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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:59 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
gsbill wrote: It seems you have time to attack your neighbors.
"...you dont get it...
You have no clue...
You guys really dont have a clue...
Thats because you have no clue...
You have no idea...
You are wrong again...
NO you are wrong again. You really have no clue...
...a bunch of BS...
You dont know what you're talking about...
Nope thats not it..wrong again...
You dont know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should give up voting...
...you are a joke...
You dont know what you're talking about
You know nothing..."
You, oh wise and all knowing one, are the attacker. You insult and slam anybody who doesn't agree with your self-admittedly obsessive cause. Then you want to call people out to meet you. What makes you think anyone would want to listen to any more of this garbage? I would rather shove red hot splinters under my fingernails than to hear any more of your insulting and intollerant comments.
You got what you wanted. Revel in your victory, give it a rest, and let those of us who think it was yet another complete waste of very limited resources have our opinion too.
Hey, maybe we should start a petition now to not tear out Ellsworth Loop road just to get a head start on these guys. They might want to turn it into a horsey trail. You know... to make it safer.
I think most of us thought that this median thing was going nowhere because it was so absurd. This is a clear lesson that absurdity can happen if the council gets badgered enough.
Have your opinion...have some facts and info to base it on. I wont let you spew mis information. I defended myself and others while pointing out you were wrong, have no info, and really dont have a clue as to what went on.
If ya need help with the splinters let me know. I had another idea for a different material in a different location for you, but red hot all the same.
Its funny how the attacker is all of a sudden the victim! Hahahaa!
I have offered to meet you and CF..To show you the facts. Why bother when you can get on such a roll with misinformation.
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QCVillager
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:16 pm |
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folks, please have the dialog without using my position on the item. you will recognize that i am but ONE out of seven people who voted on the item. i have already clarified my vote (see below).
i have to respect the process though and now work to support and implement the collective decision of the Council. to that end, i took gsbill up on his offer to meet yesterday and look at a couple of ideas he has (he recognized my concern for plain old blacktop with yellow striping) with respect to "dressing it up a bit" and for perhaps netting a more aesthetic final result. no promises on what is being talked about in that vein, since any idea also has to pass engineering, safety and financial muster before ultimately getting to the full Town Council again.
QCVillager wrote:
now that the vote has been taken, the item has been decided 5-2. i respect the Council's collective decision and will support same.
by way of clairification on the item (i think the news article didn't quite capture my thoughts)... my vote against removing the median this evening was based on a couple of factors...
1) haste. the Town Council voted two weeks ago to have our Transportation Advisory Committee (TAC) which is a RESIDENT committee with Town Staff support, take on the task of researching and investigating options related to access management (including medians) as they relate to Town Center streets. the TAC committee made up of residents, (and with an appointment at this same meeting of Bill Fischback a resident opposed to this particular median) would have looked at all aspects including, Safety, Traffic Counts, Aesthetics, and Costs - to name a few... and then bring back a formal and well thought out recommendation to the Council.
we just voted on that two weeks ago... so i was very much in favor of letting that resident committee put in the time and research to come to the best conclusions rather than have us circumvent that process in a matter of a 20 discussion.
2) aesthetics. the removal of the median last evening nets us with plain blacktop with yellow striping to delineate the center turn lane as a replacement. we hear and we say over and over that we want something a bit better for Queen Creek and to have something that isn't Gilbert - Part II, or a copy of Mesa, Chandler, etc... this plain cross section won't have the level of aesthetics that i am hearing that our residents seek, no tree'd center strip or ornamental boulevard type treatments here.
3) cost. the cost to remove this stretch is estimated to be $115,000. this is a huge chunk of change and with the cost of asphalt actually showing downward trending... there was no advantage from a net cost perspective to doing this now rather than waiting for the formal recommendation from the TAC (which was due in January). $115,000 is a HUGE sum of money when one looks at the economic conditions within the Town.
as we know, we have cut head count at Town Hall, cut salaries of Town Staff by 6% and have moth-balled nearly $25m in capital improvement projects including $8.5m worth of road improvements and widenings (Rittenhouse widening and intersection improvements among them). folks, our Transportation budget for this year already got slashed somewhere between 30-35%. i would submit we don't have $115,000 just sitting around.
