the property valuation and how taxes are really configured to know that there was some misconceptions that you have and promises to "lower taxes" (which you still haven't told us how you can do that).
When's the next public forum? I'd love to be there and submit my questions for both candidates. If you don't post it here... can you atleast update your site since we all have your web address now?
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RonR
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 07:35 pm |
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FloTown – I appreciate your interest and questions. I believe a blog site is not the proper venue to attempt to provide technical answers regarding tax laws and the internal workings of the assessor’s office. Nothing on my website has been modified or removed since your first writing.
ARS (Arizona Revised Statutes) Section 42 dictates the duties of an Arizona County Assessor as well as what the Assessor is required to do. I will follow the legal requirements of ARS 42 and, when I am elected, will terminate anyone in the Assessor’s office that acts in any manner contrary to the Arizona law.
Respectfully;
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
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Flotown
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 03:08 am |
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Mr. Ron,
Again, I'd like to reiterate the fact that I am Republican and was impartial to the candidates for Assessor. I came in here politely asking some questions and basically was told to go do my own research. Upon doing so, I was not only looking for answer to my own questions but stumbled upon somethings that were questionable and did further research.
Anyhow in response to your last post:
"Your first statement regarding your impartiality is obviously flawed. If you chose to commence a debate about what I know or do not know, why not use your real name and provide contact information (as I have)?"
Answer: What difference does it make of my real name? I'd love to tell you but since I'm a tax rep that not only represents many parcels in Pinal County; I also pay my taxes in Pinal County and reside there.
"Mr. Larkin has made several “public” statements regarding his perceived 2-1/2 year requirement, which appears to contradict ARS 42-13051."
Answer: I googled such remarks and found ZERO information on it. Then I saw your comment on the Casa Grande Promenade and decided that this is a great case that you bring up but when I researched it found it to be untrue. Also, now I see you removed the accusation on your site. I commend you for pulling that down since it was very misleading.
"If YOU had attended the forum and actually reviewed my website you would have heard and read the word “volunteer” for my “Tax-Force”. This equates to a ZERO budget increase."
Answer: You said you were going to open more offices... Not bring in volunteers. Office's implies buildings, not people. So you're going to bring in people that are going to work for free and are QUALIFIED? You do realize that the current staff at the Assessor's office has to be Department of Revenue certified right (if your suggesting getting rid of the current staff to reduce costs). They are certified to DOR guidelines and to understand the statutes and laws of the valuation process.
"Please provide “proof” of my stating that I can control the budgets (as I do not make such unfounded statements)."
Proof is in your name.. Ron "Low Tax" Reinegal. You suggest that you can lower taxes which you can't. Which lead me to tell you how you can lower value and it won't make a difference. Again, if you're Ron "Low Tax" Reinegal how are you lowering taxes? If you think cutting back staff at the Assessor's office that isn't going to do a whole lot to reduce taxes. I do agree with you that volunteers are a GREAT idea and could definetly help assist tax payers with inquiries or something like that. I know a lot of elderly people that volunteer at the hospitals and they love just getting out to do things and with the high school in the town of Florence you could even probably get some kids from the school to help on breaks. So I agree some volunteers could be a great thing.
"If, in fact (as you state) a major value reduction would not reduce taxes. It is important to remember that ARS also dictates maximum tax rates (which is why the County recently lowered its rate)."
They may dictate it but they only did a portion of the current reduction in tax rate (the county I believe did an additional percentage but not sure how much... I just know the whole percentage wasn't state mandated).
Ron, I'm only interested in facts.... You do have some points on your site but you have a lot that is very misleading to people that don't understand what the Assessor's office really does. Many people believe they are responsible for the taxes but like I said before... it doesn't matter what you value it at; the county will get their money. The responsibility of the Assessor's office is to value parcels according to market sales in a 18 month valuation window. Unfortunately, like you I can't stand how the market can't be taken up to a more recent date but due to validation of sales between the Assessor's office and DOR has to happen and that takes time.
The good news is.... (again, it probably won't matter much due to the fact of the fluxuation of the tax rate) next years values in some areas should see another decrease in value (I'd say a majority of the parcels, but not necessarily all markets).
On a side note.... I'm happy to see you removed and updated some of your site to take out some of the incorrect information which to me makes you look like a more honest candidate but the fact of the matter is it is very misleading to tell people or insinuate to people that you yourself can lower taxes.
When is the next forum? I heard something about AJ high or something? I'd love to make it if I can.
To the forum Troll.... I don't feed trolls and I'm only interested in responding to the potential candidate. If you're the type of person that likes to believe everything that is rosie coming out of someones mouth then you're going to be sourly disappointed when your taxes don't go down.
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RonR
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 10:27 pm |
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Thank You for your support!
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
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THEWORKER
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 09:21 pm |
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Mr R:
I find this very very amusing and I believe what we have here is that the current Assessor has had some flunkie (spell that as flotown) jump on board and make inaccurate and incorrect assumptions, and accusations. This person should know better and it is obvious that he is a probable represntative of either the current assessor, a relative, or even the current assessor himselF  . I have heard your presenataion and heard the Assessor
simply put
YOU WIN
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RonR
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 06:59 pm |
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Mr. or Ms. Flotown;
Your posting is quite inaccurate.
Your first statement regarding your impartiality is obviously flawed. If you chose to commence a debate about what I know or do not know, why not use your real name and provide contact information (as I have)?
You originally made a simple inquiry and were provided with a simple answer as well as a suggestion to review my website and newspaper write-up (links provided) for “additional information”
Mr. Larkin has made several “public” statements regarding his perceived 2-1/2 year requirement, which appears to contradict ARS 42-13051.
If YOU had attended the forum and actually reviewed my website you would have heard and read the word “volunteer” for my “Tax-Force”. This equates to a ZERO budget increase.
Please provide “proof” of my stating that I can control the budgets (as I do not make such unfounded statements).
If, in fact (as you state) a major value reduction would not reduce taxes. It is important to remember that ARS also dictates maximum tax rates (which is why the County recently lowered its rate).
Respectfully;
Ron Reinagel
http://www.ronforassessor.com
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