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Punky
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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Whew!!!! .....2 times.......
If it's any comfort, I had a "procedure" last Tuesday! You know I can relate.......the husband, and then me.
Now back to our differences of opinion.....to keep the adrenalin pumping 
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 04:12 pm by Punky
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 04:03 pm |
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Punky thanks I know you mean it sincerely. More tests today and I have to go to Kent General tomorrow for a procedure. FYI: the car is parked..so that's a sigh of relief 
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Punky
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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| Blues.......hope all went well last week, Really!
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:37 pm |
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double post sorry
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:38 pm by Bluesman
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:24 pm |
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scrp1117 wrote: Well the truth finally comes out. Bluesman after reading your story about what happen to your mother, it is definatly clear that is what fuels your negative opinion about police.
The truth finally comes out?
What's the truth about you? That even after reading what happened to my mother all you can derive from it is where my "negative opinion" comes from.
What fuels your desire to make broad assumptions, I have no problem with LEO never have in the general and broad context.
I have a problem with police officers who are criminals and get away with it. I have a problem with other officers who cover up criminal activities by members of their rank and file. No different than any other professional.
You obviously can't differentiate between the two.
scrp1117 wrote: Bluesman all your information is based on 2, let me repeat 2 witnesses. I find that funny. One of which is the marines ex-wife. Your one gullible person.
Sorry you are incorrect.
The woman with the children was the ex wife of the member of the Pagans. She was not Derek Hales ex-wife. The house was the womans and her ex's, Derek Hale was there house sitting, for the guy.
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:38 pm by Bluesman
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Punky
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:17 pm |
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http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/feloniouslykilled.html
These are stats regarding police deaths in 2006. The year 2007 has not yet been published. Why these honorable men and women put their lives on the line, on a daily basis, I'll never know. Police must react within a split second, and I trust their judgment. If they feel threatened, I agree they should immediately retaliate, instead of pondering what to do. There's no time to hesitate. There may be a bad apple in every bunch, I agree, just like in all professions.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 03:14 pm |
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imnoone wrote: Like I said before you have chosen to believe the two witnesses that were present. I myself will believe the officers and the Ag's. Why you have chosen to believe them is beyond me. Im guessing that you have had a biased opinion from the start.
And yours is unbiased ?
Why do I believe the witnesses over the cops, or the DE AG because if the guy had wanted to kill anyone he would have had his legal firearm with him. He was licensed to carry concealed in VA, which has reciprocity with DE so he would have been perfectly legal in doing so. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
People ARE willing to risk their careers and it happens every day of the week, LEO isn't excluded from the group. They don't think they will ever get caught, and many don't unfortunately. The personal case I cited taught me all I need to know about the criminals who hide behind a badge and a uniform. They are a minority, but they do exist, and anyone who thinks it doesn't is a fool.
My opinion isn't biased, it's honest. I have the utmost respect for LEO and have done benefit shows for LEO organizations in the past, and will continue to do so.
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imnoone
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:52 pm |
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| Like I said before you have chosen to believe the two witnesses that were present. I myself will believe the officers and the Ag's. Why you have chosen to believe them is beyond me. And your graphic is based on there testimony. So I will take it for what its worth. Im guessing that you have had a biased opinion from the start. Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:56 pm by imnoone
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scrp1117
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:49 pm |
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| Bluesman all your information is based on 2, let me repeat 2 witnesses. I find that funny. One of which is the marines ex-wife. Your one gullible person.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:46 pm |
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imnoone wrote: This is going nowhere. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. And and fyi to you, the use of force policies are not subject to the foia. I dont where you received your info but it is incorrect.
Current lawsuit started in NH Superior Court by Kingcast, a media group, in regard to the May 11, 2007 double homicide investigation. The Town of Franconia as well as the NH AG are the defendents in the suit. The Superior court judge has already ruled in favor of the plaintiff, Kingcast on a number of key issues.
1) The procedures and policy manuals (including adendums for use of OC spray, Tasers, non letal and deadly force) for the Franconia Police Dept were deemed to fall under the scope of the FOIA.
2) The officers personnel file complete with 10 formal complaints filed by citizens for his use of excessive force, was deemed to fall under the scope of the FOIA as well and released. It also included a formal complaint from the chief of police in a neighboring community.
3) Previously unreleased dash cam videos of the officer using excessive force.
4) The NHAG had to release all the files over 1,000+ pages of their investigation of the May 11, 2007 shooting.
This happened in a community of less than 1,000 people on a 3 man police department.
Back to the Derek Hale case. Like they say a picture is worth 1,000 words. Graphic of officers positions and events, according to witnesses' statements.
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scrp1117
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:45 pm |
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| Well the truth finally comes out. Bluesman after reading your story about what happen to your mother, it is definatly clear that is what fuels your negative opinion about police.