4) precedent. the portion of median that the Council approved to be removed last evening is from 203rd, west to the QC Wash. there is a stretch of median from 203rd EAST bound that is quite likely to be the next stretch requested to be removed. the precedent has been established. using the same $75 sq/yd estimate to remove that median and put in same plain blacktop with yellow striped line... we find that that stretch would cost another $135,000 to remove. add both sections together and the Total that this is estimated to cost is actually $250k. again, an absolutely mind boggling number in this economic climate.
i have knowledge of a good number of stores in the Town that are struggling big time (not based on loss of business to any medians, but instead, simply by way of people curtailing their spending). i am greatly concerned about sales tax receipts for the Town and if the businesses i am talking about fold then there will be a negative impact to other nearby stores since as we know... stores cluster to drive business to each other. they are interdependent to that extent.
again... i found myself in the minority of the Council on this item... yet... i don't take it personally. i accept the collective decision by Town Council and support same. my thoughts above are only for clarification and to let the voters know my reasoning for my NAY vote. it is important to me that even if someone doesn't agree with me, i want them to understand my reasoning and how i came to my conclusions.
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:47 pm by QCVillager
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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gsbill wrote: David..This was not my mission or project ..I was one in a group of many. Dont you understand English. I told you that. You are now a liar. Keep going! Its your right to post what you want...Even if its a lie. Be careful...Telling lies to damage a person is something you can be sued for. You really wouldnt be that dumb now would you?
Wow, I missed this one. Now I'm dumb and a liar too. Don't threaten me, Bill unless you intend on backing it up. What, do you and Bambi have this attorney on speed dial or something? You're something else dude.
You are the one that put your name on the forefront of this issue on this forum, Bill, not me. I'm not making this up, man. Look at your dozens upon dozens of posts on the subject.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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GSBill,
David never lied, and the fact that a small handful of people were able to gather a few hundred signatures hardly indicates a groundswell. I'm still waiting for your explanation about how the town designed, engineered, and approved this median project covertly before anyone on council understood what it was. Probably because that isn't how it went down. It was planned and designed years in advance, everybody knew and agreed with it, then once it was actually constructed a few people threw a fit after the fact, council immediately rolled over and said "uncle", and now the taxpayers are footing the bill.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:04 pm |
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gsbill wrote: It seems you have time to attack your neighbors.
"...you dont get it...
You have no clue...
You guys really dont have a clue...
Thats because you have no clue...
You have no idea...
You are wrong again...
NO you are wrong again. You really have no clue...
...a bunch of BS...
You dont know what you're talking about...
Nope thats not it..wrong again...
You dont know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should give up voting...
...you are a joke...
You dont know what you're talking about
You know nothing..."
You, oh wise and all knowing one, are the attacker. You insult and slam anybody who doesn't agree with your self-admittedly obsessive cause. Then you want to call people out to meet you. What makes you think anyone would want to listen to any more of this garbage? I would rather shove red hot splinters under my fingernails than to hear any more of your insulting and intollerant comments.
You got what you wanted. Revel in your victory, give it a rest, and let those of us who think it was yet another complete waste of very limited resources have our opinion too.
Hey, maybe we should start a petition now to not tear out Ellsworth Loop road just to get a head start on these guys. They might want to turn it into a horsey trail. You know... to make it safer.
I think most of us thought that this median thing was going nowhere because it was so absurd. This is a clear lesson that absurdity can happen if the council gets badgered enough.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 09:48 pm |
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All of the Queen Creek tax payers would have been much better off financially and safer if GS had just sat back and been a spectator
Thats not true as I was one in a group of many. Somebody else would have easily filled my small spot and the same results would have come about.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 09:38 pm |
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| David..This was not my mission or project ..I was one in a group of many. Dont you understand English. I told you that. You are now a liar. Keep going! Its your right to post what you want...Even if its a lie. Be careful...Telling lies to damage a person is something you can be sued for. You really wouldnt be that dumb now would you?
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 09:32 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote:
GS, are you really arguing that this median just appeared ready to construct as of July without the knowledge of anyone in a decision making position? Ask ANYONE who has gone through a design and city review of a construction project whether a project can be designed and approved in that time frame. It could never happen that way. If they didn't know about it long before this time period then they are completely out of touch with what staff is doing and shouldn't be in office.
Are you also saying that Jeff Brown is in favor of ripping out the median?
