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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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| Wow. Next time let's all not jump to conclusions, especially when it involves the reputations of kids. And a public forum is probably not the place to air out a grievance against a neighbor before it's been fully researched.
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FAIRNSQUARE
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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Mark,
Remember me? It was nice meeting you too and I am thankful that as fellow neighbors we were all able to meet in a peaceful manner. I was a witness to the conversation between you and the young boy and have to say it was handled well.
The outpour of your feelings while discussing this issue were obvious - and I must say that I too agree with "qclars" that it takes a big person to apologize and bring this matter to a close.
I beg that all those with pets keep them safe & away from danger, to avoid losing them to a vicious attack of a coyote.
I hope the memories of Lexy remain in your heart forever.
Anna
Last edited on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 10:01 pm by FAIRNSQUARE
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qclars
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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heychurchie wrote:
I apologize to everyone, especially the young men and their parents for my accusation. My way of dealing with this horrible incident was to work it out by this Newszap forum I created. Others took it a bit further to the news, and many inquiries to the HOA and city with their concern and help. I will say I'm very happy to see how well our neighborhood and city residents respond to make Queen Creek a better place to live.
Thank you,
Mark Church
Mark:
It takes a big person to apologize like this. Sorry for your loss but proud of the way you have brought this to completion.
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480FAMILY
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 07:55 pm |
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Mr. Church,
It was a pleasure meeting you (although the circumstances were not the greatest).
After our meeting with my son, my husband and I - we hoped that you would come to terms with the version my son gave you. As my husband and I told you, we confide in our son.
I am glad that you kept your word & offered your apology publicly.
Hopefully, now all the name calling & insulting posts will stop throughout all the websites.
Again, we are sorry for your loss - but are relieved to know that my son, nor the other children were guilty of such crime. I just hope all the other posters here who ridiculed the parents & tarnished the reputation of these kids can come forward to apologize as well.
Have a wonderful day. May the grace of the higher being above grant you the ability to overcome this situation and may he help you come to peace, knowing it was not our kids.
Thank you,
CJ Ascencio & Family
Last edited on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 07:58 pm by 480FAMILY
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heychurchie
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Posted: Fri Apr 25th, 2008 05:06 pm |
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Good morning,
I just received a call from the Sheriff's Animal Cruelty dpt. who has been investigating this for the past week and a half. They have a few pictures that I have not seen (not pretty) and have spoken to all involved in this story.
Based off the evidence of the picture, they believe I have been miss led as to what was seen and certain time lines. They stated the picture of the cat shows her laying in a pool of water and she was certainly wet, cats fur have a difficult time soaking in water. This means she had to have been laying there well over a half hour or so by the time these pictures were taken. Also, the wound showed evidence of lick marks near it, which would be consistent with a coyote attack. They mentioned the open wound is not as long as stated and it's consistent again with the way in which a coyote kills.
I have only been concerned with evidence and unfortunately, all I could ever go by is what was told to me by those that witnessed what they did and had no reason to embellish the truth. The truth given by the Animal Cruelty dept. is based on fact from pictures and their experience of cases very similiar for years, I take this to be the truth.
What must have happened, our cat got out the doggy door right after our leaving at 5:45am and was very soon attacked (before kids came through for the school bus). She would have been laying there for a good half hour or so before being seen by these children, and of course their curiousity got the best of them and they got caught on camera. Their reaction when approached by my neighbor was not of kind words and this of course lead to further belief of their guilt.
I apologize to everyone, especially the young men and their parents for my accusation. My way of dealing with this horrible incident was to work it out by this Newszap forum I created. Others took it a bit further to the news, and many inquiries to the HOA and city with their concern and help. I will say I'm very happy to see how well our neighborhood and city residents respond to make Queen Creek a better place to live.
Thank you,
Mark Church
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 05:17 am |
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starleen wrote: CF, hybrid wolves attacking pets is one thing, and a kid getting burn injuries is another. And removed from those is Lexi's deatn. But we don't need to establish a grief scale to rank what we should and should not attend to.
