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CrimeFighter
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| Joined: | Sat Feb 10th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 575 |
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Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 02:22 am |
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Starleen is spot on. Nobody can expect a location that is near major roadways not to eventually develop with commercial; it's the highest and best use for those type of sites. STF has had their noise level tested and it is within required standards. People are bitching about a legitimate business that did nothing but apply for and receive a zone change. It was none of Queen Creek's business anyway, since they are in the county.
Here's another way to look at it: what benefit would a residential use be to any of us in that location? None. Fortunately instead we all can enjoy the cool atmosphere, food, and dancing. Plus it has the added benefit of attracting people who like country music to the area, rather than the dirty hippie rabble that shows up for Edgefest or the like.
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starleen
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Queen Creek |
| Posts: | 139 |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 07:46 pm |
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QCVillager wrote: i would be as upset as anyone if i lived in "the rurals" for years with dark skies and peace and quiet and in one bad decision some planning board could take it all away from me. this is precisely what has happened in this instance. it isn't about dancing, it isn't about someone's right to earn a living. it isn't about alcohol sales, it isn't about spoiling someone's fun. it is simply about one land use being incompatible with another. it is simply about one group of neighbors living a nice quiet rural lifestyle for YEARS and then Pinal County allowing a use that would prove to be completely disruptive to that lifestyle. in the end, the timeline on this fiasco is crucial. Rurals were there for many years before STF.
20 years ago my sister and her husband moved to the Country Mini-Farms near Ironwood and Ocotillo. The area was surrounded by farm land and orchards and they loved the peace and quiet. Today, their neighborhood is hemmed in by high density housing and shopping areas. They can hear the traffic noise from Ironwood, and they have "shortcutters" flying down their neighborhood streets.
However, they realize that Ironwood and Ocotillo are major arteries for the area. It is not unreasonable to expect development in this area, and many people in the Mini-Farms are content to put up with some noise and congestion and still enjoy their properties (and the new nearby conveniences). My sister and her husband prefer peace and quiet - so, as they near retirement they are planning to MOVE to another quiet area (near Hereford).
What makes BLC and the "rurals" so special that they can demand to preserve their neighborhood as a sacred sanctuary in the middle of a growing and progressing community, one that needs medical services, libraries, and retail? They live near the juncture of two main arteries, Hunt and Ellsworth, and commercial development is a given for any such crossroads. So it is at the base of a pretty hill, so what? (I'm from Colorado, I have trouble calling those "mountains.")
Neighborhoods evolve. They need to adjust or move.
Last edited on Thu May 1st, 2008 07:47 pm by starleen
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FAIRNSQUARE
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 07:15 pm |
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You make a valid point. And no, I was not here at that time. I meant no harm with my comment.
So is it really the dark skies they want back? You yourself say the noise does not exceed the limits of the permitted decibel levels. So what is the nuisance? The lights? Or the western music? Or the smell of marshmallows roasting?
I just don't understand.
Correct me if I am wrong, but prior to zoning an area for commerical or residential planning, meetings are held. Did any of the people who've lived in the "rurals" attend the meeting? How many opposed or offered their feedback? I am not trying to be a smarty, I just don't know - I am NOT an AZ native, so I may just be reading between the lines of the articles I read. All I read is people don't want the noise.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 03:02 pm |
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FAIRNSQUARE wrote: I personally have never been to this place but did read alot about the issues with the dancing and all.
It would not bother me - I don't know why people/police/county were so quick to end the fun that appears to take place there.
I am happy for the regulars of this place that a Judge ruled in favor of a pretty popular restaurant.