Jeff Brown can speak for himself. Your continued attacks are baseless. You know nothing. Go get some info and get back to us. What you think is not true. Go find out for yourself what happened. A few simple phone calls and emails should do it. If you wish to attack me...make an appointment with the other uninformed, uninvolved poster and we can meet and have a nice chat.
Get out from behind your computer and talk to live people.
Also remember I was one of at least 645 who fought against the raised medians and the process by which they came about. If I didnt post here, which really did no good either way, you wouldnt have a clue about who do what. You would know less than you do now, which would be amazing due to the fact you know zero about this. Can you know less than nothing?
How about that lunch? Ready to man/woman up and come out from behind your keyboard bunker?
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gk
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 09:01 pm |
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Most of of don't have the time for this nonsense. Some of you apparently have lots of free time to harass our council into folding like a cheap suit. We elect officials that are supposed to have a clue.
Translation : What you really are saying is.....I'm too damn lazy to get involved with my community, and if something does not go the way I want it I'll cry and snivel about it!!
That's really what you are saying , is it not?
Expand on that a little more.......you would say...that's why I elect Congressional representatives to represent me. I expect them to listen to their Az constituents and vote accordingly. I'm really pissed about this $850 Billion dollar gift that was given to the really rich, but I was too damn lazy to voice my opinion to the representatives. I voted them in to vote for me.
Same thing......bigger scale....you reap what you sow!
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 08:35 pm |
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gsbill wrote: I didnt waste a nickle of anybody's money. I identified and helped fix a wrong. What have you done lately besides bitch and moan after being a spectator?
All of the Queen Creek tax payers would have been much better off financially and safer if GS had just sat back and been a spectator. Here's a lesson for the kids of America: you can make a difference in your local government, and it can be a negative difference.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 08:32 pm |
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GS, are you really arguing that this median just appeared ready to construct as of July without the knowledge of anyone in a decision making position? Ask ANYONE who has gone through a design and city review of a construction project whether a project can be designed and approved in that time frame. It could never happen that way. If they didn't know about it long before this time period then they are completely out of touch with what staff is doing and shouldn't be in office.
Are you also saying that Jeff Brown is in favor of ripping out the median?
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 08:16 pm |
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gsbill wrote: At this point you are a joke. And you have the nads to lecture me on personal attacks. You dont know what happened or why. You wasted a lot of my money and I'm not happy about it. Simple as that. Maybe I'll see you again at another Pegasus open house.
We might need to charge a cover charge and donate it to the town next time to pay for your next deconstruction project.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:48 pm |
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I know, I know... I am just a moron who knows nothing because I didn't spend countless hours googling statistics to support my misguided opinion
You are wrong yet again and now are not listening...Google really didnt have much to do with anything. The bulk of teh research was found in town documents.
At this point you are a joke. You dont know what happened or why.
There were no misguided opinions here. Only facts and history presented. You are spreading BS and hoping it will stick.
You dont know what you're talking about. Those who know the issue can see that clear as day. You and CF both had a chance to learn and also to fight for the medians. You didnt do either.
Enjoy your sputtering attempt at discrediting me, town staff, our elected officials, your neighbors, local business people and the 645 folks who signed petitions..not to mention the dozens of fine people who worked really hard on our Town Center Plan.
Maybe I'll see you again at another Pegasus open house.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:36 pm |
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gsbill wrote: Jeff only voted to delay the removal. The medians were coming out. Ask Jeff and meet with him and let him tell you to your face about all the info we presented.
You dont know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should give up voting all together as you refuse to get informed and are then going on to leap to foolish conclusions.
Town staff and council worked hard on this issue. Your disrespect of them and the process tells us a lot about you and your character.
Oh, I see. If I don't see the issue the way you do then I shouldn't vote, huh? Maybe you should move to an eastern block country. They think just like you do.
I know, I know... I am just a moron who knows nothing because I didn't spend countless hours googling statistics to support my misguided opinion. Anyone who disagrees with this colossal waste of town resources is just dumb and none of us 'have a clue' or 'know what we're talking about' huh? What a tool.
You are absolutely correct. I disrespect anyone who throws our money away like this. It's just inexcusable and it speaks volumes about the intestinal fortitude of the people that we voted in. I would guess that most of us had faith in our council to see this for what it was. Apparently that faith was misplaced and it seems the whiniest people are placated here. What a joke. This would never fly in a real city.
