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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 01:11 pm |
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JoJo wrote: AND ANOTHER THING...for those elitists that may be reading this. Athletics is more than a privilege - athletics should be a tool to the overall education of our youth.
Here is a quote from the St. Andrews School (arguably the best education that money can buy, at least in this state - 38K per year!):
Athletics at St. Andrew's strive to cultivate teamwork, sportsmanship, poise, self-discipline and resilience. We believe that the competitive and collaborative atmosphere of team sports is an essential part of the liberal arts tradition, and that all students – not only varsity athletes – benefit from participation in sports.
They (as do many such private institutions) REQUIRE participation in at least one varsity level sport. I do not consider this an over-emphasis on athletics - just a recognition of the duty of the educational process to produce well rounded individuals.
Elitist ??? The elitist such as yourself thinks we should elevate HS athletes, and afford them special privledges. They already earned and received the privledge to play sports, they aren't owed anything else. A teacher shouldn't have to manipulate the grades of an athlete because they aren't making the grade, just so they don't get put on academic suspension from the team. BUT it happens all to often, a tecaher shouldn't have to be put in the position of not making an office referal for inappropriate behavior which would result in suspension from the team, but that happens all to often as well. These student athletes are no better , than any other student, and should not receive any different treatment than any other student.
Using you train of thought, maybe we should implement mandatory 4 year military service or JR ROTC for student of age as well, to teach them the same lessons they learn from sports
Athletics is an extracurricular activity and the right to participate is an earned privledge, based on academic criteria being met. Not every student is athletically inclined, but every student does have the potential to learn from birth and become educated.
I know plenty of people, youth and adults who are well rounded individuals and school sponsored athletics had absolutely nothing to do with the way they turned turned out. I also know plenty of HS athletes who had their heads so far up their posteriors, they were beyond obnoxious.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 12:38 pm |
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JoJo,
I used Woodbridge and Cape because my wife taught at Woodbridge, and is currently teaching at Cape as a full time contract teacher. I have already conceded that $1,600.00 is a large sum, but I also pointed out that the $1,600.00 really wasn't any more money when it is spent on gas and wear and tear on a vehicle because of the extra distance involved. $400.00 on the other hand is indeed a drop in the bucket when you break it out over the 188 day school year. I guess one could hypothesize that even though Woodbridge is one of the poorest school districts, the parents obviously put more emphasis on educating their children. They get the same 80% state money and 3% federal money that every other school district gets.
The message I posted is not hearsay, nor did I ask for any information from this person, or anyone else for that matter. Furthermore, I purposely left out parts of the message so as not to reveal the person. Quite frankly my personal belief is you already know who the person is.
Now on to the LF "Twilight Program."
What is the Twilight Program:
The Twilight program uses human instructors designed to help students who are disruptive during the regular school day, or student who want to take more advanced courses. Another program is called Blue Ridge, which is computer-based. Neither is designed to replace the required credits needed to meet the standard requirements for graduation.
A poll of educators shows young students need people to instruct them, not computers. The overall consensus of educators is the human element is important to learning, but agree computer-based learning may be beneficial to some students who are not present in the regular school day.
In my personal opinion and obviously this other educators as well, the "Twilight program" as being used by LFHS is nothing more than a means to circumvent the educational requirements to graduate so lets cut through the b/s. Of course students are going to cheat why not? The school sets the example they follow, the High School is cheating by implementing such a program. If a student is failing their regular classes they should not be eligible to play football or participate in any other extra curricular activity. In relation to football again the "twilight program" is a means to get around the eligibility requirement, so it does have everything to do with it. Teachers are asked to manipulate grades for star athletes, it goes on all the time and we both know it. The "anecdote" as you call it about the student mentioned in the message I would hazard to guess is probably not an exception to the rule, but more the norm. The person who relayed the information has absolutely no reason to be untruthful. Why not just have the students home study or take online courses and eliminate the Lake Forest High School altogether ?
Please name the other school districts in the state that have adopted the "Twilight program" as you claim. Neither Milford, Cape, or Woodbridge has adopted any such program, and they are 3 out of the 12 districts in the state, so that only leaves 8 districts not counting Lake Forest.
Again why was Lake the only school district in the state that wanted to suspend the DSTP ?
Why is it that the DSTP scores at Lake meet or exceed the state averages in elementary and middle school yet nose dive drastically at the high school ?
I'm sorry you don't like the way I analyze and view things. I spent 10 years as a school committee board member, I've already heard all the lame excuses you are giving. We are failing our children because the educational standards are continually lowered and loopholes like the "Twilight program" are implemented so that the numbers look right, instead of admitting that something is seriously wrong. The real truth of the matter is students don't have to strive to achieve to a higher goal, because the goal is at limbo height, it's the 5% of the students who don't want to just coast that excel. Now if you think 45 students out of 900 excelling is acceptable then if you are a teacher you need to find another profession.
