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> Arizona Public Forums > Queen Creek Public Issues Forum > Nonprofit groups may become town tenants

Nonprofit groups may become town tenants
 
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starleen
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Joined: Wed Dec 26th, 2007
Location: Coolidge
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:16 am
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GSBill wrote: Barnes mentioned something thats really good about Queen Creek. You can always get a face to face meeting with nearly anybody you want to talk to..from the mayor to our council members to our town manager and everybody in between. I hope we never lose that aspect of our local government. Anybody posting can easily get a face to face. Works way better than quoting the news when debating issues. I suggest taking advantage of offers to meet and discuss issues.
I made the face to face at the voting booth (when I lived in TOQC last year). I intend for the elected persons to go and do the majority will, so I don't NEED to waste my time and their's with face to face diatribe that isn't a part of the record and will likely lead nowhere. That's part of what a representative government does. You think the council wants 10,000 town people clamoring at the gates for a "face to face?" We've all got better ways to spend time.

starleen
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:12 am
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"I will tell you who I think I am. I am the guy that has the guts to call people out when they are being short sided."



"I am not saying this as a Council Member; I am saying it as a Citizen of Queen Creek, a Tax Payer and a Veteran."

"Kind of like the School district didn’t have sex with students a teacher did, or the church didn’t molest a child a preacher did. The class of 2003 didn’t do drugs some students did."

As a council member and an elected official you are crossing a line here. You are abusing your position of influence on a public forum, and as an elected official you can't have it both ways. Your job as a council member is to protect the interests of the town, not to advance the interests of "social groups" or non-profits or whatever. And playing the "Veteran" card to advance the issue is really sort of cheesy. (I'm a veteran also, and many in my family are.) Veterans choose to serve and without strings attached like the right to 8 acres for a clubhouse. I personally resent the guilt trip strategy.

CrimeFighter
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:07 am
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This is getting out of control.   Why does our town continue to give away the assets that are owned by the citizenry?  8.7 acres?  Why would a single group need anywhere near that much land.  Or is that simply a ploy so that we think it a bargain when the town only gives away 1 or 2 acres of our parkland?  These are million dollar mistakes that the town is making on our dime.

GSBill
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Location: Congratulations San Tan Valley
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:06 am
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Barnes mentioned something thats really good about Queen Creek. You can always get a face to face meeting with nearly anybody you want to talk to..from the mayor to our council members to our town manager and everybody in between. I hope we never lose that aspect of our local government. Anybody posting can easily get a face to face. Works way better than quoting the news when debating issues. I suggest taking advantage of offers to meet and discuss issues.

halos02
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona USA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:15 am
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I will address your other coments when I have more time.

halos02
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:12 am
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I don't have any idea who you think you are, I voted for you. Regrettably now, since I have seen too many times where you treat the public with disrespect and contempt! Learned my lesson Mr. Barnes, never again.

I will tell you who I think I am.  I am the guy that has the guts to call people out when they are being short sided. 

I am glad you voted for me, this post is not about what I do as a Council Member, it’s about what I do as a citizen.  The reason you have seen my name on so many things about The American Legion is because I started the Post in Queen Creek and was the Commander for three years.  If you look around you will see my name associated with a lot of things in Queen Creek.  I am a doer, not someone that sits around and complains about the way things are done, if I don’t like something at least I can say I did something to make a difference.

As far as you not meeting with me, it’s not because you are afraid I would be disrespectful to you it’s because you don’t have the guts.  I said I would meet you with a bunch of people if you wanted so I wouldn’t know who you were.  I will meet with anyone that would like to learn about something before making a judgment on it, or teach me something so I can make a sound judgment.

I am sick of hearing people say “I voted for you and I am so sorry that I did”.  YOU RUN THEN.  Or better than that have me removed, but that would take you coming out from behind your computer and actually doing something.

As far as disrespect and contempt.  Yes, I have it for people that hide behind a screen names and won’t look someone in the eye when they have a problem with them or say stupid things like “I voted for you and I am sorry, lesson learned.”

I have called GSBill out and he has done the same to me, we sat down and had lunch and I don’t believe there was any disrespect or contempt, we both learned things and look at him as a friend now. The point is, he met with me face to face and we spoke about some issues.  They didn’t all go as planned, but we met and talked.

 

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 10:09 pm
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halos02 wrote:


Queen Creek Councilman Craig Barnes says the time is now for the town to facilitate volunteer help for town operations, events and promotions. "It would save the town millions of dollars," Councilman Barnes said of the town using nonprofit organizations for events and promotions. "Most holiday (events) are done in other towns with some kind of nonprofit, but Queen Creek would rather spend the money and pay for it, which doesn’t make sense to me.