I can't wait to see the next 'cause' you take up. How much will that cost me? Should I just start burning some cash now?
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:14 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
gk wrote: if you actually knew what you are talking about as far as the safety issue you would have an argument. Unfortunately you don't!
The method that was used to reach their conclusions on safety are very serious flawed. It was an improper application of statistics. I won't go into details again as that has already been discussed, but the bottom line about the conclusion about the safety issue came about due to a poorly applied statistical analysis.
You are talking from emotions and what you assume to be true, but the proper application of the data proves otherwise.
And again, the day was won by those of determination, of those who understood and stood firm and strong in their convictions. If you felt so strongly that it was the proper way to go, you still cannot mitigate the fact that you were uninvolved'
Complaining after the fact, is of no value!!
Most of of don't have the time for this nonsense. Some of you apparently have lots of free time to harass our council into folding like a cheap suit. We elect officials that are supposed to have a clue. I'm with CF and my votes will be quit a bit different next time around. It seems Jeff is one of the only council members with a mind AND a spine.
Jeff only voted to delay the removal. The medians were coming out. Ask Jeff and meet with him and let him tell you to your face about all the info we presented.
You dont know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should give up voting all together as you refuse to get informed and are then going on to leap to foolish conclusions.
Town staff and council worked hard on this issue. Your disrespect of them and the process tells us a lot about you and your character.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:08 pm |
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gk wrote: if you actually knew what you are talking about as far as the safety issue you would have an argument. Unfortunately you don't!
The method that was used to reach their conclusions on safety are very serious flawed. It was an improper application of statistics. I won't go into details again as that has already been discussed, but the bottom line about the conclusion about the safety issue came about due to a poorly applied statistical analysis.
You are talking from emotions and what you assume to be true, but the proper application of the data proves otherwise.
And again, the day was won by those of determination, of those who understood and stood firm and strong in their convictions. If you felt so strongly that it was the proper way to go, you still cannot mitigate the fact that you were uninvolved'
Complaining after the fact, is of no value!!
Most of of don't have the time for this nonsense. Some of you apparently have lots of free time to harass our council into folding like a cheap suit. We elect officials that are supposed to have a clue. I'm with CF and my votes will be quit a bit different next time around. It seems Jeff is one of the only council members with a mind AND a spine.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:06 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
gsbill wrote: it's an attack on the frivolous cause
Only in your opinion. Lets watch and see what the next frivolous cause will be.
Great, so you're not done wasting our money yet, huh?
I didnt waste a nickle of anybody's money. I identified and helped fix a wrong. What have you done lately besides bitch and moan after being a spectator?
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:02 pm |
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Krash wrote: They should recoup the cost of ripping it out in a few years by not having to pay for the upkeep of the median.
What kind of math is that? Good lord. Gravel doesn't require a lot of upkeep.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:01 pm |
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If this Shane Dille is the only other person besides me raised the fact that this discussion should have happened before construction,
Nope thats not it..wrong again...You two used the phrase suicide lane.
How can you say that council only knew about this in July?
Thats easy..It took reading 10 years worth of documents and then asking the council members if they ever recalled for for raised medians or even discussing raised medians.
How can you question everything when you know nothing and refused to let yourself learn anything. You continue to have no clue what so ever. This is becoming fun. Its like playing poker and I can see all your cards and you cant see mine. Thanks for the entertainment!
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:00 pm |
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gsbill wrote: it's an attack on the frivolous cause
Only in your opinion. Lets watch and see what the next frivolous cause will be.
Great, so you're not done wasting our money yet, huh?
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clu
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 05:37 pm |
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QCVillager wrote: One complaint Barnes said he heard over and over was that the median blocked left turn access to a nearby medical clinic, which could pose a danger for people trying to make a U-turn to get treatment while injured.
"I know we've pushed safety," Barnes said. "And having broken several bones of my own, I know that would be an issue, making a U-turn into a doctor's office."
This is how politicians scare people into voting a certain way!!!!
WHAT "MEDICAL CENTER" TREATS "BROKEN BONES" THAT IS BEING BLOCKED BY THE MEDIAN????
It's a physial therapist office!
Are these politicians so out of touch they don't even know what they're voting for and why and who is affected?
Barnes will never get my vote after this blatant, purposeful, mispresentation of that facts.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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gsbill wrote: You made a comment that only one other person has made in over 2 months which is sort of unique to this issue. Do you know Shane Dille?
