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Grey Tiger
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 03:28 am |
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Scott Pasternak with R.W. Beck said a town contract for garbage collection would cost residents less than what it costs residents living in an HOA - providing for once weekly curbside garbage collection and once weekly curbside recycling collection. Pasternak said startup costs would include the purchase of trash and recycling containers at $825,000 and an employee to oversee the program at just under $70,000 a year.
The above is from a story in the EV Trib:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/115357
* Cutting service from twice a week to once a week would obviously cost less, whether or not the HOA, the town, or any other entity were involved.
* That $70K employee is pure overhead.
* Why can't the garbage company provide the containers, since they already own them and we're using them?
Trying to find the benefit in all this.
If the town wants to provide a self-sustaining recycling program, that's great! But if what's presented in the EV Trib article is the deal before us, and the only "benefit" is recycling, then I'll pass. I'll take the money I save by not "nationalizing" garbage service, and buy some carbon offsets from Al Gore in order to assuage any resultant guilt from not recycling.
Seriously, I don't see an upside to adding a middleman to a system that's working.
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Guy
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 10:42 pm |
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People who believe internet polls also belive in...
The Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
The Clinton Health Plan
'nuff said...
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 05:28 pm |
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Jeff,
You need to put an end to these online "surveys" when you take office. As all of us have discussed previously, they are junk science, they are complete and utter garbage. I find it frightening that the town continues to utilize these things, and apparently present the results to decision makers as though they meant something. Just fire whoever is pushing this at the staff level so they can go back and take a basic high school statistics class that will teach them how to administer a statistically significant survey.
Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2008 05:32 pm by CrimeFighter
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 04:10 pm |
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not to mention that ANYONE - from ANYWHERE can vote. just need an internet connection. so, Buckeye, AJ, again... anyone from anywhere can vote. truly rather rediculous.
imagine if Sierra Club or anyone sees this... they could get huge response to our survey from people all over the State and beyond. people who won't have to pay for what it is they are voting on.
Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2008 04:11 pm by QCVillager
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gsbill
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 03:51 pm |
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| The survey is bogus. I just voted twice. You can make a survey that people can only vote once and make it very difficult for average folks to vote multiple times. My 18 year old kid can help with that if anyone is interested. He doesnt charge that much either as some of you may already know.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 03:00 pm |
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| Thanks for the link to the survey, QCV. My favorite thing about Queen Creek is that they base all of their major financial decisions off non-scientific, easily manipulated online polls that have absolutely no statistical significance whatsoever. I'll be sure to vote no like 500 times to counteract the 2 nut recycle-mongers who are voting yes 10,000 times.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:42 pm |
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I'm going to get off subject for just a moment. Lets talk about roads. QC had some jerk off company put this sealer on our roads in The Villages and others around town. It ruined our road. The job they did stinks. Its uneven. The coverage is not consistent. When it hot the cars rip it up. Kids cant roller blade, roller skate or skateboard on it. Wonder how much that cost? It looks like crap. Our nice new smooth road looks like it been done over 10 times with this stuff they used. IT has degraded the look of our neighborhood. Town officials and the Mayor have been out to see it and all agree, the job stinks. More of our money out the window.
More about roads. Anybody look close at the bridge over the wash on Ellsworth Loop Road? That is the most awful concrete work I have ever seen. It is unexceptable. Who inspects this stuff for us? Wavy, uneven poorly finished job. If I produced work like that I would have been fired. Thats what I did for a living.
QCV...I'm going to watch close. I dont think recyclables take up one full can at our home if separated from trash. The bulk is trash. It seems in The Villages that there is maybe 2 trucks doing the entire place. If QC is concerned about the trips that garbage trucks make on our roads they should prohibit the pass thru traffic each day that equals 10's of thousands of cars and trucks on our roads. The garbage trucks will not speed up the wear on our roads. Thats hogwash and we paid some company in Texas a bundle of cash to tell us that.
Again why not look into making money by recycling. We can do that now w/o a town run EXPENSIVE trash collection program.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:14 pm |
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| gsbill, you probably already know how you will respond to the survey and CF i am sure does also. but there are others that will be shocked by an imminent news story coming out about costs for municipalized programs and it likely might alter the way they respond to the survey.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:11 pm |
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gsbill wrote:
Ok...WM is our company and they are cheap. They come twice per week and my can is full both times. Once per week is not enough.
gsbill - it technically is the same.
you and i both currently get two pickups per week, ie... two cans full. if we were recycling and putting all paper/cardboard, glass, aluminum, plastic, etc... into one can and the other can used strictly for refuse it would still be the same two cans.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 01:54 pm |
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gsbill and Crimefighter - i am very very concerned about the Town going down the path of having Town run trash collection and recycling. trash services are handled just fine thank you very much by the Private Sector - by private collection services that are efficient and don't require a boat-load of extra bureaucracy to get the job done.
the Town has said that one benefit would be that there would be fewer trash collection trucks on our streets since one truck would do one street. so with just one truck on those streets there would be less wear and tear on the street surfaces inside the subdivisions. honestly... here in the Villages and in most of the other subdivisions i have talked to, i find that while there are often times two or even three different options available that the majority end up with ONE service provider because they are the least expensive (with a little help from the HOA negotiating with them to be called the preferred vendor)
it is difficult i am sure to put an actual dollar figure on how much in street maint costs the Town would save by removing one heavy truck from inside the Villages (as an example) subdivision. and i would submit that we would likely see those savings gobbled up rather quickly by the amount of new staff (salaries/benefits) we would need to oversee our own trash collection, or even to oversee a "Master Contract".
another benefit talk about is that the Town would have a recycling program. i can tell you without hesitation that i am very excited to have recycling in the Town. i would like for it to be expanded to collect all types of materials and while i personally don't need for it to be curb-side, i recognize that this would be the best option and result in highest use. that said, it easily could be a task for Chris Clark's HOA congress to organize this and utilize the entire HOA muscle (representing a bunch of households) to negotiate for same. a recycling program could be done many ways... ways that don't involve municipal oversight or intervention.