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Harraington Parent
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 11:16 am |
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JoJo:
You've pulled out a bad card here. Have your kids take the exams and then if their accepted, you can send your kids to St. Andrews. I knew several kids many years ago. Very intelligent and very athletic. They went to St. Andrews and said it was a tough balance. They were there for the high caliber education, NOT the sports. They had a much more rigorous schedule and grade requirements to meet if they wanted to play sports. They would have not made it into St. Andrews if they had not received a strong Catholic education. You can't compare LF to St. Andrews.
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JoJo
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 04:41 am |
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AND ANOTHER THING...for those elitists that may be reading this. Athletics is more than a privilege - athletics should be a tool to the overall education of our youth.
Here is a quote from the St. Andrews School (arguably the best education that money can buy, at least in this state - 38K per year!):
Athletics at St. Andrew's strive to cultivate teamwork, sportsmanship, poise, self-discipline and resilience. We believe that the competitive and collaborative atmosphere of team sports is an essential part of the liberal arts tradition, and that all students – not only varsity athletes – benefit from participation in sports.
They (as do many such private institutions) REQUIRE participation in at least one varsity level sport. I do not consider this an over-emphasis on athletics - just a recognition of the duty of the educational process to produce well rounded individuals.
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JoJo
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 04:27 am |
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Bluesman wrote: First off if you did the basic math you would realize that the example between LFSD and CHSD I posted aren't $1,600. 00 or even close.
They are $432.40 for a bachelors w/6 years, and $808.40 for a masters w/ 6 years experience.
You also posted the difference between Lake & Woodbridge as being $1000-$1600 -depending on credentials. Whether its $400.00 or $1,600, it is still a significant difference.
Your own statistics are counter to your claim that LF salaries are competitive with our neighboring districts - clearly, they are not. Can't you just concede this point?
I find it telling that you can ignore the facts (your own facts) and continue to post heresay that you have gathered in one way or another from unnamed colleagues.
BTW, the Twilight Program is a great tool that we have in the district. It allows students to make up failed classes, as well as enabling some students to get advanced credit. They take the courses in the afternoon, after the regular school day. It is my understanding that the classes are given online (as many college courses are now).This program is designed to reduce drop-outs by keeping failing students on track to graduate. Lake was the first in the state to use it and it has since been adopted by many other districts in the state.
Your anecdote about the kid who cheated through the program is unfortunate. People just seem to always find a way to cheat and steal. I do not doubt that this happened, but to condemn the progam because some kid was able to abuse it is irresponsible.
None of this has anything to do with the football team, but I hate to see gross mis-statements go unchallenged.
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double deuce
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 02:00 am |
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I have know idea what you're talking about: I noticed you avoided commenting on the PM I received from someone at LF that discusses the "Twilight" program, why is that?
You claim that LF has a higher standard yet this person clearly states that students are getting "free passes" with this program.
If your mind was as open to ideas and learning as your mouth is you might learn something. DITTO
BTW: It's quite rude to shout and typing in all caps is shouting How many times have I asked you to keep to the topics of the threads you post in?
I read the PM you sent me. It doesn't quite make sense. The issue you think is the problem, isn't.
I'm well aware you know the trainer, and I knew it last week, because someone very close to the situation informed me they knew who you were. SO...
Seeing how the sports trainers only responsibility by law is to serve the athletes on the football team it is relevant as far as I'm concerned. Well, lets see.....this thread started out about the football team and its coaches. That doesn't have anything to do with the trainer and her pay.
Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 02:02 am by double deuce
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 12:51 am |
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LakeSupporter wrote: Just to put things in perspective here, we are now 1-2 with losses to division 1 schools Smyrna (3-0, outscoring opponents 88-0) and to Dover (2-1). Both pretty good teams from big schools.
As far as the coach goes, I think that you all are being a little tough on him. He has faced some tough situations in his tenure. First the drug scandal - he was the one to blow the whistle - not the one who enabled it. Some of you other parents need to look in the mirror on this one. It is all about personal responsibility.
Last year, we (all Lake athletics) were hamstrung by a poorly thought out, new eligibility requirement. (on a side note, I support the intent, but the implementation of the stricter requirements were unfair to everyone involved - it should have been phased in over a period of time with the addition of some sort of academic probation prior to ineligibility). We will continue to feel the effects of this policy, because the students who want to compete have moved on to Polytech, St T More, Milford, CR and even Woodbridge.
I am not going to go so far as to say that this is a "good" team, but they are not nearly as bad as some of you folks are implying.
Keep your heads up Lake, better times are ahead.
Every student and hopefully their parents read the eligibility contract student athletes sign. Just like the real world there are consequences for everyones actions.
The rules all seem to be pretty cut and dry and leave absolutely no gray area for misinterpretation. Why should academic eligibilty been phased in ? The academic scores at LF have been steadily going in the tank for the last 3 years or so.