If this Shane Dille is the only other person besides me raised the fact that this discussion should have happened before construction, then I have even more concerns about what is going on in town. How can you say that council only knew about this in July? You can't design, engineer and approve a median improvement for a road in that short of a time period. That just means that they aren't doing their jobs and are pleading ignorance to something that has been in the works for at least 6 months before construction starts. Probably more like years.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 04:36 pm |
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.I elected people so I wouldn't have to waste my time discrediting obviously flawed evidence.
You dont know what you're talking about. The evidence was mostly town documents. What do you know about any evidence? You flat out refused to review any of it yet feel you can discredit it now. Come on now!
It seems you are now the CF who publicly stated they like to post inflammatory remarks on the internet as a hobby.
Why didn't you get involved fighting this median before it was built?
Nobody knew it was coming. Many council members didnt know until July 16th or so. Thats the broken process part we have worked so hard to identify. Council has taken steps to avoid this happening again.
Any other concerns from the sidelines you'd like to share?
You made a comment that only one other person has made in over 2 months which is sort of unique to this issue. Do you know Shane Dille?
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 03:50 pm |
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Bill, it isn't my job to get involved in every item of minutia that comes before council.I elected people so I wouldn't have to waste my time discrediting obviously flawed evidence. Now it's become clear that the only person who was worth my vote was Jeff Brown.
Why didn't you get involved fighting this median before it was built? Why didn't the people affected by it get involved when it was nothing more than a drawing on paper over the last few years? Seriously, this is unforgivable to actually build a publicly funded project like this then rip it out of the ground.
Let's start the tax monkey statue fund. The great thing is that it can be applied to so many projects already that it will become an instant hit.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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Hey CF..What would you think of a news reporter who never got any of the facts about their stories? Who never talked to anyone involved. Who never came to a meeting or followed along and then went ahead and made uninformed critical reports. Would you rely on that person for accurate reports and information? How about if that reporter was offered many times over the facts and history on a story and they refused? Yet went on to report without the history and facts? Would you rely on that person for accurate reports and information?
What would you think of a reporter that attacked the people involved in an issue after the fact when they did nothing to get any facts relative to that issue?
What do you think? Is that person a good reporter? A good critic?
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 03:39 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote:
Are you also pooling your money to pay the hospital bills for the next person injured or killed as a result of a suicide lane?
This is unbelievable. Years of planning, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and actual construction ripped out of the ground because a few people bitch? Where were they in the design phase before it was going to cost us a hundreds of thousands? Any private sector employee who costs his company hundreds of thousands of dollars would get canned. Why should this colossal screwup by our government go unpunished? Time to can everyone who votes in favor of removing these medians. They don't have the backbone to lead this town. These are some of the same people who got pressured into a $20mm horse park because a few horse lovers felt unfulfilled without it.
Way to go guys, our town is now less safe thanks to your efforts.
NO you are wrong again. You really have no clue what went on. Too bad you didnt take the dozen or so chances offered to get informed. Actually the vote to remove was a display of back bone and leadership. The medians came about in the wrong way. Safety is and was addressed in the Town Center Plan.
What you are posting is your view...but its mostly a bunch of BS..That so called suicide lane has been on Ocotillo for many years. Tell us how many folks have been killed please. Can you do that? Can you cite any facts before spouting off?
Where the heck were you when we were fighting to get the right thing done and have the medians removed or improved? Where were you? You were a spectator who did nothing. A johnny come latley reduced to posting on the internet.
People didnt bitch. They worked hard for 2 months and produced convincing proof that those medians came about the wrong way and were not consistent with our Town Center Plan. Many folks worked really hard on that plan and it should be followed.
What did you do?
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gk
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:43 am |
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if you actually knew what you are talking about as far as the safety issue you would have an argument. Unfortunately you don't!
The method that was used to reach their conclusions on safety are very serious flawed. It was an improper application of statistics. I won't go into details again as that has already been discussed, but the bottom line about the conclusion about the safety issue came about due to a poorly applied statistical analysis.
You are talking from emotions and what you assume to be true, but the proper application of the data proves otherwise.
And again, the day was won by those of determination, of those who understood and stood firm and strong in their convictions. If you felt so strongly that it was the proper way to go, you still cannot mitigate the fact that you were uninvolved'
Complaining after the fact, is of no value!!
