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gsbill
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 09:47 pm |
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| David...read your PM's and call me about our meeting tonight.
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morgan
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 01:12 pm |
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Love the signs. No disrespect to the topic... a little humor was needed at this stage ... ok now continue ...
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DavidB
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 04:07 am |
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DavidB
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 03:55 am |
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Thanks for the laughs...
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Officially Public
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Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 02:23 am |
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DavidB
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Posted: Sun Oct 12th, 2008 07:59 pm |
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Sorry, I couldn't help this one:
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 08:17 am |
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I can't believe I feel compelled to defend myself on this issue, but as many times as I have been attacked here, it feels like its guilty until proven innocent.
I feel as if you're implying I am changing historical records in this thread. Not 1 post is edited after a response was posted so it was certainly not reactionary.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 08:11 am |
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gsbill wrote: Why did you go back and edit so many posts? When I go back to find remarks made by you they are gone.
The only time I edited posts was for typos. Check the post last edit stamps so you don't start calling me a liar again.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 08:09 am |
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gsbill wrote: But when he and others dont have all the info and post up that I am a liar and a thief..that gets me sort of pissed off.
Touche
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 07:30 am |
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If your implication is that I should "RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY!" Oh boy! I'm scared, very scared! Just the thought that we watch the same TV has me a little worried.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 04:59 am |
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Ok, ok, time to come out from behind my alias. Here is a picture of the man you all have known as "Crimefighter":
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 04:22 am |
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CrimeFighter wrote: gsbill wrote: CF..well..CF needs to reveal his/her self.
Whatever. I am holding out for the right offer from People magazine. Upon receipt of a satisfactory offer I will grant a 30 minute interview. The photos will be sold for $10mm.
One of these days, someone here is going to out you, it is just a question of when and who. But meanwhile, we all scratch our heads and say to ourselves "Who in the world is CF?"
BTW, I think I am getting pretty darn close! 
Lisa
"In the doghouse up the Creek"
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 04:21 am |
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CrimeFighter wrote:
gsbill wrote: CF..well..CF needs to reveal his/her self.
Whatever. I am holding out for the right offer from People magazine. Upon receipt of a satisfactory offer I will grant a 30 minute interview. The photos will be sold for $10mm.
Come out of the wood work. Maybe we can work up a story in the local paper for starters.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 04:13 am |
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gsbill wrote: CF..well..CF needs to reveal his/her self.
Whatever. I am holding out for the right offer from People magazine. Upon receipt of a satisfactory offer I will grant a 30 minute interview. The photos will be sold for $10mm.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 02:56 am |
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote:
Bill,
This is stupid. While you and I do not always agree, I think I can say I respect you and that is not because you are a thief or a liar! Get over it! Come back and play in the sandbox, it would be lonely and boring without you.
As far as the carpenter thing goes, I went to Christian school and have a healthy respect for the profession as a whole. One's profession does not indicate one's intelligence. I would be the stupid one if I believed that!
Lisa
"In Doghouse Central"
I'm deep in the sandbox. I have a lot of neat tools to dig with. Get these boys together and lets have lunch. David needs to be filled in. Jeff can verify. You were there. CF..well..CF needs to reveal his/her self. I am on the phone with Jeff right now and he said he would go. Put it together.
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Sat Oct 11th, 2008 02:21 am |
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Bill,
This is stupid. While you and I do not always agree, I think I can say I respect you and that is not because you are a thief or a liar! Get over it! Come back and play in the sandbox, it would be lonely and boring without you.
As far as the carpenter thing goes, I went to Christian school and have a healthy respect for the profession as a whole. One's profession does not indicate one's intelligence. I would be the stupid one if I believed that!
Lisa
"In Doghouse Central"
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 11:36 pm |
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This was the packet that was given to council to support this action
One more thing. Most of what was contained in your link was ignored. That is not even close to the information that was gathered. You really think council read that stuff and changed their minds? Understand we were asked to supply study information and even asked at one point to provide an engineer to dispute staffs position. There was a ton of email back and forth. Many meetings and a whole bunch of other material was made available to staff and council thats not in your packet David. You have a small piece of the puzzle to work with.
Why did you go back and edit so many posts? When I go back to find remarks made by you they are gone.
