Newszap Forums Home
 Search       Members   Calendar   Help   Home 
Search by username
Not logged in - Login | Register 
Newszap Forums > Delaware Public Forums > Dover Public Issues Forum > Rail proposal still on track -- Officials continue to push for Downstate train system

Rail proposal still on track -- Officials continue to push for Downstate train system
 
 New Topic   Reply   Print 
AuthorPost
Fred
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2005
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posts: 6165
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 01:01 pm
 Quote  Reply 
I agree that growth has gotten out of hand, but there are a few mathematical figures that you can't get away from. One is that our population will continue to grow, regardless of growth zones....we may well be able to manage this growth better, but there are only so many corridors for them to travel on. We could probably get more people on busses, but there have to be a few more busses to give people more options. As an example, the express bus from Wilmington to Dover never gets everyone on who wants it. There is another bus a bit later, but we are now talking about another 30 minutes or so before you get home.  That is unacceptable to many people.

Route 1 has helped dramatically, but it only goes so far up into New Castle County. Our traffic down here up to that point isn't really that bad (in most places), but the feed of traffic contributes to the CF that is in and around Wilmington.

It may well make more sense to focus up in that area for the issue, and to push public transportation even more up there. You are even more stuck for more roads up there then you are here.

I like the idea of rail, but I really doubt we have the numbers to make it worthwhile. You would have to start with something from Wilmington to Newark and hope to build on it's success.

 

Hartlyboy
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 3rd, 2005
Location:  Kenton, Delaware USA
Posts: 1684
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 04:37 am
 Quote  Reply 
One of the aspects of the Comprehensive Plan that Levy Court was supposed to approve [but got sidetracked on] was the upgrade of highways in the growth zone and the stricter enforcement of a growth zone down the 13 corridor. The people working on the plan,  including a cross section of citizens, recognized that just keeping up with necessary upgrades in that concentrated growth corridor would impose very high costs on the transportation funds. To spread the population out in large developments away from that corridor just ensured we'd have even a greater nightmare of traffic problems and less chance of using any kind of efficient public transit system. Rail service will never be the public transit system of choice in lower Delaware. If you think it's expensive to build roads , try laying track. As we grow down here ,if we can't set up compact bus routes that reach up to Wilmington, we'll be in cars for the forseeable future, IMHO. 

Fred
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2005
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posts: 6165
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 10:39 am
 Quote  Reply 
What I am saying is that the government has a vested interest in keeping vehicles off the road to prevent having to build and maintain more infrastructure.

We are spoiled, and we don't want to be inconvienenced in the smallest bit.  I will tell you that there is no way you drive and park from Dover to Wilmington for the cost they charge, even if you doubled it-but if it goes up much, people are willing to pay the additional costs to overcome the uncomfortable feeling of not having a car within 500 yards of you.  I personally think they should cut the subsidy (ie, raise the price they charge), and have emailed DART my sentiments.

Our road infrastructure can't handle more traffic, and the population continues to increase...and there isn't a lot of land to build additional roads, even if we could afford to.

gadsde
Member
 

Joined: Wed Jun 20th, 2007
Location: Camden, Delaware USA
Posts: 34
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 03:29 am
 Quote  Reply 
I am happy to learn that people are using the Dart buses from lower De. to Wilmington area,  meeting their work schedules and leaving their autos behind. I have been totally misinformed about the lack of passengers and the exorbitant cost of operating the buses with too few passengers.  It appears that progress is being made.

bigbear from the north
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 2nd, 2005
Location:  
Posts: 914
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 02:06 am
 Quote  Reply 
The Northeast Corridor, at least the part of it from DC to New York and a fair part of the line in New England as well, is owned by Amtrak. So, I don't think that priority for freight service is really much of an issue there as in other parts of the country where passenger trains generally travel over trackage owned by freight railroads.

Seems to me that the issue for passenger trains in downstate Delaware wouldn't be so much about scheduling conflicts with freight haulers, but with making upgrades to track that would make commuter rail viable. Poultry and grain may not mind bumping along at 25-30 mph, but for people it is a pretty hard sell.

