| Author | Post |
|---|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 03:31 am |
|
| What exactly is Banner building in the first phase that will cost $128 million? A 24 bed hospital sure doesn't cost that much to build alone.
|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 03:30 am |
|
April 28, 2008 - 9:43PM
Will hospital end up in Q.C. or Pinal County?
Jason Massad, Tribune
So, which is better to build in, Queen Creek or Pinal County? Banner Health executives have been advancing the question in recent weeks as they stare down Pinal County on development fees they say are too expensive to build Banner Ironwood Medical Center.
Banner asks Q.C. to annex land for hospital
But annexing into Queen Creek and building there would be costly because of construction sales taxes, which are not applicable in the county.
Banner now seems to be splitting the difference. The company plans to build the first phase of the hospital - at an estimated cost of $128 million - in Pinal County.
Successive phases of an eventual 500-bed medical facility could be built in Queen Creek and could attract tax incentives or other lures - something the county is not flexible on.
The project is initially planned as a 24-bed hospital with emergency rooms, four surgery suites for inpatient and outpatient services, the capacity for medical imaging and radiology, and enough extra space to quickly build more room in the hospital as a booming population in northeast Pinal County grows.
Banner started work Monday - basic preparations for the site - to keep the first phase of the project on schedule, hospital spokeswoman Susan Gordon said.
"This has been our schedule for a while, and we're just staying with our construction schedule," she said.
Banner representatives recently discussed annexing the site into Queen Creek. Because of construction sales taxes in Queen Creek, the total cost to the hospital by the town could be $14.5 million. Building the entire facility in Pinal County, where there are no construction taxes, is estimated at $11.5 million.
Ken Buchanan, an assistant county manager for Pinal County, said the hospital could be jumping the gun a bit.
Banner ostensibly has enough development credits to build the first phase without owing Pinal County anything in development fees. The hospital has paid for road improvements that would serve the hospital.
Although the site has preliminary approval, the Pinal County Board of Supervisors has yet to give final approval to the credit agreement for the fees and the technical specifications of the site, Buchanan said.
"They are grading at risk," he said. "They are risking having to change their plans if something is amiss."
Buchanan said that the credit agreement and the hospital's final site-plan approval are tied to the permits needed to operate the facility.
Banner's play, however, could be to build just the hospital in Pinal County, where the impact fees for the actual medical facility are relatively low, and then build support facilities in Queen Creek, according to county officials.
The medical office space for physicians is $17.47 per square foot in Pinal County, compared with $3.18 per square foot at Banner Gateway in Gilbert. And Queen Creek's impact fees are much lower than Pinal County's. The first phase of the hospital's plans include no medical office buildings.
A large parcel of property owned by Vestar, slated for commercial development, separates the Banner facility from Queen Creek. The parcel must physically connect to Queen Creek for the town to annex the hospital.
According to a town document, the town could officially annex the Vestar property in December and subsequently annex the hospital.
|
Bambi
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2260 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 06:22 pm |
|
Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote: Perhaps I should have said, Banner is moving forward despite other potential users in the area. I do not have an update on CHW and their plans.
This is a very good deal for QC right now. It will not only bring us the hospital but also a Vestar property and the Fry's as well. So there will be both sales and property tax from the users. It has no real impact other than development fees for Pinal as they will continue to get their share of county sales and property taxes. As far as the hospital goes, they want to be in QC as opposed to UPC, they were very clear about wanting to be in a municipal service area.
That last sentence right there is the key to why we need to become a city here in the San Tans. They (the hospital) don't want to be in a County service area......they want a municipal service area. That is the same answer I get from other revenue producing entities wanting to locate in the area. And they are willing to pay $4million dollars more for that.
That statement should assist the people in northern Pinal to understand and know why we should become a municipality....to accomodate revenue producing entities who seek municipalities only....they are not seeking other forms of government. They know and understand the benefits of locating in a city. So, to stand by and bless Q.C.'s positive outcome and benefit for their townspeople is difficult for me, as it should be us receiving the blessings.......but I admire them for their courage to bring in the Hospital and the related commercial....although that move has nothing to do with the "greater good" in my mind, unless you are saying for the greater good of the Q.C. residents. That is just smart business practices by a smart town council and staff, on behalf of their citizens, to acquire more revenue for their town, to pay off their debts, and possibly hire back those they laid off. The greater good can be served by either entity.
How many years did Pinal amortorize out to come up with the amount of the impact fee to cover the infrastructure costs and what is the payback timeline? What's your (Q.C.'s)payback timeline on your estimated infrastructure costs covered by the fees?
|
Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 108 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 05:45 pm |
|
Perhaps I should have said, Banner is moving forward despite other potential users in the area. I do not have an update on CHW and their plans.
