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curiousindover
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Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2006 10:48 am |
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| The elections showed us all something. For the most part, unless you die, retire or are caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you are re-elected in Delaware. Come to think of it, even if you are caught with your hand in the cookie-jar, you don't lose. It's a sad commentary on the ethics of some and the tolerance of the electorate. As they say, though, it's time to move on. We'll see what happens during the next couple of years. Downstate, though, Kent County showed their county government needed change and performed a clean sweep. Lets see if they hold to their word or become as bad for the county as the departing members have been.
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LCR
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Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2006 02:13 am |
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| Damn you sensible types......................LOL
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Hartlyboy
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Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2006 02:09 am |
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| Your comment on the difference of 400 votes kind of made me think a bit about this whole election. There really wasn't a massive change in the voting patterns of people . Many of the races were squeakers that fell this time to the Democrats for the most part. We are still a nation almost evenly divided on how we feel about a whole host of issues. Doesn't seem like we really came together much -just wiggled a little in another direction. Of course, for some of us , that 'wiggle' resulted in some uncomfortable leadership in Washington but the point is we are a pretty divided nation and remind each other of that periodically at the polls....
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LCR
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Posted: Fri Nov 10th, 2006 01:19 am |
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It won't but I feel better..........................
Cobra wrote:
At least this shows that the local races were not a referendum on George Bush. I don't understand picking Biden over Wharton, though. It certainly wasn't qualifications. The voters sure gave a punch to the Levy Court, and deservingly so. I hope that this stops us from becoming another Philadelphia or Wilmington, or even Baltimore.
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Cobra
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 03:52 pm |
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| At least this shows that the local races were not a referendum on George Bush. I don't understand picking Biden over Wharton, though. It certainly wasn't qualifications. The voters sure gave a punch to the Levy Court, and deservingly so. I hope that this stops us from becoming another Philadelphia or Wilmington, or even Baltimore.
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curiousindover
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 10:38 am |
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| I wouldn't call a win of less than 400 votes a mandate, but she won and that's all that matters. Congratulation to her.
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LCR
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 02:15 am |
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Nancy won.....and she should have.
Poltergeist wrote:
Any early results??
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Poltergeist
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Posted: Tue Nov 7th, 2006 10:59 pm |
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| Any early results??
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Fred
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Posted: Tue Nov 7th, 2006 03:55 pm |
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| Agree, CR. Voting is the primary issue. If more people voted, those running would be more responsive.
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LCR
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Posted: Tue Nov 7th, 2006 12:52 am |
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| Just Vote that is what is important
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Poltergeist
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Posted: Mon Nov 6th, 2006 10:34 pm |
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| Vote Prameela Kaza
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LCR
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Posted: Mon Nov 6th, 2006 12:55 am |
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Thought I'd bring this back up since the tangent is so angry
LCR wrote:
I still think you're jealous. There is a big difference between collecting two salaries as a governing member of more than one state body, but I don't think teaching actually has you governing anyone except a few pimply faced students.
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 10:57 pm |
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Sounds like you got turned down for a state job.
There is a large difference and your tax dollars paying a salary have little to do with it. The thought process should be are you getting your dollar's worth? If you don't feel Wagner is effective at both jobs, terminate her part time work as a representative in the Legislature.
Take a Viagra and get over it.
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curiousindover
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 10:56 pm |
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| Double dipping is double dipping. It's illegal and deceiptful. Not what I want to see from my legislators. Oh, did I forget, isn't that what a legislator is, at their convenience? Time to get rid of their type.
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truth dude
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 09:57 pm |
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| What in the world does jealously have to do with it? You sound like an apologist for Wagner. If you can't dispute the message then attack the messenger -- that seems to be your only defense. When Wagner is being paid by the Capital School District she is being paid by our tax dollars. When she is being paid as a legislator she is being paid by our tax dollars. If she is being paid twice for the same period of time that is State of Delaware illegal double dipping. If you don't understand that simple equation then there is no hope for you.
