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jrenae
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 06:49 pm |
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You are an artist and mother extroadinaire!
I also have this one (it's my favorite! lol), but won't frame it and hang it up for awhile. I need my kids to be a little older (grown, perhaps? lol) to understand the humor of it and not complertely screw them up! lol And of course we know I can't hang it in my classroom! (if I ever teach college, I will though).
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Bambi
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 05:49 pm |
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Good background information there missy J. Helps our understanding of one another. I appreciate it very much.
The "Scream" and Christ in the same home. You are an artist and mother extroadinaire!
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jrenae
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 03:33 pm |
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I sometimes tune into the BYU channel and see ads for Mormon real estate agents with lines like "we understand you".
As a lifelong LDS member, with lines like that, I say, BLEH! Euw. Euw. Euw. I admit I watch BYU TV for General Conference, some talks and "fireside" specials, but some of those commercials make me laugh. Then again, I challenge the cultural aspect of the church because it's something that people fall into a little too much and I admit it's fun going against the grain! You see it all over the place with all religions and cultures and areas with strong ethnic majorities as well (the movie Big Fat Greek Wedding is a perfect example. There were a lot of things in that movie that LDS people can identify with, and I know we're not the only ones!). I am not a fan of the mini-van, casserole LDS culture, but I'm a believer of the doctrine. Maybe I challenge the culture because it just doesn't fit with the art-freak part of me. For example, I love Munch's "The Scream" for example (google it), but you may find some fundemental religious types (LDS or not) distrubed by it. In fact, I've already had a parent complain that it was part of a lesson I'm currently teaching (I'm just giving that student an alternate assignment because there's nothing wrong with my lesson and my principal backs me up)
But I teach lessons on it and even have a version of it hanging in my den. Maybe my kids will be a little confused in the emphasis on Christ in our home and then "The Scream" in another room  (lol), but I hope they have a well rounded sense of art and culture as well as a strong faith base. KWIM?
And Bambi, while the dating thing with the "only Mormon" thing is obvious, trust me, it doesn't stop there with the LDS/non-LDS divide. My boyfriend in high school (first love, longterm steady, whatever you want to call it) WAS LDS and we got nothing but grief from his parents (and a little from mine) because we were so involved with each other and "too serious" and made our lives hell. We lasted a year, but his parents were partly to blame for our break-up. I was desvested and it took a few years for me to realize that he wasn't good for me anyway. Granted, his parents had a point in our over-involvement, but as far as his parents were concerned, they also took it too far when it was obvious some of their crap was purely societal as well. That left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time. They were a wealthier family and mine was not and it was obvious some of their issue was that they were also snobs. So while those on the non-LDS side see the "stick to your own", it also happens inside LDS circles too with sub-LDS-cliques here and there, and it's unfortunate. I wasn't to blame that I came from a hick "AZ redneck" home (believe me, having my hick jerk and abusive father as my father was not a picnic and it was embarassing), but it bugged his parents.
Maybe that's another reason why I tend to make sure my kids love everyone and use good judgement on a person's character rather their religion or "class" in society, because I also don't want them judging people on whether they have money or not. KWIM?
Last edited on Tue May 6th, 2008 03:45 pm by jrenae
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qclars
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 12:00 am |
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TheBigShow wrote: I do kinda see this as the church basically making it official that they pwned Gilbert.
No more so than they own Los Angeles, Oakland, Fresno, Seattle, London,
Bern (Switzerland) etc. I just makes it more convenient to travel to Gilbert than the few extra miles to Mesa. Besides, the Mesa temple was built 80 years ago and cannot keep up with the numbers of "faithful members" who chose to attend there.
Both Jrenae and Bambi's comments were very appropriate to the "birds of a feather" label given us "Mormons."
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Bambi
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 10:31 pm |
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I grew up in a Mormon town...Mesa....in a Mormon neighborhood...Lehi. My friends were all Mormon. I thought I was Mormon. Whats Mormon mean anyway, I would think? Guess I'm one of them. Then off to Primary I would go.