Extracurricular activities are a privledge not a given right, and as such you earn the privledge to participate, period.
http://www.lfhs.org/pdf/athletics/code_of_conduct_07_08.pdf
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:20 pm |
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I noticed you avoided commenting on the PM I received from someone at LF that discusses the "Twilight" program, why is that?
You claim that LF has a higher standard yet this person clearly states that students are getting "free passes" with this program.
BTW: It's quite rude to shout and typing in all caps is shouting. Also JoJo brought up teacher salaries, now if you don't like what I post report me to the moderator.
If your mind was as open to ideas and learning as your mouth is you might learn something.
Read the PM that I sent you and maybe just maybe you would understand why the tariner has to teach this year, problem is YOU don't care why, you just want to have it your way like my 3 year old granddaughter.
I'm well aware you know the trainer, and I knew it last week, because someone very close to the situation informed me they knew who you were.
Seeing how the sports trainers only responsibility by law is to serve the athletes on the football team it is relevant as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 01:18 am by Bluesman
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double deuce
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:10 pm |
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THIS IS THE FOOTBALL THREAD. PLEASE KEEP IT THAT WAY....
the pay of the athletic trainer is what you're talking about, the trainer has its own thread. i know that the trainer and the athletic director has popped up in this thread, BUT PLEASE lets keep this to the football program. I'd like to see others concerns about this team.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 10:32 pm |
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double deuce wrote: i bet if you furthered your research to include all public schools, you'd find that most of their goals are the same....they probably don't list anything that deals with athletics.
You may be correct but how many other districts employ a full time sports trainer ? Especially one who was not teaching any classes, yet receiving a teachers salary. You really don't get it teachers are at the top end of the pay scale, they are above support staff. That is what catagory a sports trainer falls under with the state, if they are not actually teaching approved curriculum classes.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 10:26 pm |
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First off if you did the basic math you would realize that the example between LFSD and CHSD I posted aren't $1,600. 00 or even close.
They are $432.40 for a bachelors w/6 years, and $808.40 for a masters w/ 6 years experience.
80% of teacher salaries come from the state, 3% comes from the federal govenment, so that leaves 17% to come from the communites LFSD covers.
My comment about the direction of LFSD comes from discussions with 3 teachers who formerly taught there.
We spent roughly $240.00 a month last school year on gas, driving back and forth to Woodbridge from Milford, (64 miles round trip). We don't drive a gas guzzler we get 22 MPG with our vehicle. Then you have to figure the additional oil changes, tires, and normal wear and tear from driving the additional miles.
Yes $1,600.00 more a year means a lot to us as well, but when you calculate the number of miles driven and fuel consumption and wear and tear on a vehicle it basically ends up costing money above and beyond the $1,600.00 difference in salaries.
To some teachers it isn't about the money. Maybe that's the difference between being just a teacher and truly being an educator.
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:53 pm by Bluesman
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JoJo
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:42 pm |
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Bluesman wrote:
Excuse me ????? Now you are insinuating I am a liar. I don't need to lie on these blogs, nor do you know how many times we had our criminal check this year.
With all due respect, I intentionally did not call you a liar. I was just pointing out the obvious (although possibly unintentional) straying from the facts of your previous post.
Nice try at the deflection.......I notice you completely avoided the FACTS that I posted that support my statement about why teachers are leaving Lake Forest. It's CERTAINLY not due to: "It has much more to do with the historically lagging pay scale" that you claimed when you said my post was b/s.
I am not sure if you are even paying attention to you own posts, but the salaries at Lake have, and do lag behind salaries in neighboring districts, as your own statistics show. I must admit that I was surprised to read that a teacher at Woodbridge makes that much more than one at Lake. Maybe $1600 a year doesn't mean much to you, but to most of us it does. I imagine that if you wanted to do the work, you would find even greater differences between CR and Milford salaries and Lake salaries.
I specifically pointed out that your post claiming the following "...the direction that the administration wants LF to go in. That direction is athletics, not academics. " was total BS. This is obviously not the case and it is mis-leading of you to even make the claim.
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:42 pm by JoJo
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double deuce
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 08:04 pm |
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| i bet if you furthered your research to include all public schools, you'd find that most of their goals are the same....they probably don't list anything that deals with athletics.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 02:14 pm |
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Do any parents even read the LFSD website???
These are the GOALS the administration claims are important, nowhere does it say athletics, as part of their goal or commitment, to students or the community.
Goals
Lake Forest High School is committed to being accountable to our students and community. A number of goals reflect this commitment:
1. Student achievement--To provide a comprehensive student instructional program which enables children to meet or exceed the standards established by the Delaware State Board of Education.
2. Responsible student behavior/school climate--To provide a safe educational environment that promotes responsible student behavior.