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 09:19 pm |
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| I still think you're jealous. There is a big difference between collecting two salaries as a governing member of more than one state body, but I don't think teaching actually has you governing anyone except a few pimply faced students. Last edited on Sun Nov 5th, 2006 09:20 pm by
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nobull
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:41 pm |
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| Interesting you asked about a lawsuit. There is a suit which was filed against her alleged double dipping in Superior Court. The hearing date is set for November 15, 2006. Wagner through her lawyer is attempting to get it dismissed with technicalities. Even if she gets it dismissed because of technicalities she will still have to answer to the public the double dipping issue.
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:33 pm |
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If it's illegal why has no one brought suit? I think you're jealous. Her teaching salary is the one that concerns me, not the fact that she is a teacher. Why do you think your school taxes are so high?
nobull wrote:
LCR -- Delaware Law states it is illegal to be paid two state wages for the same period of time. Even if they were both part time jobs. Wagner is doing exactly that. $75,000 for her teaching job abd $40,000 for her legislature job. It doesn't matter if it is five minutes or five hours per day. If the time overlaps then she is violating the law. If you don't like the law then do something to change it.
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nobull
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:31 pm |
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| LCR -- Delaware Law states it is illegal to be paid two state wages for the same period of time. Even if they were both part time jobs. Wagner is doing exactly that. $75,000 for her teaching job abd $40,000 for her legislature job. It doesn't matter if it is five minutes or five hours per day. If the time overlaps then she is violating the law. If you don't like the law then do something to change it.
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:25 pm |
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In case some of you are delusional, the service of a State Legislator is part time. They do not meet the entire year and the salary is not one that would sustain most people if it were full time.
I like part-time Legislators...I think we should actually carry it on to the Congress of the US. Several states consider public service a part time job. Our Washington Legislators only work part time so we should pay them that way. There would definitely be a change in the political scene if we fought for that instead of fighting each other.
Disgusted wrote:
Nancy Wagner isn't the only person who is or was a public school employee who simultaneously sat in the State Legislature. I believe either the DSN or the News-Journal ran a story several years ago in which it was shown that about 1/4 of those elected to the State Senate and House had full-time jobs in Delawate public education. This was statewide, not just the CSD.
As for her teaching abilities, I was one of her DHS English students when she commenced teaching there in the late 1960s. She knew her stuff and graded fairly, but was quite tempermental, lashing out at several students who had not given her any reason to do so (I was the target of one of her tirades). In short, she was too young to be teaching high schoolers.
(For that matter, anyone under age 30 is too young to be teaching grades 7-12 in any school, public or private. I know that's age discrimination. So what?)
She left the district, but returned with her husband in the 1980s getting her old job back. One of my children had her as an English teacher at DHS, and, honestly, her knowledge and deportment were not what I would want in a teacher. While the temper had been harnessed, well, there was something missing. (The same can be said of several other instructors there in the 1990s who were there 30 years earlier. The burnout was quite obvious to me when I attended the Open Houses.)
It seems to me that she's cared more for what she does at Leg Hall than what she does for the farce that we, the people, have made of the Capital School District. By that I mean that too few of us vote on Election Day, and too many who do know nothing except glitzy ads, campaign literature, and who serves best their personal agenda. That is why the public school system in this country is largely in the hands of folks who are not of the belief that the US of A is the best and freest country that God gave man and woman.
I don't measure a lawmaker by how many pieces of legislation he or she has their name on. The best barometers are whether they have properly acted in line with their oath of office, and have conducted their public and private life in a responsible manner. Nobody's perfect, and we have no business expecting that in any public official, but we do expect decency and adult conduct.
And, not making a career out of elective public office. Myself, I'm all for one term and out at all levels - city, county, state, and federal. That would enncourage more folks to give it a try, and cut the cost of doing so.
