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payattention71
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 Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 03:50 am
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not all names, ballots, etc. were heard and taken into account. If so, i would have seen the list of names i voted from on that list Monday night. I also believe that there were other active people helping to get the word out, I myself heard about it through corridor 4 site........

flygad1
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 Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 03:40 am
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Thanks Barny oops I mean Bryan.

We will all be waiting for the Dinosaurs to clear the way for your emerald city.

EF

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Oakland
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 01:36 pm
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Thanks Bryan. You made it happen.

Lovethisarea
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:44 am
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That would be great to see an updated map and to find out if I will actually have this new place for a mailing address.

Wow, that map goes all the way to Germann and Meridian... I actually thought that area was the town of Queen Creek! I wonder where the center, downtown would be... I assume not in the San Tan area. With those boundaries our town wouldn't be considered much farther out then QC... Queen Creek starts at Germann as well I think.

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:48 am by Lovethisarea

QCVillager
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:36 am
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here was the map that Supervisor Martyn was working with...

i assume he'll have someone update the map soon with correct Place Name and maybe make it easier to see.  maybe even a list of the subdivisions that are impacted (i saw that list already someplace on this forum i think)

 


Lovethisarea
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 05:00 am
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Thanks for the answer QCVillager. :) So, my address stays Queen Creek, AZ unless the TOQC gets to keep 85242. That will be determined by July 1st right?

pcresident
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:31 am
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PJ22 wrote: So people that live in the zip code 85242 but are within the drawn boundaries of the new San Tan Valley will be a Queen Creek postal address but reside within San Tan Valley?

It'll change if/when we incorporate or TOQC is successful in keeping 85242

PJ22
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:24 am
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So people that live in the zip code 85242 but are within the drawn boundaries of the new San Tan Valley will be a Queen Creek postal address but reside within San Tan Valley?

QCVillager
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:10 am
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Lovethisarea wrote: Thank You to those who worked hard to get this area a name! I am pleased to hear that the name is San Tan Something. So, starting July,1st is it an option for us to use this name as well? Our zip is 85242... well actually that changes to 85142 July, 1st


no, 85242 (which TOQC is pushing USPS to keep) would still be Queen Creek.  and if we are not successful in our efforts and the zip code went to 85142... that would still be Queen Creek.

see Supervisor Martyn's post from June 3rd, here... BryanMartyn wrote: Friends,

I was hoping to get some more time to canvas this topic.  But, the new zip codes are accelerating the issue...

Attached is a map of the proposed municipality currently know as Queen Creek, San Tan, Greater San Tan Area, Johnson Ranch, Hunt Highway, San Tan Heights, Copper Basin, Pecan Creek, Skyline, Little Mexico... You get the picture.  The community needs a name. 

Here is the process that was used to help determine the most current choice, Bella Vista, Arizona. 

As far as how we came upon the name, we (myself and Sheriff Babeu mostly) have spoken to over two hundred local citizens (multiple HOAs).  I have explained how the original San Tan wasn’t really an option.  The Gila Indian Reservation has a San Tan, AZ only a few miles from here. 

Johnson Ranch, AZ has been considered unacceptable by most. 

Then we looked at local history; Schnepf, AZ, Poston, AZ, Gantzel, AZ, Combs, AZ, Magma, AZ.  Only a few, very few, have felt the community identified with these figures. 

Then we tried some native plant names; Ironwood, AZ, Mesquite, AZ, Ocotillo, AZ.  There have been a few people who liked the plant names. 
 
Then we talked about the location of the geographic center of the community.  The middle is on Gantzel between Combs and Bella Vista.  That led to the suggestion of Bella Vista.  Bella Vista has been resoundingly accepted by most.  People seem to like the way it sounds.  They appreciate the Spanish heritage.  And they like that it doesn’t really belong to any HOA.  It is in the middle of the community, for the community.  So, there you have it. 
 
Some have commented on naming a community after a street.  It might not be quite a stretch…Scottsdale Road, Mesa Drive, Chandler Boulevard, Gilbert Road, or even Queen Creek… 

 
Why now?  What is the rush?
One of the things to point out is the need to get the word out about the newly proposed name.  With the changes in zip code next month, we have the chance to get the name and number changed at the same time.  85142 will remain Queen Creek.  Unfortunately, the postal district is population/district based and not community based.  However, 85140 and 85143 could be listed as the new community's name. 

Finally, the name of the community is independent of incorporation.  The area needs to have an identity.  Much of an identity is the name.  A community rallies around its name or a common feature.  We don’t have a common feature, yet.  But we can have a name.  Both Gold Canyon and Awatukee are examples of communities with a name and no incorporation.
 
This name, Bella Vista, is not a done deal.  Although literally hundreds of citizens have had said they like Bella Vista, there are over 79k citizens within the proposed boundary.  I'm asking for your input on the name.  I know there will be hundreds of questions on the map/incorporation/hospitals/taxes/roads/police/fire.  If we can focus on the name for a week, that would be great.  We have lots of time to dive into the other issues. 