Watch your PM's early next week.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 08:45 pm |
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I however, see nothing wrong with him posting the information
There isnt..But when he and others dont have all the info and post up that I am a liar and a thief..that gets me sort of pissed off. Been called all sorts of stuff throughout this mess as I and others attempted to right a wrong. We fought along side of our fellow residents. Added to that I have several friends on here who I defend quite regularly who dont at least say..."Hey..Bill is not a liar or a thief".
I literally did weeks of research on this as did many others and we put together a presentable package to council and staff. Its not bogus. Its not lies. I didnt cheat or mislead anybody. What I had presented with others made sense and proved on town documents what happened.
Are we really believing that a retired form carpenter can fool an entire town council and staff with false information?
The fact that the petition, which ended up useless, had out of town signatures on it isnt in question and its not any kind of a discovery. The fact that I was called names over submitting to council so called bogus information in an attempt to lie and mislead is BS. Spreading that over and over again is a lie after one is told.
You should get with David, cf, QC Boiler and invite Jeff and lets all go over this stuff. Jeff knows most of it as he was one council person who spent the most time seeking the information.
You know first hand how neighbors fighting for right as a group works. You also know who are the ones taking on a lot of the wrong.
I am so done with this online. I will never again use the internet to discuss promote or fight any issue ever again.
Nothing was gained or lost here. The things I learned I'd have been better off not knowing.
David..watch your PM's early next week.
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 08:25 pm |
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GSBill,
I am NOT trying to call you a liar. You are one of the most up front people I know. I am privileged to call you a friend. If I came off too strongly, I am sorry. If you recall, I have been trying to stay away from this issue. My problem is when someone who is clearly engaged is being called a liar for presenting indisputable facts. Clearly you and David B are both on different sides of this issue and see it differently and that is O.K. I however, see nothing wrong with him posting the information and letting other people form a knowledgeable opinion.
In this case, I still believe the way in which the Council handled this, regardless of the outcome was deplorable and resulted in residents being burdened with the costs of their lack of timely decision making and flip flopping.
I still want to know what the costs attached to this item are.
Bill, don't change who you are. I think it's great to have someone who can take up a cause with the voracity you have. There are very few people I have met with your passion. I believe that you believe that what you are doing is right. Let's just keep it civil, above board and out in the open, O.K? Again, if I offended you, then I am sorry.
Lisa
"Still in the dog house and not leaving anytime soon"
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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| Just got in D..Records requests wont get you all we have. I'm sure all if it was not entered into public record. I am busy thru this weekend. I will contact you early next week and we can get together. Having all the facts will prevent you from jumping to erroneous conclusions. There is work being done to save money on the fix. Maybe you want to get involved and help with that. Reality is the debate/arguments on here do very little to further any cause. Got to get out and do the work. See you next week.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:27 pm |
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gsbill wrote: David has started his exposing mission calling everybody names, insulting people form top to bottom and across the board.
Come ON Bill. Read this thread from the start. You are the one who has been calling people names. How many times do you think someone can be called a clueless liar before they start to get ticked off? According to you, anybody who doesn't see it your way is clueless.
I made 1 reference to the fact that anybody who could not get to Russ' parking lot because of the median was either stupid or lazy. I stand behind that statement in its entirety. This got spun, like so many other things do on this forum. Now it is top to bottom and across the board? Please.
This is yet another misprepresentation of facts used to advance your view and I think most people will read this thread, think for themselves, and form their own opinions.
So I guess your offer is no longer valid to get this information you are coveting. I don't blame you, as you have seen what I have done with the information I was able to gather on my own in a couple days. It's just as well, I think I have all the information I need to present a cohesive argument to council.
I notice that nobody will come forward with an example of how I am lying. Just some cute graphics and baseless accusations. What a joke.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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Lisa..the median break was offered. It was denied by council. Thats Russ' issue alone. If staff didnt rush the vote a better solution would have been had.
The petitions didnt play a major role in this effort. Many people were angry that town pretty much ignored them. Why isnt anybody concerned over the fact that these medians came about via a broken process and should have never been built in the first place. How about that? Concerned here anybody?
David has started his exposing mission calling everybody names, insulting people form top to bottom and across the board.
Am I a liar and a thief Lisa? Am I honorable and trustworthy Lisa? I could use a little back up in that department.
There is currently no access management policy in town. One will be developed over the next few months. As we used this website to communicate anybody could have got involved on one side or the other. The public was invited to our meetings. The public did come. The few on the attack here didnt. I did everything I could think of to get info to cf short of reading it all aloud.