Last edited on Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:26 pm by
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 06:39 pm |
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Perhaps more people don't run because it is too expensive and difficult to unseat a career politician. Term limits can help prevent that. Public service should be a second career or in a real world, part-time. That would be legislating by your peers, something the founding fathers did.
Boy that would crash the housing market in DC
Last edited on Sun Nov 5th, 2006 08:18 pm by
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Fred
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Posted: Sun Nov 5th, 2006 11:47 am |
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One term and out?
Interesting, but I see a few problems with it. First, one can't find enough people to run for office now, let alone trying to fill the slate every couple of years. It is a lot of work, and not everyone would want to take a year or so off from their job to do this kind of work.
It is not a simple process. Maybe it could or should be, but it takes a while to just to understand the various ways things work, and the people who are involved, especially if you are elected to a two year rem.
The answer is to get more people to run, and to review each elected official on their own merits. If they have overstayed their stay, get rid of them, but there are plenty of examples of long term elected officials in Dover who have done a great job.
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Disgusted
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Posted: Sat Nov 4th, 2006 05:45 pm |
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Nancy Wagner isn't the only person who is or was a public school employee who simultaneously sat in the State Legislature. I believe either the DSN or the News-Journal ran a story several years ago in which it was shown that about 1/4 of those elected to the State Senate and House had full-time jobs in Delawate public education. This was statewide, not just the CSD.
As for her teaching abilities, I was one of her DHS English students when she commenced teaching there in the late 1960s. She knew her stuff and graded fairly, but was quite tempermental, lashing out at several students who had not given her any reason to do so (I was the target of one of her tirades). In short, she was too young to be teaching high schoolers.
(For that matter, anyone under age 30 is too young to be teaching grades 7-12 in any school, public or private. I know that's age discrimination. So what?)
She left the district, but returned with her husband in the 1980s getting her old job back. One of my children had her as an English teacher at DHS, and, honestly, her knowledge and deportment were not what I would want in a teacher. While the temper had been harnessed, well, there was something missing. (The same can be said of several other instructors there in the 1990s who were there 30 years earlier. The burnout was quite obvious to me when I attended the Open Houses.)
It seems to me that she's cared more for what she does at Leg Hall than what she does for the farce that we, the people, have made of the Capital School District. By that I mean that too few of us vote on Election Day, and too many who do know nothing except glitzy ads, campaign literature, and who serves best their personal agenda. That is why the public school system in this country is largely in the hands of folks who are not of the belief that the US of A is the best and freest country that God gave man and woman.
I don't measure a lawmaker by how many pieces of legislation he or she has their name on. The best barometers are whether they have properly acted in line with their oath of office, and have conducted their public and private life in a responsible manner. Nobody's perfect, and we have no business expecting that in any public official, but we do expect decency and adult conduct.
And, not making a career out of elective public office. Myself, I'm all for one term and out at all levels - city, county, state, and federal. That would enncourage more folks to give it a try, and cut the cost of doing so.
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nobull
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Posted: Sat Nov 4th, 2006 11:26 am |
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| Fred, this is a repeat statement but I'm guessing you missed it. Wagner has been getting for close to 6 years an extra months salary ($7000 per year) so she can finish the work she claims she couldn't get done during the normal school year. What makes this worse is the fact that her husband Bud was on the CSD Board of Educatioin when Ms. Nancy was handed this golden goose. If she quit running to legislative hall maybe the taxpayers could save that extra money -- approximately $42,000 and growing.
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Poltergeist
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Posted: Sat Nov 4th, 2006 01:39 am |
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Fred, It is disgraceful for Ms. Wagner who is afterall a teacher to be away from the school while kids are there! No I imagine that DHS is not"turning out widgets." But the community expects teachers to be where the kids are. She is not relieved of this responsibility because she serves as a Legislator.
If she wants to go to meetings and be in touch with her constituents, she needs to resign her position at DHS!!
Fred wrote:
Sorry, it doesn't bother me. If it doesn't bother her bosses, and she is getting her job done, why should I care? She is not on an assembly line turning out widgets.