This is the beginning phase of the process; education.  We need to start the process and get as much public involvement as possible. 

Sincerely,
Bryan 


 

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:13 am by

pipeman
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 03:53 am
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CSI_QueenCreek wrote: Hey everyone that is bitc*ing about BLC Better Living Coalition and GSTAC Greater San Tan Area Coalition... if you don't like them, then WHY are you also bitc*ing about a name change for the area and about incorporation?

The FASTEST way to take all control away from old BLC'rs and new GSTAC'rs is to become a City! A city has elections which is something BLC and GSTAC have never allowed. Want to get back at BLC and GSTAC and want to be in control of our own destiny??? Then lets pick a name, any name and get on with it already!

AHHHHH hello, it is those that are b**ching about these two groups are the ones pushing for a name, not b**ching about getting a name.

QCVillager
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 03:49 am
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Congratulations San Tan Valley ! 

i am very much looking forward to all the residents of San Tan Valley being able to rally around a common theme/name/identity as a community and look forward to working together towards common goals for the region.

Regards, Jeff Brown

Lovethisarea
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 03:23 am
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Thank You to those who worked hard to get this area a name! I am pleased to hear that the name is San Tan Something. So, starting July,1st is it an option for us to use this name as well? Our zip is 85242... well actually that changes to 85142 July, 1st

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 03:26 am by Lovethisarea

Bambi2
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 02:21 am
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I am thankful a name was agreed upon and we can proceed with an identity.  I've been waiting for this since 1999.

Based on my understanding, Tisha did an outstanding job of organizing and making this happen for everyone.  It's good to see an active resident and local business owner involved in assisting the people. 

Thank you Tisha for your hard work and deligence in this matter.

B.

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 02:23 am by Bambi2

nybrian
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 12:45 am
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And either Queen Creek, 85142 or San Tan Valley, 85142.

dejavu
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 12:41 am
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So, it is San Tan Valley, Arizona 85143?  I think that is fine.

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 12:46 am by dejavu

PJ22
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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 12:27 am
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Wow, I'll be anxious to see the stats.  I'm content with the outcome and am looking forward to moving our area forward.  Thanks for keeping us up to date.

citizen1
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 11:56 pm
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It's official...the name has been chosen as of 3:15pm today!!!!!!!:)

Click Here:  http://www.apachejunctiontoday.com

 

 

PJ22
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 10:47 pm
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I'd love to know which name came out on top.  Given the 'parity' comment, I'm guessing it's still going to be Bella Vista, no matter if San Tan Valley came out on top. 

When considering the 'parity' issue, I'd like to know exactly how far the farthest point of the area in consideration is from the San Tan mountains.  All I hope for at this point is a decent, rational explanation for going with whichever name, because I think 'Bella Vista' has more issues of 'parity' because of the subdivision with 'Bella Vista' in the name.  'San Tan Valley' is at least named after a landmark and not a subdivision. 

Oh well, at least the process was more open and more people had a chance to speak their mind.  Assuming that it is Bella Vista, I can sure live with that more than some of the other names I saw on the ballot.

citizen1
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 10:16 pm
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I can say that the process has been very positive today.  Tisha was there to oversee everything, the Press was there and one of the HOA Presidents.  Ballots were counted diligently and all voices were heard from both the online ballots, email ballots and those from last night's town meeting. 

You'll be intereted to know that one of the top picks was San Tan Valley and is strongly being considered.

http://www.pinalcountytoday.com

 

Lovethisarea
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 10:09 pm
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The people of this area never really had a choice, we will get whatever name has been chosen for us. Why not just tell us what it is.

nybrian
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 09:54 pm
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citizen1 wrote: TWO NAMES EMERGE.  CLICK HERE:

http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=440&Itemid=71

 

and here we go..........................

citizen1
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 09:43 pm
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TWO NAMES EMERGE.  CLICK HERE:

http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=440&Itemid=71

 

citizen1
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 09:41 pm
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TOP TWO NAMES EMERGE!  A DECISION HAS BEEN MADE - SORT OF:  CLICK HER FOR DETAILS AND THE STORY:

http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=440&Itemid=71

 

 

citizen1
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 07:48 pm
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Check out the latest article on the name change from last night's open town hall meeting:

http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=439&Itemid=71

Here are comments that were posted LIVE last night from the town meeting including questions that the residents had and Martyn's answers..

http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=79&func=view&catid=30&id=308

 

 

spiff
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:46 pm
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What could happen is something like this:

No Change - 30%
Name 1 - 28%
Name 2 - 19%
Name 3 - 13%
Name 4 - 8%
Other - 2%

"No change" would win with 30%, even though 70% wanted a new name.

Hopefully won't go down that way, but could see it happening.

Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:47 pm by spiff

dejavu
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:36 pm
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It will be interesting to see what new area name is plucked from the published list after the 'No change', remain as 'Queen Creek' option is voted in by the 'silent majority'.

CSI_QueenCreek
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:20 pm
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Hey everyone that is bitc*ing about BLC Better Living Coalition and GSTAC Greater San Tan Area Coalition... if you don't like them, then WHY are you also bitc*ing about a name change for the area and about incorporation?

The FASTEST way to take all control away from old BLC'rs and new GSTAC'rs is to become a City! A city has elections which is something BLC and GSTAC have never allowed. Want to get back at BLC and GSTAC and want to be in control of our own destiny??? Then lets pick a name, any name and get on with it already!

2 cents
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 04:15 pm
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Martyn Gives Clear Message: We Need to be Ready 


Tuesday, 23 June 2009




By Jill Jones

Pinal County Today

UNINCORPORATED QUEEN CREEK- A standing-room-only crowd of approximately 400 people packed the gymnasium of Circle Cross Ranch Elementary School at 6:30 p.m. on June 22, 2009 to voice their views and cast their votes on a proposed name change for the Greater San Tan Area Community, also known as unincorporated Queen Creek.


Nearly 80,000 people live in the Greater San Tan Area, an unincorporated community, which is also the largest community in Pinal County; made up of over 70 separate subdivisions and Home Owner Associations (HOA).


Resident activist Tisha Castillo addressed those attending saying it was her hope that the community could come together as one voice; a voice that could be heard and supported by their elected officials. A step in that direction would require the community to agree upon a name that would help create an identity for the community, which up until now has simply been known as an unincorporated area of Pinal County near Queen Creek, aka; the Greater San Tan Area.


Pinal County Supervisor Bryan Martyn, who has been attending community meetings for months in an effort to unite the residents and assist them in creating a unified community with a recognizable identity, explained that he originally expected to have a time period of six to eight months to achieve the goal, however; the plan was put on the fast track due when the U.S. Postal Service announced a change in zip codes for the area, effective July 1, 2009.


Martyn said he kicked the identity plan into high gear, after hearing about the zip code change, in an effort to prevent residents from having to go through multiple address changes. If a new name could be agreed upon before July 1, he explained, the new name and zip code could be implemented at the same time.


Martyn said he worked with both Queen Creek and Florence city councils to come up with a defined border for the 67-square-mile unincorporated San Tan area. He said that the goal is to unify the community, in preparation for economic development, independent of any possible future incorporation efforts.


"When the world starts to recover (from a downturn economy) we need to be ready," said Martyn, explaining that the first thing to do is to come up with a name – an identity. An identifiable, brandable name; a name that is also legal based on Arizona Revised Statutes. (See our Live Forum for community comments from last night's meeting:http://www.goldcanyontoday.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=79&func=view&catid=30&id=308). The name San Tan is already utilized by the San Tan Indian community, and not a viable option.


"The strongest companies in the world do have cash," said Martyn, who said he believes these companies are poised to take advantage of the situation. "Economic development will not wait. We need to be proactive instead of reactive. Being proactive will bring great dividends in the future. It’s not the actual name that’s important – it’s the identity. In the long run identity counts."


"My sole intent is to set this community up for future of economic development and prosperity," said Martyn, further explaining that if they (residents) want to attract businesses they need an attractive name and identity. "We first need to get on the map and then solicit economic development, light industrial and commercial enterprises that can bring jobs to the area. We need head-of-household income jobs."


Martyn opened the name change subject up for discussion and was put on the "hot seat" so to speak by San Tan residents who were opposed to making a decision regarding a name change. One individual who was opposed to Martyn’s ideas was Pecan Creek resident Dina Larsen, who was extremely vocal in her opposition to Martyn’s ideas for the area.


"This is not about Bryan Martyn; this is about this community. I have a responsibility to the 80,000 citizens," said Martyn. "My hope is that they (residents) at least felt they were heard."


Resident’s were able to cast votes for their choice of name at the meeting or online until midnight that evening. Names on the ballot included; Acacia Valley, Agave, Bella Verde, Bella Vista, Carter, Cholla Valley, Cholla Vista, Creekside, Goldmine, Goldmine Valley, Ironwood, Ironwood Heights, Ironwood Vista, Johnson, Kennedy, Mansel, Mountain View, Palo Verde Hills, Poston Butte, Primrose Hill, Queen Creek Heights, Saguaro Valley, Santana, San Tan Area, San Tan East, San Tan Ridge, San Tan Trails, San Tan Valley, San Tan Vistas, Superstition Valley, Valle Del Sol or no change.


Philip Wakeman of Johnson Ranch believes the name change is a done deal. "I think it’s a good thing," said Wakeman.


Doug Nash of Rancho Bella Vista shared his neighbor’s sentiments. He said his zip code has been changed three times already. "Let’s make the changes all at once," suggested Nash.


Ms. Castillo said she didn’t have a preference for any particular name. "I want the community to choose the name, not someone else."


