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Dublin Girl
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:19 pm |
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QCVillager wrote: CrimeFighter wrote: Why can't council just pass a no loitering law, put up signs, and start running people out of there?
just off the top of my head, i am thinking that "selective enforcement" issues might arise, potentially leading to the Town being sued. i would think we would want to encourage people to "gather" and "set a spell" at our new library when it opens.
i am hoping to do the same thing myself, maybe just pull up a bench outside the new library (i really want to push the idea of a monument clock near there. indeed, i know i am digressing, but i really want our Town to have a clock tower or bell that strikes the hour. nostalgic, i know).
the library will be located in the same basic area as the current loitering spot. would we be able to encourage the meeting and greeting of our neighbors at the library without running afoul of any implemented loitering laws ?
if your planning to loiter all day every day then you might have something to worry about, but if not then i think your good to go. plus parks are were people are to just hang out, sit around and do nothing, not the parking lots of business.
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 05:25 am |
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Comrade CF,
You mean institute a curfew? Maybe we could just round up all the curfew violators, hmmm....where else have they done this? It seems vaguely familiar somehow....I just can't put my finger on it....oh, that's it Jews in Germany during WWII!
I don't know but I don't envision many people looking for work at 9pm.
Logistically a curfew would never work because the hours in question are part of the prototypical working times. To say, if you are of Hispanic origin you can't be there between X and Y would surely result in lawsuits of some sort.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 03:13 am |
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QCVillager wrote:
the library will be located in the same basic area as the current loitering spot. would we be able to encourage the meeting and greeting of our neighbors at the library without running afoul of any implemented loitering laws ?
Why can't a city designate places and hours when people can and can't loiter? If you want to hang out on the park bench during library hours, then fine. If you are there at 9pm at night, then we arrest you.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 02:22 am |
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CrimeFighter wrote: Why can't council just pass a no loitering law, put up signs, and start running people out of there?
just off the top of my head, i am thinking that "selective enforcement" issues might arise, potentially leading to the Town being sued. i would think we would want to encourage people to "gather" and "set a spell" at our new library when it opens.
i am hoping to do the same thing myself, maybe just pull up a bench outside the new library (i really want to push the idea of a monument clock near there. indeed, i know i am digressing, but i really want our Town to have a clock tower or bell that strikes the hour. nostalgic, i know).
the library will be located in the same basic area as the current loitering spot. would we be able to encourage the meeting and greeting of our neighbors at the library without running afoul of any implemented loitering laws ?
Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 02:22 am by QCVillager
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 02:12 am |
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| Why can't council just pass a no loitering law, put up signs, and start running people out of there?
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Dublin Girl
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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| i'm sure the turn around time is that fast, but maybe if we just keep deporting them they'll get tired of it and not come back over or go somewhere else until we can keep them over permently.....what about arresting them for loitering and then deporting the illegals.....i know i don't shop that area bc it makes me to nervous, i'm not a woman who likes to walk through a large crowd of men i don't know. Can the council has a brainstorming meeting and try to come up with something???
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 04:48 pm |
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| There are some issues (believe it or not) where your Council Persons are essentially powerless. This seems to be one of them. If someone could come up with an idea, which was not illegal and would yield more permanent results, I would imagine the Council would jump at it. Do you think we want people loitering around our Town Center? Some of the Council Members have businesses in close proximity. This has to affect them. I have heard grown men are afraid to go to the Circle K. Personally I have never been bothered by any one of loitering masses but then again, I am not looking for workers. Enforcing rules is great, but can tell you from personal knowledge, I know a person has been deported. It only took him 24-48 hours to return. A more permanent solution for this problem needs to come from a higher level of government. It starts at our borders and with a more comprehensive guest worker program, which involves background checks and much more comprehensive penalty phase for both the employer and employee.
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Dublin Girl
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 02:13 pm |
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| CF, i you see a large group than you should call sheriff joe yourself and report it, i think he has a special phone line just for that......i would but i don't drive through that area much to see it. If your waiting on the council people to do it, it will never be done.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 06:26 pm |
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A loitering law is a great idea. I thought once the new employer sanctions law went into effect that we would see a decrease in the local illegal population. Nope. They, and the people who hire them continue to blatantly thumb their noses at our laws.
Councilpersons, what are you going to do about this law-breaking in our town? Pass the loitering provision, then work with the County to enforce it is my recommendation. How about another call to sheriff Joe in the mean time to clear everyone out for a month?
