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QC Boiler
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Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 04:18 am |
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| The worst he could do is more than double the national debt. Oh wait, the conservatives have already accomplished that. Perhaps we'll have fiscal responsibility now!
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 03:52 am |
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I'm by no means a supporter of McCain/Palin but that's kinda weak sauce to say she's declaring war on Iran. Clearly she doesn't know what she's talking about but I'm not sure you could say she clearly declared war on Iran.
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Spin Reply
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Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 03:29 am |
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Watch Palin and her view on wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9LofMCa8A
Can you say she is remotely qualified?
Why do you promote hate, division, and negativism? Is this a Christian way of promoting your beliefs? Do onto others!
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gk
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Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 02:58 am |
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http://www.wvrecord.com/news/215679-coal-official-calls-obama-comments-unbelievable
http://www.wsaz.com/political/headlines/33726759.html
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Bambi
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Posted: Sun Nov 2nd, 2008 12:24 am |
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DavidB wrote: Bambi wrote: Gene....I know you're a good man and mean no harm. This bantering is all political and will soon be over. It's like fighting for your Team to win the World Series. Just different players.
Except in this 'game' the winning team doesn't have the capacity to destroy the country. 
Lighten up my Friend. Our Country will not be destroyed. We are strong and we will bounce back, as we have done many times before. We're a resilient nation comprised of good people with good intentions, that choose to live here because of our freedoms. No one wants to destroy our freedoms on either side.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sun Nov 2nd, 2008 12:17 am |
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Bambi wrote: Gene....I know you're a good man and mean no harm. This bantering is all political and will soon be over. It's like fighting for your Team to win the World Series. Just different players.
Except in this 'game' the winning team doesn't have the capacity to destroy the country.
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 10:21 pm |
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Gene....I know you're a good man and mean no harm. This bantering is all political and will soon be over. It's like fighting for your Team to win the World Series. Just different players.
I may ride in your patrol car next Halloween. Sounds like a good way to get candy; forget giving it out.....it's time for grandma to have some candy.
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gk
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 09:50 pm |
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Bambi, I'm certainly not trying to tell you who you are.......you are one of a kind!
I admire that you stand behind your choices and try to take everything into account, but let's face it........Both of those items were just too hard to walk away from unanswered!
These two choiced are what we "the people" are supposedly left with. The brightest and the best that America has to offer ...right!..
No! What we are left to choose from is dumb and dumber. One wants to beat everyone up and is about to slide away into senility, and the other is a radical Socialist who calls for a redistribution of wealth. Just as long as it's not his.
Take yourself, or even myself, with tax returns like those he could only manage to spare a bare minimum of pitance to those in need? Those returns are a pathetic disgrace to what he calls for.
I know you, and even me would be embarrased to have charitable contributions of such meager and pathetic amounts.
If he wants to play the "redistribution of wealth game" then he needs to start with himseld, other wise he is a complete and total fraud !
We see things differently in the Socialist Kings agenda, big deal!
one of us will learn a lesson in politics.
Keep on doing your thing, it shows that you care and are not apathetic!
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anne.reed
Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 09:10 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
Bambi wrote: David. You are a very intelligent man. A very competent businessman, from what little you have told me. You are also a risk taker. Based on what you post on here, I believe you do your homework to reach your decisions. But......
I "feel" based on what you post, that you are trying to protect your wealth...and rightly so. But you appear to fixated on the fear of taxation ruining your business perhaps, or possibly your lifestyle too.
What you said about paying taxes for schools, even though you have no children, is to be admired. Thank you. You are helping those young children become our leaders of tomorrow by doing so, so that is a great "sacrifice" on your part, and has not made you a poor man financially, but a wealthy man of character, in my opinion.
Try looking at this tax increase for those above $250k the same way. It is a sacrifice....not for those undeserving creeps you speak about, but for those whose's business and banking accounts are down to $0. Think of it like giving part of the "plenty" you have, to make productive Americans out of our school children. All this is for the rebuilding of our economy and of our Nation. We are a "failed" Enterprise right now, having come from a surplus during Clinton, to a unbelievable deficit during an incompetent Administration. It will cost all of us, as it has been doing even today via losing our jobs, cars and homes and borrowing power, and it will cost those who have the wealth too......until we can once again, rise above this "depression" and become wealthy and happy again....yourself included. It took 8 years to get to this point. It will take less time hopefully, to return to those days of contentment. It just depends on who is at the "helm."
Presidents in the past have asked the people to work with them as they attempt to bring us out of despair. I've experienced that first hand. Roosevelt, Hoover; both asked for sacrifice from those who have more, to help those who have nothing. Resistance existed then as it does today, so government had to intervene to make it happen.
Your wealth will be protected David and will increase under Obama.....but under McCain and Palin, who are novices in terms of economics, I believe we will fumble over a long period of time, till we are capable of rising to the cause. McCains policies are no different that Bush's. I have zilch confidence in him or his team....whoever they may be.