FairNSquare and Crimefighter - were either of you around when the rezoning was in front of Pinal County ? there is a long history here... and it starts with the neighbors who are directly adjacent to STF. they were there for YEARS prior to STF. granted... Pinal County messed it up and certainly made fools of themselves by trying to reign their mistakes in by the attempt to ban dancing. but i say again... those neighbors were there for YEARS before STF and the light and noise (even if it doesn't violate the Counties' noise decibel levels) are out of character for the area. STF should not have been allowed to build an outdoor theater/stage/bandstand, whatever you want to call it.
the County made a HUGE mistake in allowing STF to be built there. Town of Queen Creek recognized it at the time and sent letters to Pinal County highlighting the incompatibility of the uses.
i would be as upset as anyone if i lived in "the rurals" for years with dark skies and peace and quiet and in one bad decision some planning board could take it all away from me. this is precisely what has happened in this instance. it isn't about dancing, it isn't about someone's right to earn a living. it isn't about alcohol sales, it isn't about spoiling someone's fun. it is simply about one land use being incompatible with another. it is simply about one group of neighbors living a nice quiet rural lifestyle for YEARS and then Pinal County allowing a use that would prove to be completely disruptive to that lifestyle. in the end, the timeline on this fiasco is crucial. Rurals were there for many years before STF.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:50 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote: San Tan Flat is an awesome restaurant with outdoor firepits and great live music (typically western). Kids love the place, since they can roast marshmallows, enjoy the open air, and play and dance around with the other throngs of kids as the band plays. The families clear out around 10pm and an older crowd comes in, so this place caters to everyone. Pinal County has been harassing this legitimate business for years. Now, finally, a judge has ruled that people can dance in peace. Chalk up one more victory for freedom. Everyone be sure to go cut a rug in celebration.
while the County handled this entire matter incorrectly and inappropriately and it was NEVER truly about dancing.
so... now we STILL have a problem. STF has apparently prevailed on the dancing issue... but the problem of the noise... that is to say the REAL problem of the disturbance to neighbors who were there way before STF and used to have dark and quiet at night... and who had assurances (by their own accord and from records from the meetings) from Dale Bell to operate the place so as to minimalize impact to surrounding properties... well, that problem continues.
Town of Queen Creek sent letters to Pinal County on the incompatible nature of the uses... but alas, tragically so, those letters went entirely unheeded.
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FAIRNSQUARE
Member
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 04:05 am |
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I personally have never been to this place but did read alot about the issues with the dancing and all.
It would not bother me - I don't know why people/police/county were so quick to end the fun that appears to take place there.
I am happy for the regulars of this place that a Judge ruled in favor of a pretty popular restaurant.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:23 am |
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San Tan Flat is an awesome restaurant with outdoor firepits and great live music (typically western). Kids love the place, since they can roast marshmallows, enjoy the open air, and play and dance around with the other throngs of kids as the band plays. The families clear out around 10pm and an older crowd comes in, so this place caters to everyone. Pinal County has been harassing this legitimate business for years. Now, finally, a judge has ruled that people can dance in peace. Chalk up one more victory for freedom. Everyone be sure to go cut a rug in celebration.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:17 am |
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April 30, 2008 - 4:23PM
Judge OKs San Tan Flat dancing
Sarah J. Boggan, Tribune
A Pinal County judge has ruled that the San Tan Flat Steakhouse is not an illegal dance hall.
Judge William O’Neil said that the open-air steakhouse does not morph into a dance hall everytime someone moves on a concrete slab in a middle of the restaurant’s courtyard.
The Pinal County Board of Supervisors and a county hearings officer found Bell in violation of a 1960s dance hall ordinance.
The ruling Wednesday overturned their decision.
"You can’t restrict a person’s use of their property," O’Neil said. "This is not an enterprise for dance."
Deputy County Attorney Seymour Gruber argued that alcohol sales, noise, and nuisance to neighbors should restrict what goes on at San Tan Flat but failed to make a clear argument about what would make the restaurant a dance hall.
O’Neil said if those issues were a concern the board of supervisors should have taken action sooner, such as not approving the restaurant’s rezoning.
"I’m very pleased that the judge found that San Tan Flat is a food and beverage operation," Bell said. "Common sense has prevailed."
County spokeswoman Heather Murphy said she was surprised the judge ruled immediately and was glad to have a clear interpretation of the ordinance.
Opponents of San Tan Flat who attended the hearing would not comment on the ruling.
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