Then came high school. All changed. The Mormon friends hung out with like Mormon friends....not me anymore. But then, I hung out with my Fundamentalist Church friends, and not them anymore....you gravitate to those like yourself.
But, do not get too attached to the opposite sex, because the Mormon teens are strongly advised to date and marry Mormon. Had some crying daughters that hooked on to Mormon boys in their teens, and were told they could not date anymore, by the boys, as per their parents. Birds of a feather, flock together, no matter what faith you are, you seek out those like yourself. That's just human nature. Staying friends is ok, but anything beyond that is not ok. The faith I had stated the same thing. Marry those who are born again christians only. I didn't, and to hell I was destined.....and here I am today, a believer in myself and my fellow man....no organized religion necessary to experience that great feeling, but great respect to those that do experience it and receive gratification from it thru their faith.
To top it off, my grandmother's a Jew. If you don't think I grew up confused, you have another think coming.
Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 10:33 pm by Bambi
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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It's interesting how this story is met with little fanfare but if they built a mosque, I can only imagine the outrage. As I'm agnostic, I don't care about their temples or anything else to do with the religion, or really any religion for that matter. I do kinda see this as the church basically making it official that they pwned Gilbert.
Jrenae, thank you for explaining the mindest of someone inside the church. When I was a kid, my friend was told by his mom he was no longer allowed to even talk to me because I wasn't LDS and I have to admit, I've been bitter about that for a long time. I have experienced the same thing with LDS women I've dated. So if you look at those examples, it's easy to see how you can get that stereotype of Mormons only associating with other Mormons. I sometimes tune into the BYU channel and see ads for Mormon real estate agents with lines like "we understand you". Those just make me laugh because I can only imagine what the mentality of the person behind that ad is. "Oh don't go to that guy, he'll make sure you live in a Wiccan filled hood"...But I also realize that some people are far more clear minded like yourself and want to simply be nice to others regardless of who they are or where they spend their Sundays. So kudos to you. I wish others could follow your example.
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Bambi
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 09:52 pm |
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Hi there Jace. I think it is a wonderful thing you are doing. I used to be a cub scout leader and I enjoyed every minute of it.
What is expected of the Sponsor?
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jace s
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 07:30 pm |
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I'm what some migt say a huge scouter. I love the boy scout program. It kept me out of trouble growing up and has helped me in my adult life. I enjoy working with youth and seeing how scouting can be a positive part of their lives.
It is a great program to have in the community. Our Varsity Scouts have lended quite a bit of time to the Queenland Manor subdivision in service. There are a lot of service projects/eagle projects going on that help the surrounding community.
I and some friends have been kicking around an idea of having a "traditional" scout troop. This meens that it is not sponsored by the LDS church. It doesn't mean that there won't be LDS boys in the troop. (And JRanae is right, non-LDS boys are allowed in LDS sponsored troops. There are 4 or 5 in mine.)
We are looking at setting up an entire program.
The cub scout program- Tiger Cubs start at age 7 and cub scouting goes through age 10.
Boy scouts starts at age 11 through 18
Varsity scouts starts at age 14 through 18
Venture Scouts starts at age 14 through 20 and allows male and female scouters.
Each of the programs are age appropriate. The Venture is more geared towards High Adventure activites. ie scuba diving, rock climbing, white water rafting, etc.
To start it up we are looking for a sponsor. This could be a company or non profit group...
We also will need volunteers to make the program successful.
Any thoughts?
Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 07:32 pm by jace s
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jrenae
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 04:22 am |
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i really know very little about the LDS faith. i have heard the same whispers that other have... "they stick to their own", "they don't allow their kids to play with non-LDS kids", "they don't allow non-LDS kids into their Boy Scout troops". and in each instance i have simply gone to people of LDS faith that i know and trust and value their opinion to find out what they have to say about such sentiment. (i was raised Catholic and so i know a thing or two about people disparaging another's faith) in most cases i find misunderstandings or simple lack of knowledge to be the basis for the contentions. but at the same time, since i have heard similar grumblings so often, i make sure to perk my ears up and keep keen eye for something that would substantiate the complaints of exclusion. so... i ask... what does this mean ?