3. Parent/community involvement--To increase family and community involvement in our students' schooling.
4. Professional Development--To provide useful and effective professional development that improves instruction and student learning.
5. School to Work Transition--To provide a curriculum that will prepare students for graduation, post secondary education, employment and productive participation in a multi-cultural society. Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 02:19 pm by Bluesman
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:50 am |
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LFMOM wrote: My daughter just had her background check for school employment done and it was $65.00. My other daughter works for DSP and I have emailed her asking her if the prices went up. $280 sounds way off and I certainly would have questioned that. Sounds like someone made a mistake.
I apologize I should have explained more completely. In looking back at my post I can see where people could misunderstand by what I posted, my error. We both had to have our background checks done twice in this last calendar year due to going to a new school district.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:40 am |
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JoJo wrote: No, it was not a "mistake" - bluesman just won't allow the truth to get in the way of his "facts".
Hey Jojo,
Excuse me ????? Now you are insinuating I am a liar. I don't need to lie on these blogs, nor do you know how many times we had our criminal check this year.
You know new district ...... new background check, every district requires a new one.
Both of us twice in a 12 month period, that adds up to $260.00.
That doesn't include the additional expense associated with sending the information on if you are a nationally certified teacher (which my wife is) the fee is $20.00.
So here you go try to follow along:
$65.00 + $65.00 = $130.00 x 2 = $260.00 + $20.00 = $280.00
Apparently I need to explain things completely for you because you can't follow the fact that I have posted my wife and I worked at Woodbridge last year and she was cut due to budget cuts, and was hired by Cape Henlopen. I also had to have a new one done to sub at Cape.
Nice try at the deflection.......I notice you completely avoided the FACTS that I posted that support my statement about why teachers are leaving Lake Forest. It's CERTAINLY not due to: "It has much more to do with the historically lagging pay scale" that you claimed when you said my post was b/s.
There is no lagging pay scale, the difference a day with a bachelors degree w/6 years wouldn't even buy a gallon of milk. The difference a day with a masters w/6 years would just buy a gallon of milk depending where you go.
So if it's not salary (and it isn't as JoJo claims) perhaps it has to do with programs like the "Twilight program" where Lake students that are failing can take classes online after school to earn credits to graduate. Want an example, here is a PM I received from a teacher presently at LF:
"Lake Forest has infuriated me in recent years with their "free passes." It's all about NCLB, and the stupid graduation rates. We started this program up called "Twilight" for students that couldn't pass their regular classes. Kids can go in after school, take their courses on the computer, and get their credits. It's a total joke. We had a kid two years ago that didn't pass any of his regular classes that year, including mine. He was still able to walk at graduation. It was the biggest joke ever. To top it off, he acted like a total jerk during the ceremony."
There are many other teachers who feel the same way and that is why they have left the LFSD.
Again it has nothing to do with lagging salaries!! So before you make claims I won't allow the "truth" to get in the way of my "facts" you should be sure you aren't posting untruths yourself which you obviously are.
The fact is you come in here challenging what I post and getting all up in my face yet you have not proven anything to the contrary to what I have posted. I challenge you to post facts contrary to what I posted about teacher salaries to support your claim that LF has "historically lagging pay scale."
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 11:42 am by Bluesman
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JoJo
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 04:41 am |
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LFMOM wrote: My daughter just had her background check for school employment done and it was $65.00. My other daughter works for DSP and I have emailed her asking her if the prices went up. $280 sounds way off and I certainly would have questioned that. Sounds like someone made a mistake.
No, it was not a "mistake" - bluesman just won't allow the truth to get in the way of his "facts".
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LFMOM
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 02:27 am |
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| My daughter just had her background check for school employment done and it was $65.00. My other daughter works for DSP and I have emailed her asking her if the prices went up. $280 sounds way off and I certainly would have questioned that. Sounds like someone made a mistake.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 01:57 pm |
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JoJo wrote: Bluesman wrote: ...the direction that the administration wants LF to go in. That direction is athletics, not academics.
Total bs, the failed attempt to raise the standards of eligibility clearly indicates otherwise. While I am sure that some teachers tell others to avoid LF, as you claim, it is certainly not because of an overemphasis on athletics. It has much more to do with the historically lagging pay scale and the perceived lack of community support evidenced by the difficulty in passing refereda in the past.
LFSD has a total of 257 teachers with a combined salary of $13,812,000.00 that equals out to an average salary of $53,743.19
The superintendent makes $136,769.00 and that ranks 12th out of 20 superintendents, in the state of Delaware.
A teacher with a Bachelors and 6 years experience makes $1,000.00 less @ Lake Forest than a teacher with the same credentials and experience at Woodbridge.
A teacher with a Masters and 6 years experience makes $1,600.00 less @ Lake Forest than a teacher at Woodbridge.
In comparision the salaries between LFSD and CHSD.