Nothing was hidden. Nobody lied to anybody. Nobody was tricked. The facts in this fight were gathered from town records and stood on their own merit. Its too bad critics of what we had didnt get to see any of it or read any of it.
What nobody here knows is that this group was not against all medians. It was offered that a mix of raised medians and 2 way left turn lanes be built to follow along with the Town Center Plan and provide aesthetic elements in addition to traffic calming elements.
This break down in the process can happen again. We all tried hard to get the town to NOT spend and watse a ton of money.
Did you know the median was built wrong at your driveway Lisa? The fix was over 21k bucks and would have required a good portion of the median in front of Russ' to be removed and then REBUILT.
Did you know in Russ' packet with all his plans and drawings that Ocotillo Road is shown as having no medians. Yes I have that drawing too.
After all of that I cant believe that residents dont care about their fellow residents. This was not all about Russ. Dont forget the homes that were cut off and theloss in property values for those folks. How can anybody support that when it all came about wrong?
I had no dog in this race. No benefit to me. I found something wrong and looked to correct it. I joined the group that was fighting the medians. In the beginning I didnt have an opinion. I formed an opinion after watching a presentation by staff at the July council meeting and then doing a whole bunch of research.
You want to burn me at the stake for that. Have at it. You all had the same chance I did to stand for what you thought was right. I even offered over and over again to help the pro median crowd get information and I offered to share what I had.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:36 pm |
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| If it's OK with you, let's start over here. I'd be willing to see what you have if you would like to meet someplace. I have a crazy day preparing for a grand opening tomorrow, but I can find some time this evening.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:34 pm |
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gsbill wrote: Make a records request.
I did so. That's where I got the information that was presented to council. Again, here is a link to the petition. I coded the municipality on the left edge. You are welcome to check my work.
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:27 pm |
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If you really wanted to just get this information out to the 3 stooges, why didn't you just post it here as I did?
Because its 100's of hard copy pages. You could have done it after I gave it all to you. I was going to give you all of our research David. Was going to give it to cf too. Besides the majority is public record. Its yours for the asking over at town hall. Make a records request.
You posted a summary. I dont see the actual petition posted. Maybe its due to my firewall or security settings.
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:12 pm |
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Lisa.Coletto.Cohen wrote: I am curious, what would we have gotten for the 200K that you are now spending to remove the medians? Don't you dare even tell me it is coming from contingency. This does not include any money that was spent in delays, change orders, etc , nor the installation in the first place. So what is the actual total cost to the taxpayers for this fiasco? What are we loosing for your lack of decision making and leadership?
I am still waiting......................What project(s) will suffer for this fiasco? What is the total all encompassing cost. This one may be harder for staff as they have always had a problem with direct and indirect cost analysis. Craig, can you answer this?
David B. you are 100% on in your comments regarding the petitions, they are or should have been erroneous information. Council should take more than a bunch of signatures into account when making decisions, irrespective of the issue. They are just one piece of a puzzle. I hope this happened, but I can't say it did, as I have little faith in the Mayor (I love this new role call vote system developed for chickens. Call for the question , THEN ask for the role call! This is just a way for him to vote last so he can see where everyone else is.) I still don't understand why a median break was not offered unless it didn't meet intersection separation requirements.
I feel for Russ, truly, I attended his son's funeral, it was a very hard time for him and Jeannie. This situation or any change is scary. I know, it has happened to us to with respect to competition. My feeling is that Russ' brings something missing entirely from the other places. I remember him worrying when he was faced with Home Depot, he continued to do well and will continue to do as well as anyone in this economic climate. But my fear is that this issue is hurting him. I have spoken to a number of people who are so angry about this, they are saying they won't go back. I hope this issue isn't more damaging to him than the median would have been.
To those attacking David B. and saying he is lying and full of B.S., you are being ridiculous. Is the information he posted incorrect? Is he saying something untruthful? Did he change the petitions or just an attempt to get the information that was existing to a wider audience? I see nothing wrong with what he has said or done and actually would hate to see him decide to disengage because he was attacked for attempting to disseminate information given to Council which was supposedly integral to the decision making process. Once more we have a person doing it under an alias. If anything is untruthful here, it is you, sir. I did not expect this from you OP. Come back to the light and debate like the above board person you are!