Thanks for the compliments. While I would be lying if I said that I don't want to pay more taxes than the very large sums I pay now both as a corporation and personally, I am not "fearful" of losing my "plenty" of wealth. I am a survivor and have a good mind for business. My fear is for the economy and the nation as a whole. I also fear that a hopeful American populus is being sold an empty bill of goods. The numbers just don't match the talking points.
You are right, my business will do just fine even if it gets taxed more heavily. However, the jobs I am still needing to create will have to wait, and some that are there now may have to go. You see my business relies on a lot of other small businesses. If they start to go, the cycle begins. I am not unique in the business world here.
These 'cuts' are not going to small business or even average Americans. They are going to the lowest tax brackets. The tax brackets that have people paying no taxes anyway. Obama now wants to send them checks! Only in the last 2 weeks, after intense scruteny from McCain on the issue, did he quietly change his plan to inlcude a work provision. So the original plan was to send checks to people who just want to stay at home. Sorry, this is socialism and wholesale welfare and it has no place in this country.
The fundamental difference between the candidates is that Obama wants to tax everyone to pay for his massively increased spending initiatives, while McCain proposes a growth strategy that grows the economy to provide additional revenue while at the same time attacking the spending side of the equation. If you still think Obama is only going after people over $250K, you've had WAY too much of the KoolAid.
Obama claims he is going to cut "programs that don't work" but hasn't named a SINGLE ONE. That's because he is telling people what they want to hear - sort of like the young Fidel Castro did with a very similar campaign strategy.
We could debate this for months and you would still hold on to the dream that he can actually deliver even a fraction of what he is promissing to American voters.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
Liberals claim that it doesn't matter who he associates with or supports. Are you sure about that?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b63bBCC2-yM&feature=related
Dear David:
Your hope is to limit personal and corporate taxation will actually be advanced under OBAMA, haven't' you considered the tax cuts proposed by Obama for those American businesses who create American jobs? It will be a substantial benefit to most small business owners and offset any tax relief on net income generated exceeding $250,000. Further, as incentive to these small businesses to grow their busineses, any capital gains on the sale of small business will be exempt from capital gains tax, allowing these successful entrepeneurs to reinvest all their profits on Americans right here in the homeland. Creating more jobs and prosperity that can substantially increase the potential for success at the small business level.
This is not a plan to re-destribute American weath from the middle class to the poor, the redistribution of wealth that OBama proposes will increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans and corporations who, along with many standing lobbyists, are currently under investigation for a myraid of of ethical and criminal activities on the Hill and Wall Street. The income tax exemption that Obama proposes will offer tax incentives to invest in America, not abroad and he will incentivize and reward corporations for their patriotic efforts (creation of American jobs), not for their ability to emcourage more economic bubbles and leave the middle class to repay their staggeringly excessive and ill gotten gains. Under the OBama plan, the small business owner will gain greater ground toward equalizing the playing field between "Mom and Pop" stores and their internationally franchised neighbors. At the current rate of decline, these small neighborhood stores are disappearing at a staggering rate. Just look at our own area, how may small businesses have been forced to close their doors for any number of reasons that the OBama plan thoughtfully addresses.
Your vote for McCain will tax the proposed $5,000 allowance for insurance benefits offered by employers, in theory, giving us all a raise to purchase adequate coverage. Sadly, most employers can't begin to offer comperable health care coverage for that modest sum, so the net effect will be more tax with waning services. This may not be important to you if you're young and healthy but your parents may find this plan inadequate. Your vote for McCain will insure that the politics which have contributed substantially to the bottom lines of huge diversified conglomerates, at the expense of the little guy, will only be exaggerated under McCain-Palin.
Make no mistake, David, just because your business had not yet suffered as a result of the failed policies of the Bush administration does not suggest that you'll be spared. In fact, your chances of success are considerably less than they were 8 years ago, before the Corporate market makers raped the American consumer and indentured us to our enemies. This must stop. This credit crisis is simply a precursor to many difficult times ahead. The depth of the housing crisis is yet to be fully realized. The stock market is more volatile than it's ever been and some suggest that fundamental changes in the typical ratios between certain components of our economy point to international market manipulation, indicating we are along way from the bottom of this downward spiral. The hard working Americans who purchase the goods and services your business provide have greatly decreased discretionary spending and if history has taught us anything, it's the knowledge that we better prepare for substantial inflation and reduced solvency of the American consumer as this situation plays out over the next year or two. There are many who would attribute these failings to a 2 year democratic majority in the Senate, or, who'll sit back and say "I told you so!"as we face the challenging times that lie ahead. Many will not doubt blame our future on the next president, whoever he may be. This is pure foolishness, it has taken decades to create this crisis and it will not be a speedy recovery as the financial pundits would have us believe.
