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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 108 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 03:54 pm |
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Imavillager,
Sorry I did not respond sooner. Sometimes I just skim the forum.
Lisa
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 108 |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 03:52 pm |
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Just to add a little on the discussion regarding sales tax. Sales tax as opposed to a property tax does NOT require a vote of anyone other than the Mayor and Town Council. The Council MAY at it's discretion send it out to the voters. During my term, I have asked repeatedly that the increases in sales tax be sent to the voters. I was told by staff that it would set a president to send out sales tax for a vote. I was over ruled in every case and there was not support for it on the Council. Staff strongly supports that this is the job of the Council and that the Council was elected to make decisions. I on the other hand feel that when you start talking taxes, people at least should be aware and have an opportunity to express their opinion at the ballot box. The other issue is one of competitive disadvantage. While the amounts are relatively minor, as far as an average purchase, buying a car for instance would result in a much larger amount of tax. This would be evaluated by any potential large sales tax generating entity (like a car dealership), and could result in the business locating elsewhere, where the taxes were not so high.
Now all of this being said, the Town needed each one of these increases to fund the services and programs we have now.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 08:02 pm |
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| i get your concerns about the "special districts" though and how they basically can sidestep the "will of the voters" since they don't actually go out to public vote but instead are only voted on at the Council dais.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 07:53 pm |
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Gang, here is an interesting observation i have...
the newspaper published a story that i copied into this forum showing that TOQC taxpayers are on the hook for MILLIONS of extra dollars (with our purchase of the water company than what was previously reported or that i knew about). that thread has 59 hits so far.
meanwhile... this one... where it will cost an extra $2 in sales tax for a grocery shopper going to our Target store versus going to Target on Power Rd and it gets five times as many hits.
let's do the math... assume for a minute that a household spends $20,000 on retail at TOQC Target in a years time. this means that it would cost you $200 more than if you went to Power Rd Target store that whole time. and it would only be $50 more versus any other area within Town limits.
now compare that to the extra money that the water company will cost us (again as opposed to how much we all thought it would be). it could be as much as $13m or $14m (according to Paul Gardner as quoted in news article). let's assume it won't be that high... let's go right in the middle of that and figure $7m. divide $7m by 24,000 residents and it would cost $291 extra for every man/woman/child in Town. how many men/women/children are in your home ?
there are four in mine... $291 x 4 is $1164 so... i am way more worried about the higher than reported costs of the water acquisition than i am the special district with it's .25% higher tax rate than other areas in Town.
(yes, i realize that the $1164 isn't exactly right - since as time goes by, the number of residents will have increased and so we would divide the overage of the water company purchase by a higher number of residents)
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QCVillager
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 07:37 pm |
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imavillager wrote: So my initial question about "will this tax ever end"? to Lisa never was answered so I guess the answer is no.
I did not realize we had a new special district.
Perhaps you can explain to the readers exactly how special districts work. I once lived in a county with 53 different special districts.
It was horrible and each and everyone of them was just a guise to add more taxes without the "pain" of getting the required % for raising taxes through a ballot initiative.
I hope QC is not taking this road...
we have just the one ID as far as i know. ID001 (Improvement District 001) and it was voted on like 18 mos ago or maybe even longer (i don't recall exactly). i would assume that since we have just the one and that it has been at least 18 mos since it was voted on... that it isn't something running rampant or indicitive of a trend.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 07:34 pm |
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imavillager - Councilmember Coletto-Cohen just called me on my cell phone and asked me to explain and apologize. She didn't see the first post with your question, but did see your latest...apparently on her cell phone - (hmmm, even more technically advanced than i am) but can't actually reply via cell phone.
anyway... she asked me to post that it is "into perpetuity". and to apologize for not seeing/responding the first time.
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imavillager
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 05:26 am |
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So my initial question about "will this tax ever end"? to Lisa never was answered so I guess the answer is no.
I did not realize we had a new special district.
Perhaps you can explain to the readers exactly how special districts work. I once lived in a county with 53 different special districts.
It was horrible and each and everyone of them was just a guise to add more taxes without the "pain" of getting the required % for raising taxes through a ballot initiative.
I hope QC is not taking this road...
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 03:47 am |
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Grey Tiger wrote: It was my understanding that the developers financed some infrastructure, to be paid back from the town's percentage of the existing sales tax. I was good with that. Interesting how more than one of us failed to comprehend that we somehow voted for a sales tax increase limited to two shopping centers.
GT, residents didnt' vote on this. this was part of the ID001 (improvement district #1) that the Town Council voted on like at least 18 months ago.
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Grey Tiger
Member
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 03:39 am |
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It was my understanding that the developers financed some infrastructure, to be paid back from the town's percentage of the existing sales tax. I was good with that. Interesting how more than one of us failed to comprehend that we somehow voted for a sales tax increase limited to two shopping centers.
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starleen
Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Queen Creek |
| Posts: | 139 |
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 09:39 pm |
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote: The additional sales tax collected in the Town Center was part of the agreements with Vestar and Westcor, the major developers.