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imnoone
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 12:33 pm |
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| This is going nowhere. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. And and fyi to you, the use of force policies are not subject to the foia. I dont where you received your info but it is incorrect.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:44 am |
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Darkness,
I didn't say 3 rounds was an extreme amount. What I stated was if the cop was a professional one shot at point blank range was sufficient.
Just as tasering Derek Hale once was sufficient....there is a difference between necessary force and sending a message.
The officers actions that day weren't to subdue a suspect (he wasn't he was a "person of interest" ) with absolutely no criminal background. The mentality was one of a police state squad, to send a message.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:33 am |
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curiousindover wrote: If you refused to stop, at the command of a police officer, then tried to run after exiting your vehicle, you got what you deserved. Sorry, I don't have ANY sympathy for someone who leads police on a 2 hour slow speed chase or any chase at all. Our driving laws are meant to be obeyed. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Obey the rules or walk. Why do people like you keep trying to gain public sympathy? Just curious.
To bad the judges don't adhere to the laws they are sworn to uphold. What message does it send to a new teenage driver who gets 2 speeding tickets within a 2 1/2 week period one for 83 in a 55 and one for 72 in a 55, and the judge gives the child a slap on the hand, and is still driving. As I said to the judge 30 MPH over is a automatic suspension in this state, what the hell difference is there between 28 over and 30 over. If the person hits your families car they will be just as dead from their injuries.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:23 am |
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imnoone wrote: What is it with you two and corruption? Why do the both of you insist that there is corruption in this case. Do you really believe that the dozen or so officers are going to conspire with one another in an attempt to cover something up? I dont see any of them doing so by risking there careers. If it were only one or two officers involved I might consider it. But there were many officers from more than one agency involved. FYI, police officers are trained to shoot a double tap, two rounds at once, when they do. They are also trained to shoot to kill, not to wound a suspect. I just cant believe that you choose to believe the two witnesses over the trained officers and the Ag's. Especially when they are questionable witnesses at best. If you know something that I dont know please share it with me. If you dont you sound pretty pathetic in assuming otherwise.
Imnoone,
Professional police officers are trained to use deadly force as a last option not as the first.
If the Wilmington Police Department has nothing to hide then why are they still refusing to release their procedures and policy handbook on the use of force.
FYI : The release of such material is covered under the FOIA and it has been upheld in numerous federal cases requesting such information.
Look at the suits brought against Wilmington Police Department some as far back as 10 years ago. Most of them similar cases of excessive force, police brutality, racial profiling. One example a man held for 19 months in jail awaiting trial for allegedly molesting his child, then the Wilmington Police Department decides they don't have enough evidence to prosecute the man, after 19 months.
Derek Hale:
What made the woman not credible because she is the ex wife of a Pagan, that's pretty bigoted of you. Maybe the state should take her child as well.
A contractor who happened upon the scene is not credible either based on what?
You dismiss the fact that when the contractor complained one officer stated "I'll show you outta control"
You dismiss the fact that none of the officers had anything on that identified them as police which is against policy and procedure.
You dismiss the fact that none of the other officers on the scene felt threatened. You dismiss the fact that the reports provided to the officers (including Lt. Brown) from their own surveillance teams that the man was unarmed.
You dismiss the fact that no arrest warrant had been issued as the DSP claim when they made the call to the VA police to conduct a search warrant of Mr. Hales home in VA.
You dismiss the fact that Derek Hale was not indicted by the grand jury for any criminal activity (because there was no evidence to support any claims of illegal activity on Mr. Derek Hales part). The last I knew the judicial system doesn't justify killing someone for the ignorant assumption of "guilt by association."
I personally have nothing against LEO but I do have plenty of problems with LEO who think they are above the law. The ones who can and do get away with crimes because they wear a uniform, carry a badge, and are given a free pass.
Read a federal GAO report on the use of tasers:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05464.html
Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:07 pm by Bluesman
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Darkness
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 01:48 am |
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You Kirk make a good argument but you fail to use that same argument to balance yourself. You could debate the Chief of Police of Wilmington and I must certainly believe you would argue all of the facts that you believe are true. Yet he would also argue his facts which may be in complete contrast to yours. Now, who are we to believe, I don’t really have that answer right now as I only have been able to read the facts that you have presented. But I do know this investigations and research into the Use of Force has revealed many new and previously unknown facts about how deadly force confrontations take place. They may surprise you and others, that there can be different perceptions on what is a threat and what is not. As to bluesman’s comments about the 3 rounds that should not surprise anyone, it is not an extreme number of rounds. I would disagree with imnoone that officers are trained to shoot to kill but rather they are trained to shoot to stop the threat if that means the subject dies then so be it. As for the science behind use of force confrontations visit the Force Science Research Center’s website. They prove with science not all use of force involving unarmed or armed subjects can be taken at face value or even the testimony of an eyewitness can not be totally believed. They have shown it is possible for an officer to shoot a subject in the back, who when the decision to shoot was made was facing the officer. So, let’s all just wait for the facts to come to light.