How big is the town budget? In newspaper it said around 20 million. How much do we spend from the town on charity or stuff that nonprofit does? Are you saying we spend millions on charity? If so, I want every one of you fired.

Last edited on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 10:10 pm by orchardranchres

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 10:05 pm
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halos02 wrote: May I shed some light on this?  Valid points made but where in that article did it mention The American Legion by name?  In the article from June 12,th Tribune, I posted the link http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/140421It didn’t, it says “NON PROFITS”!  I didn’t bring anything to the council about The American Legion; it was the Commander of the American Legion that brought it up.  Mr. Barnes, look at all kinds of articles with your name and the American Legion in it for the past four years or longer. You have always been angling to get the American Legion taxpayer land. Now you tell us 8.7 acres instead of 7.

The Legion didn’t bad mouth the town, some of the members did.  Kind of like the School district didn’t have sex with students a teacher did, or the church didn’t molest a child a preacher did.  The class of 2003 didn’t do drugs some students did.  Get the point?   The people that bad mouthed the town has started up a new American Legion Post  called San Tan Foothills Post 97 and are very close to getting land and a building for their post.
Interesting that the same names from the articles from a couple years ago are asking for 8.7 acres of taxpayer park land for basically for free for their Private Social Club.

My husband can be in the S.A.L. Sons of American Legion. They won't let me be in it as a female. Nice!  SONS it says SONS!  Can girls be in BOY Scouts?  Can boys be in GIRL Scouts NO

"You young lady can go sit at the little girls table", the auxiliary. That’s why they the women came up with it, so they could be a part of it too.


If your husband can be in the SAL then you may go as a family to any Legion Post in the world.  Yes, you could be in the Auxiliary.  Kind of like if you golfed, you could be in the LPGA not the PGA.

 If you want to be in the SONS of the American Legion you will have to get a sex change.

Do you know what the Legion has planned for that section of West Park?  I think NO.  You’re talking out the side of your head.  Get a clue before you spew!  I don't have any idea who you think you are, I voted for you. Regrettably now, since I have seen too many times where you treat the public with disrespect and contempt! Learned my lesson Mr. Barnes, never again.

Members of a relatively new American Legion post assumed their military service entitled them to a donation of land from a future Queen Creek park to build a new meeting hall.
 

I don’t believe for a second that those words have ever have come out of a veterans mouth.  There are no names mentioned in that article referring to someone saying that therefore I believe that that is the opinion of the person writing the article.

American Legion posts are private social clubs, with the authority to exclude people who don’t meet their standards or membership rules. It would be unseemly for any government to use tax money to obtain and turn over land for a meeting place that most taxpayers never would be allowed to use.

FYI, There are thousands of American Legion Post in this country that are in Town/City buildings and on Town/City land and even more things done with tax payers money that most tax payers will never use. You are asking for 8.7 acres of prime park land that WILL be used. That we have planned to be wonderful and you want to put a Private Social Club in it. This isn't land that will serve no other purpose. If it was, I would say the town should sell it for the correct value, not give it away. They already gave away land to the post office, but at least that isnt a private social club.

I am not saying this as a Council Member; I am saying it as a Citizen of Queen Creek, a Tax Payer and a Veteran. It doesnt work that way Mr. Barnes, you have the authority to give away our park land to a private social club and so you cant be a citizen on this. You were already quoted in the newspaper as Councilman Barnes.

 

If you would like to come out from hiding behind your pen name, I would love to meet with you or a large group of you and your friends to tell you what I was told.  I could even ask the Commander of Post 129 if he would join us.
I am sure you would love to know so you could disrespect me in person or worse. No way.

Here is my info

Cell phone # 602-469-1225

Email pastcommandercraig@gmail.com

Meet with me, get the real facts then say anything you would like, just state facts.

I look forward to seeing or talking to you.

And tell your father and father-in-law that I said “Thank you for you service”

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 09:50 pm
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halos02 wrote: GSBill wrote: orchardranchres wrote:
I can read GSBill. Councilman Barnes is proposing that we give away 7 acres of West Park to a PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB.

 

By the way, The American Legion would like 8.7 acres.  I dont think they will be building 1 great big building, do you?

It said in the newspaper that they wanted 7 acres. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/140421  You say 8.7 acres. What do you know that the rest of us dont? Other than the fact that these are to be beautiful park lands that you are trying to get for a Private Social Club as the newspaper opinion said.

halos02
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Joined: Thu Jan 10th, 2008
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona USA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 03:05 pm
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GSBill wrote: orchardranchres wrote:
I can read GSBill. Councilman Barnes is proposing that we give away 7 acres of West Park to a PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB.