Last edited on Sat May 10th, 2008 06:32 pm by CrimeFighter
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Dublin Girl
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 09:33 pm |
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| i like the idea however there are kinks to be worked out first....i'm sure CF can approve upon the original thought. Something has to be done it's unsafe, unsightly and detours shopping in those area's.
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starleen
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 03:54 am |
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Guy wrote:
Some examples (?)
So much for giving you the benefit of the doubt. You've got something wrong with your thought processes, perhaps a little psycho-sociopathic problem. Seek help, and please seek another outlet.
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Guy
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 02:50 am |
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clu wrote: I am scared of them because I think it is an invasion of privacy. There are many things one may want to hide or keep private that are not illegal. Can you think of some examples? Having something to hide isn't illegal nor wrong.
Some examples (?):
Having a monobrow.
Placing your finger up your nose to the second knuckle.
Wishing that finger had a fourth knuckle.
Having a fourth knuckle.
Shaving your mustache doing 70 mph (Male or Female).
Wearing a Joe Crummy mask on the 101.
Taking off your Joe Crummy mask.
Giving someone the finger for cutting you off before you cut them off.
Changing a baby diaper in the HOV lane. At 70 mph.
Having a 'Vote For Hillary' bumper sticker.
Having two Hillary bumper stickers.
Are these examples you speak of?
Are do you speak of things that are actually laws that you should abide by?
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Guy
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 11:08 pm |
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| Don't do 'private' things in 'public'...
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clu
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Posted: Mon Feb 18th, 2008 07:52 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote:My point stands. This is no different than the speed cameras. The only people who are scared of them are those who plan on speeding.
I like your passion for stopping the illegals. Mayor Art should put on the ballot a loitering law and the means to enforce it.
With regard to your statement "The only people who are scared of them are those who plan on speeding" is untrue. I am scared of them and do not plan on speeding.
I am scared of them because I think it is an invasion of privacy. There are many things one may want to hide or keep private that are not illegal. Can you think of some examples? Having something to hide isn't illegal nor wrong.
When your privacy is invaded, your dignity is also stripped.
Stripping a human being of dignity is reducing them to less than human.
To my mind, privacy invasion is wrong.
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anothertwocentsworth
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 01:13 am |
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I have heard people say that they wouldn't mind if homeland security searched their home because they have nothing to hide. When Americans start accepting this sort of thing it is scary
i totally agree garden.
as for CF, I won't waste another minute typing a response to you... i got some mowing to do then out to sell some crack, pm me where you want yours delivered.
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luv2garden
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 11:37 pm |
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| This type of mentality, that as long as you have nothing to hide you should allow violation of your civil liberties, is dangerous. I have heard people say that they wouldn't mind if homeland security searched their home because they have nothing to hide. When Americans start accepting this sort of thing it is scary!
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 11:33 pm |
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TheBigShow wrote: Grow up CF. Telling someone that they're going to become a crack dealer is a pretty shallow thing to say. Why don't you give it a rest for a while ok.
Big Show, way to completely miss my point and get bent out of shape over nothing. I simply equated one illegal practice with another. The readers of these posts are intelligent enough to understand that I don't really think 2-cent will deal drugs. He will vote for a candidate with no chance of winning, but no, he won't deal drugs.
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 11:10 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote: TheBigShow wrote: That was a disgusting thing to say about another person and I think you should apologize.
Or... you'll call for my resignation?
My point stands. This is no different than the speed cameras. The only people who are scared of them are those who plan on speeding.
Grow up CF. Telling someone that they're going to become a crack dealer is a pretty shallow thing to say. Why don't you give it a rest for a while ok.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 11:04 pm |
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TheBigShow wrote: That was a disgusting thing to say about another person and I think you should apologize.
Or... you'll call for my resignation?
My point stands. This is no different than the speed cameras. The only people who are scared of them are those who plan on speeding.
Last edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 11:06 pm by CrimeFighter
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 10:57 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote: anothertwocentsworth wrote: cos I got to say, your ideas man are scarey to the point of paranoia...
Are you afraid I'll find the pictures of you picking up illegals for 2-Cent Mexican Landscaping? Don't worry, they won't throw you in the gray-bar hotel, you'll just lose your business license and have to go into another line of work, like dealing crack.