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imnoone
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 12:32 am |
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| Just tell me where you have gotten your facts, other than from the two witnesses that were there. And you know nothing about me and I feel sorry for you.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 11:10 pm |
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I know a few things. My name is in bold letters, yours isn't. I believe in reality, you are trying to paint a false reality. I believe in civil rights, you believe only in police power. I believe in equality, you are not even close. I believe in the justice system, you believe the police are the justice system. I believe all people have the potential to lie given the right circumstances, you believe only a certain type of person lies. I believe all men and women are created equal, which is directly contrary to what you believe. I value all life as equal, you have different values of life for different people. I believe everyone has the freedom to express their views, you would prefer forums like this didn't exist.
You sir, are satisfied with the result, not if the result was right, but the result as it is. There's a new world out there that you would prefer we don't know about. There is information we have access today that was never available before. Your picture of the perfect republican nation has been unmasked by news media and new personal technology. We, as citizens, are becoming more and more educated about the true nature of our governments and the officials that run them. We are now opening the prison gates to people that have spent 15, 20, 30 or more years behind bars for crimes they didn't commit. We are learning there is corruption everywhere from small companies to the United Nations and you want us to believe that it's not possible in our little state. Right now we have at least 10% of our total inmate population that are innocent, still locked away and I'll bet at least 10% of that was due to trumped up evidence or police that lied.
So I choose to think for myself and because people like you say it's so I choose not to believe you. I would not hesitate for a second to debate the Chief of the Wilmington Police Department in an open public forum as to the facts of this case, but we all know that due to ongoing legal litigation none of them can comment on the facts of the case. You don't have any problem debating as long as you can hide behind a screen name. You may as well just phone your comments in to Sound Off where those people hide behind being annonymous too. I can almost picture you dressed in black paramilitary gear with that black ski mask pulled over your face to hide your identity. A voice with out a face is like having no voice at all. I thought only bad guys wore masks, now I'm not sure who the bad guys are anymore.
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imnoone
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 03:27 pm |
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| What is it with you two and corruption? Why do the both of you insist that there is corruption in this case. Do you really believe that the dozen or so officers are going to conspire with one another in an attempt to cover something up? I dont see any of them doing so by risking there careers. If it were only one or two officers involved I might consider it. But there were many officers from more than one agency involved. FYI, police officers are trained to shoot a double tap, two rounds at once, when they do. They are also trained to shoot to kill, not to wound a suspect. I just cant believe that you choose to believe the two witnesses over the trained officers and the Ag's. Especially when they are questionable witnesses at best. If you know something that I dont know please share it with me. If you dont you sound pretty pathetic in assuming otherwise.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 10:44 am |
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imnoone wrote: Ill try this again, the Ag's investigated the incident and found that there was NO CRIME. So there will be no criminal charges, no jury, and thats the end of it. Civil suits are joke. They cost too much money to defend and typically they are settled out of court for the simple fact that it saves money. You probably believe OJ was innocent too. You have your mind made up no matter what is said. You were not there so you have no idea what happened nor do I. I simply choose to believe the officers that were there and those that investigated it over an ex-wife of a pagan and unknown witness. Not everyone tells the truth and the fact you would believe these two over the professionals is mind boggling. You have no evidence that there is or was any police corruption and obviously have questionable intentions. Have you asked yourself why he was a person of interest? Im sure its not because he was just delivering toys. Open your eyes, not everyone is as innocent as you might think. I am curious to know if you have ever been arrested for anything. Because if you have it might go a long way as to why you say what you do about the police.
So the AG is the end all be all. Of course we know there are no corrupt AG's now are there. FYI it's not the end of it just because the AG says so. A new investigation can happen at any time.
Professionals? If the actions had been professional that day Derek Hale would be alive still. You take the word of the officers??...
How about the fact that no other officer on the scene was in fear for their life or immediate safety that day.
Professional? 3 - .40 cal rounds at point blank range...one should have been sufficient if Brown was a professional as you claim.
It's whats not said that speaks louder than the words of a person trying to save their ass from a murder charge.
You obviously have your mind made up as well....
Why was Derek Hale a person of interest ? Same reason you use as an excuse for his murder "guilt by association, he was a Pagan." Even though in this country we are taught "innocent until proven guilty." Derek Hale had NO record what at all. Derek Hale had a LTC yet the cop "claims" they found a switchblade on Derek. I don't believe that he was carrying a switchblade for one minute.