 

By the way, The American Legion would like 8.7 acres.  I dont think they will be building 1 great big building, do you?

halos02
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Joined: Thu Jan 10th, 2008
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona USA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 03:01 pm
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May I shed some light on this?  Valid points made but where in that article did it mention The American Legion by name?  It didn’t, it says “NON PROFITS”!  I didn’t bring anything to the council about The American Legion; it was the Commander of the American Legion that brought it up.  The Legion didn’t bad mouth the town, some of the members did.  Kind of like the School district didn’t have sex with students a teacher did, or the church didn’t molest a child a preacher did.  The class of 2003 didn’t do drugs some students did.  Get the point?   The people that bad mouthed the town has started up a new American Legion Post  called San Tan Foothills Post 97 and are very close to getting land and a building for their post.

My husband can be in the S.A.L. Sons of American Legion. They won't let me be in it as a female. Nice!  SONS it says SONS!  Can girls be in BOY Scouts?  Can boys be in GIRL Scouts NO

"You young lady can go sit at the little girls table", the auxiliary. That’s why they the women came up with it, so they could be a part of it too.


If your husband can be in the SAL then you may go as a family to any Legion Post in the world.  Yes, you could be in the Auxiliary.  Kind of like if you golfed, you could be in the LPGA not the PGA.

 If you want to be in the SONS of the American Legion you will have to get a sex change.

Do you know what the Legion has planned for that section of West Park?  I think NO.  You’re talking out the side of your head.  Get a clue before you spew!

Members of a relatively new American Legion post assumed their military service entitled them to a donation of land from a future Queen Creek park to build a new meeting hall.
 

I don’t believe for a second that those words have ever have come out of a veterans mouth.  There are no names mentioned in that article referring to someone saying that therefore I believe that that is the opinion of the person writing the article.

American Legion posts are private social clubs, with the authority to exclude people who don’t meet their standards or membership rules. It would be unseemly for any government to use tax money to obtain and turn over land for a meeting place that most taxpayers never would be allowed to use.

FYI, There are thousands of American Legion Post in this country that are in Town/City buildings and on Town/City land and even more things done with tax payers money that most tax payers will never use.

I am not saying this as a Council Member; I am saying it as a Citizen of Queen Creek, a Tax Payer and a Veteran.

 

If you would like to come out from hiding behind your pen name, I would love to meet with you or a large group of you and your friends to tell you what I was told.  I could even ask the Commander of Post 129 if he would join us.

Here is my info

Cell phone # 602-469-1225

Email pastcommandercraig@gmail.com

Meet with me, get the real facts then say anything you would like, just state facts.

I look forward to seeing or talking to you.

And tell your father and father-in-law that I said “Thank you for you service”

GSBill
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Joined: Sat Apr 4th, 2009
Location: Congratulations San Tan Valley
Posts: 433
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 02:05 am
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orchardranchres wrote:
I can read GSBill. Councilman Barnes is proposing that we give away 7 acres of West Park to a PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB. Same thing the American Legion proposed before to QC and to Pinal county too. QC said no, then Legion bad mouthed QC. Legion went to Pinal county and they wouldn't give them free land either. Sandie Smith was going to find gernerous private land owner.

You are right we shouldn't give land to post office, but that is done. At least the post office is for everyone. Legion is for a few.

The Legion is a private social club for members only. I cannot be in the S.A.L. GSBill. My husband can though. I am not a veteran. My husband is not a veteran either. Both of our fathers are veterans. My husband can be in the S.A.L. Sons of American Legion. They won't let me be in it as a female. Nice!