Absolutely. I don't tear up every time I eat a hamburger in memory of the cow.
I understand that the fact that some kids may have been involved is concerning, but no, it doesn't mean those kids are going to grow up to be child-molestors or serial killers. It doesn't mean that this generation of kids is worse than any other. They shouldn't have killed the cat, if in fact they did kill it. If they didn't kill it than they are guilty of nothing. I think we are all getting a little carried away with accusations of something like this.
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starleen
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 04:35 am |
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CrimeFighter wrote: I guess I'm going to have to be the one to point out that this is a cat we are talking about. I didn't see anybody shedding tears for the cats that were torn up by the hybrid wolves that were roaming our neighborhood some time back. There is a greater outpouring of grief over this cat than happens when a kid gets half of his body burned, which happened concurrently with this story here in Queen Creek, although nobody seems to care; apparently everyone is too focused on mourning the local cat.
CF, hybrid wolves attacking pets is one thing, and a kid getting burn injuries is another. And removed from those is Lexi's deatn. But we don't need to establish a grief scale to rank what we should and should not attend to.
It all is a pit, but to offer that we should not discuss one issue because it is less worthy than another issue -
Take a number?
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heychurchie
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 04:10 am |
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Crimefighter, our hearts and prayers certainly go out to the burned young boy and his family.
To answer your inquiry why this has garnered so much attention, it's the way in which the cat was likely killed, not the fact that a cat is dead.
This killing was the act of a person, not a wild animal, not a car, it was a malicous act by someone with no regard/respect to a living, breathing, loving, pet.
We're sorry if that is not concerning to you.
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QCQC
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 03:01 am |
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Let's assume that the boys found the cat dead, witnesses saw the dead cat kicked, a straight cut that was consistent with an instrument along the underbelly and the intestines spread around.
Had this just been a 7 year old poking a dead animal, this would be indeed normal curiosity. Instead it was 3 boys aged 13 who kicked and mutilated a dead pet.
No one is saying that these kids will become murderers, everyone is saying that this is very concerning behavior and that they need help. Research shows that animal mistreatment by kids can lead to mistreatment of other people without help.
Whether it is Michael Vick's fight dogs or the QC man arrest for starving his dog on Monday or pets who die in hot cars, our society is outraged at animal mistreatment.
We value humane treatment of dogs, cats and horses in our society. We also value humane treatment to children, the elderly and the disabled. These are good values and they are connected values. This value isn't present in all places in this world.I'm very proud of our belief in our country of caring for those weaker than ourselves.
Last edited on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 03:23 am by QCQC
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 02:38 am |
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| I guess I'm going to have to be the one to point out that this is a cat we are talking about. I didn't see anybody shedding tears for the cats that were torn up by the hybrid wolves that were roaming our neighborhood some time back. There is a greater outpouring of grief over this cat than happens when a kid gets half of his body burned, which happened concurrently with this story here in Queen Creek, although nobody seems to care; apparently everyone is too focused on mourning the local cat. Last edited on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 02:39 am by CrimeFighter
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QCVillager
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 01:53 am |
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heychurchie, i didn't call out any facts. indeed, i have only questions.
again, please accept my sincerest condolences. i cannot even fathom how difficult this must be for you.
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FAIRNSQUARE
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 01:29 am |
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HeyChurchie,
I understand your post and your timelines. You make many valid points.
I spoke to the mother of the boy shown in the pictures this morning (before I posted my comment) and police did not disclose any contact information for you, not a name, an address or a phone number. But somehow, it was provided to you. Does it occur to you that they felt intimidated by you going to their home accusing the child of killing the cat, when the child claims to not have killed it?
As I said before, I know the children involved. I personally know the parents. The mother would like to send you a written explanation from her son and she too would like to address this matter. I figure posting such document here is very impersonal. Is there a P. O. Box that a letter can be addressed to? Or perhaps an email?