There are cops that steal, drive drunk, do drugs, rape, lie and murder, etc. ...they are humans. When they do wrong they should face the same consequences as any other citizen.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 08:45 am |
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My goodness, just as you would like the public to believe the witness is lying, the ex-wife is not credible, you also want to re-focus on the fact I am opposed to the police in general instead of the murder. That, my friend, is so untrue. I believe the police in general are a well oiled machine with a difficult job to perform. The majority of them deserve and get my respect because they are professional, polite and well qualified to be an officer. 99% of the actions officers take deserve 100% of the public's backing and 75% of the time they get it. Police officers volunteer their time to support human interest events like the special olympics among dozens of others. They are constantly on the job even when they are off and they spend many more hours away from their families than most other people. They witness and experience the lowest of lows our society has to offer and need to take every call with a 100% height of awareness. This is not a job meant for everybody and not anybody can do that job. The majority of the police officers have 100% of my respect.
What you will never convince me of is the fact that A; a very small percentage should be able to stand with the same pride and viewed with the same professionalism as the other 99%, and B; that our government never makes bad decisions. You sound so furious that a mere citizen would question the actions of the police and the government. Maybe we should just hide in our homes, overlook violations of civil rights and keep our mouths shut because when we speak we can expect a complete spin to our words and fear government reprisals. And just so I'm clear at what your saying let me repeat what I think you said. Because a single police officer who incidently is employed by the government took the life of an innocent citizen and that same officer and incident was investigated by various government departments who found him to be justified in his murderous actions, then it's ok. Well there ya have it, my view of this whole thing is warped, lacks any validity and because you say so, I should drop this thing too. My oh my did I completely misunderstand my role as a human being. Thank you for reminding me of my place and how gracious I should be that I am protected by thugs when I visit the city of Wilmington. I hope they continue to protect us from people who are contemplating a criminal act and before they have an oppotunity to go through a red light or maybe jaywalk they get shot dead. This whole country would be better off if the Wilmington Police Department ran it because they know way beforehand that an individual is going to commit a crime, but not only that, they can predict that the crime is going to be violent enough that it warrants the death penalty. They can save us all so much time and money by not giving citizens a trial and go directly to the funeral. I am so wrong to question those actions.
But just in case we have forgotten about the real victim, here is a picture of that potentially violent human being that no doubt, because the Wilmington Police Department said so, was somewhere in the next 50 or so years, going to commit an act of violence that would have gotten him the death penalty.
Attachment: derek.jpg (Downloaded 128 times)
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imnoone
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 11:19 pm |
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| Ill try this again, the Ag's investigated the incident and found that there was NO CRIME. So there will be no criminal charges, no jury, and thats the end of it. Civil suits are joke. They cost too much money to defend and typically they are settled out of court for the simple fact that it saves money. You probably believe OJ was innocent too. You have your mind made up no matter what is said. You were not there so you have no idea what happened nor do I. I simply choose to believe the officers that were there and those that investigated it over an ex-wife of a pagan and unknown witness. Not everyone tells the truth and the fact you would believe these two over the professionals is mind boggling. You have no evidence that there is or was any police corruption and obviously have questionable intentions. Have you asked yourself why he was a person of interest? Im sure its not because he was just delivering toys. Open your eyes, not everyone is as innocent as you might think. I am curious to know if you have ever been arrested for anything. Because if you have it might go a long way as to why you say what you do about the police.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 08:55 pm |
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So here's one for ya. There is a civil suit. Hypothetically the civil suit is won by the estate of Derek Hale. Or we all know there is a great chance the suit will never make it to the court because of a higher interest in keeping the true facts out of the public eye. If either one of those scenerios is played out the only thing one can assume is the shooter is guilty. Does the fact a large amount of money is paid from the taxpayers equal enough punishment for one individual choosing to take the law into his own hands? Are you willing to take $100.00 out of your pocket and give it to Derek's estate if the officer is innocent? Are you willing to take that same $100.00 out of your pocket and give it to the estate if the officer is guilty? Where would you rather put your $100.00 because this incident is going to cost us a whole lot of money either way you look at it. I would rather take my tax dollars and pay the state to do it's job and try the officer.
If I were a witness I would resent the fact you would question my history because I chose to do the right thing, but then again, it makes sense to question the public and apply enough pressure to witnesses so none of them report what they see. Let the witnesses and the police battle it out in criminal court before a jury and let the people decide. Let us hear all the facts without hiding behind internal investigations and conclusions made by your own employer who has as much to lose as the perpetrator. Either clear Derek's name or condemn his actions, but put it before a jury and let them decide.