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:44 am by gk
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 07:27 am |
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Gk, you don't even live within town limits right? Why should any of us care what you say about how our tax dollars are spent? Throw kudos to whoever you want; town residents are the one's footing the bill for this stupidity. This is something intelligent people work out in the DESIGN phase. Not after it's built.
It's not safer without medians; that's propaganda. I elected my town leaders to deal with people who push for illogical and money-wasting initiatives in my stead so I can live my life. Obviously I greatly overestimated their ability to say no to anyone or anything.
How about for a welcoming icon we commission a nicely sculptured tax monkey on the back of a toiling resident. Let's make it soviet style design, build it, then tear it down and build it halfway again.
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gk
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 06:44 am |
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I'm convinced that it is safer with the medians gone, I applaud all of their efforts. It not only is safer, it benefits the small business owners and it served as proof that Americans can still have a say in their government.
I still lend very little credence to your opinion because YOU stood down and did nothing to present your case. Complainers are a dime a dozen. Your total lack of involvement is your fault, not the oppositions fault!!
They were impassioned in their pursuit and made the difference. It serves as a lesson to all that sitting on the sidelines and then arm chair quarterbacking is a use less endeavor. You reap what you sow!
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 06:48 am by gk
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 04:25 am |
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Are you also pooling your money to pay the hospital bills for the next person injured or killed as a result of a suicide lane?
This is unbelievable. Years of planning, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and actual construction ripped out of the ground because a few people bitch? Where were they in the design phase before it was going to cost us a hundreds of thousands? Any private sector employee who costs his company hundreds of thousands of dollars would get canned. Why should this colossal screwup by our government go unpunished? Time to can everyone who votes in favor of removing these medians. They don't have the backbone to lead this town. These are some of the same people who got pressured into a $20mm horse park because a few horse lovers felt unfulfilled without it.
Way to go guys, our town is now less safe thanks to your efforts.
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 04:31 am by CrimeFighter
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 10:32 pm |
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| There are several of us that are talking about getting some grant money for the Town Center to put towards some good as a sort of offset to the cost of removing the medians. IN addition we are also exploring the possibility of leaving pieces of them to reduce costs where access is not blocked which will address the aesthetic aspect of Ocotillo and perhaps leave us with a nice welcoming icon of sorts on the west end at the bridge. Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 11:21 pm by gsbill
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Krash
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 10:05 pm |
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I am glad they are ripping out the median, plain and simple they should have never put it in. They should recoup the cost of ripping it out in a few years by not having to pay for the upkeep of the median.
I feel sorry for the people that live in that area, now they can't ever have more then one visitor thanks to the road. I can tell you that when they start to park all their cars in their front yards, that will remind me of what QC looked like in the past.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 09:51 pm |
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it's an attack on the frivolous cause
Only in your opinion. Lets watch and see what the next frivolous cause will be.
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MiaTake
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 08:50 pm |
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote: Just for the comparison, I got 400 plus signatures in favor of Horseshoe Park, relative to the dealings with Maricopa County (I think 2004) in one afternoon, with a few volunteers. Almost all were town residents, as we went door to door only in subdivisions in Queen Creek. Never underestimate what a few committed citizens can accomplish when they put their mind to it. Signatures are cake, it's personal letters, which are harder to get and somewhat (at least to me) more meaningful, as they help provide insight into why someone feels the way they do. Now getting people to show up at a meeting, thats a whole other type of hard.
. . . And Horseshoe Park is a $20 million and counting fiasco.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:17 pm |
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gsbill wrote: DavidB wrote:
gsbill wrote: DavidB wrote:
gk wrote: Complainers and do nothings will never get anywhere, Complainers are a dime a dozen........doers are harder to come by. You stood down, while others stood up!!
Stop yer sniveling!
Complaining and sniveling is what caused this lapse of judgement in the first place.
Thats not true. You are a champion of rumor and baseless opinion. Your opinion is important and welcomed so post away. Examples of non involved after that fact uninformed feedback are important. Lets folks understand that they can make a difference with hard honest work. Also shows that without hard work and being involved you are basically left to making critical posts on the internet.
What was that you were saying about personal attacks? I seem to have forgotten while pondering how 6 extra inches in a bike lane will save so many lives and how impossible I find it to keep my vehicle in an 11 foot wide lane. Champion of rumor? Come on Bill, you can do better than that.