Since I tend to be the resident LDS poster (and I know I'm not the only one), I'll address this. Sorry I didn't sooner. it's been nuts at work and I haven't made it to this baord in awhile!
I've heard this complaint before, and then I also hear of non-LDS say, "well, my kids play with LDS kids and there is no issue." So really, it is a mere cultural thing that varies person to person. Sometimes it may swing one way or another way.
I certainly do not exclude my children to only LDS kids. Our next door neighbors are not LDS and as long as my daughter's homework is done and her bed is made, she plays outside with them almost daily and they intermingle with the LDS kids 2 houses down and the non-LDS kids another house down. My daycare lady (who takes care of my kids while I'm at work) is not LDS and I trust her Christian values and I know my kids are in good hands. In fact, an LDS person recommended her to me! My daughter is good friends with my babysitter's son and they are in the same class at school.
I look at the character of the association. The kid can be LDS as the day is long and that doesn't automatically mean it's a good person for my kids to be around.
You're right, Jeff, that a simple lack of knowledge leads to such conclusions. For me (and I can only speak for me), I tend to fall in the middle. I NEED the diversity of those outside my faith. I need friends outside my faith. But just as I need the friends and associations outside my specific LDS faith, there are days where I am happy going to a mid-week activity and just hang with the LDS people. I need that too. At work, for example, when someone was being rude about my religion, I handled it well, but sought comfort later in just venting to a fellow LDS co-worker about it. Does that happen every day (the rudeness about my religion from other professional)? No. It happens infrequently, as a matter of fact. Do I have friends from work that aren't LDS? Yes. Do i have friends at work that are? Yes. And many times we all hang out at the same time (that is, if we're all not busy! But that's another issue.)
I've become quite close recently with a parent of 3 of my students who is Jewish. We share similar artistic interests and tend to have too much fun socializing when we're together when we should be working on ceramic plans (which brought us together to begin with)! The ironic thing is, and we laugh about this - she's a Jew with 5 kids, and I'm the Mormon with only 2! lol
Many times, most of the complaints I hear are cultural ones. That is, issues that aren't the actual doctrinal beliefs of the religion, but of the "people", like your questions for example of kids being allowed to play with other kids. Sure, people have negative things to say about our doctrine, but that's another issue entirely.
Back to the cultural associations, I can attest, growing up, that two of my high school best friends were not LDS (and I went to Gilbert High which was and still is, crawling with Mormons) and their heads were screwed on straighter than quite a few of the LDS kids that I hung out with. It all comes down to character. Can LDS kids have good character? Of course. Can non-LDS kids have good character? Definitely. But just as those kids that can, there are many that can be bad apples no matter what religious values they were brought up with. That's a no-brainer. And anyone that only restricts their kids to playing with someone of a certain religion are being naive and snotty and well, asinine. And just like I have LDS friends and non-LDS friends, there are a couple of LDS people that I had no interest being friends with, just as non-LDS ones. Again, I repeat, it comes down to a person's character and integrity.
Today at church, as a matter of fact, a single woman (she's in her 40s) were complaining about high school-like cliques that fall in some of her single activities and how annoyed she is by it that she thought she graduated from high school a long time ago. That happens a lot with people that share similar interests and that may be a reason why it seems some LDS people are very exclusionary. They see each other at church and church activites, so they become friends and next thing you know, you're only hanging out with the people you go to church with (whether you realize it or not) and from the outside it looks like you only hang with other LDS people. In populations with a lot of LDS people, this can be quite common. Just know it's not taught to be that way. We're to judge our friends and associates based on good character and if they're good people to be around. That certainly doesn't restrict us to just hanging out with those of the same religion. That's why, even though this is a highly populated LDS area, I'm glad I'm not in "Mormon Central" like Utah, where it would be even harder to find that diversity. I know that aside from Utah's great weather climate, I would not do too well there! lol
I know I went on and on. If you have any other questions, let me know (on the baord or not. I'm pretty open either way!). i didn't even check to see if I answered all your questions because I know I went on too long as it is!