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imnoone
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 06:47 pm |
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| Kirk, It sounds as if you are basing your opinion of this event on what has been written. I have read everything that I have been able to find and it appears that it is very one sided. The opinions are based on the eye witnesses, which include the ex-wife of a pagan member and a contractor that was across the street. It also appears that you choose to ignore the fact that the Ag's office investigated the incident and cleared all of those who were involved. So you choose to believe someone that was undoubtedly involved with the pagans themselves and a contractor that we know nothing of his history. Maybe this contractor is a criminal also and wants to make the police look bad. There is always two sides to a story and because I was not there for this incident I am going to choose to believe the professionals that were there and those that have investigated it and cleared those involved. I will also choose to question the facts given by a known associate of the pagans (ex-wife of the homeowner) and an unknown contractor of which we know nothing about. Last edited on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 06:49 pm by imnoone
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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1975 Basic Training at Fort Knox Kentucky, AIT at Fort Gordon Ga. Military Police Illisheim Germany, American Spirit Honor Medal receipient, Honorable Discharge in 1978 from Fort Dix New Jersey. 1978 to 1980 Correctional Officer at Delaware Correctional Center in Smyrna Delaware, unarmed, untrained and undermanned.
In 1978 there were 1200 inmates in a prison designed, I believe, for 900. Our only support came from the few officers that were on duty at the same time we were. We had no tasers, no guns, no night clubs and no handcuffs but we dealt with known convicted felons that had allready proven they were violent. Inmates by far possess more weaponry and oppoertunity to do as much physical damage on the inside as they did on the outside. Our means of defense was restraint without body armor, helmets, shin guards or elbow pads.
And your right, SCRP, your exherting unneccessary energy and proving that the word assume contains the two defining words of the individual from who's mouth they were spoken. They only argument you have is Derek Hale was a member of a known outlaw motorcycle gang therefore he got what he deserved. And point number two you keep throwing up is I don't support the police.
Yes, Derek was part of the Pagans that suprisingly enough was tagged outlaw by our government, the same government that Derek Hale risked his life serving. The rest of the arguments of why it was murder has been repeated constantly on this blog. Maybe, SCRP, you forgot your commitment. Regardless of what others believe Derek Hale was, unproven allegations, he is a Marine and it's up to every Marine to stand by a Marine without question. In case you don't know what that means. If he's homeless extend him a hand, if he's dying say a prayer, if he's in danger provide him security, if he's on drugs help to show him the course, if he's commited a crime help him change his ways and if he's unemplyed help him to find a job. Those were your commitments you accepted when you became a Marine. A Marine stands high above all because of their strong bond with each other. Maybe that's all smoke because I came from the Army, trained with the Marines, thought they were obnoxious hardheads and had constant debates with them during AIT. But, today as a vet, I see the importance of our entire brotherhood and sisterhood. Maybe I'm seeing a liitle more clearly the phrase, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." than one of his own. The next time, SCRP, you attend one of your Marine get togethers, you can tell everyone how you stood strong in the face of controversy to extend your absolute bond to another Marine.
Point number two. I am a complete supporter of the police, I even bought the jam every year. I recognize the difficult job they perform and the split second decisions individualy they have to make. I appreciate their service and I envy their mental ability to keep everything in perspective even though they see things most of us never experience. But like the Marines there is allways that one out of a hundred that can cast a black eye on the majority. Right now the Marines have Lauren running from a murder charge and the police have Wilmington running from one. Catch them both and put them both before a court of law to judge their guilt or innocense. No one gets a free ticket for taking a life. Let me reinforce that, a "life."
And once again here is a picture of an innocent man.
Attachment: derek.jpg (Downloaded 121 times)
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 10:18 am |
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scrp117
You seem to forget, Mr. Hale had absolutely no criminal record, nor was he indicted when other Pagan members were. You seem to forget all the intel that was provided immediately prior to the confrontation.
You seem to forget that a badge and a uniform aren't a license to kill. Yes there are LEO who overstep the line, and Lt. William Browns actions clearly demonstrate that.
Allow me to use your logic and lump all LEO together as you lump Mr. Hale a criminal, based on a small percentage of a group who have criminal records.
Seems you forgot Toys for Tots gave the chapter of the Pagans in question a plaque again for their involvement, shortly after Mr. Hales murder.
Wilmington PD has a fairly well documented history of rogue LEO's.