Americans, take back the reins to this runaway country and put our best and brightest minds to work to minimize the job loss, the income and portfolio devaluation effecting all Americans, develop a responsibility exit strategy fpr our troops in Iraq, and end the culture of corruption and greed from the highest levels of government and the moguls of Wall Street.. Invest our tax dollars in educating our youth, providing all who are inclined to get a college education in exchange for equivalent community service. Invest in our crumbling infrastructure. Our need is great and the funds are now disbursed globally without adding a single American job. This has to stop!
Vote OBama
Regards,
Anne
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 09:09 pm |
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gk wrote: My confidence is in Obama's Plan, his intelligence and his Character.
You certainly can't argue with that.......he is a character for certain!!
This was done after an amendment to the Constitution, giving the "negro" the right to vote and other rights that white's enjoyed. But government failed to protect him. This is a White man's government with no Negro domination. This is still the mentality of many, and therefore Barack's biggest struggle in my opinion, of acquiring the highest office in the Country.
If all else fail......USE THE RACE CARD, PLAY TO PEOPLES GUILT!!!
They teach that in Liberal 101
First of all, let's understand what I am referring to as Character as per the Dictionary:
one of the attributes or features that make up and distinguish an individual
Now, second, the race card. Exploitation. Kind of what Jesse Helms did 20 years ago during his senate campaign with an ad showing a black man taking a white man's job? Now Gene. Do you really think I'm doing that? I'm just quoting from my research, not trying to instill fear or guilt in anyone. Are you feeling guilty?
Don't read my posts then if it makes you feel guilty. And you may call me a liberal or think I'm a liberal, but I'm really a centrist. Let's leave it at that. I don't need your psychological analysis to tell me who I am.
Last edited on Sat Nov 1st, 2008 09:10 pm by Bambi
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gk
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 08:52 pm |
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My confidence is in Obama's Plan, his intelligence and his Character.
You certainly can't argue with that.......he is a character for certain!!
This was done after an amendment to the Constitution, giving the "negro" the right to vote and other rights that white's enjoyed. But government failed to protect him. This is a White man's government with no Negro domination. This is still the mentality of many, and therefore Barack's biggest struggle in my opinion, of acquiring the highest office in the Country.
If all else fail......USE THE RACE CARD, PLAY TO PEOPLES GUILT!!!
They teach that in Liberal 101
Last edited on Sat Nov 1st, 2008 08:54 pm by gk
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 08:10 pm |
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Everything you are saying about Obama and the consequences of electing him, is what they said about Roosevelt. Calling him a socialist because he chose to bring his fellow Americans out of doom and gloom and starvation thru a more balanced effort. And poor blacks, mexicans and others of color who have been discriminated against for so many years, were a part of that salvation.
I saw a t shirt the other day that showed a picture of Obama "hanging" from a rope.
When my dad was a young kid, (My family is from Chicago) back around 1908, his family would take him to another small town outside of the City, lay down a blanket, put out the picnic and sit down to eat. There was entertainment provided, as there were many other white families at that Town's square. You know what the entertainment was? The lynching of a Black man.
This was done after an amendment to the Constitution, giving the "negro" the right to vote and other rights that white's enjoyed. But government failed to protect him. This is a White man's government with no Negro domination. This is still the mentality of many, and therefore Barack's biggest struggle in my opinion, of acquiring the highest office in the Country.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 07:07 pm |
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Bambi wrote: David. You are a very intelligent man. A very competent businessman, from what little you have told me. You are also a risk taker. Based on what you post on here, I believe you do your homework to reach your decisions. But......
I "feel" based on what you post, that you are trying to protect your wealth...and rightly so. But you appear to fixated on the fear of taxation ruining your business perhaps, or possibly your lifestyle too.
What you said about paying taxes for schools, even though you have no children, is to be admired. Thank you. You are helping those young children become our leaders of tomorrow by doing so, so that is a great "sacrifice" on your part, and has not made you a poor man financially, but a wealthy man of character, in my opinion.
Try looking at this tax increase for those above $250k the same way. It is a sacrifice....not for those undeserving creeps you speak about, but for those whose's business and banking accounts are down to $0. Think of it like giving part of the "plenty" you have, to make productive Americans out of our school children. All this is for the rebuilding of our economy and of our Nation. We are a "failed" Enterprise right now, having come from a surplus during Clinton, to a unbelievable deficit during an incompetent Administration. It will cost all of us, as it has been doing even today via losing our jobs, cars and homes and borrowing power, and it will cost those who have the wealth too......until we can once again, rise above this "depression" and become wealthy and happy again....yourself included. It took 8 years to get to this point. It will take less time hopefully, to return to those days of contentment. It just depends on who is at the "helm."
Presidents in the past have asked the people to work with them as they attempt to bring us out of despair. I've experienced that first hand. Roosevelt, Hoover; both asked for sacrifice from those who have more, to help those who have nothing. Resistance existed then as it does today, so government had to intervene to make it happen.