A teacher with a bachelors and 6 years experience @ LFSD makes only $2.15 a day less than a teacher with the same experience and degree @CHSD.
A teacher with a masters and 6 years experience @ LFSD makes only $4.30 a day less than a teacher with the same degree and years experience @ CHSD.
All comparisions are based on the 188 day school calendar, and taken right from the district and state teacher salary websites.
Care to discuss Linda Rust and what she went through as a braillist at LFSD ?
It's odd that you mention the "failed attempt" to raise the standards of eligibility to play sports, I was repeatedly told by double deuce that it indeed had been raised.
If academics is the most important thing then why was LFSD the only district in the state of Delaware that wanted to suspend the DSTP program for 2009-2010 ?
I don't think the LFSD is so wealthy that they can give up 3% federal education funding that is directly related to the DSTP.
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 12:56 am by Bluesman
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JoJo
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 12:15 pm |
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Bluesman wrote: ...the direction that the administration wants LF to go in. That direction is athletics, not academics.
Total bs, the failed attempt to raise the standards of eligibility clearly indicates otherwise. While I am sure that some teachers tell others to avoid LF, as you claim, it is certainly not because of an overemphasis on athletics. It has much more to do with the historically lagging pay scale and the perceived lack of community support evidenced by the difficulty in passing refereda in the past.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 01:45 pm |
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double deuce wrote: Lake has lost many great teachers and it doesn't have anything to do with sports, dstp, etc..... many loyal teachers who have spent some of their best years teaching at Lake, have also finally had to move on, again...not because of sports, dstp, etc.....
Lake's administration can't get it together enough to fully support their teachers. When the adminstration can't deal with each other, they certainly can't stand behind their teachers and support them togeher. When administration can't work as a team, the teachers are left looking helpless. Finally, they have to move on; the working conditions, treatment of staff and students, and many other factors (including money-Lake certainly doesn't have the best pay, but several years ago, we had many great teachers in all subjects. these teachers were loyal, not just hopping on the boat for a ride to a better spot-they cared about their students and how their teaching influenced their students to achieve! but one can only take so much, before they need to move on to a better working environment.
Lake has steadily gone down hill over the past few years. there are still a few great teachers, but they can't make up the difference of many great teachers.
teachers are now forced to teach to the dstp. athletes at lake have a higher standard than most any other school around. so athletes have to make the grade-a much higher grade than most of the opponents they go up against.
as for sports... lake has had some bad apples in the way of coaches. whether they meant well, and realized they'd made a mistake or not; its time to get rid of some. sports are a reward for students who make the grade. the players should be rewarded with coaches and mentors who care, listen to their players, and truly love the sport and want to see ALL their players succeed. Lake made a fine decision to bring another hockey coach last year. that coaches potential is yet to be seen, since it's only their second year. the football coach is in his 3rd year, and hasn't had much in the way of success. most of the "big" stories about that team has been connected to scandal of some sort. this season started out ok, but has quickly gone downhill. its not for lack of talent, there is enough talent on that team to carry them to some wins; but doesn't look like that will happen-the team's morale is way low, you can see on the players faces when they come off the field... its a shame that these players strive to achieve the eligibility requirement, only to play on a team that has such low morale and a coach that hasn't a clue.
Teachers don't give up tenure at the drop of the hat and without good reason. We know several teachers who left LF, and it had plenty to do with the direction that the administration wants LF to go in. That direction is athletics, not academics. Teachers talk and many have no problem telling other teachers to avoid LFSD.
The only school district in the state of Delaware who wanted to suspend DSTP testing in 2009 was the Lake Forest School District.
Delaware's national ranking for public schools:
National Ranking: 26/51
Advanced: 5.00 %
Proficient: 33.90 %
Basic: 77.80 %
Below Basic: 22.30 %
Almost 1/4 of the students in Delaware are below basic educational knowledge and you are more concerned about the care of the athletes. That's pretty d**n sad.
Do you have any idea how many teachers are forced to change grades so "Johnny" can play football or any other sport that requires a certain grade level in core subjects to participate. Or how many discipline referrals don't get dealt with, because "Johnny" wouldn't be able to play sports.
School is about academics, not just the jocks.
Unfortunately many of the jocks get treated with kid gloves because they are a star athlete, not because of their academic ability.
Last edited on Sat Sep 20th, 2008 03:15 pm by Bluesman
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LakeSupporter
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 12:23 pm |
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Just to put things in perspective here, we are now 1-2 with losses to division 1 schools Smyrna (3-0, outscoring opponents 88-0) and to Dover (2-1). Both pretty good teams from big schools.
As far as the coach goes, I think that you all are being a little tough on him. He has faced some tough situations in his tenure. First the drug scandal - he was the one to blow the whistle - not the one who enabled it. Some of you other parents need to look in the mirror on this one. It is all about personal responsibility.