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scrp1117
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Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 04:30 am |
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| KIRK YOU SEEM TO BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO DO ALL THE COMPLAINING ABOUT SOCEITY AND THE POLICE AND CONTRIBUTE NOTHING. OH AND BY THE WAY, FYI I SERVED IN OIF IN 2003 WITH THE 1ST MARINE DIV INFRANTRY SO YOUR NOT GONNA GET ANY MILITARY SYMPATHY FROM ME. YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR IN FOR WHEN YOU SIGN THE CONTRACT. WHEN DID U SERVE AND WHERE? PROBABLY STATESIDE. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU KEEP OVER SEEING THE FACT THAT HE WAS PART OF A KNOWN CRIMINAL CLUB AND IT WAS OKAY BECAUSE HE SERVED IN THE MILITARY. I BET YOU DONT HESITATE TO CALL THE POLICE WHEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. HERES AN IDEA HOW ABOUT YOU GO JOIN THE CITIZENS POLICE ACADEMY. MABYBE THAT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES ON HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO BE A POLICE OFFICER. THIS IS MY LAST BLOG, IM LOSING BRAIN CELLS EVERY TIME I RESPOND TO ONE OF YOUR BLOGS. THE MARINES ARE BEING USED TO HELP FORGET WHAT MR. HALE WAS REALLY A PART OF WHEN HE WAS UNFORTUNALTY SHOT. SO I GUESS ITS OKAY FOR ME TO GO ROB A BANK BECAUSE I SERVED IN THE MILITARY.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 09:26 am |
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Just as you said, I have way too much time on my hands. But regardless of how many hours are in a day and how I decide to use mine are pretty much my business and the last I checked there was no statute of limitations on murder. Now that we have vollyed sarcastic comments back and forth, as a citizen with prior military history and a reckless abandon for fairness, I find this incident and all of the actions that took place that day to be in complete violation of almost every wartime law we have in the treatment of P.O.W.'s let alone a citizen on private property in our own country. There is a commitment that not only the Marines have but all veterens should respect and that commitment is to "stand for those who stood for us." Every veteren in this country has sacrificed a period in their life to prepare for the defense of our nation. Our country has a history of disrespect and short memory when it comes to the long term affects of war and our service members. Those of us that served made several commitments to each other during our service and those commitments don't stop once we leave the service. Alot of you need a humanity reality check. You need to visit the military hospitals or spend time in Arlington, spend some time with the homeless on the streets or go to base housing where families are seperated for months at a time. That's the reality of the military and the tolls it takes on our brothers, sisters, moms and dads. Visit a family that has lost one of their own on a battlefield thousands of miles from home.
I don't care, let me repeat that, I don't care what people Derek Hale decided to associate with upon his return to this country. Until he violates a law of this land he is free to move about this country with out fear of his own government just like the rest of us should be. His death was a wake up call for me and should be for every other citizen of this state with any concience of civil rights. Putting everything else aside think of this. This was a twenty-five year old young man. A boy in my mind and at my age. He was a father, a son, a husband and an uncle. He followed every rule of law and established a moral ethical core far superior than a huge part of our population. None of us can say where Derek was headed and until anyone can prove he was a bad apple he stands on his record and his record tells me that I would have been proud to work along side this young man, that I would hire him, that I would not fear him, that he had discipline, he had respect, he had loyalty and he could be trusted.
You ask me why I am so interested in this? For the same reason we all should be. By ignoring it, it will not go away, by ignoring it, it will happen again, by ignoring it, it could happen to me or you. Until my actions ever rise to the occassion that there needs to be physical action to detain me, I expect to be treated with respect, not fear my government, enjoy my life, go where I please, say what I want where and when I want to, associate with whom I please and not think that my life would be taken for doing so.
And again for you all that don't know what it looks like to be a proud Marine.
Attachment: derek.jpg (Downloaded 125 times)
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scrp1117
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Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 02:29 am |
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| First off KIRK, it seems like you have way too much time on your hands. Yes i am wasting my time replying to your blogs, but i could not read anymore of your garbage. If your not aware the pagans are a criminal organization of which Mr. Hale was a memeber of, yes his death is tragic but to say he was mudered by police is crazy. It is easy for you to say what should of been done in the comfort of your home. Police officers approach strangers every day not knowing if they are armed with weapons, or have just committed a crime and would do anything to get away i.e. trying to kill the police officer. The incident was investigated and all persons involved were cleared. My ? to you KIRK is why are you bringing this incident up now after 2 years. ? What are you trying to accomplish?
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Bluesman
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 10:22 am |
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Kirk,
I haven't forgotten about the other files. I'm trying to get them all together to send you.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Thu Feb 7th, 2008 03:19 am |
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| I agree with everthing you just wrote. It is time to call on the lawmakers and Attorney General's office to answer those questions. They certainly have enough to take this to a court of law. Murder should not be tolerated in any form.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Wed Feb 6th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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lookingforlaughs,
It's a good thing you got out. I want to focus on a comment you made. "No one is above the law"
That's right NO ONE is especially the men and women who have sworn to uphold the law and are entrusted with the safety of EVERY citizen of the community.
The cops screwed up PERIOD! Read the evidence, the reports by their own surveillance people don't support the actions of the officers let alone the officer who murdered Derek.
8-12 officers and only 1 felt threatened. This cop wasn't a rookie mind you but a seasoned veteran with a questionable past record. He had also just witnessed numerous WPD, DSP, and Federal violations in regard to the use of a taser.
The police tried to cover their tracks by claiming this was part of an ongoing investigation. According to logs and statements by the surveillance team Derek was only a person of interest, at the onset and was never indicted because there was nothing to charge him with.
After watching him the surveillance team in fact determined DEREK was NOT a THREAT and DID NOT HAVE a weapon in his sweatshirt pocket. They had not witnessed any illegal activity either. This information was known to all the officers including officer Brown.