Your wealth will be protected David and will increase under Obama.....but under McCain and Palin, who are novices in terms of economics, I believe we will fumble over a long period of time, till we are capable of rising to the cause. McCains policies are no different that Bush's. I have zilch confidence in him or his team....whoever they may be.
Thanks for the compliments. While I would be lying if I said that I don't want to pay more taxes than the very large sums I pay now both as a corporation and personally, I am not "fearful" of losing my "plenty" of wealth. I am a survivor and have a good mind for business. My fear is for the economy and the nation as a whole. I also fear that a hopeful American populus is being sold an empty bill of goods. The numbers just don't match the talking points.
You are right, my business will do just fine even if it gets taxed more heavily. However, the jobs I am still needing to create will have to wait, and some that are there now may have to go. You see my business relies on a lot of other small businesses. If they start to go, the cycle begins. I am not unique in the business world here.
These 'cuts' are not going to small business or even average Americans. They are going to the lowest tax brackets. The tax brackets that have people paying no taxes anyway. Obama now wants to send them checks! Only in the last 2 weeks, after intense scruteny from McCain on the issue, did he quietly change his plan to inlcude a work provision. So the original plan was to send checks to people who just want to stay at home. Sorry, this is socialism and wholesale welfare and it has no place in this country.
The fundamental difference between the candidates is that Obama wants to tax everyone to pay for his massively increased spending initiatives, while McCain proposes a growth strategy that grows the economy to provide additional revenue while at the same time attacking the spending side of the equation. If you still think Obama is only going after people over $250K, you've had WAY too much of the KoolAid.
Obama claims he is going to cut "programs that don't work" but hasn't named a SINGLE ONE. That's because he is telling people what they want to hear - sort of like the young Fidel Castro did with a very similar campaign strategy.
We could debate this for months and you would still hold on to the dream that he can actually deliver even a fraction of what he is promissing to American voters.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
Liberals claim that it doesn't matter who he associates with or supports. Are you sure about that?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b63bBCC2-yM&feature=related
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 06:09 pm |
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DavidB wrote: Bambi wrote: Don't critize me for my feelings. Perhaps asking me why I feel that way would be more appropriate instead of using sarcasm. That just provokes...you know that feeling.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I see this as a huge problem with the way people vote. It's more of a popularity contest than a contest on the issues. Too many people vote their feelings and emotions rather than analyzing the facts and making informed decisions.
It is irresponsible to vote for someone solely on what they say in their speeches and what is posted on their web sites. It's our responsibility as voters to educate ourselves on the issues and vote on that basis. His tax plan is a recipe for disaster for this country and his assertion that he is only going to tax the wealthy is just a lie. Repealling the Bush cuts will impact each and every one of the 60% of Americans that even pay taxes. I wonder how people will 'feel' about that when they see it reflected in their net wages. "But he said he wasn't going to....". Therein lies the gotcha. Even Barack and Biden can't keep it straight. 250, then 200, then 150. Richardson yesterday even lowered it more to 120. Back in 2007 Barack said that anyone making over 97,000 is "upper class" or "rich".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SavgJlBLA
He's coming to tax all of us and if he just called it like it is, he would be worthy of more respect. He has dangled this carrot for everyone that just doesn't exist.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
Forego the hype and the empty campaign promises and vote based on the facts that have been presented.
David. You are a very intelligent man. A very competent businessman, from what little you have told me. You are also a risk taker. Based on what you post on here, I believe you do your homework to reach your decisions. But......
I "feel" based on what you post, that you are trying to protect your wealth...and rightly so. But you appear to fixated on the fear of taxation ruining your business perhaps, or possibly your lifestyle too.
What you said about paying taxes for schools, even though you have no children, is to be admired. Thank you. You are helping those young children become our leaders of tomorrow by doing so, so that is a great "sacrifice" on your part, and has not made you a poor man financially, but a wealthy man of character, in my opinion.
Try looking at this tax increase for those above $250k the same way. It is a sacrifice....not for those undeserving creeps you speak about, but for those whose's business and banking accounts are down to $0. Think of it like giving part of the "plenty" you have, to make productive Americans out of our school children. All this is for the rebuilding of our economy and of our Nation. We are a "failed" Enterprise right now, having come from a surplus during Clinton, to a unbelievable deficit during an incompetent Administration. It will cost all of us, as it has been doing even today via losing our jobs, cars and homes and borrowing power, and it will cost those who have the wealth too......until we can once again, rise above this "depression" and become wealthy and happy again....yourself included. It took 8 years to get to this point. It will take less time hopefully, to return to those days of contentment. It just depends on who is at the "helm."
Presidents in the past have asked the people to work with them as they attempt to bring us out of despair. I've experienced that first hand. Roosevelt, Hoover; both asked for sacrifice from those who have more, to help those who have nothing. Resistance existed then as it does today, so government had to intervene to make it happen.