Lisa
"Still in the dog house and probably will be for some time!"
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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gsbill wrote: Be sure and let the mayor, council and staff know how they were lied to and misled.
You can be assured that I will.
You kept calling people out to meet you. If you really wanted to just get this information out to the 3 stooges, why didn't you just post it here as I did? Why aren't you doing that now? Clearly, we are the only 3 people in QC who oppose this wasteful spending. lol
This was the packet that was given to council to support this action. I laughed quite a bit reading the irrelevant articles. My favorite was the article about turn lanes that states they are safer than an undivided highway. It makes no mention of comparing them to the safety of a median. In fact, you can use the very documents you supplied to support the retention of the medians.
I have received many PMs from people who support the research I did and my questioning of your matter-of-fact presentation here, but don't want to post publicly on the issue. I have no problem rattling some cages if it shakes the truth out.
Honestly, Bill, this isn't at ALL personal. This is me being active and standing up for what I believe is right for our town. I'm sorry that this has put us at odds with each other to the point of you calling me names, but if that's the price I have to pay to expose this effort for what it is, then I am willing to pay it.
So if I am to understand this correctly, if you don't question the petition and other items you presented to council, you are a do-nothing. If you do, then you are a stooge. Too funny.
Last edited on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 04:09 pm by DavidB
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gsbill
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 03:44 pm |
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QC Boiler wrote:
Wow, this petition is such a scam. Why not get signatures of Tucson residents while you're at it? I cannot believe these are the FACTS that Bill and his small band of thieves forced upon this forum and the council...unreal!
Thanks DB for exposing them. I only hope the council is not fooled by their lies next time they have a pet issue.
Thieves? Are you for real? Why dont you ask somebody at town what went on. These attacks are really getting old. The 3 stooges dont have any idea went on. Petitions were left at public places and people signed them. Petitions didnt cause the council to remove the medians. AS a matter of fact they were pretty much ignored. Nobody lied to council either.
I tried to EXPOSE all I had for weeks on end. CF and others didnt want to see any of the stuff I had. Another bitter Monday morning quarterback who does not have a clue.
Tell me...how is it I am exposed by somebody I offered all the research I had? Why dont you answer that CF? Tell us how many times I offered all the information I had to you for your review.
EXPOSED...What a pack of jokers. What'd you guys discover today? Fire? The wheel?
Be sure and let the mayor, council and staff know how they were lied to and misled.
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QC Boiler
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 03:17 pm |
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Wow, this petition is such a scam. Why not get signatures of Tucson residents while you're at it? I cannot believe these are the FACTS that Bill and his small band of thieves forced upon this forum and the council...unreal!
Thanks DB for exposing them. I only hope the council is not fooled by their lies next time they have a pet issue.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 01:49 pm |
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OP,
Those are some snappy graphics, but I'm not exactly sure how David can be wrong for bringing to the attention of the average resident the actually lack of public support that existed for this median removal among town residents. Supporters of this median removal have repeatedly used this petition as an example of resident displeasure with the medians. Turns out it's more a sampling of people who don't pay for it's removal.
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Officially Public
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 06:04 am |
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DavidB wrote:
Officially Public wrote: Exposing? Petitions were entered into public record and read by town staff and council. Its like D found daylight this morning and you gave him credit for exposing sunshine.
Blame Queen Creek for poor information. Their information was used.
This is like debating a tree stump.
Oh yeah. We should all be in the know like you. Hahahaha!
Got wrong? Say yes at DB's!
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Officially Public
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 06:00 am |
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What he should have requested is a turn lane cut into the median
Russ did. He was denied in July. Got truth? Not!
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:53 am |
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Officially Public wrote: Exposing? Petitions were entered into public record and read by town staff and council. Its like D found daylight this morning and you gave him credit for exposing sunshine.
Blame Queen Creek for poor information. Their information was used.
This is like debating a tree stump.
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Officially Public
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:50 am |
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CrimeFighter wrote:
Nice work by David exposing that fraud of a petition. Only 20% even live in the town. The rest of the rabble should have zero say in how our town dollars are spent. Finally the truth is coming out about this ripoff median removal and the incredibly poor information that was used to influence Council.
Exposing? Petitions were entered into public record and read by town staff and council. Its like D found daylight this morning and you gave him credit for exposing sunshine.
Blame Queen Creek for poor information. Their information was used.