I want you to find closure in this matter, I was well aware you visited their home but did not make a notation of that in my post, as to not to invade your personal privacy of the same. You went over there willingly to listen and ask questions. I commend you for not approaching with aggression. I don't think many people can hold their "cool" especially with a situation as delicate as this. I feel you and your family are entitled to have and express emotion. We are only human. We have feelings. We have concerns.
Again, let me extend my apology for this entire matter. If I come across as rude or overpowering, it is not my intention. There is simply always two sides to each story and my place in this was to present it from the other side. As such, since we all go to the same mailbox - if you do not wish to disclose personal information, maybe they can slide in their response into your mail bin (against the wall). Do you have any suggestions?
Last edited on Wed Apr 16th, 2008 01:31 am by FAIRNSQUARE
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heychurchie
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 01:00 am |
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FAIRNSQUARE & QCvillager, while I agree it is unfair to quickly attack. Let's do look at the "facts" as you so call them:
1. The last time I saw Lexy was that morning around 5:45am saying goodbye to her and our dog before leaving the home.
2. Our neighbor accross the street (he is also 12) saw our cat in his front yard around 6:30am or so.
3. My neighbor next door to me heard a bunch of noise coming from the park, when she looked out her window she noticed young boys pounding a scooter against the park equipment. She was thinking they were vandelizing the park and retrieved her camera to take pictures. As she was taking pictures, she zoomed in a bit and that is when she noticed a few of the kids surrounding my cat.
4. All who witnessed the cats dead body have validated to me without a doubt it was not done by another animal due to the straight cut on her underbelly. I would deduce the same given the time of day this had to have occurred. It certainly was done by someone within a half hour time frame between my neighbors home and the park where she was seen and pictures taken.
I would love to hear from these young men themselves what transpired, and I did approach one of them at their home to speak with him and his father. The young man nor the father were willing to tell me why they were where they were and doing what they were doing. All the father said is his child is innocent and we'll have to wait for the police report. By the way, before anyone replies thinking I went over with an aggressive attitude, I will say, I was a bit emotional but not aggressive. I simply wanted to know why and gave them a chance to tell me their story.
**Lexy must have died some where between 6:30 & 7 (already light outside), she was last seen across the street at my neighbors house. Come to find out, the same scooter these young kids were using to bang the park equipment was stolen from my neighbors porch that morning (that is fact). Also, when my neighbor ran out to understand what was going on, these young men who everyone is so willing to call innocent began to verbally barade him with horrible unspeakable words. And please do not attempt to say that if they were in fact looking to bury the cat as was told, it would be a sign of respect to the cat. If indeed the hole in the park was to bury the cat, the hole was in the sand where all the playground equipment is. This is where little kids play and dig, how horrible would that have been for a young child to dig up while playing. 12 year olds would absolutely know better.
**I as well was a curious 12 year old at one time and have thought about my actions if I were to find a dead animal on my way to school. I may have been curious, but when approached at that moment by an adult I would have been respectful of the situation.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 09:18 pm |
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i too am not convinced that these kids who were talked about in the newspaper killed the cat. i thought about how i would have been at 12yrs old... when i was that age, i am certain that i would have prodded the cat with my shoe to be certain it was dead. that would not have made for a good Kodak moment and yet, it wouldn't have made me guilty of killing a live animal.
there are two parts of this story to me that are the main concerns...
1) where did the shovel come from and when ? if kids are waiting for a bus which one would assume would be coming imminently... then who went to get a shovel and from where ? it could very well be that one of the boys or someone thought it would be an act of kindness or "the right thing to do" to bury the animal. perhaps. i just don't know.
2) was MCSO really hesitant to respond or what it that MCSO deputies recognized immediately that the animal was likely killed by another animal and not a human ? it seems that way.
it is awful that Lexy died, my deepest condolences to heychurchie.
at the same time, i don't think we can say in this forum based on very limited info and a few quotes from a news article that these kids killed her.
we see tragedy everyday, i turned north onto Rittenhouse from Village Loop Rd South this weekend and saw a dark gray obviously dead cat on the east side of the road about 20 yards or so north of the intersection. it had a bald patch where all the fur was missing on it's back behind the head and was obviously run over by a car. that too was someone's pet and they will miss him/her deeply.