Last year, we (all Lake athletics) were hamstrung by a poorly thought out, new eligibility requirement. (on a side note, I support the intent, but the implementation of the stricter requirements were unfair to everyone involved - it should have been phased in over a period of time with the addition of some sort of academic probation prior to ineligibility). We will continue to feel the effects of this policy, because the students who want to compete have moved on to Polytech, St T More, Milford, CR and even Woodbridge.
I am not going to go so far as to say that this is a "good" team, but they are not nearly as bad as some of you folks are implying.
Keep your heads up Lake, better times are ahead.
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67 Butterflies
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 06:51 am |
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| so, how about the game tonite (friday)? i feel for those players; their morale looks as if its hit bottom-coach must make some changes in a hurry to salvage what he can for them. Its such a shame, with all thats going on at the school-according to the numerous concerned posts in Harrington's forums-if these players have to strive for better grades to play, the least they deserve is a coach who kknows what hes doing.
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double deuce
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 06:25 am |
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Lake has lost many great teachers and it doesn't have anything to do with sports, dstp, etc..... many loyal teachers who have spent some of their best years teaching at Lake, have also finally had to move on, again...not because of sports, dstp, etc.....
Lake's administration can't get it together enough to fully support their teachers. When the adminstration can't deal with each other, they certainly can't stand behind their teachers and support them togeher. When administration can't work as a team, the teachers are left looking helpless. Finally, they have to move on; the working conditions, treatment of staff and students, and many other factors (including money-Lake certainly doesn't have the best pay, but several years ago, we had many great teachers in all subjects. these teachers were loyal, not just hopping on the boat for a ride to a better spot-they cared about their students and how their teaching influenced their students to achieve! but one can only take so much, before they need to move on to a better working environment.
Lake has steadily gone down hill over the past few years. there are still a few great teachers, but they can't make up the difference of many great teachers.
teachers are now forced to teach to the dstp. athletes at lake have a higher standard than most any other school around. so athletes have to make the grade-a much higher grade than most of the opponents they go up against.
as for sports... lake has had some bad apples in the way of coaches. whether they meant well, and realized they'd made a mistake or not; its time to get rid of some. sports are a reward for students who make the grade. the players should be rewarded with coaches and mentors who care, listen to their players, and truly love the sport and want to see ALL their players succeed. Lake made a fine decision to bring another hockey coach last year. that coaches potential is yet to be seen, since it's only their second year. the football coach is in his 3rd year, and hasn't had much in the way of success. most of the "big" stories about that team has been connected to scandal of some sort. this season started out ok, but has quickly gone downhill. its not for lack of talent, there is enough talent on that team to carry them to some wins; but doesn't look like that will happen-the team's morale is way low, you can see on the players faces when they come off the field... its a shame that these players strive to achieve the eligibility requirement, only to play on a team that has such low morale and a coach that hasn't a clue.
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Two Cents
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 02:09 am |
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| Seems as though the district should be suspending not the tests, but the teachers. Those are dismal scores for any district to have to report. Why would anybody bother to attend those schools? They evidently are not learning anything.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 01:39 am |
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LostinHarrington,
Thank you obviously someone else does get it. This is exactly what I have been saying in this forum and the Athletic Trainer forum. Education obviously takes a back seat to the primary purpose of school which is an education, so that students upon graduation are prepared to become productive members of our ever expanding society.
This is from a post I made in the Athletic Trainer forum:
http://www.newszapforums.com/forum37/65786.html
The DSTP scores for Lake tell the story quite clearly test score results have been dipping well below the state level average. That must be why LFSD wanted to suspend the DSTP testing, for this academic school year.
Lets look at the DSTP scores for 10 th grade students @ Lake Forest
Reading
state average 73%
LFSD
2004 -72%
2005 - 74%
2006 - 64%
2007 - 64%
Writing
state average 66%
LFSD
2004 - 82%
2005 - 79%
2006 - 66%
2007 - 53%
Math
state average 57%
LFSD
2004 - 45%
2005 - 55%
2006 - 60%
2007 - 45%
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LostinHarrington
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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I'm lost here. I understand that the coaches behavior towards the students is questionable at best, horrid at worst. But, sports are extra-curricular. Isn't winning through education more important? Shouldn't the GPA come first? If a kid can't make it in the classroom, he/she shouldn't have the priveledge of playing sports.
Isn't winning being a state of mind more important than what the scoreboard reads? Do these kids deserve to go to college because of their athletic prowess, or their GPA and SAT scores dictate admission. Losing has it's place, and is just as important to character development and life skills as winning. If your son or daughter wants to play on the field, they need to quit playing in the classroom and start performing.