Gov't always wants to grow. CF points out that we are seeing that in our own Town. i personally don't believe Gov't should grow just for the sake of growing.
not everyone will be surprised by some news coming out in the newspaper in the next couple/few days of costs being much higher for something than was originally agreed to. would we expect that a municipal trash collection or a municipal trash collection "Master Agreement" would be any different ?
there are ways to accomplish the stated goals of this trash collection survey other than MUNICIPALIZING (is that a word ? LOL) (i figured that is what CF was getting at.)
here is the Town Survey... http://www.queencreek.org/Index.aspx?page=521
of course, the questions are all innocuous and the bulk of the respondants will say"hey, that sounds like a good idea" and then Staff and Council will point to the results that say "85% of the people want recycling and would be willing to pay a slight premium for same". the problem is that the TRUE and TOTAL costs will not be known and a low dollar amount will be put out there for Staff, Council and Residents to chew on. but... in the end... it is very LIKELY to be found out that there are considerably higher costs involved, or we potentially could find out later that we didn't factor in the varying needs of the different lifestyles present in TOQC (trash and recycling needs are vastly different at my home than they are for a home in Rancho Jardines for instance) and so there will be additional, EXPENSIVE services needed which will drive up the total costs of the program.
Q.C. council seeks input on garbage collection
Survey will gauge interest in service, schedules, recycling
By SARAH J. BOGGAN TRIBUNE CONTACT WRITER: (480) 898-6574 or sboggan@evtrib.com
Queen Creek’s Town Council wants residents to talk trash with them.
The town is seeking information about interest in a communitywide garbage service and is asking residents to participate in a survey to help the Town Council gauge interest in the service. The town has posted a survey on its Web site www.queencreek.org.
Paper copies of the survey are also available at all town events and meetings through the end of June.
The survey will include questions related to current collection schedules, interest in recycling and preference for the town’s role in negotiating for a townwide contract with a garbage company or service.
In March the Town Council received results of a study on trash service. The study was conducted after the county’s landfill, at Riggs and Hawes roads, closed last year.
The study was conducted by town-hired consultant R.W. Beck and showed that the most cost-effective way to provide townwide service for Queen Creek residents would be for the town to contract with a collection company and provide garbage and recycling cans. Currently, residents and homeowners associations contract with private collection companies on their own.
The study also showed that residents outside of a homeowners association pay the most for garbage collection, about $25 a month. Some communities with homeowners associations contract with garbage collection companies for the entire community at a discount rate and pass that savings onto residents, who pay an average of $14 a month.
Before making a decision some council members recommended surveying residents to see how important the service is to them, particularly when costs are increasing for water, sewer and other town services.
Councilman Jon Wootten said there are pros and cons to the current methods of trash collection in town.
“While we hear a lot of complaints about having to subscribe for trash service and the hassles with that, on the other hand it’s very flexible and the town is not involved,” he said. “Typically that means less flexibility and more control over the vehicles in town and the number of trucks and cans. I would like to see input on that.”
Scott Pasternak with R.W. Beck said a town contract for garbage collection would cost residents less than what it costs residents living in an HOA — providing for once weekly curbside garbage collection and once weekly curbside recycling collection.
Pasternak said startup costs would include the purchase of trash and recycling containers at $825,000 and an employee to oversee the program at just under $70,000 a year.
Queen Creek trash survey
Residents of Queen Creek can take the survey at www.queencreek.org
Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:07 pm by QCVillager
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 01:26 am |
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| Since the Town successfully nationalized fire service and the water company, they figure: why stop? Next they will nationalize trash service, then phone, then they may decide to come to your house and nationalize your lawn. After that they may feel it's necessary for them to nationalize you as a person, since they can do your life better than you can. They will send a government employee to your job for you who will complete your duties, attend the gym in your place, raise your children, and sleep with your wife. Think of how much more orderly everything will be once the Town is in charge.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 11:40 pm |
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QC does another study regarding trash collection and we now have a survey to send in. Here is what they say down at study central...
Unanimous decision following extensive
evaluation process by PTF
Conduct procurement process to secure
Town-wide license agreement
7-year contract period
Once weekly refuse collection
Once weekly curbside recycling collection
Possible periodic brush/bulky collection
Ok...WM is our company and they are cheap. They come twice per week and my can is full both times. Once per week is not enough. I posted up a bit ago about a company that comes and collects your recycled stuff and you(QC) can even MAKE money at it.
They study also notes as a benefit that big containers can be placed at larger properties, like horse properties. WM and other refuse companies do that already. The price of everything is going way up. We read about the towns budget issues..No money. Our town has high debt per capita. Why this now? Makes no sense. Trash collection aint broke..why spend a nickle on studies now? Maybe somebody can help me understand.
http://209.247.187.192/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=2416Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 11:41 pm by gsbill
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