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CrimeFighter
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:40 am |
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| Nice work by David exposing that fraud of a petition. Only 20% even live in the town. The rest of the rabble should have zero say in how our town dollars are spent. Finally the truth is coming out about this ripoff median removal and the incredibly poor information that was used to influence Council.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:01 am |
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Officially Public wrote: Thats it! You found the key evidence. The fake petition was used to trick town staff and our elected officials and everybody else, the media too, into voting to remove the median. Brilliant work! The smoking gun. Too bad you wont realize what happened for real. You deny all the history and make up things as you go. You called the entire town names and all your neighbors names who fought against a wrong. You have to be drunk to follow your view on things.
Thank you for noticing. Maybe you're starting to get it after all. This petition is a perfect example of the true nature of this effort. It doesn't matter to you guys where the signatures come from as long as you have a long list of names to make it appear that people who should have a voice in this are supporting you. The truth is they don't and so you had to get people who don't have to pay for this to sign on. It's despicable and slimy.
I haven't made up a single thing, nor have I intentionally misrepresented facts as the supporters of this have. Show me 1 example. Just 1!
I also didn't call the entire town names. That statement is about as truthful as this petition. Read what I wrote slowly this time and try not to interject your own bias as you do so.
I don't want my tax money squandered. If you have to be drunk to understand that, then have a beer for Pete's sake. Maybe it will help you comprehend the blatantly obvious. If you follow your logic, I should start a petition here in QC to dictate how affairs should be handled in Las Vegas. That sounds rediculous, doesn't it?
While I agree that a QC business owner should have a voice in affairs that effect their business, this is simply another spin you are using to try to push your agenda. Are you implying that there are 140 business owners who are supporting this? Come on, cut the crap. These are people who signed a piece of paper at Russ' checkout line with absolutely no idea of the cost involved, the danger they will be putting people in, or the long term liability the town will have because of it. Why should it matter to them, though? They don't have to pay for it.
I realize perfectly well what happened. A median was built that had been planned for many years. Russ didn't like it, so he started a crusade to have them removed. I have spoken to numerous people about this. People that have been around here a lot longer than I have and are in the know. This is total crap and most people know that. I just hope that I am successful in convincing the council to think this through and retain the median.
I can appreciate that Russ wants to make his business more accessible. I have stated that numerous times. What he should have requested is a turn lane cut into the median, not it's removal. Removing the median will result in an ugly street right through the middle of town, increased risk to people that use the roadway, and a tremendous potential liability to the town should a serious accident occur because a safety device was installed then removed.
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Officially Public
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:46 am |
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| Thats it! You found the key evidence. The fake petition was used to trick town staff and our elected officials and everybody else, the media too, into voting to remove the median. Brilliant work! The smoking gun. Too bad you wont realize what happened for real. You deny all the history and make up things as you go. You called the entire town names and all your neighbors names who fought against a wrong. You have to be drunk to follow your view on things.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 01:47 am |
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Officially Public wrote: Now thats funny. Sense of humor required.
If it had any basis, it might be funnier. Everything I have posted is absolutely true. Just because it is contrary to your opinion, doesn't make the data bad. That petition is the real joke. Get a clue.Last edited on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 02:00 am by DavidB
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 01:45 am |
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QCAdvocate wrote: How did you come to that conclusion? It appears that our council made that decision. Out of town business owners do have every right as do their employees. You are snapping to judgements without having all the needed information.
Because it is simply common sense. What next, are we going to allow out of town people to vote in our elections? Should we provide services to the unincorporated parts of our town even though they don't pay taxes? This is beyond absurd. I know, let's just let Pinal county residents determine what happens in QC.
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Officially Public
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 01:02 am |
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Now thats funny. Sense of humor required.
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QCAdvocate
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 11:17 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
Officially Public wrote: Town sure does care what those who dont live here think.
They must certainly not when it comes to spending our tax dollars. Period. People who don't pay taxes here have no right whatsoever to determine our fiscal policies.
How did you come to that conclusion? It appears that our council made that decision. Out of town business owners do have every right as do their employees. You are snapping to judgements without having all the needed information.
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DavidB
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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Officially Public wrote: Town sure does care what those who dont live here think.
They must certainly not when it comes to spending our tax dollars. Period. People who don't pay taxes here have no right whatsoever to determine our fiscal policies.