Voting results on the name change will be available Tuesday afternoon at http://www.PinalCountyToday.com.

Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 04:17 pm by 2 cents

Bambi2
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:31 pm
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Nybrian.  You're right.  It should have been done years ago, but it was stopped continually by members of the Better Living Coalition (yep; yet another coalition formed by GB.).  These coalition members were just about all rural and wanted to protect their rural lifestyles.  That is understood and appreciated, but......They stopped all growth, other than rural, on Hunt up to Thompson, and wanted to decide our future based on their vision.  That's why that area is not developed.  Now that person sits on the P and Z, yet again determining what's good for us and what's not.....but as a public official now, so he cannot  engage with the BLC, or GSTAC or other types of entities. He now represents everyone wants and needs.   Therefore, we are beginning to make some headway without that interference.  Let's not stop the momentum, because without economic development to support our vision and lifestyles, we will become a out of control suburb nightmare. 

That's also part of the reason the rurals are not a part of this city.  To appease them and I imagine to refrain them from stopping this process once again. 

So we have a cleared road now, to progress, thanks to Bryan's hard and diligent work to make it happen.  We have someone we gave the power to, via elections, that has taken the bull by the horn.  That's why we elected him....because he demonstrated that ability.  

Let's take advantage of it and work towards this city before we grow any bigger without a buildout number we can control.  Right now, the Developers control that number.  Queen Creek has a buildout number of 90,000.   That's part of the reason they can't take us on....they have local jurisdiction over what happens within their boundaries,and have decided their maximum control area.  And by the way, they are still fighting with the USPS, to have their own zip code within their own boundaries; not extending out to STH.  What name will you use then?  Me too.

 Who has the vision; control; and destiny of us at this time?  GSTAC?  A quasi organization set up to direct growth under their auspices which is controlled by developers and business.  Those guys should not be in control.  They should sit on an Economic Development Committee and offer their insight and how it impacts our vision, not theirs, for us to decide the benefits.  Us is the people and the Constitution states we the people are in control of our destiny.....not developers and business.  What happens to us, is to be decided in the Board of Supervisors Chambers, not A Developers Office in Mesa or Chamber of Commerce or Business office or Dentist office. 

Out of control growth?  This is how I perceived what happened via media and developers and builders input: When George Johnson first came out here to develop this area under the auspices of Johnson Ranch, Stan Grifith (our County Manager then) saw that as an opportunity for income for the County......and subsequently for him, all under the table.  Thus he's serving time in the Florence Prison for "stealing" our money and putting us behind the 8 ball. 

But Stan invited developers into his office first, with a plan and map of George's vision for this area, and proceeded to give these developers breaks if they would just come out here and buy up George's lots.  They came, and reaped the benefits by cutting deals in a back room,  the County, via Stan, forgiving impact fees that would improve our roads and lifestyles out here.  Stan contends the BOS knew about this.  Sandie said not true.

Don't stop this process.  Let it work itself out thru our elected leadership....BOS and the people's approval of that process thru the system that is set up now.  Allow economic development to help pay our way, otherwise our taxes will go up, whether we become a city or not.  We can't maintain 60k people and yet more to come, without local juristiction imo.

By the way, I had a meeting with QC yesterday.  Banner is still in Pinal's auspices as they have alot invested in it, plus credits given to them by us that they don't want to let go of.  I say that Banner is waiting to see if we do become a city, as that's what Hospitals and other developements prefer....local juristiction once again. 

Time is of the Essence! 


Last edited on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 03:49 pm by Bambi2

pipeman
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:52 am
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Yep time will tell for sure. Remember a possible vote for incorpration is 17 months away. The name we get now is not the name we would need to stick with for a city name. Yes, it is that easy to change providing we follow the law as Bryan is going to do. And we use a name approved by the USPS.

I have seen this done countless times throughout my life in different parts of the country. It just happen in Illinois not that long ago.

Well off to complete my last paper to complete my MBA. Good night ny, I'm sure we will hash at it again tomorrow :D

nybrian
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:47 am
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SHAFT wrote: Come on ny, you gotta agree with Bryan about doing this sooner rather than later for the economic reasons.  And besides, I doubt "Bella Vista" will be what a majority of the people vote for anyways - so 200 people probably won't be making the decision for 80,000.  In any case, you and I both agree on the need for an identity, so at least (whatever the name ends up being) we'll have our first step accomplished.


It should have been done years ago.  I really believe it's too late for most of the area.  And there is so much land at and near Williams Gateway that I doubt many will be looking for land down here. 

And I'm not going to vote for incorporation if along with it comes a name that I think will devalue the area, and my home price.  And it should be apparent that Bella Vista would be thought of as a joke.  So I'd rather San Tan Heights remain 'Queen Creek', and retain any benefit that may come with the name.

nybrian
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:38 am
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Well, time will tell on the incorporation vote.  I'm guessing people aren't going to vote to raise their taxes.  I'm guessing that people who may have been willing to vote for a city will vote no just because of a name that they don't want put into the books beyond the post office.  I'm guessing that a year from now we will still be debating the name, and people will continue to have hard feelings about the way this went down. 