The officers claim they found a switchblade on him. That makes no sense when it is a known fact Derek had a LTC PP issued out of VA.
Derek could have come to DE with his firearm for protection and been completely legal and within his rights to carry his firearm.
There are far more questions than answers. Atypical police and government agencies try to justify an officers actions such as these that went so blatantly wrong on the victim. This is a slap in the face to every citizen of the community.
To launch a campaign to tarnish and disgrace a decorated veteran of the United States Marine Corp. and his memory is reprehensible. This man served his country in time of war, to protect the very freedoms that these police officers denied him. He protected the right of everyone to belong to whatever organization they choose, free from any interference by anyone.
How soon you all forget those were Derek's rights as well. Derek obviously found an allegiance with the Pagans because other former service men also belonged to the group. Were there some bad characters in the bunch, sure their were just like there are bad cops, bad politicians etc..
Guilt by association doesn't warrant being tasered 3 times and shot at point blank range 3 times.....................if it had occured somewhere elsethis government would have labeled it "terrorist attack on innocent victim".............
Last edited on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 11:12 pm by Bluesman
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 01:48 pm |
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The answer to everything is "once you walk in my shoes." I'm not here to judge, just ask for the justice Derek didn't have an opportunity to ask for. Zymergy has a great point. I'm sure Wilmington's response would be that he felt the lives of all 12 were threatened and he took it upon himself to be the hero and save all his fellow officers. I'm sure Derek had an arsenal tucked into his sweatshirt anticipating an attempt to take him into custody and once he could shake off the three taser shots, pick himself up off the ground and begin to pull his weaponry out of his sweatshirt there wouldn't have been any time to wrestle him back to the ground. Or maybe the thought of possibly falling on to his vomit and getting his nice clean black paramilitary uniform and spit shined boots dirty just left a bad taste in his mouth.
I'm sure it's a scary world out there while on patrol and I want to thank you for minimizing the fact I rode with officers, but just how scary do you think it was in Iraq walking through streets and busting down doors looking for terrorists and weapons? I'm sure he didn't expect the same treatment back here in the states.
And once again I will show a picture of the proud.
Attachment: derek.jpg (Downloaded 145 times)
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Zymergy
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 01:09 pm |
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My only question to that whole story is why did only one officer out of four feel threatened enough to shoot the suspect? Why did none of the other fire their weapons? That alone raises serious doubt in my mind.
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lookingforlaughs
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 12:41 pm |
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| Sorry for the mispell. Didn't catch it in time.
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lookingforlaughs
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 12:40 pm |
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| I see you didn't answer the questions! Didm't think you would. Go on believing what you write, that is what Derek fought for. You are right, you can do your Ride Alongs all you want, but when you wear the badge and take on the responsibility it carries then you can judge. I did it in New Jersey for 10 years, and the hardest part is the people who will not accept responsibility for themselves and who don't teach their children respect for anything. All they teach them is that ist is always someone elses problem and that they are exempt from societys rules. Good luck to you and I hope that you never personally have to make the decision that that officer had to make.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 09:45 am |
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http://www.kirkalbertson.wordpress.com Click on the Rutherford Report link, read the lawsuit and then comment sensibly. No drugs, no alcohol or anything else in his system. The whole scenerio is played out right there in the lawsuit. Hooded sweatshirt and sitting on the steps. We treat terrorists with more humanity than we treat our own citizens. If this would have happened overseas and the officers were in the military they would be tried before a military court and would be serving time. There's people in the military doing time for taking pictures of nude known murderers and we can't afford this individual the same rights of justice. There's nobody trying to hide the fact he was associated with the Pagans, but that is irrelevent, and to you the fact he was down on the ground wallowing in his vomit attempting to comply also misses the point. If you want to paint me as hammering the police that is your spin, I am hammering the Wilmington Police Department, the other officers that were present and the one that fired the shots. We judge people on their past performance to come to a conclusion on their present day make-up and Derek's history has been exemplory. I hope the next time I get caught up in something the people allow my family do an internal investigation and report it's findings. All the reasonable citizens know that this was going to be swept with out admission of wrongdoing so it would be lost in time. Put Derek's record up against the officer that shot him, make them both public including all the prior complaints about this officer and let us all see who has the cleaner record.
No one here is hammering the police in general. I respect the job they have to do and realize it requires decisions that the rest of us will never have to make. I have done ride-a-longs with officers in Colorado and Dover and find them to perform their job in a highly professional manner. What you will not admit and what some departments will do to protect a hot wire doesn't serve the public justice. I think as a member of the community I would prefer to hear that the officer in question was tried by a jury of his peers and either cleared or removed from the force and placed in custody. Just as you jump so quickly to burn Derek's reputation and support a rogue officer, I jump equally fast to protect an innocent citizen who up to the point of his death had no record, was not wanted and had no drugs or alcohol in his system. A citizen who's only record we have shows he was dedicated to his country and was decorated for his service in a time of war. A citizen that could no longer be an active Marine due to a medical condition he sufferd in combat only to come home and get slaughtered in the streets of Wilmington. This is one incident that rises to the level of legal public justice, the same justice the rest of us have to participate in when we violate another human's rights, unless of course, the only justice for the shooter and others that follow in his footsteps is homegrown, in which case we are not the land of laws that we boast we are.