That was a disgusting thing to say about another person and I think you should apologize.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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anothertwocentsworth wrote: cos I got to say, your ideas man are scarey to the point of paranoia...
Are you afraid I'll find the pictures of you picking up illegals for 2-Cent Mexican Landscaping? Don't worry, they won't throw you in the gray-bar hotel, you'll just lose your business license and have to go into another line of work, like dealing crack.
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gsbill
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 08:37 pm |
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| In theory the camera idea sounds good but the follow up would be a huge invasion of privacy and probably violate many peoples civil rights. Keep thinking CF! Thats how great ideas are born.
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anothertwocentsworth
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 07:59 pm |
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This is a cheap and effective way to get the job done. Thank you, I invented this new system myself. Maybe I should patten it before someone steals it.
CF, I don't think anyone is going to thank you. The only good point thus far in this forum uttered from you is the cameras on loop 101, or anywhere else. however... when the camera takes your picture. it knows two things.
1. you are driving (and in a car)
2. you were speeding, or running lights
what you propose, camera to take pictures everytime someone stops (which would set off motion detector for camera to engage) to pick up what you consider an undocumented person. who is going to sift through ALL those pictures? who is going to make calls to make sure that mayor art was only picking up his son jace? or CF stopped to pick up a bag of who knows what, cos I got to say, your ideas man are scarey to the point of paranoia...
keep it up though, I am sure ya got a million more... what would we do without the cf'rs in the world...
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 01:35 am |
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TheBigShow wrote: Just curious CF, if you didn't have them i-legals around, who would have built your house or picked the veggies that go on your table. Or are you going to take up one of those jobs when they leave?
Given that every homebuilder and residential construction contractor in the valley has been laying people off round after round for the last two years, a labor shortage won't be a problem. As for the cost of vegetables, studies have shown that the labor component of the cost is negligible.
Point is, we have a law that was approved by the voters; let's enforce it, not coddle the lawbreakers like Big Show and 2-cent appear to be suggesting we do. This is a cheap and effective way to get the job done. Thank you, I invented this new system myself. Maybe I should patten it before someone steals it.
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2 cents
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 12:44 am |
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Whatdaya think 'Big', how many red-white & blues will be willing to do the menial backbreaking work for $ 6 to 8 /hr.? So then you pay $20 /hr. and I wonder how many of the red-white & blues will GRUMBLE because the head of lettuce costs $29.95? The viscious circle is viscious.
2 cents
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 12:20 am |
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Just curious CF, if you didn't have them i-legals around, who would have built your house or picked the veggies that go on your table. Or are you going to take up one of those jobs when they leave?
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 11:29 pm |
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TheBigShow wrote: Ok and how do you know that every person standing out there is an illegal immigrant and how do you prove it in court?
For one, post signs that say no loitering so you have that against all of them. Second, whoever picked them up will get a call from Sheriff Joe's group asking who they employed or otherwise transported from the place, and for them to provide documentation. If you employ somebody it's your job to show that they have legal documentation.
2-cents, why is this any more like Big Brother than the speed cameras on the Loop 101 in Scottsdale? You break the law, we get it on film and fine you and take away your business license. It will work; as nobody wants the headache of making up stories to explain why they picked up an illegal.
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anothertwocentsworth
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 05:51 pm |
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agree with Big Show on this one. No one wants Big Brother watching... what's next armbands so can know at a distance who is legal and who is not?
there has to be a better way.... CF, I do give you props for the idea as I don't have one to contibute or a solution (as of yet) however, I do know that Big Brother is not the way.
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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| Ok and how do you know that every person standing out there is an illegal immigrant and how do you prove it in court?
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 12:14 pm |
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| While it's good that Sheriff Joe is conducting an occasional raid whenever the local Queen Creek illegal immigrant population becomes too unruly, it isn't an effective method of eliminating our town's problem. Here is a solution that could work. Install two or three surveillance cameras around the intersection of Ocotillo & Ellsworth in protected coverings so they can't be tampered with. Then simply turn the tapes over to Sheriff Joe every week, and let his group fast-forward through the tapes and write down the license plate of every vehicle that picked up a day laborer. The new legislation is in effect; if you knowingly employ an illegal immigrant then you will lose your business license. Regardless of whether the law is currently being comprehensively enforced, documenting every violation should be enough to put a chill on the illegal commerce happening every day in our town's downtown.
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