SHAFT
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:37 am
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Word Pipeman.

Gotta see it from a historical perspective.  I know the guy Pipeman is talking about who basically ran this area back in the day when Sandi Smith was in office.  Yep, he was one of the co-founders of GSTAC.  Things are looking up.  Even if Bryan had based his decision on the name on the opinions of only 200 people, that would have been 199 more than Sani Smith would have based her decision on.

SHAFT
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:32 am
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Come on ny, you gotta agree with Bryan about doing this sooner rather than later for the economic reasons.  And besides, I doubt "Bella Vista" will be what a majority of the people vote for anyways - so 200 people probably won't be making the decision for 80,000.  In any case, you and I both agree on the need for an identity, so at least (whatever the name ends up being) we'll have our first step accomplished.

pipeman
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:30 am
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nybrian wrote: pipeman wrote: ny, I have not heard of such a thing with TOQC, nor is it in their minutes from their meeting special or regular session. I will look into this before I comment.

I see you said you were going to the meeting tonight. Did you go? What did you think?  I myself found it to be a joke as was expecetd seeing who was promoting it.


I don't know the gstac people, so I don't really have an opinion on them.  The meeting went exactly as I thought it would go---Martyn will have his way and about 200 people will make the decision for 80,000 people.  The thing is, all that would have needed to happen for you and I to be on the same side is for Martyn to say he is going to hold 3 or 4 public hearings, get a list of 3 or 4 potential names, and then put it to an actual vote.  I have no confidence in gstac, martyn, or anything other than an actual vote, put to the entire community. 

Believe me, next year, when he tries to push through incorporation, he's going to need every vote.  I guess there are no rules for the name change---if he decides a name doesn't meet his standard he can and will overrule the vote.  But that's not the way he gets to do it with incorporation.  And by winning this small battle he has turned me, and I'm guessing a bunch of other people, against anything he may put to a vote.

I'm guessing in the military you need to be decisive and just make a decision.  The hell with what people think.  But in building a city I think you need to build a movement, create goodwill, win the public relations battle.  And for me, someone who is relatively new to the area, the gstac people seem like the good guys, the ones who want the people to have a say.

 

GSTAC? They are the goofballs who put on that waste of time tonigh. Tisha and the other baffons standing over by the tables.  All I can say is too bad  you werent here years ago, believe me you would feel entitrely different. The past supervisor allowed on particlar regular citizen like you and me to call the shots when it came to this area. And by the way, that someone was a co-founder of GSTAC.

I seen the meeting differenytly than you, what I seen were more people for getting on with the voter and getting a name. Even the man in the middle on top who fist spoke out that what Bryan did was not right, yet when all was said and done he was convinced as he jumped up and shouted, lets vote for a name.

He will get all the votes he needs for incorpration. Count on it.

GSTAC the good guys..... my my you haven't been here long have you. No they don;t want peoepl to have a say, they are trying to drum up support for their agenda. Their agenda is for them and only them.

I hope you stick around ny, you will learn quick enough. You were here when they started GSTAC how did that voting go for you? Who did you vote for to be on the core team? Who did you vote for to be district reps? I know the answers to those questions. It was nobody,becuase they never allowed a vote, they never invited the public to any of their meetings. Where you invited to the YMCA for the secret meeting they held over there, the one I mentioned on here before it hit the papers? A name can not hurt us in any fashion. But this group certainly can.

SHAFT
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:26 am
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Ah you think that was piss poor attendence??  You have higher standards than me!  All I know is that there were a lot more people there than those who came to the Pinal County visioning meetin with the Morrison Institute a couple years ago.

nybrian
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 06:13 am
 Quote  Reply 
pipeman wrote: ny, I have not heard of such a thing with TOQC, nor is it in their minutes from their meeting special or regular session. I will look into this before I comment.

I see you said you were going to the meeting tonight. Did you go? What did you think?  I myself found it to be a joke as was expecetd seeing who was promoting it.


I don't know the gstac people, so I don't really have an opinion on them.  The meeting went exactly as I thought it would go---Martyn will have his way and about 200 people will make the decision for 80,000 people.  The thing is, all that would have needed to happen for you and I to be on the same side is for Martyn to say he is going to hold 3 or 4 public hearings, get a list of 3 or 4 potential names, and then put it to an actual vote.  I have no confidence in gstac, martyn, or anything other than an actual vote, put to the entire community. 

Believe me, next year, when he tries to push through incorporation, he's going to need every vote.  I guess there are no rules for the name change---if he decides a name doesn't meet his standard he can and will overrule the vote.  But that's not the way he gets to do it with incorporation.  And by winning this small battle he has turned me, and I'm guessing a bunch of other people, against anything he may put to a vote.