Your wealth will be protected David and will increase under Obama.....but under McCain and Palin, who are novices in terms of economics, I believe we will fumble over a long period of time, till we are capable of rising to the cause. McCains policies are no different that Bush's. I have zilch confidence in him or his team....whoever they may be.
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 05:48 pm |
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gsbill wrote: I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure.
The US is broke...no money..where is the money coming from? We cant pay the interest on the money we owe and we continue to borrow.
Bill. I would like to help you understand how we are going to rise above this "sludge" we are stuck in. My illustrations may help a tad or it may confuse you more. It (economics) is very complex, as I discovered thru my research. Devaluations; Bank Holidays; New Deal; War; Subsidies; personalities....all entered to form the equation. The easiest way to understand "how" is to compare our current problems with how we rose out of the Great Depression (which incidentally was a world wide depression), as we were broke back then; banks had failed; stores closed, and all the other negative attributes of a failed economy. This is an excerpt from an encyclopedia source.
Monetary expansion stimulated spending by lowering interest rates and making credit more widely available. It also created expectations of inflation, rather than deflation, thereby giving potential borrowers greater confidence that their wages and profits would be sufficient to cover their loan payments if they chose to borrow. One sign that monetary expansion stimulated recovery in the United States by encouraging borrowing was that consumer and business spending on interest-sensitive items such as cars, trucks, and machinery rose well before consumer spending on services.
Now that Bailout money is supposed to stimulate the economy. Has it? Where did that come from, if we are running a deficit? Where did we get $700 billion dollars, if we are indeed broke? As I see it, at this point in time, those billions has only encouraged spending and growth amongst the Wall Street Corporations, encouraging them and stimulating their greed again. We can only hope it reaches us, so we can "become" as confident as those guys on Wall Street. It sure increased their spending, as they have put millions away for bonus's. One reason for the 1930's slow road to recovery, is because the banks "horded" the money, instead of circulating it. Until confidence returns, we will see no positive effects on business and consumer sentiments.
Now what happens when we run deficits? Well it appears that we just increase the monetary supply. And how do we do that? That also appears that we print more money; we close programs; we reduce outgo, which reduces employment. THe world is in the hole, so how can we borrow the funds?
But, we're back to how our "feelings" control outcomes. The Depression caused people to look to government to pull them out of that black hole. Not business people as they resented the government intervention, but the vast majority of the population....the once middleclass and now destitute, were the ones asking for help. Humans tend to look for a messiah when they are dying by starvation or any other ailment that is strangling the life out of them. These people looked to our government (messiah) and our government answered them via expansion of government services and opportunities. Enter on behalf of the elderly: Social Security. Enter for the unemployed: Unemployment compensation. Enter fair pay: The Wagner Act which created Unions.
Despite rising wages overall, income distribution was unequal. Look familiar? Gaps in income had actually increased since the 1890s. The 1% of the population at the very top of the pyramid had incomes 650% greater than those 11% of Americans at the bottom of the pyramid. The tremendous concentration of wealth in the hands of a few meant that continued economic prosperity was dependent on the high investment and luxury spending of the wealthy. However, both the high spending and high investment of the time, much like today, were susceptible to economic fluctuations; they were much less stable than people's expenses on daily necessities like food, clothing, and shelter. Therefore, when the market crashed the economy tumbled.
These people are living off of public relief funds....1936
Now; enter the messiah of the Time:
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882-1945) was President of the United States from 1933 to 1945, the only President to be reelected three times. As Governor of New York (1929-1932), he ran for President by promising a "New Deal" for the American people. Relief programs, measures to increase employment and to aid industrial and agricultural recovery from the Great Depression, marked Roosevelt's time in office. Americans who lived through the Depression had passionate feelings about Roosevelt. He has been both venerated as a national savior and vilified as a Socialist who craved greater federal power. He made the people feel more secure and gave them a sense of Hope. And then came the results..... Jobs Jobs Jobs.
Having read all of this material, it keeps going back to consumer confidence. If the people are happy; if they feel safe; if they are enjoying the fruits of their labor, and if we have a Leader and Team that understands history and the complexities of how economies work (as most of us don't), then the people feel confident and you will have a thriving economy....and it will become contageous and you will have a thriving "world" economy. The depressed states of minds of our World are bringing us down in my opinion. We need a Leader that will rise to the cause of releasing us from that state of mind by providing leadership that defines success for all. We need to be inspired that our next Leader/Mentor will have studied our problems enough that He will feel and demonstrate confidence in making our Country rise once again, to being the Greatest Country in the World.
My confidence is in Obama's Plan, his intelligence and his Character.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 05:12 pm |
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Obama can certainly talk the talk about wealth redistribution. He might also have more credibility if he himself were a more charitable person. His tax returns, however tell a much different story:
Only after their income skyrockets in 2005 from book sales do they start making donations. See, Obama sees fit to redistribute your income, just not his own.