Playing the Game
Member


Joined: Wed Jan 30th, 2008
Location: Delaware USA
Posts: 1174
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 12:11 am
 Quote  Reply 
So Fred, you are saying that when the government (you and me) pay for it, it works.  I don't work in Wilmington and don't feel I should pay for it.

Fred
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 10th, 2005
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posts: 6165
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 07:37 pm
 Quote  Reply 
The long haul buses are generally full, and the express ones don't have enough room for those who want to take them. They are subsidized pretty heavily, though. DART only gets about 20% of it's funding from fares.   However, each bus takes 45 vehicles off the road, and I think there are 5 morning runs to Wilmington, so it is a pretty significant amount of traffic, especially during rush hour.

Cargo service we do have, and that is actually part of the problem on the corridor. The freight has the priority over passengers, so they are somewhat restricted on what they can do.

gadsde
Member
 

Joined: Wed Jun 20th, 2007
Location: Camden, Delaware USA
Posts: 34
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:08 pm
 Quote  Reply 
I think train service may be needed in support of Poulty Plants, Grain growers, etc. but I thought we already had cargo train service. If not, what is that I hear going through Camden-Wyoming each day.

Have we filled the passenger buses yet?  I don't know if we could justify and profitably support passenger train service from Selbyville/Delmar to Wilmington.  Isn't DOT already subsidizing the bus service?  It would be interesting as to how many people from down state who work in Wilmington and could meet their work schedule by train or bus.

tspong
Member
 

Joined: Fri Aug 24th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 591
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Jul 14th, 2008 04:09 pm
 Quote  Reply 
What do you think?

From the Delaware State News:  Rail proposal still on track

Officials continue to push for Downstate train system


By Kate House Layton


Delaware State News


DOVER — Rick and Tish Schuman of Hartly don’t travel as much as they used to.


Because of higher gasoline prices, the couple finds ways to conserve fuel.


"Our house is much cleaner. We don’t go out because we’re bored," Ms. Schuman said. "We find things at home to do."


If Kent County had commuter train service, the couple said it might travel more.


Amtrak in October reported on its Web site that ridership set a record for the most passengers since 1971 when the National Railroad Passenger Corporation began.


Amtrak ridership in fiscal year 2007 increased to more than 25.8 million riders, marking the fifth straight year of gains.


Train service in New Castle County, too, is on the upswing. In fiscal year 2008, which ran from 2007 to 2008, passengers of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority trains increased 3.8 percent, said Kennard L. Potts, director of development for the Delaware Transit Corp. That’s in addition to the 5.8-percent gain in passengers in fiscal year 2006 and the 16.3-percent increase in passengers in fiscal year 2005 for the train service that runs from Newark and Wilmington to Philadelphia.


As gas prices climb to $4 per gallon and above, is this a time to resurrect rail service and extend it Downstate?


Downstate commuter rail service is a subject that’s close to Rep. Nancy H. Wagner’s, R-Dover, heart.


Ever since she broached the concept a few years ago to offer commuter trains from Dover to Wilmington, she reminds her colleagues in the state legislature each session that she hasn’t dropped the idea. This year she’ll bring up the subject again.


"I think the general public is going to demand it," Rep. Wagner said.


The challenge, however, is going to be the cost to set up rail service from Dover to Wilmington.


"The cost currently will be prohibitive," Rep. Wagner said, "But I think we could continue with the planning, so when the monies do open up, we will be ready."


A state task force study done four years ago estimated construction costs for passenger rail from Dover to Wilmington, and eventually from Sussex County to Wilmington, would range from $300 million to $500 million. Ms. Wagner led the task force that studied costs to build and maintain a passenger railroad, the number of passengers who would ride the trains and possible routes.


Despite some repairs to the state’s Transportation Trust Fund, the fund is still $500 million short.


The research from the study, Rep. Wagner said, is still valid.


"There was nothing in that research that said we couldn’t do rail service," she said.


Talking about a need to extend train service in Delaware is like preaching to the choir to people such as Stephen Kingsberry, executive director of the Delaware Transit Corp., which oversees DART bus service.