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DavidB
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 10:49 pm |
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Officially Public wrote: Are you really going with the group lied by submitting a petition? I am going with the fact that these addresses were never checked and it was terribly easy to do. Some of these addresses even listed other cities. It would be difficult to imagine this wasn't evident before it was presented. How about we let the home owners and business owners fight for whats right at their front door? They have a right to fight for the removal, just as others have a right to fight to not have our tax dollars wasted. Nobody remembered voting for them. But the fact remains that they did. You made a lot of enemies calling names and insulting people across the board like you are the only smart one and have this figured out. Youre a big jerk who is a day late and a whole lotta dollars short. Very mature, sir. 'Big Jerk' lol. If disagreeing with somebody makes me their enemy, then it's probably not a big loss anyway. At least we can agree that I will be a whole lotta dollars short should this ultimately be allowed to happen.
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Officially Public
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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| Big D, Did you bother to think that people can read. Like those on the council. And teh people who work at town hall. Are you really going with the group lied by submitting a petition? You seem to ignore that the medians being built came about by a series of mistakes. The mistakes were found and showed to the town. Looks like the people and the town did a lot of work over time before fixing the mistake. Town sure does care what those who dont live here think. Look at all the new stores. They came here with towns blessings to get tax revenue from all over. You called everybody names and insulted everybody including the ones at town who you want to help you. You havent found anything new. Town has seen all of it, read all of it, reviewed all of it and acted. Petitions arent real useful anyway. The will was from those who had a median stuck in their face. The signatures were of those who backed up the ones who had the medians stuck in their face. How about we let the home owners and business owners fight for whats right at their front door? The medians came about by mistake. Nobody knew. Nobody remembered voting for them. You made a lot of enemies calling names and insulting people across the board like you are the only smart one and have this figured out. Youre a big jerk who is a day late and a whole lotta dollars short.
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DavidB
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 09:51 pm |
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QCAdvocate wrote: You just called a large group of people in Queen Creek stupid and lazy to further your cause which is based on half truths, rumor and plain old lack of information. You were the lazy and stupid person.
If you cannot manage to get your vehicle into his parking lot with the median that exists there, then I would assert you are either stupid or lazy. That was the context this statement was made in. Don't try to distort the truth as has been done to our council. Sorry, but it's really not that hard to figure out you have to drive behind the store.
You have been nasty and abusive to other posters here in the past. That is a great testament to your character. Good Luck. You are going to need it. You won't get by with charm and intellect alone.
I have been assertive in voicing my opinion and refuse to accept a rediculous argument as fact. If you interpret that as 'nasty', that is your perogitive. For the umpteenth time, I speak for myself and I do not represent an entire neighborhood just because I live in it.
Now, back to the subject. I have done a lot of work going through the petition that was submitted to Council as the basis to say this is the will of the citizens of the TOQC.
There were 2 seperate petitions. One of them did not include addresses so they could have been signed by Mickey Mouse and there would be no way to verify one way or the other. The other list contained 178 names with addresses. I mapped each and every one of them and these are the results:
Nobody even bothered to verify these signatures were from residents of TOQC. Maybe they should have made it 52 hours instead of 50 to make sure the information they are providing to council isn't a lie.
Why on earth does anyone care what people who do not live in our town think? They don't have to pay for this insanity, TOQC taxpayers do.
Clearly, this is not the will of the people, it is the will of a small group who have a vested interest in it.
You guys keep saying that the final cost figure isn't determined yet, but the only thing undetermined is if it is going to be about $200K to rip them all out at once, or $250K to rip them out in 2 phases.
This was an underhanded manipulation of our Council and I resent it. It's clear from this petition alone, that whoever is behind this movement could care less about presenting factual data. They just want to find anything that will support their desire. I looked at the entire packet that was given to council on this matter. It is amazingly irrelevant to the issue at hand. I sure hope there is still a chance to prevent this colossal waste of my hard earned tax dollars, and I can assure you that I'm not alone.
For those of you who will once again try to accuse me of being a liar, here is the petition. I put letters on the left side to indicate where the person's address is.
Submitting this petition as representative of the citizens of the TOQC is the lie.
Last edited on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 10:07 pm by DavidB
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QCAdvocate
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 07:30 pm |
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Russ' intention in this action was to increase business in his store. I believe that if people know the truth behind what he cost the town if this is to be followed through, he will lose more business than the customers he might lose who are too stupid or too lazy to get to his parking lot.