So here you go, another picture of a proud Marine who graduated from the toughest boot camp in the military, served two tours in Iraq for you and I and the rest of our non-military population. A picture that shows the pride of the true background history of honesty and cleanliness and a picture that depicts the true identity of Derek Hale.
Attachment: derek.jpg (Downloaded 134 times)
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lookingforlaughs
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 02:44 am |
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no, you missed the point because you are just hammering the Police. If you stated the whole truth you might have a valid point, but yours is a one sided view. The day before the incident there was a narcotics and weapons raid at thet house on know Pagens. If Derek was so honorable, having been a Marine which is in fact admirable , he would have simply complied with the instructions and quite possibly still be alive today. He chose not to for whatever reason be it his gang bravado, drugs or alcohol or whatever. All I am saying is that you are presenting him in his Marine dress and that is not how he presenting himself on his day of fate. Regardless of his former Marine life or whatever life he lead. NOBODY is ABOVE the Law. When have laws in place to disagree with officials, they are called Courts. NOBODY has the right to create a situation in that type of incident. The officers appear to have acted within their authority which has been examined by every agency charged with investigating such incidents and It was declared a proper response. We out here don't know you background, just as I sumise that you didn't really know Dereks'.
Just answer the question of, What do you think the Police would have done if Derek had simply complied with the instruction to take his hands out of his pockets so that they could see he did not have a weapon in his hands?
Do you really believe that any of the officers would have just gunned him down?
If you did any reseach at all, you would know that no ordinary person would have been able to take that many hits from a Taser and still function as he was as stated by citizen witnesses, RESISTING, with out the aid of some drug or alcohol.
All your bable about the police is not going to change anything except to encourage others to resist the efforts of the Police and create more dangerous situations.
What about the other guy on the blog who freely admits to leading the police on a 2 hour slow chase. What about all the people he put at risk? What of all the taxpayer funds and resourses he wasted just because he thought it was his privilage to do it. He should be put away for a long time. We need to start to retrain people that there are social norms in any society and we have laws in place to follow for everyones safety.
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imnoone
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Posted: Tue Feb 5th, 2008 02:01 am |
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| Have you asked yourself why the police were at the house in the first place? Do you really believe he wasnt involved or didnt know what was going on there? Come on now.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 11:46 pm |
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| No Pagan colors and no record yet. Geeze, that's like saying let's shoot him before he goes wrong. Not all Pagans have records. The oldies might, but the new breed could be moving more in a different direction. After all it was a "Toys for Tots" run and "Toys for Tots" was started by the Marines if my memory serves me. And when was the last time any of us saw Pagans around here? Maybe he might not have joined, maybe he was in his probation period, maybe, maybe, maybe. We don't know if anything did happen to him after his service. Marines come from the fabric of this country, they are molded into men and women of high self discipline and pride themselves of serving with honor. Were the Pagans changing him or was he part of a change in the Pagans? He was still an innocent man and untill a court said other he was free to move about this country without interferrence. Last edited on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 11:47 pm by kirkalbertson
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curiousindover
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Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 11:16 pm |
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| I hate to say this, but some of the remarks on this thread ring true. Although I'm saddened by this guy's death and the manner in which it took place, he should have responded to police commands promptly and without hesitation. If police officers were wrong, they should be prosecuted and if found guilty, punished. I too wonder why no photos of him in his Pagan colors have been posted. He may have been a Marine and served with honor, but I wonder what happened to him when he moved into civillian life? Just curious.
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imnoone
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Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 11:01 pm |
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| Lets be honest here. He was a pagan. He just didnt get caught yet, thats why his record was clean.
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kirkalbertson
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Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 08:21 pm |
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| You are obviously a comedian, and honestly, out of all the people that wrote back no one would ever expect you to get the point. I guess maybe as a society we should just gun down anyone that associates themselves with groups you don't approve of. I would put Derek's record up against any one of those officers that took out his life and yours too. As a matter of fact while he was spending scolding days in a desert and sleepless nights on guard duty the rest of us went about our daily life because of people like Derek. Over 3500 Americans have lost their life defending democracy and countless others return home with life altering injuries, Derek being one of them, and all people like you have to say is he got what he deserves. That's a pathetic way to look at human life and what this country is all about. I happen to still feel that human life is the absolute untouchable miracle of miracles and as a brother the death of another brother or sister should not go unaccounted for. Last edited on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 08:21 pm by kirkalbertson
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lookingforlaughs
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