How could a sales tax agreement be made between the Developers and the Town when it is not the Developers paying the tax - it is the shoppers? I agree with Ima, there should have been a vote. Maybe there was at least disclosure?
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imavillager
Member
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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Lisa:
Does this additional sales tax ever stop or will we always have to pay more tax to shop "downtown"
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 108 |
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 02:31 pm |
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The additional sales tax collected in the Town Center was part of the agreements with Vestar and Westcor, the major developers. The money collected is to be used for downtown improvements. This year, the Budget Committee discussions looked into a possibility of facade improvement local small businesses (as a potential matching program) or a small revolving door lending program for new business start ups and or landscaping the medians that were removed from the ID. (All pending legal approval of course). When we looked at this, it was seen as a way for the large sales tax generators to help improve the area and potentially attract more business downtown.
As a side note, I was in Colorado at a veterinary management conference last year and got a bill from a local restaurant. This exact same thing was called out separately on my receipt and was not part of the aggregate sales tax amount.
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imavillager
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 07:46 pm |
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Black Jack wrote: Now if I’m not mistaken and I'm sure QCV can verify this, when these projects came to be, QC agreed to pay back to the developer a portion of sales taxes collected ...
That may be true but the Town of QC is not doing that, the resdents who shop there are paying it.
I am not really complaining about the tax, just surprised. I don't recall voting for an 8.8% sales tax.
And the fact that if I have 2 stores, one at Cornerstone and one at Indigo Trails ( are their stores there..LOL) I would collect different sales taxes from my customers..
So someone buys something at my Cornerstone store and returns it to my "other store" and I have to refund what they paid, includng taxes I did not collect..,see how confusing it could be ?
Nice discussion on taxes however.
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bobthebuilder
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 11th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 442 |
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 06:00 pm |
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Even 8.5% sounds high. I normally shop near Hunt Hwy anyway since I live there, but I also commute from Tempe every day so I have a pick of stores in the East Valley if I plan ahead. Otherwise the QC location is pretty good for Pinal residents too.
QCVillager makes a good point. Driving to save a couple bucks will probably cost you more in gas these days.
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Black Jack
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 6th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 05:41 pm |
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Now if I’m not mistaken and I'm sure QCV can verify this, when these projects came to be, QC agreed to pay back to the developer a portion of sales taxes collected for a period of time as a way to defray the infrastructure costs to the developer. The extra little bit added is just a way of QC making up for their generosity. Aren’t towns/cities just great? Drive to the Hunt as their sales tax rate is 6.6% the last time I checked.
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imavillager
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 04:14 pm |
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Don't voters have to apprve sales tax? I remember the tax increase for public safety ,I didn't realize a "construction tax" was really a sales tax. And why just those 2 centers? Why not all of Queen Creek?
Just wondering
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 04:07 pm |
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at least with the sales tax - the tax is collected across the board (including from those that don't live in Town limits but that choose to shop here). if we relied entirely on property tax... well, of course you know that would only affect property owners.
Gilbert's total effective Sales Tax is 7.8%
TOQC's total effective Sales Tax is 8.55% (8.8% at QC Marketplace and Cornerstone)
as to going to Hunt Hwy corridor or Gilbert to save 1/2% or 1%... not for me.
if my wife goes to shop for groceries and plans to spend $200... well, i am not sending her to Gilbert to save $2 on that weeks bill. factoring in the extra fuel required means the net savings wouldn't be $2 bucks anyway and even if it was, our time is simply more valuable than the $2.
now... if i was buying large ticket item... say something over $5,000 (1% savings on $5000 is $50) then i am likely to consider buying same product in lower tax rate community. until the extra costs to deliver or freight start eating into that $50
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 03:46 pm |
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It's good for us. Sales tax and property taxes. School taxes all at very high amounts is good for the community. Forget about food costs and gas prices, they dont matter. Cost for water is going up too. We can afford it, dont worry. People will still come and pay VERY HIGH taxes. People will stay and continue to pay VERY HIGH taxes. People are willing to pay more sales tax too. We all have lots of extra money. Didnt you read the study?
Sorry folks. Sarcasm is my happy place.
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imavillager
Member
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Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 03:16 pm |
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I was surprised to find out that if you want to shop in town ( which is what I prefer) you pay 8.8% tax..well let me be more specific, if you want to shop at Target or any store in the Queen Creek Marketplace (Target,Kohls and others) or Cornerstone (Wal*Mart, staples and others). If you want to shop at CVS or Ace hardware or Russ's True Value you pay 8.5%.
I understand the Town approved an additional "Construction Tax" but why are residents required to pay that extra tax? In today's eceonomy it seems as if we will send a lot of shoppers to other area that have less of a tax burden on purchases ( Hunt Highway stores or Power/Ray shops which are in Gilbert). It is easy enough to shop on your way home from work and save a couple of percent in sales tax.
Can anyone explain this?
I have attached the Town pdf file on this ( please note the Town revied this on March 8th .
I appreciate any comments on this!
Attachment: SalesTaxIncreaseNoticeFlyerALLBUSINESSESCOMBINEDRevisedMarch2008.pdf (Downloaded 3 times)
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