You are very wrong. The actual cost to take out the medians has not been determined. You just called a large group of people in Queen Creek stupid and lazy to further your cause which is based on half truths, rumor and plain old lack of information. You were the lazy and stupid person.
I saw you posting in the past on the Pegasus issue. I wonder if the rest of your neighbors harbor the same feelings towards Queen Creek citizens and shoppers as you do. Those stupid lazy people will have a say over what happens with Pegasus' request for jets and helicopters.
You have been nasty and abusive to other posters here in the past. That is a great testament to your character. Good Luck. You are going to need it. You won't get by with charm and intellect alone.
Signed..One stupid lazy Queen Creek citizen.
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DavidB
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 05:25 pm |
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Officially Public wrote: The posts you made dont make sense to those who know how it all happened.
I know, we should just all trust your guys' biased judgment on this issue and happily flush $200K+ down the toilet.
What doesn't make sense is removing a median in the name of safety with an argument about trying to get to a Dr's office with a broken arm or bad eyes. Perhaps someone with a vision problem shouldn't be DRIVING A CAR.
Most of the names were collected at Russ' store. I will be working on researching those names and whether or not they even live in TOQC. A quick glance showed at least a 1 address in Mesa.
This petition was unscientific at best and did not present the full story to people who signed it. Had they known this involved squandering a large sum of our tax dollars, I'm sure the list would be far shorter.
I have reviewed all of the materials that were presented to council. Some of it was simply comical. I really enjoyed the story about the people in CT who ran over a median because 'they couldn't see it'. I needed a laugh. I also liked the article regarding two way left turn lanes that stated that if you seperate a 4 lane undivided road into 2 lanes with a center turn lane, it makes the street safer. DUH. It made no mention of comparing it to a street with a median in it.
It is very clear to me and others that this effort is driven by a very small group of business owners along Ocotillo and at the expense of every taxpaying citizen of QC. We need to end the days of the tail wagging the dog in this town and the council needs to take a stand in defending its actions. The medians were and are the right thing to do on Ocotillo in the name of safety. To somehow imply that installing a median will make it less safe getting to a hardware store is ludicrous.
Russ' intention in this action was to increase business in his store. I believe that if people know the truth behind what he cost the town if this is to be followed through, he will lose more business than the customers he might lose who are too stupid or too lazy to get to his parking lot. I know I was a big supporter of his store throughout this debate, but will be shopping elsewhere now that I have discovered what he has done with my tax dollars to try to benefit himself. Come on Home Depot!
I am taking up this fight and have gathered this information and put it into PDF format to share. I won't make anybody come meet me anywhere in order to share the information as others have. If you would like to have access to this, please send me a private message and I will forward it along.
David
Last edited on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 06:30 pm by DavidB
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Officially Public
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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There were a few fronts in the fight against the medians. There were a few different petitions going around. There were more medians planed on Ocotillo. Russ did a lot of his own work fighting for his store. The QC Cafe did a lot of their own work. Rudy's did a lot of their own work. There were a lot of people working at times together and at other times on their own.
The posts you made dont make sense to those who know how it all happened.
You have a lot of work to do DavidB just to find out what went on. I dont want to debate you so this will be it.
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DavidB
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Posted: Thu Oct 9th, 2008 11:29 am |
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We've all been told this isn't all about Russ' store
And also, not about safety
Yet, I find it curious that the signatures gathered for this petition were gathered from a poll in front of Russ' store with this on the front page:
I refuse to drop to the level of calling anyone a liar, but I would very much like to hear an explanation out of... I mean for this.
You asked me to get involved. Be careful what you wish for.
I'm not sure of the date the median was installed, but I would also submit that this is misleading in that is states PLANNED median. It fails to mention that people are signing to spend $200K+ to remove an EXISTING median.
Last edited on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 12:23 pm by DavidB
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gk
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 09:07 pm |
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As others have said, this will be fresh in my mind come election time. It is also a wake up call to all of us that we need to pay attention to what is being put before our council. It seems just about anything can happen
gee, you mean like getting involved in your town and being gernerally aware? Novel idea?
You hit the nail on the head! Do nothings don't have a say. Of course municipal, county and state government listen to people that make a strong case and can convince them!! Who else is there to listen to? Bottom line as I have observed.........un-involved do nothings get nothing, it's always been that way everywhere
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