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Retired AF Pilot
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Posted: Sat Apr 19th, 2008 11:41 pm |
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Sir,
You hit the nail on the head. Most fires are past stopping when the fire department arrives and the structure is usually lost. The fire department is there to keep it from spreading to other structures. So representing that increased pressure and flow will help in saving the structure that is involved first is disingenuous at best. The real question is "is the present water system in Sun City up to the task of preventing the spread of fire to surrounding structures?" It appears the answer to that question is "Yes." Therefore, there is no need for the upgrade in Sun City and in that light Youngtown can pay for its own system.
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Winterguy
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 10:33 pm |
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I just read in the newspaper the fire board is unhappy with us because we want to deny them the hydrants they need.
Somehow everyone seems to be missing the point. The question is not whether the improved flow would be good thing. Anyone can see it is desirable to make this improvement. The point is: Who pays for it? I guess the fire board wants it, but they can't pay for it. Youngtown wants it, but they can't pay for it. I guess the water company wants it, but they don't want to pay for it. One must question why they want it. I assume it will somehow improve their bottom line, particularly if they can collect the money in advance.
There is one other player in all of this that never seems to come up. Has anyone considered we live in Maricopa County? Since Sun City is not really a city, but part of the county, shouldn't the county foot the bill for our portion? Then, Youngtown and Peoria can pay their share of the project. I think we forget too often that our governmental unit is the County, not the SHOA, Rec Board, Taxpayers Association, or Fire Board. Maybe Maricopa County should step up and do their job.
I hope some one has given this some thought.
One of the things I sort of resent is the fire folks trying to play the fear angle to get what they want. I have been watching TV since it was first available and seldom, if ever, see water put out a structure fire unless it is applied at the very start of the fire. Usually it is simply used to prevent the spread to other structures. Unless the response time is extremely fast, fires almost always get out of control and destroy the structure. How many of the 300 fires over the last 30 years which sustained 50 to 100 percent damage were in the areas that already have improved flow?
All of us need to keep in mind Sun City retirees are not made of money. We seem to be getting nicked every time we turn around. A few cents here, a few cents there and pretty soon it starts to hurt.
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John 456
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Posted: Tue Apr 15th, 2008 03:10 pm |
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In a nutshell, NO to Az American waters request for an upgrade. If Youngtown needs the improvements than let Youngtown residents pay for it, not Sun City residents.
I would further ask the fire dept if the fire hydrants and water pressure met the code when phase one was being developed. Obviously it did so what has changed? Can the fire dept. support their backing with stats? If, as Chief Sebert says, phase one is "significantly underprotected" then he should be able to prove it.
What will happen to hundreds of homes if the water pressure suddenly increases if the project is approved. Will the water company pay for all the blown pipes? Nope, the'll just say that we should have purchased their insurance.
Jean Lewis said it right.....paying for a project such as this is unwise.
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RustyBradshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 04:16 pm |
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Organizations fight request
By Rusty Bradshaw
Independent Newspapers
The four major organizations in Sun City are doing something rare — combining their resources toward one goal.
The Sun City Home Owners Association, Condo Owners Association, Recreation Centers of Sun City and Sun City Taxpayers announced April 7 in a joint press conference they will work together to oppose Arizona-American Water Co.’s request for an upfront surcharge to fund fire flow improvements in Sun City and Youngtown.
“This is kind of rare, these groups working together,” said Bob Tomich, SCHOA Board of Directors president. “I hope we do it more often.”
The group emphasizes it is opposing only the fire flow project and surcharge, not Arizona-American’s request to raise water rates.
“There has been a moratorium on rate increases for five years; that period is now over,” said Marv Worthen, Sun City Taxpayers Association president. “We believe the rate increase is fair.”
The Arizona Corporation Commission March 12 approved rate increases for waste water for Arizona-American, which will see average rates in Sun City and Youngtown rise from $10.98 to $13.69, according to Rebecca Wilder, ACC spokeswoman. The water company is seeking a 29.53 percent rate increase for water users.
A public meeting to address the fire flow issue is scheduled 12:30 p.m. Tuesday, April 22 in Swain Hall at First Presbyterian Church, 12225 N. 103rd Ave.
Sun City Fire Chief Jim Sebert said available water is the one crucial element of delivering fire protection in any community.
“Water is the one fire fighting tool for which the Sun City Fire District has no control,” he said. “Though fire codes were updated in the 1970s that mandated better access to fire hydrant fire fighting water in all areas north of Grand Avenue, (but) the areas south of Grand developed in the 1960s are significantly under-protected.”
North of Grand Avenue fire hydrant spacing is generally every 660 feet in residential neighborhoods and 330 feet in commercial areas, Mr. Sebert explained. South of Grand Avenue many homes are over 1,800 feet away from the nearest hydrant, many commercial areas are served by only one hydrant more than 1,000 feet away, he added.
“Yet, the citizens south of Grand Avenue currently pay the same water rates as those citizens north of Grand Avenue,” Mr. Sebert said.
The Sun City Fire District Board of Directors passed a resolution in February in support of the fire flow improvements. This was done so that all residents and property owners have access to the one firefighting tool — water — the fire district cannot provide, according to Mr. Sebert.
“Without direct and immediate access to water the safety of our citizens, our fire fighters and our local homes and businesses is compromised,” he said.
Arguments by Arizona-American Water and the Sun City Fire District for the fire flow improvements are scare tactics, according to Gary Bourne, SCHOA board member.
“They (water company) just want to improve their lines,” he said. “Youngtown may need it, but they tacked Sun City onto that project.”
Jon Breamer, RCSC board member, agrees, saying the water company simply wants to have an oversized system.
“No water company in the state has an oversized system,” he said.
Mr. Worthen believes the addition of Sun City is because that is where the majority of the funding will come from. He also claims the water company wants the money up front to improve its net worth.
“Because of the difference in population, Youngtown will pay for 9 percent of the project and Sun City will pay 89 percent,” he said. “American Water’s Arizona division is the poorest performing of its divisions and they want the money up front to improve that.”
Organization officials are concerned Corporation Commissioners will be deceived by a flawed survey, conducted by Arizona-American officials, that indicates 51 percent of survey respondents favor the project and surcharge. However, he said the survey, returned by 2,500 people, missed getting input from 15,000 residents because only one survey was sent to each condominium complex rather than all residents within. Mr. Worthen also said there was no breakdown of how many of the 2,500 were Youngtown or Sun City residents.
Some Sun City residents oppose the surcharge and the fire flow project for Sun City.
“After reviewing the information provided, it appears Youngtown does have a problem with Fire safety,” said Stuart Manville, SCHOA board member. “However, Sun City does not need a giant increase from 20 psi to 1500 psi to provide fire safety to us. I then have to ask why we should pay for other cities’ problems.”
Sun City resident Jean Lewis believes paying for a project such as this is unwise.
“Never, never, never pay up front for anything,” she said. “How many times have we heard and read that during our lifetime?”
She wonders how many Sun City homes have been destroyed by fire due to lack of water.
However, others support improvements to increase safety in the community.
“My feeling about the issue is that we need to give the fire department what they say they need to protect people,” said Sun City resident Anne Randall Stewart. “The question is where to get the money.”
Group officials encourage residents to contact Corporation Commissioners to express their opposition to the project and surcharge. Contact information is available at all Sun City recreation centers, according to Jon Breamer, RCSC board member.
Post your opinions in the Public Issues Forum at http://www.newszap.com. Lead News Editor Rusty Bradshaw can be reached at 623-445-2725 or rbradshaw@newszap.com.
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