"they don't allow non-LDS kids into their Boy Scout troops".
I lied! I'm not done yet! I know for a fact this isn't true. I've helped 2 LDS cub scout troops get their art badge (one troop down in Coolidge and one up here) and 2 boys in the Coolidge troop were non-LDS. I didn't even care or notice, but only knew that because two of the boys were my also students and they volunteered that information (why? I don't know. They're 10 year old boys! lol). I don't know if there are non-LDS boys in the cub scout troop up here, but I didn't recognize all the boys from church, so it's a possibility.
Last edited on Tue May 6th, 2008 03:54 pm by jrenae
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 02:20 pm |
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From Wikipedia (so who knows if it is correct)
Requirements for entering LDS Church temples
An LDS Church manual called Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple explains that Latter-day Saints "do not discuss the temple ordinances outside the temples." Further, the manual states:
"It was never intended that knowledge of these temple ceremonies would be limited to a select few who would be obliged to ensure that others never learn of them. It is quite the opposite, in fact. With great effort the church urges every soul to qualify and prepare for the temple experience."
However, to experience the temple firsthand, one needs to convert to the faith, and then (after a year's membership) obtain a temple recommend to enter. The recommend is obtained from and signed by the member's bishop after passing a one-on-one worthiness interview, in which one's commitment to the gospel is reviewed. The recommend is also signed by the member's stake president after a second one-on-one worthiness interview, and finally by the member themselves. By signing his or her own recommend, the member acknowledges their responsibility to ensure that they remain worthy to hold the recommend. Once issued a recommend remains valid for a period of two years.
A limited-use recommend can be obtained by those who just want to act as proxy in temple baptism and confirmation ceremonies. A member of the church must be twelve years of age (and hold the priesthood if male) and pass a worthiness interview with the member's bishop. Unlike the temple recommend, a limited-use recommend does not require a year's membership nor an interview with a stake president. A limited-use recommend is also not valid for participation in temple ceremonies beyond proxy baptism and confirmation.
To qualify for a temple recommend, one must faithfully affirm a series of questions examining what the church believes are the most important factors indicating one's spiritual worthiness. These questions seek to ensure that the interviewee has a basic belief in key church doctrines, and obeys the most significant church rules, such as the following:
a belief in God the Father, Jesus as the Savior and redeemer of mankind, and the Holy Spirit;
- belief in the role of Jesus as the Savior;
- belief in the Restoration;
- support for the President of the Church and other general authorities and local church leaders;
- obedience to the "Law of Chastity" (strict celibacy outside of a marriage that is legally recognized by the local government, and that is both monogamous and heterosexual);
- refraining from the abuse of family members;
- no affiliation or agreement with polygamists or other people whom the church considers apostates;
- making a good faith effort to attend church meetings and obey other church rules;
- honesty in dealings with others;
- payment of tithing;
- following the church's interpretation of the Word of Wisdom;
- payment of child support (if applicable);
- keeping the solemn oaths one has previously made in the temple;
- wearing the temple garment "night and day"; and
- confession of all serious sins to Church leaders
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:56 pm |
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QCVillager wrote: so... i ask... what does this mean ?
Of the 4,186 members of the Gilbert stake, about 900 currently qualify to enter an LDS temple.
It means that the majority of the members are kids who are too young to qualify; there is an age requirement. Qualified people must also be members of the LDS church for at least one year, not be axe murderers, and be attend weekly church services more often than not.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:27 pm |
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i really know very little about the LDS faith. i have heard the same whispers that other have... "they stick to their own", "they don't allow their kids to play with non-LDS kids", "they don't allow non-LDS kids into their Boy Scout troops". and in each instance i have simply gone to people of LDS faith that i know and trust and value their opinion to find out what they have to say about such sentiment. (i was raised Catholic and so i know a thing or two about people disparaging another's faith)
in most cases i find misunderstandings or simple lack of knowledge to be the basis for the contentions. but at the same time, since i have heard similar grumblings so often, i make sure to perk my ears up and keep keen eye for something that would substantiate the complaints of exclusion.
so... i ask... what does this mean ?