Biden's contributions were even worse:
Adjusted
Gross Income Charity
1998 $215,432 $195
1999 $210,797 $120
2000 $219,953 $360
2001 $220,712 $360
2002 $227,811 $260
2003 $231,375 $260
2004 $234,271 $380
2005 $321,379 $380
2006 $248,459 $380
2007 $319,853 $995
Total $2,450,042 $3,690
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-12-biden-financial_N.htm
By contrast, both McCain and Palin have both donated considerably more. Now tell me who is looking out for people in need.
http://bolsonon.wordpress.com/2008/10/18/which-candidate-gives-it-up-more-you-might-be-surprised/
http://philanthropy.com/news/updates/index.php?id=5900
I guess Obama and Biden think it's much easier to give away our money than it is their own.
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No1SphL
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 04:42 pm |
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| Why just research one side? If you completely research the issues and candidates you would not vote for the inexperienced Obama
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 04:42 pm |
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Bambi wrote: Don't critize me for my feelings. Perhaps asking me why I feel that way would be more appropriate instead of using sarcasm. That just provokes...you know that feeling.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I see this as a huge problem with the way people vote. It's more of a popularity contest than a contest on the issues. Too many people vote their feelings and emotions rather than analyzing the facts and making informed decisions.
It is irresponsible to vote for someone solely on what they say in their speeches and what is posted on their web sites. It's our responsibility as voters to educate ourselves on the issues and vote on that basis. His tax plan is a recipe for disaster for this country and his assertion that he is only going to tax the wealthy is just a lie. Repealling the Bush cuts will impact each and every one of the 60% of Americans that even pay taxes. I wonder how people will 'feel' about that when they see it reflected in their net wages. "But he said he wasn't going to....". Therein lies the gotcha. Even Barack and Biden can't keep it straight. 250, then 200, then 150. Richardson yesterday even lowered it more to 120. Back in 2007 Barack said that anyone making over 97,000 is "upper class" or "rich".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SavgJlBLA
He's coming to tax all of us and if he just called it like it is, he would be worthy of more respect. He has dangled this carrot for everyone that just doesn't exist.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5051118.ece
Forego the hype and the empty campaign promises and vote based on the facts that have been presented.
Last edited on Sat Nov 1st, 2008 04:44 pm by DavidB
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Bambi
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 03:43 pm |
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DavidB wrote: Bambi wrote: I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure.
Well as long as you feel that way, I guess all will be just fine. Wow.
Don't critize me for my feelings. Perhaps asking me why I feel that way would be more appropriate instead of using sarcasm. That just provokes...you know that feeling.
Those "feelings" about Obama come from studying the issues and watching the candidates in action, and listening to conversations and speeches and reading about issues and what the people want and what the promises are for the many and not just the few.
Sorry I can't state what my feelings are about McCains' proposed accomplishments as I have yet to hear them. There are two things on his mind that he constantly mentions: Taxes and Joe the Plumber. WOW
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starleen
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 06:34 am |
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What would an Obama presidency look like? Maybe like Raial Odinga's goals for Kenya (Obama's cousin? Maybe he hasn't abandoned all his Kenyan family). Obama raised close to a million dollars for Odinga's failed Kenyan presidential campaign, after which the country was wracked by post-election violence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6eVVVKFHu0
http://iperceive.net/obama-odinga-the-kenyan-jihad/
"....Odinga’s explicit plan to turn Kenya into an Al Qaeda terrorist incubator. A close analysis of Odinga’s MoU with Sheikh Abdullahi Abdi shows that — if Odinga had been elected as Kenyan president in the fall of 2007 — he would have made it impossible under Kenyan law for “any Muslim arrested for or suspected of Terrorism” to be tried anywhere but Kenya under Kenyan law."
Of all the suspect relationships of Obama, this one takes the cake.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 03:52 am |
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This is an excellent article that spells it out clear as day. Work the exercise with your own figures if you don't believe him.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 02:23 am |
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Bambi wrote: I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure.
Well as long as you feel that way, I guess all will be just fine. Wow.
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DavidB
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Posted: Sat Nov 1st, 2008 02:21 am |
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anne.reed wrote: David, David, David, the social security cap is such an insignificant portion of the entire tax package.
Anne, Anne, Anne. It might be 'insignificant' to you, but it certainly isn't to me either as a taxpayer or an employer.
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gsbill
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 11:40 pm |
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I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure.
The US is broke...no money..where is the money coming from? We cant pay the interest on the money we owe and we continue to borrow.
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 11:14 pm |
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| I can vaguely remember way back, when I was politically naive also, but I grew out of it, and I expect someday you will also...........maybe
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 10:47 pm |
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I'm not talking about the document on his website. Did you actually read the proof I provided or just dismiss it like everything else? Factcheck.org and several reporters have actually held the document in their hands. They verified the raised seal. They verified the documents that the state of Hawaii has in their records showing Obama was born in Hawaii. So are the people that control the records in the state of Hawaii in on the conspiracy too?