Where I work, our executives often have other boards that they are on. Now, I am not privvy to their payroll records, but I doubt that they deduct the hours they are away from their office to go to these paid board meetings.
At my level, we are encouraged to do such things as Meals on Wheels or Junior Achievement. We don't deduct our pay; the assumption is that we will still get our job done, either by working harder, staying late, or coming in early. Now, this is not a public school, and I am admittedly looking at this from a private sector perspective. I have an employee who can help influence legislation either directly or indirectly that might help my business?
Finally, you really have to look at the overall person. I don't agree with her on all issues, but I can't say that this is enough for me to not vote for her.
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LCR
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 02:45 am |
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| Say Hi to Ted and John for the rest of us working slobs Fred.
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 02:27 am |
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Well, that is the difference, CR... I think the variety of opinions, a variety of people, a variety of backgrounds, a variety of education and work experience is what makes a party more interesting.....
Which is why I guess I am a Dem.
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LCR
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 12:35 am |
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I try to stay away from cocktail parties where Kennedy defenders and supporters gather. It is most hazardous to ones health. Now if they serve Heinz Ketchup on the hors d'oeuvres we are really in trouble......(hic!)
Fred wrote:
It is only because I am defending a Republican, right? 
Actually, if you take the time to read my posts, you will see that I usually do try to take the side of fairness. I've defended the Foley incident as much as anyone here, because I think he did the right thing given what we know...I am highly critical of his leadership, because someone knew he was doing something, and no one ever took him behind the woodshed and told him to knock it off...and even when he wanted to quit, they threatened his future livelihood as a lobbyist if he didn't run for one more term to keep the seat.
I don't see too many left-wingers throwing the mud that the right-wingers do, but when I think things are way off base (LMAO) I'll call them on that too.
I think the postings do give a one-dimensional approach view of people, sometimes. I suspect that most of us would probably get along pretty well at a cocktail party, and we would temper some of our rhetoric (or,at least our wives would pull us away towards the punch bowl if we got too loud....)
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curiousindover
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 12:32 am |
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Most of us would probably get along at a cocktail party indeed. It's nothing personal about Nancy, it's just she's not been watching while many things have gone asunder. No increase in minimum wages, thanks to the GOP House, $2.7 billion short in the Transportation Trust Fund while the GOP House stood by quietly as their leadership kept it quiet. Electric rates that shot through the roof and the GOP led House turned it into a political football by failing to help people when legislation came to them from the Senate in a fair and well intende fashion. Education that has been a failure in CSD while Ms. Wagner was Chair of the House Education Committee. Seems to me, that''s more than enough to call for a "clean sweep". I too saw Nancy in her district, but I also saw Ms. Kaza, who is burning with a desire to help people. She's sent out information that makes some promises and has some clear goals. Ms. Wagner hasn't. It's a difficult choice, but a choice has to be made. My vote goes to the challenger.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 09:11 pm |
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It is only because I am defending a Republican, right?
Actually, if you take the time to read my posts, you will see that I usually do try to take the side of fairness. I've defended the Foley incident as much as anyone here, because I think he did the right thing given what we know...I am highly critical of his leadership, because someone knew he was doing something, and no one ever took him behind the woodshed and told him to knock it off...and even when he wanted to quit, they threatened his future livelihood as a lobbyist if he didn't run for one more term to keep the seat.
I don't see too many left-wingers throwing the mud that the right-wingers do, but when I think things are way off base (LMAO) I'll call them on that too.
I think the postings do give a one-dimensional approach view of people, sometimes. I suspect that most of us would probably get along pretty well at a cocktail party, and we would temper some of our rhetoric (or,at least our wives would pull us away towards the punch bowl if we got too loud....)
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The Insyder
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 05:29 pm |
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Fred, this is one of the most excellent, fair and balanced, non-biased responses that I have seen from you in a long, long time. I am in complete agreement with you ... this time.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 04:03 pm |
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Sorry, it doesn't bother me. If it doesn't bother her bosses, and she is getting her job done, why should I care? She is not on an assembly line turning out widgets.