This is a very good deal for QC right now. It will not only bring us the hospital but also a Vestar property and the Fry's as well. So there will be both sales and property tax from the users. It has no real impact other than development fees for Pinal as they will continue to get their share of county sales and property taxes. As far as the hospital goes, they want to be in QC as opposed to UPC, they were very clear about wanting to be in a municipal service area.
|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 04:58 pm |
|
Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote: Banner is the only game in Town and the hospital will be constructed.
What happened to Catholic Healthcare West's planned hospital?
|
Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 108 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 04:50 pm |
|
| I'll just put it out there for you. There is no negotiating on development fees in the manner in which you are all referring. It is against the law. Now, other incentives, similar to what was offered to Vestar could potentially happen (assuming they are still allowed under state law by that time). The bottom line is this, Banner is developing it's first phase in Pinal, I spoke with their representatives at the meeting. I am sure they will begin to lobby the "new" council (heads up Jeff and Craig) for incentives. But, in the mean time, the bottom line is that QC's development fees are less than Pinal's and as a result it is cheaper for them to develop here. They have already committed to the space, so there is very little incentive to give away very much. We need to hold the line as much as possible with respect to incentives and use them sparingly when they will be meaningful and help to attract employers and businesses that would otherwise locate elsewhere. Banner is the only game in Town and the hospital will be constructed.
|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 04:44 pm |
|
The recommendation for both entities to hold fast on their fees will likely cause the Hospital construction to be further delayed, or possibly canceled. The greater good in my opinion is to help residents in the area get access to quality medical care as soon as possible, rather than hold it up in an effort to extort unreasonable fees from the Hospital.
By the way, if the bill that is currently going through the state is approved, impact fee increases won't take effect until 2 years after their approval. Think about it, you start planning a multi-million dollar hospital or other project, only to find out that the municipality jacked up the impact fees on you during the process. How can a developer accurately budget for a successful project when municipalities unscrupulously crank fees at their convenience? The fees are also not tied to true costs; they are a fraud and just another way to extort revenue from developers and ultimately from the end users of the project. That's my take anyway. Town: let's cut them a deal and get dirt turning.
|
bobdotson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 20 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 04:18 pm |
|
'CrimeFighter', the only crime here is in not knowing the man you attempt to discredit. But no foul.
First, a little homework with your Town leaders will show that although I do in fact reside in the San Tan Foothills (the Rurals) in Unincorporated Northern Pinal County, which also happens to be in the Town of Queen Creek Planning Area, it is well known that I have long sought to see my neighborhood annex to Queen Creek. I am, and always will be a friend of Queen Creek. As such I often try to offer constructive thoughts to the Town officials on a varity of subjects. Those that know me, know that I always come down on the side of 'community' and the larger public good, including having spent most of my adult life in public service.
As for Pinal County, I also advised our County Board of Supervisors to hold fast on the County Impact fees. Regardless of which political entity that Banner will be under, the concerns are the same. Understanding the big picture, and encoraging the citizens to insist on transparancy, and accountability of our elected representitives is what keeps our republic strong.
Discredit me, you did not, but challange your Town leadership you should!
Respectfully,
Bob Dotson
San Tan Foothills (UNPC)
|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 03:55 pm |
|
| Sorry to discredit you Bob, but why should the Town of Queen Creek listen to a pinal resident's recommendation not to negotiate on impact fees? So Pinal can collect impact fees for their benefit? I'm afraid you have a vested interest in the Hospital staying in the County. The Town should cut a better deal to the Hospital, which shouldn't be hard given the outrageous impact fees assessed by Pinal. This will bring in a ton of money for the town, since it won't just be the Hospital coming to town, but also the accompanying medical office buildings.
|
bobdotson
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 20 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 20th, 2008 03:12 pm |
|
Given the town's current fiscal pressures, and with a certainty of even greater fiscal challenges ahead, I would caution the citizen's of QC to stand fast on both your town's impact fees for Banner, and for the construction sales tax rate, and to not 'give away the farm' by allowing your town council to negotiate the burden to the town's tax payers.
I would also urge the citizens to call for a study of the 'real' impact costs with the Banner deal to the town before approving annexation. We should be asking why Banner would be willing to take on at least $4.5 million in greater costs with the annexation? Also, a hospital really needs a medical district plan, and that planning should be accomplished before annexation.
Banner is a non-profit (http://www.bannerhealth.com/About+Us/Our+Nonprofit+Mission/_Our+Nonprofit+Mission.htm) and as such, on the surface, containing costs with the Pinal County deal to the outsider appears to be a no brainer.
I would also like to point out to both Town and County residents, that Banner coming to our community is good thing regardless if the facility is in the Town or in the County. The hospital creates a synergy of well paying job creation, and attracts an affluent population to reside near it. In the long term, the related property taxes, and sales taxes will help improve our community. But it is also crucial we understand and properly manage all related impacts.