You are wrong again. The lanes will be 12 feet wide. You started the personal attacks. BEFORE the change there were 11 foot wide lanes.
I can read, Bill. It's called sarcasm, and my point was that an 11 foot lane suits me just fine. This is not an attack on anyone's character, it's an attack on the frivolous cause.
Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:18 pm by DavidB
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:10 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
gsbill wrote: DavidB wrote:
gk wrote: Complainers and do nothings will never get anywhere, Complainers are a dime a dozen........doers are harder to come by. You stood down, while others stood up!!
Stop yer sniveling!
Complaining and sniveling is what caused this lapse of judgement in the first place.
Thats not true. You are a champion of rumor and baseless opinion. Your opinion is important and welcomed so post away. Examples of non involved after that fact uninformed feedback are important. Lets folks understand that they can make a difference with hard honest work. Also shows that without hard work and being involved you are basically left to making critical posts on the internet.
What was that you were saying about personal attacks? I seem to have forgotten while pondering how 6 extra inches in a bike lane will save so many lives and how impossible I find it to keep my vehicle in an 11 foot wide lane. Champion of rumor? Come on Bill, you can do better than that.
You are wrong again. The lanes will be 12 feet wide. You started the personal attacks. BEFORE the change there were 11 foot wide lanes. Dont forget that the median in front of Russ' was put in wrong and needed to be ripped out in part and redone due to a design error. Shall we continue or are you done digging yet? Ya need a few more tries to discredit me and further your character attack mission?
I dont know that you can do better than that. BTW..arent you too busy running 2 businesses to get involved with town issues? It seems you have time to attack your neighbors. How does that work? Are there guidelines or something you follow. Like up to 60 minutes limit my time to attacking neighbors. Up to 90 minutes of free time attack neighbors and elected officials. Over 90 minutes get involved.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 03:48 pm |
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gsbill wrote: DavidB wrote:
gk wrote: Complainers and do nothings will never get anywhere, Complainers are a dime a dozen........doers are harder to come by. You stood down, while others stood up!!
Stop yer sniveling!
Complaining and sniveling is what caused this lapse of judgement in the first place.
Thats not true. You are a champion of rumor and baseless opinion. Your opinion is important and welcomed so post away. Examples of non involved after that fact uninformed feedback are important. Lets folks understand that they can make a difference with hard honest work. Also shows that without hard work and being involved you are basically left to making critical posts on the internet.
What was that you were saying about personal attacks? I seem to have forgotten while pondering how 6 extra inches in a bike lane will save so many lives and how impossible I find it to keep my vehicle in an 11 foot wide lane. Champion of rumor? Come on Bill, you can do better than that.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 03:29 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
gk wrote: Complainers and do nothings will never get anywhere, Complainers are a dime a dozen........doers are harder to come by. You stood down, while others stood up!!
Stop yer sniveling!
Complaining and sniveling is what caused this lapse of judgement in the first place.
Thats not true. You are a champion of rumor and baseless opinion. Your opinion is important and welcomed so post away. Examples of non involved after that fact uninformed feedback are important. Lets folks understand that they can make a difference with hard honest work. Also shows that without hard work and being involved you are basically left to making critical posts on the internet.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 03:23 pm |
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geaston wrote:
sorry GS, but when every story has Russ as the "point person" for this issue, then that's how it gets categorized. I don't see any mention of the owner of the hospital driving this bus. i don't recall seeing the hospital staff posting pleas on this board for action. are you saying that i should have listed all businesses who benefited from this
plus i said Russ et al. i never learned latin, but i believe that means "and everyone else involved". and i don't recall my post being Russ'centric in its topic. i only mentioned his company in the last paragraph. and i think that i mentioned that i shop there and will continue to do so.
Thats because you have no clue about what went on and who was involved. You have no idea who was doing what in the organized group that took on this challenge. Post away..its your right and your opinions should be heard.
Nobody benefited..Their lives are returned to what they were before the median..No gain what so ever. What was taken will be returned.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 03:15 pm |
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Does anybody care about our Town Center Plan? Does anybody care about proper process? Does anybody care about council votes that did or did not occur? Does anybody care about questionable information being used in staff presentations? Does anybody care about the right of the citizen to voice their opinions and question governments decisions?