In reference to performance, I have been approached by several college freshmen these past few weeks who had very good grades in high school, but needed help with college homework. The womework theyneeded help on would have been easy if they had received the proper instruction in high school. It was part of the standard curriculum when I was in school 30+ years ago. Sadly, these students told me that their professors told them that they should have learned the information in high school. They went on to tell me that Lake left them well prepared for taking the DSTP, but totally lacking in the information necessary for college. That kind of makes the school district look like they have lost direction. They are apparently so scared about poor performance on the DSTP, that they do not care about preparing the kids for what is to come after high school ends. On the outside looking in, it appears that LFHS is trying to assist the fast food and hospitality industries with more worker bees.
As for the coach, that will work it'self out. Bad coaches move on after so many bad seasons and complaints. Just keep pushing the point with the school board.
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depeacemaker
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 10:13 pm |
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As a parent, I hold my children responsible for themselves. I support what is right, not what makes my kids feel all squishy and warm inside.
Winning to you is all about positive attitude?? Then maybe if you spend more time worrying about making your kids accountable, then harping on who blocks who, you wouldn't have to make these stupid comments.
You push a kids behavior off on the coach of a sport ("...should be the one has the handle on their players") which supports my theory that you would rather blame someone else than take the responsibility yourself.
I'd love to see all the volunteer coaches these days. It would be the same people that sit in the stands and critique every move like it was the NFL. A bunch of "I know betters".
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rev wright fan club
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 08:36 am |
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As a parent how can you support what is going on at LF? Your 4 years in high school are the times that stay with you the rest of your life. This is first step in the rest of your life. A low sucess rate in sports is just a sign of the bigger problem. I would like to know the % of 8th graders LF loses to school choice.
Just a question for you have you ever been a winner? Winning is a state of mind that is brought on by positive coaching(in education or athletics), positive training(hard work=success), and a positive attitude(if you get knocked down get back up, never quit). When you have these 3 things it makes losing in sports and life more difficult. I dont see it at LF.
Realistically in football no educated person expects immediate change but 3 years? Lake Forrest use to be known as a small school that graduated fine young people and good athletes. Can they say that now? You ask questions about the blocking schemes of guards and the center it would be nice to see some blocking of any type. Can you say you have seen solid footbal played on the field of LFHS? If you say yes please let me have a drink of what you got. It obviously puts your brain in some fantasy world.
You mention a team involved in scandle. A coach should be the one who has the handle on their players. Kids do what they think they can get away with, so they somehow must have thought it was ok. It shows a lack of control or respect for the coaching staff. Maybe both.
As far as volunteer coaches I think its a good idea! What would be wrong with giving it a try? All they could do would be to lose and have a team surrounded with scandle. That appears to be what they currently are experiencing with paid/district employee coaches.
Maybe you need to read a little from the great public speaker Obama if you dont like the state of affairs its time for CHANGE.
Peace Out
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rev wright fan club
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 08:36 am |
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As a parent how can you support what is going on at LF? Your 4 years in high school are the times that stay with you the rest of your life. This is first step in the rest of your life. A low sucess rate in sports is just a sign of the bigger problem. I would like to know the % of 8th graders LF loses to school choice.
Just a question for you have you ever been a winner? Winning is a state of mind that is brought on by positive coaching(in education or athletics), positive training(hard work=success), and a positive attitude(if you get knocked down get back up, never quit). When you have these 3 things it makes losing in sports and life more difficult. I dont see it at LF.
Realistically in football no educated person expects immediate change but 3 years? Lake Forrest use to be known as a small school that graduated fine young people and good athletes. Can they say that now? You ask questions about the blocking schemes of guards and the center it would be nice to see some blocking of any type. Can you say you have seen solid footbal played on the field of LFHS? If you say yes please let me have a drink of what you got. It obviously puts your brain in some fantasy world.
You mention a team involved in scandle. A coach should be the one who has the handle on their players. Kids do what they think they can get away with, so they somehow must have thought it was ok. It shows a lack of control or respect for the coaching staff. Maybe both.
As far as volunteer coaches I think its a good idea! What would be wrong with giving it a try? All they could do would be to lose and have a team surrounded with scandle. That appears to be what they currently are experiencing with paid/district employee coaches.
Maybe you need to read a little from the great public speaker Obama if you dont like the state of affairs its time for CHANGE.
Peace Out
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double deuce
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 11:31 pm |
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| please keep the athletic trainer replies to that post. this is about the football program.... for the second time already
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Bluesman
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:10 pm |
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double deuce wrote: the trainer was initially hired primarily for the trainer certification.
lake hired the trainer b/c of her trainer certification. they had her teach classes b/c Lake had never had a trainer b/f and did not know how to utilize her abilities to the fullest.
lets put this back on the "athletic trainer" post
Not according to DEEDS she is employed by Lake Forest High School. Her position:
Status: Teacher, Secondary, Health & Physical Education, Comprehensive
Masters Athletic Training '01
Bachelors Physical Education '93
Nice way to pick up the Master's pay scale for a teacher, $60,000.00 + (based on 15 years) yet do no teaching.