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FAIRNSQUARE
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Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 07:32 pm |
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Good day to all. First and foremost, my sincere apologies to "heychurchie" and his family for the loss of their pet - as well as to any other individuals which of whom have lost a pet due to animal cruelty. As shocking as it is to read some of the comments and in viewing the newscast - I beg to all involved in this incident to look at all the issues surrounding this incident in a fair manner.
I personally know some of the children involved and implicated in this case. As you are all aware, yes indeed, a report was taken and an investigation was initiated by our local police. We must look at the facts that are available to us before accusing a child unjustly. While yes, there are pictures showing the children around the cat, there are various versions going on about this whole incident, of course - not one really specifying the actual facts. There were not "shovels" involved. This is plural - meaning more than one. I understand there was one shovel only - and no the children did not have a knife. Neither of these boys "killed" this cat - the Maricopa Sherriff has determined that as well. It is not fair to blame them for the death of your cat - the pictures show children being curious around a dead animal. Aren't we all curious? You make is sound as if these children spend their time looking for cats to kill. This is wrong! While yes, I will give you that these kids should of not bothered to touch the cat; whether they did it out of curiousity or with the intent to give the cat a burial. The boys involved in this are not "terrorists" as one suggested. A terrorist is a person involved in some type of organization that plans and premeditates violence. It is wrong to take such curiousity and blame a child for something that has been proven they did not do.
I too live in the Villages and have seen many dead animals lying around. Both cats and dogs. As a matter of fact, there is a large grey cat also dead on the side of the street (in the same Villages). Obviously there is some sick individual committing these crimes, but to blame some kids because the curiousity got the best of them is not right.
Think about it. When you see an aminal lying somewhere, what do you do? You go to it, move it to see if it is alive or dead. Right? Is this not what the pictures depict? While it is not uncommon to "add to a story" or flourish it - we should look at the evidence and the facts. These boys found this cat, which had already been killed. You should dwell more into looking into finding who killed you cat. Instead of blaming children who are photographed next to a cat, have been found NOT responsible - you should dedicate a little more of your time in requesting police patrol to our area. Not demeaning children's characters.
While I think you are due an apology, for them touching your cat or trying to bury it - I think an apology is also due to the children - they obviously did not do it. Degrading them, calling them terrorists is not helping at all. Yes, kicking a dead cat is wrong. But continuing to blame wrongly is not fair. A picture is worth a thousand words. We have all heard this saying.
In addition, someone mentioned where are the parents - well if this was during or after school hours, maybe the parents were at work. I think most parents work.
I feel, personally, that these children are being attacked for something they did not do. They did not kill your cat. They were curious to touch it, move it or bury it. These are not serial killers. I know many of us have children - and children are curious. This does not make them a terrorist or a serial killer.
We should choose our words wisely. As adults using these types of comparisons and stereotypes makes us just as unjust as the person placing blame. I think any child would be angered when blamed for something they did not do. If they spoke to police and rendered their statement I think they do not speak to anyone else, of course unless the parents consent to it. Ultimately - I feel you deserve an apology. But so do these kids. Do not blame them for "killing" - that is such a strong word. Have we bothered to look at how they perform in school? Let's not judge. Have you tried to arrange a meeting with all the parents and the boys involved?
I am a mother of a 9 year old boy - whenever he is involved in a situation I look into it, I ask questions and I investigate on my own. I trust my son to tell me the truth when questioned. While all kids of all ages can lie, we must rely on the facts.
It hurts me as a parent to see how biased one can become. Some people like to make comments that are out of line and hurtful. Let's be tasteful, not offensive. These boys were not found guilty. We should learn to understand and accept the truth. Not make a mockery out of it.