"You young lady can go sit at the little girls table", the auxilliary.
Q.C. correct to not hand park land to Legion post Tribune
January 28, 2008 - 10:53PM
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Members of a relatively new American Legion post assumed their military service entitled them to a donation of land from a future Queen Creek park to build a new meeting hall.
But town officials believed it was wrong to hand over a parcel purchased by Queen Creek taxpayers and intended to be public space for a personal and private use. So now these veterans are accusing Queen Creek of failing to respect the post and its members.
Their bad-mouthing is unreasonable, as Queen Creek is looking out for the interests of the entire community instead of one special group. Tribune writer Sarah Boggan reported Thursday that the Duane Ellsworth American Legion Post 129 is searching for a permanent home. Its members approached Queen Creek about setting aside land for a new building in one of the town’s next five parks.
Post members describe the idea as a way for the community to give back to veterans who risked their lives serving their country.
But a city’s purchase of private land for park space, with the implicit understanding that the government could condemn the property if needed, should carry a high expectation that the final use will potentially benefit everyone.
American Legion posts are private social clubs, with the authority to exclude people who don’t meet their standards or membership rules. It would be unseemly for any government to use tax money to obtain and turn over land for a meeting place that most taxpayers never would be allowed to use.
These same veterans are praising the assistance they are now receiving from Pinal County officials including board Supervisor Sandie Smith, D-District 2, Boggan reported. But Smith hasn’t proposed the county hand over public land for an American Legion post. She’s searching for a generous private landowner to donate something.
That’s the appropriate way for the Duane Ellsworth post members to get some help if the post can’t afford to buy a site on its own.



Go talk to Barnes..The article which you obviously can read does not elaborate. Arguing with me and bringing up the dead median issue yet again does you and your opinion absolutely no good.

Let it go already for goodness sakes! The world has moved on and you remain stuck on me and the QC median issue.

GSBill
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 02:00 am
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orchardranchres wrote:
GSBill wrote:

I'd much rather have taxpayer land used for purposes that help the entire community.

Like the post office, not like the median. You have a double standard.


Wrong.

GSBill
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:57 am
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orchardranchres wrote:
Speaking of benefiting the few, the proud, the special interests, we could give them the $80,000 or however much from the median fund.


Take that up with your town's citizen committees and your elected officials.

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:56 am
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GSBill wrote:

I'd much rather have taxpayer land used for purposes that help the entire community.

Like the post office, not like the median. You have a double standard.

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:52 am
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Speaking of benefiting the few, the proud, the special interests, we could give them the $80,000 or however much from the median fund.

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:47 am
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I can read GSBill. Councilman Barnes is proposing that we give away 7 acres of West Park to a PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB. Same thing the American Legion proposed before to QC and to Pinal county too. QC said no, then Legion bad mouthed QC. Legion went to Pinal county and they wouldn't give them free land either. Sandie Smith was going to find gernerous private land owner.

You are right we shouldn't give land to post office, but that is done. At least the post office is for everyone. Legion is for a few.

The Legion is a private social club for members only. I cannot be in the S.A.L. GSBill. My husband can though. I am not a veteran. My husband is not a veteran either. Both of our fathers are veterans. My husband can be in the S.A.L. Sons of American Legion. They won't let me be in it as a female. Nice!

"You young lady can go sit at the little girls table", the auxilliary.
Q.C. correct to not hand park land to Legion post Tribune
January 28, 2008 - 10:53PM
Digg| Save| License| Print| E-mail|
Members of a relatively new American Legion post assumed their military service entitled them to a donation of land from a future Queen Creek park to build a new meeting hall.
But town officials believed it was wrong to hand over a parcel purchased by Queen Creek taxpayers and intended to be public space for a personal and private use. So now these veterans are accusing Queen Creek of failing to respect the post and its members.
Their bad-mouthing is unreasonable, as Queen Creek is looking out for the interests of the entire community instead of one special group. Tribune writer Sarah Boggan reported Thursday that the Duane Ellsworth American Legion Post 129 is searching for a permanent home. Its members approached Queen Creek about setting aside land for a new building in one of the town’s next five parks.
Post members describe the idea as a way for the community to give back to veterans who risked their lives serving their country.
But a city’s purchase of private land for park space, with the implicit understanding that the government could condemn the property if needed, should carry a high expectation that the final use will potentially benefit everyone.
American Legion posts are private social clubs, with the authority to exclude people who don’t meet their standards or membership rules. It would be unseemly for any government to use tax money to obtain and turn over land for a meeting place that most taxpayers never would be allowed to use.
These same veterans are praising the assistance they are now receiving from Pinal County officials including board Supervisor Sandie Smith, D-District 2, Boggan reported. But Smith hasn’t proposed the county hand over public land for an American Legion post. She’s searching for a generous private landowner to donate something.
That’s the appropriate way for the Duane Ellsworth post members to get some help if the post can’t afford to buy a site on its own.

