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Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 5408 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:21 am |
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| Tankers are for outlying communities and house fires in the stix. Not to fight three story 100 room hotel fires.
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Zymergy
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Posted: Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 11:18 pm |
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If water supply was always 100% then there would be no need for the Depts to have the tankers in the first place. You read all the time about large cities having pressure problems when fighting a large fires. Do your own searching if you want to be specific. All I'm saying is it is not something that is unheard of.
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DoverDelawarean
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 7th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 133 |
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Posted: Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 07:32 pm |
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Zymergy wrote: You people make it sound as if there should have been 20 hydrants placed around the hotel. Do you think this is the first large file where companies had to rely on tankers? Due to the large amount of equipment on the scene did you really expect everyone of those to be able to hook up to a hydrant? Even if there were more hydrants pumping that amount of water for 2hr straight is going to affect pressure. You guys should do just a little research before you post.
Zym, I am definitely interested in seeing other examples around here where a large commerical structure with a dedicated hydrant plant required a tanker shuttle to maintain their exterior master stream operations.
Maybe Dover has an amazingly efficient water supply grid but I have never seen a report of water issues so severe that they required tankers to shuttle water. Am I missing something?
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Zymergy
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 12:50 pm |
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You people make it sound as if there should have been 20 hydrants placed around the hotel. Do you think this is the first large file where companies had to rely on tankers? Due to the large amount of equipment on the scene did you really expect everyone of those to be able to hook up to a hydrant? Even if there were more hydrants pumping that amount of water for 2hr straight is going to affect pressure. You guys should do just a little research before you post.
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Jody.Sweeney
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 06:30 am |
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| I made this point during the campaign. It is happening in my back yard. Camden annexes acre after acre and does not require the same tough development laws that the County does. All I could do was inform my neighbors and the townfolk to let them know what was going on so that they could contact their council members.
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Hartlyboy
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 01:15 am |
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Jody.Sweeney wrote: The hotel should never have been built where there was insufficient water to a hydrant for fire company hook-up.
The Hampton Inn is in Milford City limits, meaning that the Regional Planning Committee, Kent County Government, and Levy Court had NOTHING to do with where the hotel was placed, it's design, or the availability of water to hydrants.
This is a point that should be made more often. These towns have their own empires that say how things are done within their city limits -and they can annex more land into their city limits with impunity. Towns like Smyrna and Clayton have doubled and tripled in size because the developers got the town councils to agree to annexations and let them put up thousands of houses based on town rules. Those of us outside the town still have to pay for their new schools and the other effects of their greedy plays, but the County has to sit on its hands and let it happen.
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Jody.Sweeney
Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 11:19 pm |
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PTG did not make himself clear. And I have such a hard time giving him credit for ANYTHING he says, but in this case he is right. The hotel should never have been built where there was insufficient water to a hydrant for fire company hook-up.
The Hampton Inn is in Milford City limits, meaning that the Regional Planning Committee, Kent County Government, and Levy Court had NOTHING to do with where the hotel was placed, it's design, or the availability of water to hydrants.
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DoverDelawarean
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 7th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 133 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 06:37 pm |
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PTG has a very valid point. He is not talking about the sprinkler system or anything "in" the building. He is talking about the fire hydrants.
Who did the study to determine how many fire hydrants and what flow rate were needed to adequately supply the fire trucks water for a fire of this size?
There is no excuse for having a structure that large (occupied or not) without a proven and reliable source of water.
Jody, as the peoples representative, I think it would be responsible to determine what was in place and if it was compliant with Kent County expectations. If Kent County has no expectations, then I believe you found a good place to begin expecting something.
Just my 2 cents on the topic.
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Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 5408 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 19th, 2009 01:30 pm |
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I am not talking about the sprinkler system, I am talking about the lack of sufficient waterr in the area to fight the fire. They had to rely on tankers from several surrounding companies to drive to the water source, fill their tankers, turn around and return to the scene of the fire.
I truly thought we were beyond the bucket brigades in Delaware. This hotel should never have been approved without an adequate water supply to fight the fire.
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Jody.Sweeney
Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 19th, 2009 04:06 am |
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The RPC approves preliminary and final PLANS. No shovel is turned until the RPC and Levy Court approves the PLANS.
After the PLANS are approved, construction begins. The County provides inspections along the way, but like I said earlier, the protective systems would not have been active until close to the very end.
That is from experience in building a structure that had fire control systems.
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Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 5408 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 12:30 am |
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I have been to RPC meetings when projects are presented for preliminary approval. They are signed off on by the Big Guy who represents the Fire Commission for the County. He determines if the roads are wide enough for fire trucks and there is sufficient infrastructure to handle the project.
Know from what you speak before you speak it.
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Jody.Sweeney
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 17th, 2009 03:57 am |
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Construction permits are issued for PLANS. The building was under construction. You are thinking of a Certificate of Occupancy, which is issued AFTER construction. The CofO is only issued when the entire building, including safety features, are completed. It is very likely that while under construction, those safety features were not operable.
And the RPC does not issue permits. If the building is in the city limits of Milford, Milford handles the approval, building permit, CofO. If it is not in the city limits, then the RPC and Levy Court handle the approval, the Division of Planning handles the permitting.
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Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 5408 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 17th, 2009 12:47 am |
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| How were the construction permits issued if there was insufficent fire fighting available to the site. That's why we pay you guys the big bucks.
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Jody.Sweeney
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 05:13 am |
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Jeez! The hotel was UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Imagine if the FIRST thing that was built in a construction job was the fire suppression. Alot of buildings would have pipes just hanging in the air.
Most of that type of system is not checked until the Certification of Occupancy is issued, AT THE END OF THE CONSTRUCTION!
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Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 5408 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 10:07 pm |
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http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090413/NEWS/90413001
Would someone please tell me how this hotel received a permit from the RPC to be built with an inadequate water supply to fight a fire? Thank God it wasn't completed and occupied. I guess the good ole boys on the Commission didn't think this was very important. The Fire Commission Rep. should be put in jail for approving this site.
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