I'm guessing in the military you need to be decisive and just make a decision.  The hell with what people think.  But in building a city I think you need to build a movement, create goodwill, win the public relations battle.  And for me, someone who is relatively new to the area, the gstac people seem like the good guys, the ones who want the people to have a say.

pipeman
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Location: SAN TAN VALLEY, AZ
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 05:57 am
 Quote  Reply 
ny, I have not heard of such a thing with TOQC, nor is it in their minutes from their meeting special or regular session. I will look into this before I comment.

I see you said you were going to the meeting tonight. Did you go? What did you think?  I myself found it to be a joke as was expecetd seeing who was promoting it.

nybrian
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 05:37 am
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pipeman, if this 900,000 square foot development ever gets built do you think anyone is going to build a center on the other side of Ironwood?

Queen Creek is one step closer to having a hospital in its town boundaries.

The Town Council approved annexing a parcel of land at the northwest corner of Ganzel and Combs roads Wednesday night, an area between the town's current boundaries and the future Banner Ironwood Medical Center campus in unincorporated Pinal County.

The parcel annexed Wednesday is the site of a future 900,000-square-foot power center project by Vestar Development Co., said Wayne Balmer, town planning manager.

Current plans are for the center to open in 2012, although actual construction will depend on when the economy picks up, Balmer said.

That center is projected to eventually bring $2 million a year in tax revenue to Queen Creek, said Patrick Flynn, assistant town manager.

Listen, I wish we had moved sooner to turn this area into a town.  Too little, too late in my opinion.

PJ22
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 05:24 am
 Quote  Reply 
What happened at the meeting?  Any outcomes or conclusions?

pipeman
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 04:51 am
 Quote  Reply 
well the turn out at the meeting tonight was piss-poor, but that has come to be expected out here.

pipeman
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 Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 04:49 am
 Quote  Reply 
nybrian wrote: 2 cents wrote: nybrian wrote:
Counties don't want to deal with large areas of population.....

Pinal's population is about 327,000.  We have about 70-80 thousand people here in the San Tan/Bella Vista/Queen Creek/Unincorporated Pinal area.  There is no way we are going to vote to increase our taxes for a city while still paying more than our share of Pinal's expenses.  Pinal can't fix one road for us---Hunt Highway---yet we are sending them thousands of dollars per household.  And now they want to continue accepting our money while putting the burden of roads and safety on a city which we will need to pay for?  Not going to happen---it's laughable that some people think we are going to vote to increase not only our taxes but to let Pinal off the hook for promises made.  Does anyone listen to the people living here?  People are ready to revolt over an increase in HOA dues of $20, are they going to vote for an increase in taxes of hundreds? 

I am all for incorporation if it pays for itself.  It can't. 

Can we guarantee that the people on the Ironwood corridor will not cross Ironwood to shop in newly annexed QC shopping centers, and instead travel down Gary to shop in our town?  Not going to happen.

Can we get businesses to locate in our area when the Williams Field Airport has all kinds of land, access to freeways and rail and air, and most important, special tax incentives from the Federal Government? 

Will I, in the Hunt area, have to pay to develop the Ironwood area?  As far as I can tell the Ironwood area is needing much more road work than even us by Hunt.

Well, I look forward to meeting some of you this evening.  Unfortunately I'm not expecting much to be accomplished other than a rubber stamp to Mr Martyn's desires.  Then the real battle starts.... 

 


nybrian, what is up the Ironwood corridor? Anything that will generate revenue? How about down south of Copper Basin? How about east of the railroad tracks south of Skyline? Any revenue generators?

Does martyns map need to be the way it will be? Can't there be some cherry picking? Why incorporate areas that are a burden rather than revenue generators (or potential revenue generators)? Don't take martyns little red lines to be gospel. Create your own red lines.

just my 2 cents


I don't want to sound like I'm putting down the Ironwood corridor, I almost moved there.  But here are my problems:

The area that will be turned into the big power center shopping has been annexed into QC already.  NY, you are incoorect on this.There will be no big box retail built on the 'new town' side of Ironwood so almost all the people living there will give their tax money to QC. Once again, incorrect. Did you know that discussion has been ongoing with a large company from Germany to build along Ironwood.

When I was looking for a house in the area I found many dirt roads, bridges that were out, and roads that just ended that will eventually need to be built.  In our little area we have only two real roads---Hunt and Gantzel, as well as a short stretch of Gary.  Everything else is pretty much small roads. 

I'm afraid that Hunt will be shortchanged, since much of the retail income will come from here and be spent fixing the area around Ironwood.

I just don't see where bigger is necessarily better.  Create a city of about 40,000 residents west of the tracks and south of empire and we can thrive.

2 cents
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 11:28 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Now you're talking. Magma north & west of the RR to Skyline then east to the canal then north to maybe Ocotillo. Does it need to be larger than that to begin with?

nybrian
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 11:16 pm
 Quote  Reply 
2 cents wrote: nybrian wrote:
Counties don't want to deal with large areas of population.....