BTW, what's her relationship to the person who works in Administration at Lake Forest High School ?
Is there any part of Harrington's government or school district that isn't tainted or have some type of scandal ?
As an outsider looking in and reading all these various blogs and comments made it's a disaster in Harrington.
Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:22 pm by Bluesman
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double deuce
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 11:32 am |
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the trainer was initially hired primarily for the trainer certification.
lake hired the trainer b/c of her trainer certification. they had her teach classes b/c Lake had never had a trainer b/f and did not know how to utilize her abilities to the fullest.
lets put this back on the "athletic trainer" post
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Bluesman
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 11:26 am |
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double deuce wrote: the athletic trainer has a post all its own. if you read it, you will find what the trainer was initially hired for!
this post was started because of someones concern for the football team only!
Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 07:32 pm
double deuce wrote:
"let me give you a little back ground on the trainer.
When Lake hired her, she did teach sports medicine classes.
the district soon realized her importance to their atheletes.
She then became strictly a trainer.
To have her teach one class, i don't think its worth the risk to our athletes. you can go to the district and ask to see her daily sign in sheets from the last few years; those sheets will tell the story..."
She was hired as a teacher initially (according to your own post), and again she is more than likely still being compensated as a teacher....
You suggested volunteer coaches........... yet you expect this woman to be compensated and not even perform the duties she was originally hired for by the district.
It does go hand in hand with this discussion because the only sport that requires a trainer is football.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 11:10 am |
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| Once again the state did away with the fund supports the fees for background checks being done. If a particular district LF in this case is paying then it's coming out of the 20% contributed by the local taxpayers not the state. Cape Henlopen, Woodbridge, and Milford aren't paying for the check as of this year. Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 11:12 am by Bluesman
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double deuce
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 05:06 am |
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My wife and I had ours done in August it was $280.00 for both of us, at DSP. Due to DE State budget cuts the fee is no longer paid by the school districts
Bluesman: substitutes pay approximately $55 for a background check before they can substitute (according to a current substitute). Once that person substitutes 15 days within Lakes district, Lake will reimburse that fee to the substitute.
i dont know what kind of background check you had done, but the background checks done on substitutes are the same ones used for newly hired teachers-which of course DoE requires.
Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 05:07 am by double deuce
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double deuce
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 01:52 am |
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the athletic trainer has a post all its own. if you read it, you will find what the trainer was initially hired for!
this post was started because of someones concern for the football team only!
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Bluesman
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 12:51 am |
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my understanding is she was initially hired as a health teacher and taught several classes when she was first hired (correct me if I'm wrong).
LF then decided she was valuable as a sports trainer so she then filled that role while maintaining an educators salary....... yet apparently until this year wasn't teaching any classes.
Now she has been asked to teach one class and parents are upset.
Wanna bet the teachers salary is higher than a trainers, and someone complained. You all talk about how bad the school is, more than likely people are trying to cover their posteriors, especially if an audit is lurking on the horizon.
That's probably why she is teaching a class this year.
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double deuce
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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 11:18 pm |
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how long is enough time for things to change? 5 years, 10 years??? just because a person shines in a particular sport-that doesn't mean that they can coach. to be a coach, you have to be fair, strict, and demand respect; plus have the ability to put players in positions that will benefit the team. When a coach continues to have issues with players, the team doesn't mesh, players being favored (as stated before)-you don't have a well rounded coach who is going to change much. I believe that 2-3 years is a fair time frame to see some sort of change in a team. Especially when in the Middle school there are winning seasons; and it completely goes down hill once those players reach HS level. This exact thing happened to Lakes Hockey team. For three years there was a coach who meant well, but was not successful. Last year there were a whole new set of coaches. That season was a complete success. I am not saying there weren't issues, but there were different issues that the new coaches dealt with the best they knew how for being new. This year (theire 2nd) is yet to be determined...
I don't always have the choice to decide how any given day turns out for me...i do have the choice as to how I handle the challenges I face each day.
I don't think that I've come across in these posts as a parent that you described in your last sentence and am offended by what you said. I know I haven't done EVERYTHING correct with raising my children, I AM only human. I honestly believe there is no one out there who has; if so-good for them! I try my best to be positive in front of my children, I've tried to instill in them that mistakes are made to be learn from, and that everything happens for a reason. I try to teach them to be upbeat and to go with the swing of things. BUT I also have taught them to stand up for what they think is right, or what they feel would be right; but to be polite and honest in explaining their feelings. SO, I am sorry if you feel that I am such a great parent and I strut around and show everyone how to run things.
BY THE WAY, I believe the complaints that are being made to those "higher ups" are being made without involving any one student. The complaints that have been made are done because of the effect it has on the team as a whole. Its not necessarily "my kid" this or "my kid" that type of thing.
Last edited on Tue Sep 16th, 2008 11:22 pm by double deuce
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depeacemaker
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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 08:39 pm |