Where I work, our executives often have other boards that they are on. Now, I am not privvy to their payroll records, but I doubt that they deduct the hours they are away from their office to go to these paid board meetings.
At my level, we are encouraged to do such things as Meals on Wheels or Junior Achievement. We don't deduct our pay; the assumption is that we will still get our job done, either by working harder, staying late, or coming in early. Now, this is not a public school, and I am admittedly looking at this from a private sector perspective. I have an employee who can help influence legislation either directly or indirectly that might help my business?
Finally, you really have to look at the overall person. I don't agree with her on all issues, but I can't say that this is enough for me to not vote for her.
Last edited on Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 04:03 pm by Fred
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truth dude
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 01:13 pm |
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| Fred it almost sounds like you are on Queen Nancy's payroll. She has been double dipping for more than a decade but that doesn't seem to bother you. I agree the CSD should do something about it. Maybe the lawsuit by this Reeder guy will make them get off their own corrupt butt. Especially if they want another referendum passed.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Nov 2nd, 2006 12:29 pm |
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Of all the things to worry about in an election, Nancy Wagner's status at work is of low concern to me. It WAS interesting that they allowed her special privledges such as Comp Time and Flex Time, but did not offer that to other employees....but that is a School District issue, not Nancy's.
I have heard squat from her opponent. I've seen the signs, but I have at least seen Nancy in the neighborhood. I am open-minded to change, but not simply for change sake. Nancy has done nothing so far to deserve to be voted out.
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curiousindover
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 11:35 pm |
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| Working hard is a relative thing. It depends on what one is working on or who they are working for. If there's anyone unhappy with Nancy, they should vote her out. If they can't vote or don't vote, shut it!
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; )
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 04:46 pm |
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| Rep Wagner's campaign material says "Nobody Works Harder". I have to agree. No other Delaware Representative has worked as hard to line their pockets with our tax dollars than Nancy has.
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truth dude
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 11:57 am |
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| When Rep. Nancy gets hubby Bud the job especially during a hiring freeze for state employees it is FAIR. Ms. Wagner was even on a legislative task force that filed a written complaint against former DOT Secretary Hayward about nepotism in the hiring process but nary a mention of Bud's hiring. You bet the insertion of Hubby Bud into Nancy Wagner's behavior is FAIR.
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curiousindover
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 10:49 am |
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| It's what happens, LCR, when you are retired.
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LCR
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 12:31 am |
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You seem to have so much time on your hands following people around, you might want to consider running for office so Ms. Wagner can teach.
curiousindover wrote:
Unfair folks. Ms. Wagner's husband isn't running for office and he does not work for DelDOT, or the Public Defender. He now works for the Department of Correction. As for Ms. Wagner, was she on Capital School District time or on Legislative time when she was in Legislative Hall on Monday afternoon. Just curious.
Last edited on Wed Nov 1st, 2006 12:31 am by
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curiousindover
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Posted: Wed Nov 1st, 2006 12:08 am |
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| Unfair folks. Ms. Wagner's husband isn't running for office and he does not work for DelDOT, or the Public Defender. He now works for the Department of Correction. As for Ms. Wagner, was she on Capital School District time or on Legislative time when she was in Legislative Hall on Monday afternoon. Just curious.
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nobull
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Posted: Tue Oct 31st, 2006 04:47 pm |
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| Fred -- you should be happy to learn that during the time Bud Wagner was a CSD Board Member Rep. Nancy was given an additional month on her standard 10 month teaching contract because she claimed she didn't have enough time to finish her school work during the normal school year. Perhaps if she spent more time in her primary job and less time at legislative hall the taxpayer's wouldn't have to pay her an additional 6 to 7 thousand dollars each year. Incidently, during the State of Delaware hiring freeze several ago husband Bud Wagner got a nice high paying job with the Department of Transportation. Of course, Nancy had nothing to do with it!!!!