"You’re talking to the greatest rail enthusiast that you could ever talk to," Mr. Kingsberry said.


Train stations in Newark, Churchmans Crossing, Claymont and Wilmington are crowded, he said. SEPTA has 35 commuter trains that run through Delaware on weekdays and a dozen trains that run on Saturdays. Ridership increased after gas prices went to $3 per gallon, he said.


Ridership increases are also due to more Middletown residents who commute north to Philadelphia, New Jersey and New York. Rail service from Dover to Wilmington would solve the challenge of higher populations south of the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal who travel north every day.


More commuters already are taking DART buses to Wilmington for work or to link with northern commuter trains.


In fiscal year 2008, bus ridership on Route 301 from Dover to Wilmington increased 36 percent over the previous fiscal year with 742 average daily riders, Mr. Potts said.


Cost to bring train service to Kent County, Rep. Wagner estimated, would be cheaper than building more roads.


"In the long term, once you can get the infrastructure in place, it’s fairly cost-effective," she said.


Mr. Kingsberry agrees.


"As population increases, the only alternative will be more mass transit," he said. "You can’t build your way out of more and more traffic."


Dan Wolfensberger, executive director of the Central Delaware Economic Development Council, said it’s never too late for Delaware to consider train service. Had the state made the effort 10 years ago, however, it would have been a cheaper venture, he said.


"You just have to be prepared to pay the price," Mr. Wolfensberger said.


Service, he said, would have to be subsidized some way to make the service affordable. The state also would have to make train crossings safer and build tracks just to carry passenger trains to keep them from interfering with freight trains. He suggested laying tracks near Del. 1.


"The thing with passenger trains is, it’s got to be convenient, it’s got to be comfortable and it’s got to be safe," Mr. Wolfensberger said. Those three factors would attract passengers, he said.


Mr. Wolfensberger said he personally would love to see commuter rail service Downstate and believes residents would ride the train. In Europe, where he lived for 25 years, train service is prevalent.


"Gas is not going to get cheaper," Mr. Wolfensberger said. "You have to find alternatives."


Getting the funds will involve convincing the state legislature and the governor.


"Let’s really look at it," he said. "I think they have looked at it many times; it’s just been a lack of funds.


The timing might be a little more favorable in the coming session.


Delaware’s congressional representatives are boosters for commuter train service in Delaware.


"I am a longtime advocate of commuter rail in general and expanding it into Kent County specifically," said Sen. Thomas R. Carper, D-Del. "Personally, I rely on Amtrak for my daily commute from my home in Wilmington to my Capitol office.


"I believe all Delawareans deserve more transportation options to reduce their driving costs and congestion on our roadways. Expanding train services will lower vehicle emissions from our highways, reduce our reliance on foreign oil and reduce transportation costs, which is the second-largest household expense for Delaware families today."


Rep. Michael N. Castle, R-Delaware, echoed the junior senator.


"In this period of high gas prices and congested roadways, it is critical that we begin investing in alternative travel options like commuter rail and transit systems," Rep. Castle said.


"As a longtime supporter of Amtrak and SEPTA, I believe we should look very closely at the feasibility of expanding rail service to areas in Kent and Sussex counties."


With summer beach, Dover Downs and Delaware State Fair traffic clogging the roads, Downstate train service could prove beneficial, Rep. Castle said.


"Transportation funding is always an issue, but I am prepared to work closely with state officials and the congressional delegation to move such an initiative forward," Rep. Castle said.


Mr. Kingsberry said he makes about eight speeches a month to the legislature and private groups to promote train transit in Delaware.


"It is really just a matter of time," he said. "We need to continue to do the work to make it happen."


Staff writer Ali Cheeseman contributed to this article.


Staff writer Kate House Layton can be reached at 741-8242 or khouse@newszap.com.


 Current time is 02:42 am



Click here to read our Policies & Disclaimers.

Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Copyright © 2003-2006 Aycan Gulez
Page processed in 0.1462 seconds (9% database + 91% PHP). 17 queries executed.