I'm not gonna get into personal attacks but I'd encourage you to step back for a second. You've charged a presidential candidate with conspiring with terrorists and being born outside the United States. Oh, and he's a communist drug dealer too. See where I might think that's not exactly a rational thought process?
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 10:31 pm |
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The document that Obama has on his website can be easily forged by ANY nitwit who know digital manipulation. That Document is not "proof" and you have not shown "indisputible proof to no one! Because Obama says it, does not mean it's so.
Again.....you DO NOT know if he is a citizen or not. Neither do I. Why is his grandmother so sure that she witnessed his birth in Kenya??
I yeah, I forgot.......the vast right wing conspiracy. His granny was just being influenced by the mind numbing effects of the GOP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QdyLOUHz-A
Last edited on Fri Oct 31st, 2008 10:40 pm by gk
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 10:22 pm |
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| DS, truth is, I do know he's a US citizen because this issue has been extensively looked into but the media and independent non partisan organizations. His birth certificate has been examined and declared a legitimate document by experts. I provided that proof to you already. You CHOOSE to ignore it. But please don't act like you have any case to make because you don't. If Berg had a case, he'd have won it in a court by now. But instead he doesn't and hasn't. Now the supreme court has the case, I'm confident they'll reject it because it's total bs. I expect at that point you'll drop it and retract your bogus claims.
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:52 pm |
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I am so saturated with politics, I think I am going to either explode and have a nervous breakdown. Let's get this thing over with so we can go back to some kind of normalcy. I know the history of these guys now better than they do. And I know the fallacies about them too.
I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure. He already has surround himself with his surrogates and advisors, preparing himself to enter the Oval Office and start governing. The middleclass will benefit hugely, as will the rich, as it will be their companies bidding on the work, and jobs will be created within 90 days. Who is going to pay for that? All of us. Who will pay the most? The same ones that have been paying more with our progressive tax scale...the rich....the very rich.
If McCain is elected, we won't have those programs (he promises to suspend them for now and any new ones) nor will we have the infrastructure improvments, as I haven't heard him ever address that need or how he will accomplish it. Taxes. The rich will pay less; the middleclass more. We will remain is a state of "suspension" until McCain the Maverick can figure all this out. I have no idea who he surround himself with other than Palin and Lieberman, or who his advisors are.
Well check back
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:50 pm |
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naw....I kinda like bigshoe. It fits better.
I don't know if he is born in America or not, but the point is neither do you.
None of us know for sure, his granmother says Kenya somebody says something else. But for ObamaCon to let it gog on and on to this point of going to the suppreme court seems awfully d**n silly. All he has to do is open the file and let the lawyers look into it, buit he has obstructed this at great cost.
It makes no sense for him to continue this way. YOu have no more knowledge of him being a legal citizen than I do. LEt the courts decide! That is Obamas choice at this point
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Bambi
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:48 pm |
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I am so saturated with politics, I think I am going to either explode and have a nervous breakdown. Let's get this thing over with so we can go back to some kind of normalcy. I know the history of these guys now better than they do. And I know the fallacies about them too.
I feel that if Obama is elected, we are going to have jobs galore via government programs and the rebuilding of our infrastructure. He already has surround himself with his surrogates and advisors, preparing himself to enter the Oval Office and start governing. The middleclass will benefit hugely, as will the rich, as it will be their companies bidding on the work, and jobs will be created within 90 days. Who is going to pay for that? All of us. Who will pay the most? The same ones that have been paying more with our progressive tax scale...the rich....the very rich.
If McCain is elected, we won't have those programs (he promises to suspend them for now and any new ones) nor will we have the infrastructure improvments, as I haven't heard him ever address that need or how he will accomplish it. Taxes. The rich will pay less; the middleclass more. We will remain is a state of "suspension" until McCain the Maverick can figure all this out. I have no idea who he surround himself with other than Palin and Lieberman, or who his advisors are.
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:41 pm |
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gk wrote: give what up bigshoe?
Give up my belief that ObamaNation is the worst possible choice for Americans to make! He himself and his sidekick have openly told you to your face what to expect from him but you let it fly right over your head. You pretend not to notice. His bizaar campaign of associationg himself with some kind of new Messiah has you all giddy with excitement, which clearly closes your minds to what he says
Nice photos. I'll clarify my question...when the supreme court rejects Berg's case, and remember this is a Supreme Court with 5 conservative justices, will you then give up your nonsensical arguements that Obama was not born in the United States? Or will the Supreme Court be involved in a conspiracy?
Nice photos of Obama by the way. They look very presidential. For a guy that supposedly thinks he's a messiah, he sure jokes about it a lot. And GK, you can just call me Aaron. You can stop getting my user name wrong on purpose, ok. It's cute but kinda pointless.
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QCVillager
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:26 pm |
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anne.reed wrote: DavidB wrote:
Did anyone catch the text printed on the placards people were holding during Obama's speech tonight?