Bob Dotson
San Tan Foothills (UNPC)
|
starleen
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Queen Creek |
| Posts: | 139 |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:48 am |
|
CrimeFighter wrote: April 14, 2008 - 9:05PM
Banner asks Q.C. to annex land for hospital
Sarah J. Boggan, Tribune
Queen Creek Mayor Art Sanders said he supports having Banner Ironwood Medical Center in town.
"We definitely need two or three hospitals in this area," he said. "The northwest part of Pinal County is really hurting for anything close, and I would love to have a hospital in our community."
Mayor Sanders makes it sound like annexation will make the hospital closer to town - the hospital will be "in the community" regardless of whether it is annexed or remains under Pinal County jurisdiction. Weird. Maybe taken out of context by the journalist?
|
Bambi
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2260 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 12:20 am |
|
What the heck? Why the passive attitude? Why didn't Sandie fight to keep it? why not negotiate at this stage, since you guys are wanting more money, with your construction sales tax? $14 million against $11.5 million? We need to fight to keep our revenue in Pinal. Where are the gloves?
Pinal shouldn't be saying what's best for Banner? It's what's best for Pinal County, which are the people.
|
CrimeFighter
Member
| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 575 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 02:46 am |
|
April 14, 2008 - 9:05PM
Banner asks Q.C. to annex land for hospital
Sarah J. Boggan, Tribune
Banner Health officials have asked Queen Creek to annex land planned for a hospital to avoid paying high impact fees to Pinal County and to help attract physicians. The Town Council is scheduled to take up the request at its meeting Wednesday.
The 80-acre property for a medical campus is currently in unincorporated Pinal County, where developers see the highest impact fees in the East Valley.
Banner Health spokesman Bill Byron said the first phase of the planned hospital at the southwest corner of Combs and Gantzel roads is moving forward as planned with completion targeted for early 2010. But, he said, the company wants to annex into Queen Creek to improve chances for lower impact fees on future phases.
Those future phases include offices for doctors who staff the hospital. The higher impact fees factor into higher lease rates for those physicians, Byron said.
"Our concern is that it could have a negative impact in terms of physicians coming to the area to establish their practices," he said. "You can't operate a hospital without physicians."
Byron said communities across the Valley compete for physicians, who locate in places that are favorable for their practices.
"If we somehow put ourselves from the get-go where we can't be as competitive, that could hurt the hospital and access to medical services in the area," he said. "Ultimately the long-term success of this project depends of having a sufficient amount of physicians in the area."
Banner expects to pay about $11.5 million in impact fees for its four-phase project in Pinal County, Byron said.
"Banner is nonprofit, but we can build large-scale projects and certainly we can deal with impact fees," he said. "We still think they need to be lower."
Queen Creek's estimate on impact fees for Banner's four phases, including the hospital, would be about $4.5 million. But construction sales tax imposed by Queen Creek is estimated at $10 million, town officials said. Pinal County does not impose a construction sales tax.
"We're at very early stages in these discussions with Queen Creek," Byron said about the cost estimates. "In the meantime, we're fully engaged in working with Pinal County and anticipate we will throughout the lifetime of the project."
Pinal County Supervisor Sandie Smith said the county is helping Banner determine what is best for the hospital. "We're fine looking into which way is better for them because they're still in the same area and delivering the same services," she said.
Because Banner's site is not contiguous to Queen Creek's town limits and state law requires contiguity for annexation, the town would need a Vestar Development Co. site north of the Banner site to annex as well, Town Manager John Kross said.
"We already have a pre-annexation agreement with Vestar, but we need to find out if they're agreeable to annex sooner rather than later."
Kross said the town would also look at annexing a shopping center that includes a Fry's grocery store. None of the properties would include housing developments, he said.
Over the next 20 years the annexations could mean $15 million for the town in sales tax, development fees, building permit fees and property tax revenues.
Kross said the quickest annexation can take 90 days, but with several property owners needing to participate, the proposal could take six months or longer.
Queen Creek Mayor Art Sanders said he supports having Banner Ironwood Medical Center in town.
"We definitely need two or three hospitals in this area," he said. "The northwest part of Pinal County is really hurting for anything close, and I would love to have a hospital in our community."
Depending on various population estimates, there are between 50,000 and 70,000 people in the hospital's planned service area and will be even more when the hospital is expected to open in early 2010.
Banner plans to open a tower with 24 beds and then phase in more beds with growth. The facility is designed to parallel area growth and community need with more than 600 beds planned for the future and will include emergency room services, a radiology department and an electronic medical records system.
The hospital is expected to employ as many as 300 people.
|
Current time is 08:29 pm | |
|
|
|