There has been a 2 way left turn on Ocotillo for years. Its a safe road and will be even safer with the new design. Wider bike lanes and wider traffic lanes. Lawsuits will not fly because the road was improved a 2nd time w/o medians. Roads all over the valley have the same design.
Not one of you keyboard warriors got involved. Call me what you wish but town staff and our elected officials worked hard thru all of this. The information and proof that was provided stood on its own merit and could not be ignored. They are not dunces. Maybe what you dont know is that many of those involved on both sides have been friends for some time.
I am amazed at the fact that some of you are willing to let your fellow residents and business owners take a huge financial hit because of mistakes made in the progression of a submitted plan.
You guys really dont have a clue and refused to get a clue when offered and also did nothing to defend what you believed in. You were all spectators and now after the fact critics. Hey its your right. You can all establish your own stations in life..so have at it.
geaston...There is a pretty good issue you can get involved with right here in The Villages. I did get the dialog going to fix the retention basin and parking at the tot lot. Town is involved in that process. Why dont you help with that?
After that you can work on getting speed bumps at our elementary school and in front of the tot lot. Lots to do geaston right in your own backyard.
Now back to disrespecting your neighbors and town officials!
Council meetings are twice per month and town committees meet each month. The town's website has all the details.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 02:57 pm |
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CrimeFighter wrote:
I'm now going to hire GSBill to tirelessly lobby council until they install a multi-million dollar jump ramp in my back yard in case I ever decide to take up BMX racing. Apparently they are weak willed an easily manipulated into pissing away taxpayers money.
Good job for voting no Jeff and Councilman Mortenson. Jeff should be running this town.
The no vote was for a delay to let TAC have time with the issue. You will be surprised at to what happens next and who proposed it. Be ready to change your uninformed opinion again soon.
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geaston
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 07:21 am |
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sorry GS, but when every story has Russ as the "point person" for this issue, then that's how it gets categorized. I don't see any mention of the owner of the hospital driving this bus. i don't recall seeing the hospital staff posting pleas on this board for action. are you saying that i should have listed all businesses who benefited from this
plus i said Russ et al. i never learned latin, but i believe that means "and everyone else involved". and i don't recall my post being Russ'centric in its topic. i only mentioned his company in the last paragraph. and i think that i mentioned that i shop there and will continue to do so.
Last edited on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 07:23 am by geaston
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geaston
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 07:13 am |
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hey CF, don't use "squeeky wheel" it's not PC. i actually watched the meeting and it seemed like jeff had as much time as he needed to speak, but correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like this turn caught him off guard at the meeting as all those in favor already seemed like their decision was already made.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 06:08 am |
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gk wrote: Complainers and do nothings will never get anywhere, Complainers are a dime a dozen........doers are harder to come by. You stood down, while others stood up!!
Stop yer sniveling!
Complaining and sniveling is what caused this lapse of judgement in the first place.
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orchardranchres
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:59 am |
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Thanks to all the dunces, GSBILL and Barnes, Sanders, Barney, Hildebrandt you just cost our town millions of dollars and not just 115 thousand.
This aint over. Read Jeff's post. I will bet you that the second median part will be asked for in one month or less which means 250 thousand dollars.
Millions of dollars will be paid out in lawsuits. In no more than 2 years there will be a head on crash and lawyers will sue us for millions of dollars because we had medians but then removed them. I just watched the meeting, why was Jeff Brown cut off by Barney when he was trying to ask questions?
Mayor Sanders is a dunce. He said that it would be less expensive now to remove the median now rather than later. Jeff asked staff if that was true and it wasn't. Sanders can't do simple math and keeps trying to shut the one guy on council that is asking the right questions up.
Craig Barnes is a dunce. I heard him say that if someone had gotten hurt and their vision was impaired or they had a broken arm or broken leg and was driving to the doctor it would be tough for them to make a u-turn. Clu said it and I know it too that isn't a urgent care facility. Even if it was why would someone with impaired vision or broken arm be driving themselves and making u-turns? Craig Barnes I ask you
After Barnes made that rediculous remark then Barney said "I agree" and then Hildebrandt said "I agree" and then the head dunce said "Give me a motion" and then tried to not let Jeff speak.
Go to town website and watch the video. We have bad judgement on council that is going to cost millions of dollars.
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:17 am |
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