Last edited on Tue Apr 15th, 2008 07:45 pm by FAIRNSQUARE
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QCQC
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 03:46 am |
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Here is a link to the video of the segment that appearred on ABC Ch. 15 news with a Tribune invesigative reporter. The video is on location in the Villages about the incident of torture and dismemberment of a beloved pet by three 12-year-olds near their school bus stop on Calle de Flores & 223rd St.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/113608
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=1077DB14-EDF5-4A82-A753-FB950AE4C5E3&gsa=true
Villagers, Michael McClure and Heather Currington who witnessed part of the incident appear in the segment. Thank you, Micheal and Heather for speaking out against this type of violence against animals.
Last edited on Sun Apr 13th, 2008 06:34 pm by QCQC
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JulieB
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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| How horrible. I would be absolutely devestated if something like that happened to one of my pets. These parents are appalling. If this goes unpunished, we'll be hearing about these kids years from now. I guarantee it.
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azsunshine
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 02:32 pm |
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| I am so so sorry. I wonder if the responding officer to the scene searched the boys? He would have had probable cause. If they were going to school they shouldn't have been carrying a knife but you never know. Wait a couple days then find out who the kid's friends are and ask around. So Sorry!!!
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heychurchie
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 02:02 pm |
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts and prayers. It appears that my neighbors and HOA hid the gruesome details of the condition of my little "Lexy". I just read a 15 news article that stated it was quite messy, very difficult to think about.
I have called the Sheriff's office twice now and they say it's too early for updates on the case, however, 15 news got an update the following day? The Sheriff's dpt informed them they DO NOT believe the children to be guilty as there were no pictures of proof of the kids swinging the shovels. The Sheriff's dpt went on to state "there is no law against holding a shovel or kicking a dead cat". This was in response to my neighbors mentioning they witnessed them kicking the cat with the shovels in their hand.
I personally approached one of the kids homes, he answered the door and wouldn't look me in the eyes after I told him who I was. I asked to talk to his mother and father, his father came about 5 minutes later. I just said that I wanted to know "WHY", the father proceded to ask me if I was updated on the police report as his child didn't do it. I simply just wanted to hear the story as to why his little boy was caught on camera kicking and holding a shovel next to my little girl. He said, it's being investigated and that I'm already making his child guilty and we'll have to wait till the investigation ends.
The police believe Lexy was killed by another animal during the night from 15 news, impossible as I saw my baby girl that morning around 5:30am before we left in our home, giving her some love before leaving for the day. My neighbors went on to discribe the condition of the cat and mentioned she was cut (perfect slice) at the belly. Animals can't do that, people can.
Many questions: If this kid (that I personally approached) was innocent, why wouldn't he proclaim his innocense to me or look me in the eye? Why wouldn't he want to tell me in his words what really happened? Why would a good parent not want his child to explain to a victim why they were where they were when their child was caught on film? Why are the police stating the children's innocense to the paper but not to me? If it was not the kids caught with shovels at her body, kicking her, and spreading her insides around the park, THEN WHO?
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QCQC
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 12:58 am |
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A. "Slippery Slope" is a legal term that means one thing leads to another with greater consequences. In this instance, I was referring to all the research that shows violence by children against animals leads to violence against other children and can lead to escalating violence in adulthood.
B. "public" being a bad thing may be the case if this is a one time incident but statistics show that violence by kids to animals is becoming more common and more extreme. When the Gilbert bus fight occurred, people finally realized how extreme bus behavior had gotten. I know many of us parents talked to our kids about our expectations about bus behavior after that. This case being covered in the AZ Republic would lead to discussions and education about animal cruelty, it won't lead to a bunch of copy pet killings.
C. I agree the kids needs help. They need a judicial and parental consequence and I think they need to do community service, therapy and an aminal cruelty education program.
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 09:15 pm |
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The slippery slope in this sitaution is kids who assault animals often go on to commit violence against their fellow humans. By committing violence against an animal, those people often have a disconnect on the pain and suffering they are committing towards others. This is an issue serious enough that the sherrif and Phoenix PD have special departments set up to address these issues. I interviewed a representative of the AZ Humane Society about 2 years ago on my show and she talked about people who do stuff like this.