Most of the cards read "Change we need". On the back of those cards was written "Cambio". For those of you who don't know, this is Spanish for change. Apparently this is so the illegal aliens who can't speak, read, or write English can read his message and join his cause to spread some wealth to them. This is a large contingent of his following, so I guess it makes sense.
Then I saw several cards that read "African Americans for Obama". Could you possibly get any more racist than that? What if at a McCain speech there were placards that read "White people for McCain". Can you imagine?
These placards weren't picket signs created by audience members, they were printed by his campaign.
Despicable.
Or, what if their were attendees calling for the murder or decapitation of a candidate. There's plenty of ignorance and evil to go around. Don't give any party the exclusive on either.
agreed - neither party's supporters (even though SOME from each camp have tried valiantly) have succeeded in cornering the market on ignorance and even evil.Last edited on Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:27 pm by QCVillager
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gk
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 09:11 pm |
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give what up bigshoe?
Give up my belief that ObamaNation is the worst possible choice for Americans to make! He himself and his sidekick have openly told you to your face what to expect from him but you let it fly right over your head. You pretend not to notice. His bizaar campaign of associationg himself with some kind of new Messiah has you all giddy with excitement, which clearly closes your minds to what he says
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anne.reed
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:55 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
Did anyone catch the text printed on the placards people were holding during Obama's speech tonight?
Most of the cards read "Change we need". On the back of those cards was written "Cambio". For those of you who don't know, this is Spanish for change. Apparently this is so the illegal aliens who can't speak, read, or write English can read his message and join his cause to spread some wealth to them. This is a large contingent of his following, so I guess it makes sense.
Then I saw several cards that read "African Americans for Obama". Could you possibly get any more racist than that? What if at a McCain speech there were placards that read "White people for McCain". Can you imagine?
These placards weren't picket signs created by audience members, they were printed by his campaign.
Despicable.
Or, what if their were attendees calling for the murder or decapitation of a candidate. There's plenty of ignorance and evil to go around. Don't give any party the exclusive on either.
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anne.reed
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:53 pm |
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DavidB wrote:
Joe_the_Plumber wrote: Oh, just so you know, Obama's plan defines 'rich' anyone making over $90,000 a year, because that's when his FICA tax cap comes off and you start paying an addition 7% of tax on each and every dollary you earn above the cap!
It's even worse if you own your own business because the company has to match the 7.x%. It's more like a 15% hit.
David, David, David, the social security cap is such an insignificant portion of the entire tax package.
From the IRS site: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p517/ar01.html
What's New
Increased earnings subject to social security. For 2007, the maximum wages and self-employment income subject to social security tax (6.2%) is increased to $97,500. All wages and self-employment income are subject to Medicare tax (1.45%).
I know little about aircraft so I defer to your expertise in that area but trust me, the above argument is prepostrous as existing taxes already exceed the limits you have recounted above.
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:39 pm |
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gk wrote: Thursday, October 30, 2008
Berg to U.S. Supreme Court this Afternoon
http://www.americasright.com/2008/10/berg-to-us-supreme-court-this-afternoon.html And when he loses there, will you give it up?
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TheBigShow
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:37 pm |
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QCVillager wrote: Anne, when your side has nothing to talk about, you talk about nothing. Right now the right's focus is to smear and distract. It almost worked in 2004, they're hoping it works better this time. Just let em talk, there's no sense trying to talk logic to these people. I've shown how some of the things they are posting are outright lies, so what do they do? Post more of the stuff from the same people. They don't want to know the truth and if they did, they don't care. It's not McCain, it's just Republicans/conservatives in general they don't like. If (insert any Republican name here) was the candidate, they'd be tearing that person up too. Doesn't matter who it is, they don't care. Classy Jeff but perhaps you'd be interested to know I was intending on voting for McCain in 2000, oops did I completely derail your theory? I vote for the best candidate and a few of the candidates that happened to be republicans got my vote for state positions. Take a look at who's talking about what Jeff. How many of us who have clearly stated they are voting for Obama have stated that McCain is a terrorist? I have tried to stay on the actual issues and provide some balance to the over the top accusations that have been put forth in this forum. I have seen the same come from Bambi and a few other people. We try to clear up the record and the second we do, someone else chimes in with other opinion articles and utter nonsense.
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DavidB
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Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 08:36 pm |
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anne.reed wrote: DavidB wrote:
anne.reed wrote: When the primary rationale for a McCain/Palin vote is a long history of cheap shots and character assassination by association I can clearly see how some of the "Joe the Plumber" crowd might be deceived, but, for guys like you I just don't get it.
The primary rationale is that Obama's economic plan will send this country into depression. Leftists love to ignore this fundamental truth that is supported by the vast majority of economic scholars. The fact that he is a Marxist, a racist, a liar, and a hypocrite is just icing on the cake.
I'm sorry, Anne, but a persons character is very important to me when it | | |