Pinal's population is about 327,000.  We have about 70-80 thousand people here in the San Tan/Bella Vista/Queen Creek/Unincorporated Pinal area.  There is no way we are going to vote to increase our taxes for a city while still paying more than our share of Pinal's expenses.  Pinal can't fix one road for us---Hunt Highway---yet we are sending them thousands of dollars per household.  And now they want to continue accepting our money while putting the burden of roads and safety on a city which we will need to pay for?  Not going to happen---it's laughable that some people think we are going to vote to increase not only our taxes but to let Pinal off the hook for promises made.  Does anyone listen to the people living here?  People are ready to revolt over an increase in HOA dues of $20, are they going to vote for an increase in taxes of hundreds? 

I am all for incorporation if it pays for itself.  It can't. 

Can we guarantee that the people on the Ironwood corridor will not cross Ironwood to shop in newly annexed QC shopping centers, and instead travel down Gary to shop in our town?  Not going to happen.

Can we get businesses to locate in our area when the Williams Field Airport has all kinds of land, access to freeways and rail and air, and most important, special tax incentives from the Federal Government? 

Will I, in the Hunt area, have to pay to develop the Ironwood area?  As far as I can tell the Ironwood area is needing much more road work than even us by Hunt.

Well, I look forward to meeting some of you this evening.  Unfortunately I'm not expecting much to be accomplished other than a rubber stamp to Mr Martyn's desires.  Then the real battle starts.... 

 


nybrian, what is up the Ironwood corridor? Anything that will generate revenue? How about down south of Copper Basin? How about east of the railroad tracks south of Skyline? Any revenue generators?

Does martyns map need to be the way it will be? Can't there be some cherry picking? Why incorporate areas that are a burden rather than revenue generators (or potential revenue generators)? Don't take martyns little red lines to be gospel. Create your own red lines.

just my 2 cents


I don't want to sound like I'm putting down the Ironwood corridor, I almost moved there.  But here are my problems:

The area that will be turned into the big power center shopping has been annexed into QC already.  There will be no big box retail built on the 'new town' side of Ironwood so almost all the people living there will give their tax money to QC.

When I was looking for a house in the area I found many dirt roads, bridges that were out, and roads that just ended that will eventually need to be built.  In our little area we have only two real roads---Hunt and Gantzel, as well as a short stretch of Gary.  Everything else is pretty much small roads. 

I'm afraid that Hunt will be shortchanged, since much of the retail income will come from here and be spent fixing the area around Ironwood.

I just don't see where bigger is necessarily better.  Create a city of about 40,000 residents west of the tracks and south of empire and we can thrive.

2 cents
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Joined: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 11:02 pm
 Quote  Reply 
nybrian wrote:
Counties don't want to deal with large areas of population.....

Pinal's population is about 327,000.  We have about 70-80 thousand people here in the San Tan/Bella Vista/Queen Creek/Unincorporated Pinal area.  There is no way we are going to vote to increase our taxes for a city while still paying more than our share of Pinal's expenses.  Pinal can't fix one road for us---Hunt Highway---yet we are sending them thousands of dollars per household.  And now they want to continue accepting our money while putting the burden of roads and safety on a city which we will need to pay for?  Not going to happen---it's laughable that some people think we are going to vote to increase not only our taxes but to let Pinal off the hook for promises made.  Does anyone listen to the people living here?  People are ready to revolt over an increase in HOA dues of $20, are they going to vote for an increase in taxes of hundreds? 

I am all for incorporation if it pays for itself.  It can't. 

Can we guarantee that the people on the Ironwood corridor will not cross Ironwood to shop in newly annexed QC shopping centers, and instead travel down Gary to shop in our town?  Not going to happen.

Can we get businesses to locate in our area when the Williams Field Airport has all kinds of land, access to freeways and rail and air, and most important, special tax incentives from the Federal Government? 

Will I, in the Hunt area, have to pay to develop the Ironwood area?  As far as I can tell the Ironwood area is needing much more road work than even us by Hunt.

Well, I look forward to meeting some of you this evening.  Unfortunately I'm not expecting much to be accomplished other than a rubber stamp to Mr Martyn's desires.  Then the real battle starts.... 

 


nybrian, what is up the Ironwood corridor? Anything that will generate revenue? How about down south of Copper Basin? How about east of the railroad tracks south of Skyline? Any revenue generators?

Does martyns map need to be the way it will be? Can't there be some cherry picking? Why incorporate areas that are a burden rather than revenue generators (or potential revenue generators)? Don't take martyns little red lines to be gospel. Create your own red lines.

just my 2 cents

nybrian
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Joined: Fri Jul 11th, 2008
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 10:34 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Bambi2 wrote: pcresident wrote: So two things keeps bothering me...