Of the 4,186 members of the Gilbert stake, about 900 currently qualify to enter an LDS temple.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:18 pm |
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Mormons abuzz over temple plans
Church leaders in Salt Lake City have announced proposals to build two new churches in Arizona, including one in Gilbert.
PAGE A4
PLEASANT SURPRISE:
Mormons Curtis and Aimee Keller, left, Laurel and Mark Pugmire and Art Sanders pose in front of an LDS church Friday in Gilbert. THOMAS BOGGAN, TRIBUNE
E.V. Mormons prepare for new temple
Church leaders in Salt Lake City announce plans for 2 more Ariz. sites, including Gilbert
By CHRIS MARKHAM TRIBUNE CONTACT WRITER: (480) 898-6486 or cmarkham@evtrib.com
There’s quite a buzz among the approximately 60,000 Mormons living in Gilbert and Queen Creek, say local officials with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.
Church leaders in Salt Lake City announced plans last week to build two new temples in Arizona, with one near the intersection of Greenfield and Pecos roads in Gilbert.
“It took me by surprise,” said Gilbert stake president Mark Pugmire. “A very pleasant surprise, but definitely a surprise.”
The move will double the number of temples in the state and will ease overcrowding in the 80-yearold temple in Mesa. And while the church has not set a start date for construction, it can’t be soon enough for local Mormons.
“There’s a high concentration of LDS people in the East Valley and there’s a growing concentration in the Gilbert area,” Pugmire said.
Church officials in Utah estimate there are 90,000 church members in Mesa and Gilbert combined.
Pugmire said there are about 40,000 members in Gilbert’s eight stakes and about 20,000 in the five stakes in the Queen Creek area. And church leaders expect membership to expand. But even without that growth, the Mesa temple has been overtaxed in recent years.
“They wouldn’t be building the new temple if there weren’t times the Mesa temple was being overtaxed,” Pugmire said.
Stake member Curtis Keller and his wife Aimee are especially looking forward to the new temple, since it will likely be built within walking distance of their south Gilbert home.
“It will be more popular than a movie theater, I think,” said Curtis Keller, who volunteers at the Mesa temple on Friday nights.
At times, lines to get into the temple are so long that some visitors actually get turned away, Keller said.
While regular Sunday services are held at LDS churches throughout the Valley, sacred Mormon ordinances, or ceremonies such as marriages and baptisms, are performed inside the temples.
“For me, the temple is a refuge from the world,” Aimee Keller said. “We go there to make covenants with the Heavenly Father and we go back to renew that covenant.”
Other ceremonies performed inside the temple include the temple endowment and baptisms for the dead.
“We believe they are sacred and therefore we don’t talk about it outside,” Pugmire said.
When the Kellers lived in Chicago, the nearest temple was about an hour’s drive away. The distance made it difficult to visit the temple as often as they would like.
“Since we moved back to Arizona, it’s been really nice, even with the temple up in Mesa,” Aimee Keller said.
Of the 4,186 members of the Gilbert stake, about 900 currently qualify to enter an LDS temple. And about 700 actually go to the temple, Pugmire said.
The temple will likely be used by LDS members in Queen Creek as well, said Queen Creek Mayor Art Sanders, also a member of the church.
While church officials in Utah have not yet announced the exact site or size of the Gilbert temple, they do expect it to be smaller than the Mesa temple that was built in the early 1920s.
“The smaller temples are less expensive and take less time to build,” Evans said.
The church currently has 134 temples worldwide.
THOMAS BOGGAN, TRIBUNE
SUBMITTED LATEST ADDITION: Above, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Gilbert and Queen Creek, from left, Curtis and Aimee Keller, Laurel and Mark Pugmire and Art Sanders, pose in front of an LDS church in Gilbert. The LDS church announced plans to build a temple in Gilbert that will serve the approximately 60,000 church members in Gilbert and Queen Creek. The temple is shown in an artist’s rendering, right, and will be the third in Arizona, joining the Mesa temple and the Snowflake temple, left.
SUBMITTED
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