GSBill
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:15 am
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orchardranchres wrote:
I already donate money and services to my church and to other charities. It isn't for councilman Barnes to give 7 acres of what would be a beautiful West Park http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/140421 to a private social club. How many times does the council have to say NO to Barnes and his single-minded pursuit of a special interest? http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/107661

BTW, what happened to Pinal county, they said they were going to give land to the American Legion. I figure they realized how wrong this was too and so now they are back to Queen Creek. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/107263

Gilbert gave Gilbert Legion 7200sf of space. QC Legion wants 7 acres in our most beautiful West Park. What the hell? http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/118055




Make an appt and sit down with Barnes and let him fill you in on exactly what he is proposing. The legion is made up of veterans that fought for this country. I think a workable plan is in order. If it wasnt for those people that fought for us we may not have the the option to post our views on this site. Besides QC gave 4 acres of land to the people that screwed us beyond belief(USPS) and now further want to screw us by changing our zip code. We taxpayers owned that land. I'd much rather have taxpayer land used for purposes that help the entire community. QC is proud to boast about the Legion's wounded warrior project...but just shy of actually working something out for the Legion and the community.

Barnes has a good idea and plan. I hope an agreement can be had. If Barnes' plan comes to life as he describes it it will benefit the entire town, not just the American Legion. Lets hear him out and give this a chance.

orchardranchres
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 12:45 am
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I already donate money and services to my church and to other charities. It isn't for councilman Barnes to give 7 acres of what would be a beautiful West Park http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/140421 to a private social club. How many times does the council have to say NO to Barnes and his single-minded pursuit of a special interest? http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/107661

BTW, what happened to Pinal county, they said they were going to give land to the American Legion. I figure they realized how wrong this was too and so now they are back to Queen Creek. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/107263

Gilbert gave Gilbert Legion 7200sf of space. QC Legion wants 7 acres in our most beautiful West Park. What the hell? http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/118055


AJ/GC/EM
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 Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 08:05 pm
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Nonprofit groups may become town tenants


 


By Terrance Thornton


Independent Newspapers


The town of Queen Creek is looking at developing a policy allowing Queen Creek nonprofit organizations to use town-owned land and property to better facilitate their outreach efforts.


The item was up for discussion during the June 3 Queen Creek Town Council work session and council gave the proverbial nod for staff to move forward with developing ordinance language for the pending policy.


Queen Creek Councilman Craig Barnes says the time is now for the town to facilitate volunteer help for town operations, events and promotions.


"It would save the town millions of dollars," Councilman Barnes said of the town using nonprofit organizations for events and promotions. "Most holiday (events) are done in other towns with some kind of nonprofit, but Queen Creek would rather spend the money and pay for it, which doesn’t make sense to me."


Councilman Barnes says nonprofit organizations provide a valuable resource for residents who are tussling with the down economy.


"Especially right now in this economy there are still people losing their jobs," he said. "They come to the nonprofits for help ... that helps the citizens of the community therefore those people stay in town and see a strong community."


Councilman Barnes says if the nonprofit organizations are not given an opportunity to flourish within the town of Queen Creek, it would be a huge loss to the future development of the community.


"I don’t know what the resistance is," he said of fellow councilmembers questioning tenets of the initial proposal during the June 3 work session. "We have such a chance to make a difference in people’s lives. There is a resource there and it needs to be used and we are not using it."


The amount of land and property that could be available for lease by Queen Creek nonprofit organizations was not available by press time, according to Marnie Schubert, the town’s spokeswoman.


Town Manager John Kross introduced the item to council noting requirements for the possible town policy. Requirements such as property criteria, annual reports and terms of tenancy were explained.


"It is quite unknown the broad impact of this," Mr. Kross explained to town council. "We don’t know what requests might come forth."


Although Mr. Kross says the town has not received many requests for long-term lease agreements over the years that trend may be changing.


According to the June 3 town staff report, the town, in recent months, has been contacted by groups representing nonprofit agencies requesting long-term lease agreements with the town for use of town buildings or land.


"These discussions have resulted in informal requests for below-market lease agreements of either land and/or buildings owned by the town," the report states.


Queen Creek Councilman Jeff Brown asked, during the work session, how many groups could possibly come forward seeking town land and/or property.


"How do you figure out who gets that square footage?" he asked.


Mr. Kross said that right now, as it was presented in the staff report, the determination of who gets the square footage and for how long would be determined on a case-by-case basis.


Gordon Mortensen, who was voted in unanimously by the council as Queen Creek’s vice mayor June 3, says there were a lot of things he liked about the initial proposal.


"We are seeing and helping them," he said of the town looking to help Queen Creek nonprofit groups.


Queen Creek Councilman John Wootten agreed.


"It will give us a tool to make that decision," he said during the work session of what an established long-term leasing agreement could do for the town of Queen Creek.


Post your opinions in the Public Issues Forums at newszap.com. News Editor Terrance Thornton can be reached at 480-982-7799 or tthornton@newszap.com.


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