1.  There is a comment on one of the thousand articles that have come out since thursday of last week about someone who lives in the "rurals" fighting us, because we ruined their way of life.  Honestly, we didn't build the houses out here or get the permits to build the houses out here, we just bought them...

2. Same thing with the county complaining about how much we cost opposed to how much we contribute... shouldn't they have figured all this out before they started handing out housing permits like halloween candy?

Just my humble opinion on this one.

 

 


Don't worry.  The Rurals aren't going  to be included in the city......maybe annex in later.  Not sure what way of life they think they have, but that will be "upgraded" in the future too.  They will be held to a higher standard by the County and rules will be enforced, instead of ignored.

The housing crunch started in 05 under different leadership.  They were "caught off guard" as they put it.  So yes, they didn't plan for it....yet kept it coming.  Long story.  Stan Griffith carries most of that blame.  And he's in prison paying for his misdeeds against the people.  He's your culprit.

My research tells me that most Counties don't want to deal with large concentrated areas of people.  They usually encourage them to become local juristictions....in fact help them by paving the way.  Like Bryan is doing for us.


Counties don't want to deal with large areas of population.....

Pinal's population is about 327,000.  We have about 70-80 thousand people here in the San Tan/Bella Vista/Queen Creek/Unincorporated Pinal area.  There is no way we are going to vote to increase our taxes for a city while still paying more than our share of Pinal's expenses.  Pinal can't fix one road for us---Hunt Highway---yet we are sending them thousands of dollars per household.  And now they want to continue accepting our money while putting the burden of roads and safety on a city which we will need to pay for?  Not going to happen---it's laughable that some people think we are going to vote to increase not only our taxes but to let Pinal off the hook for promises made.  Does anyone listen to the people living here?  People are ready to revolt over an increase in HOA dues of $20, are they going to vote for an increase in taxes of hundreds? 

I am all for incorporation if it pays for itself.  It can't. 

Can we guarantee that the people on the Ironwood corridor will not cross Ironwood to shop in newly annexed QC shopping centers, and instead travel down Gary to shop in our town?  Not going to happen.

Can we get businesses to locate in our area when the Williams Field Airport has all kinds of land, access to freeways and rail and air, and most important, special tax incentives from the Federal Government? 

Will I, in the Hunt area, have to pay to develop the Ironwood area?  As far as I can tell the Ironwood area is needing much more road work than even us by Hunt.

Well, I look forward to meeting some of you this evening.  Unfortunately I'm not expecting much to be accomplished other than a rubber stamp to Mr Martyn's desires.  Then the real battle starts.... 

 

Bambi2
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Joined: Tue Apr 7th, 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 10:14 pm
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nunya wrote: Bambi, did you hear anything from Bryan regarding the bang/buck for incorporation versus what we have now? To me that is the only item that matters.


No.  But when I went to post this a.m., his online lite was on, so I assume he has read all these posts and knows of what I requested.  He'll respond eventually.

nunya
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Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 10:10 pm
 Quote  Reply 
Bambi, did you hear anything from Bryan regarding the bang/buck for incorporation versus what we have now? To me that is the only item that matters.

Bambi2
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 10:07 pm
 Quote  Reply 
pcresident wrote: So two things keeps bothering me...

1.  There is a comment on one of the thousand articles that have come out since thursday of last week about someone who lives in the "rurals" fighting us, because we ruined their way of life.  Honestly, we didn't build the houses out here or get the permits to build the houses out here, we just bought them...

2. Same thing with the county complaining about how much we cost opposed to how much we contribute... shouldn't they have figured all this out before they started handing out housing permits like halloween candy?

Just my humble opinion on this one.

 

 


Don't worry.  The Rurals aren't going  to be included in the city......maybe annex in later.  Not sure what way of life they think they have, but that will be "upgraded" in the future too.  They will be held to a higher standard by the County and rules will be enforced, instead of ignored.

The housing crunch started in 05 under different leadership.  They were "caught off guard" as they put it.  So yes, they didn't plan for it....yet kept it coming.  Long story.  Stan Griffith carries most of that blame.  And he's in prison paying for his misdeeds against the people.  He's your culprit.

My research tells me that most Counties don't want to deal with large concentrated areas of people.  They usually encourage them to become local juristictions....in fact help them by paving the way.  Like Bryan is doing for us.

xcali
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Joined: Thu Jun 4th, 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22nd, 2009 09:46 pm
 Quote  Reply 
quote-So two things keeps bothering me...

1.  There is a comment on one of the thousand articles that have come out since thursday of last week about someone who lives in the "rurals" fighting us, because we ruined their way of life.  Honestly, we didn't build the houses out here or get the permits to build the houses out here, we just bought them...

2. Same thing with the county complaining about how much we cost opposed to how much we contribute... shouldn't they have figured all this out before they started handing out housing permits like halloween candy?

Just my humble opinion on this one.  end quote
........................................................................................................................................

Boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head!!   I couldn't agree more.


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