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DissolveCapital
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Posted: Sun Sep 24th, 2006 12:54 pm |
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Poltergeist wrote: DissolveCapital wrote: I'd like to hear from someone close to DHS on this question? Does Rep Nancy Wagner actually teach at your school??
The silence is deafening...
It seems there are several possibilities for the lack of DHS response:
1. No one from DHS reads these posts
2. Nancy is not well-known within the school
3. Nancy has a such a strangle hold on things people there are afraid to respond.
In the meantime I am still waiting for an answer. I can't even find one on the district website!
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curiousindover
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Posted: Sun Sep 24th, 2006 11:00 am |
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| Oops, LCR. You're showing your lack of knowledge, again. Kaza is not a doctor.
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LCR
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Posted: Sun Sep 24th, 2006 12:05 am |
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| Ms. Kaza is a physician so I doubt she will be a full time politician.
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curiousindover
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Posted: Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 11:39 pm |
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| If ever there was a time for change, this is it. Look at the record. Nancy has been a good legislator. Nancy has been vocal for her constituents. Nancy has been prolific in her legislative introductions. Problem is, Nancy is a "has been". Time for a change. Lets ask if she believes in making the legislature subject to FOIA. I'd doubt it! Ms. Kaza has said that she believes in more open government, and will be a full time legislator. That has my vote!
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DissolveCapital
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Posted: Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 02:21 pm |
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Mr. Anderson,
She is a career politician. She is taking two paychecks from the state. We need genuine representation in Dover from real working people. Nancy's served her time (perhaps admirably). I am not sure Kaza is the answer either. But I will tell you this, Legislative Hall should not be a Hall of networkers and compromisers. Rather it should be the place where the needs of all Delawareans are openly discussed and met. Nancy's brash, insensitive style of leadership excludes a large portion of her constituency. It may not happen this round, but Nancy needs to be voted out!
Frankly Mr. Anderson I am surprised that your words are so warm and cozy! I hope you have not lost touch with what needs to happen in Dover. I support you because of the unique working class qualities that you will bring to leadership.
Last edited on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 02:25 pm by DissolveCapital
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davidlanderson
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Posted: Thu Sep 21st, 2006 02:42 am |
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curiousindover wrote: What surprises me is how many bills Nancy introduces that never get passed. If people realized that legislators get publicity simply for introducing laws, they'd be offended.
Bottom line is that Nancy has gotten precious few pieces of legislation passed since entering the state legislature. and she ignores the truly needed when working her bills.
She has a pretty good ratio for passage. She has gotten more passed in one year than several have gotten passed in their entire carreers. Look at the record over the last 4 years. Add to that some items end up in a changed form in a committee bill with a different lead sponsor. Yes, frankly, there are a few bills, I hope don't pass. We have a somewhat different view of government power.
I am glad that sometimes she will introduce legislation at the request of citizens trying to bring up issues. Educating people on issues and building momentum for change is not a knock against someone.
She is a believer in Initiative and Referendum (a co-sponsor or prime house sponsor every session). She has also introduced common sense amendments which protect people's rights.
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Sep 20th, 2006 03:23 pm |
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| I defend what I think is fair. I enjoy fair criticism of anyone, but have taken exception when those who aren't making headway with the facts veer off into personal attacks, or side issues. I don't see the big issue with this.
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DissolveCapital
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Posted: Wed Sep 20th, 2006 10:20 am |
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| It seems the Capital School District created this "Tech Prep" Teacher position to win the favor of the District Nancy represents. I have no problem with this from Nancy's position. The Capital School District however continues to demonstrate poor use of its taxpayer resources. Dissolve Capital! Dissolve it now!!
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Habanero
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Posted: Wed Sep 20th, 2006 04:14 am |
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Fred, you're defending a "Republican"?????????
I put the word "republican" in quotes because Nancy Wagner is no more a true Republican than I am the Queen of England.
She's far more to your liking, a nanny-statist.
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