I'm very sorry for your loss "HeyChurchie". I would devestated if someone did that to any of my animals. My sincere condolences go out to you and your family.
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clu
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 05:28 pm |
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QCQC wrote: ... Violence by kids against animals can be a slippery slope to more extreme violence. ...
What's "slippery" about it? Where's the "slope?" These kids should be locked up along with their parents!
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:07 pm |
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Heychurchie,
I am so sorry for your loss and the way in which it occurred. No animal should have had to die that way. It is sick, twisted and just horrible. I am so , so sorry.
These boys are obviously needing some sort of help. I would call Sheriff Joe. I believe he has an animal cruelty investigations branch. If you get nowhere, I would go to the parents (if you know them) and have a serious discussion. I don't know what giving them notoriety for this is a positive thing. By going to the news, it may give others ideas, which I don't know is a good thing.
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QCQC
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 05:31 am |
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On top of calling the main number for the sherriff's department, you might what to call the Sheriff's Animal Cruelty Hotline at 602-876-1681, the Arizona Humane Society 602-395-3874 or 602-216-6441and the Arizona Animal Welfare League Cruelty Hotline at 602-433-2000
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QCQC
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 05:10 am |
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The way your pet was beat to death with shovels is scary. The local news needs to focus on this animal violence as a warning. Violence by kids against animals can be a slippery slope to more extreme violence. You should e-mail the post you put below to newstips@evtrib.com, newstips@arizonarepublic.com and news15@abc15.com.
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Villager
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Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 04:35 am |
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I am very sorry for your loss as a fellow Villages resident, this is a big concern. A few months back another villager, had her dog hit by a truck, and he did not even stop. Pet owners beware.
I am even more interested in your statement that the Sherriff's Office was not interested in filing a report. Is this accurate?
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heychurchie
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 10:47 pm |
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Yes CottonwoodZonie, that is exactly what I said to the Sheriff's dpt when they weren't to concerned with creating a report.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 11:32 pm by heychurchie
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QCVillager
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 10:28 pm |
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2 cents wrote: QCvillager, is today tuesday?
2
oh, i didn't see that part.
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CottonwoodZonie
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 10:18 pm |
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| What is really scary . . . .A very high percentage of serial killers were animal killers first. They have no place to go but down!
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2 cents
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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QCvillager, is today tuesday?
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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Mr. heychurchie, I am sorry as well. Obviously Lexy was a very loved member of your family. I fully understand and, if I may, share your sadness. My thoughts are with you.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:25 pm |
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i am so sorry.
12yr olds would typically be in middle school and as you may have seen, classes at QCMS were cancelled this morning because of a water main break outside the school caused by a crew working on Queen Creek Rd improvements.
April 10, 2008
Water main break closes QC middle school
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/113476
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:29 pm by QCVillager
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heychurchie
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Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:16 pm |
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Early Tuesday morning while our neighborhood (Villages at Queen Creek) middle schoolers were awaiting their school bus to arrive, three 12 year old boys killed my cat in our park with shovels. My baby girl (affectionately known as Lexy) was an inside cat and very rarely wandered outside of our yard. It just so happens I dropped my wife and our two young children off at the airport very early that Tuesday morning to see family while I continue to work the rest of the week. Our little girl must have been brave enough to get out of the doggy door, only to find a cruel end to her life by three heartless young men. My neighbor caught them on camera by her lifeless body holding shovels, the Maricopa Sheriffs office has a report filed and stated they will be taking action. This is something that our local news needs to share with the public, to warn those with pets as well as warn those young people who participate in such things that there are serious consequences and this will not be tolerated. What is happening to our youth? If they are doing things like this in daylight in front of others, I can't imagine what they are doing in the dark when no one can see them.
Heartbroken in Queen Creek
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 11:33 pm by heychurchie
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