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> Delaware Public Forums > Dover Public Issues Forum > Survey for Dover Commuter Air Service

Survey for Dover Commuter Air Service
 
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Two Cents
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 Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 06:01 pm
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tspong wrote: From the Delaware State News:


Passenger airline possible in Dover



Randal A. Wiedemann, a consultant hired to study the feasibility of offering regular air passenger service in Kent County, said a survey of local residents’ travel habits indicated that Orlando is their favorite leisure destination. They would make 16,000 to 17,000 trips there annually, enough to justify two round-trip jet flights weekly by a leisure or vacation airline, he said.


Right.   16,000 passenger round trips from Dover to Orlando annually.    If one believed that "local residents" would make those trips, is one also to believe that each of the 150 people on each flight would accommodate their travel to the 2 days per week on which the service would be offered?    This is a 737 filled each day, each way, twice each week on average.

Simply stated, this just isn't going to happen.    When the carrier discovers that, the service will be terminated unless the feds, state, county, or city government desire to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize the operation.   Another $150k in taxpayer funds for yet another study of the possibility is squandered.

 

Last edited on Thu Sep 10th, 2009 06:01 pm by Two Cents

gadsde
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 Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 05:39 pm
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We have surveyed this many times in the past.  Has been tried and failed to generate sufficient number of passengers. Hope it will be profitable this time. but still have my doubts. I do not want to subsidize. I use the Balti-Wash airport when I fly because it is easier for me.  I drive there in about one and half hours and then pay $8.00 per day to leave my car there. Kent and Sussex Counties are growing hopefully we can generate sufficient passengers this time. 

tspong
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 Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 04:30 pm
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What do you think?

From the Delaware State News:


Passenger airline possible in Dover


Consultant says route to Florida would make more than $1 million for carrier


By Bruce Pringle


Delaware State News


DOVER — Getting to Disney World could get easier for Downstate residents.


An airline would net an estimated $1.2 million a year if it launched passenger service between Dover and Orlando, Fla., an authority on the economics of air travel reported Wednesday. And he said there is an airline interested in doing just that.


Randal A. Wiedemann, a consultant hired to study the feasibility of offering regular air passenger service in Kent County, said a survey of local residents’ travel habits indicated that Orlando is their favorite leisure destination. They would make 16,000 to 17,000 trips there annually, enough to justify two round-trip jet flights weekly by a leisure or vacation airline, he said.


Mr. Wiedemann said the proposed air service would be based at the Kent County Civil Air Terminal, off Horsepond Road.


That facility already is used heavily by auto racing personnel on NASCAR weekends at Dover International Speedway, but has not hosted regular commercial passenger flights since a small airline, Wings, operated there in the early 1980s.


Re-establishing passenger service could qualify the Civil Air Terminal for federal funding for improvements, which, in turn, could make the facility more attractive to commercial freight carriers, said Dennis Klima, chairman of Kent Economic Partnership.


The nonprofit partnership, which promotes development in Kent County, administers the $150,000 fund paying for the work by the Kentucky-based Mr. Wiedemann. The U.S. Department of Transportation Small Community Air Service Development Program provided 90 percent of the money, with the remainder coming from Dover, Kent County Levy Court and local businesses.


Mr. Wiedemann said he hopes to obtain a commitment within several months from an airline that would serve Dover.


Improving the Civil Air Terminal to meet federal standards would cost an estimated $150,000 and take probably four or five months, he said.


He did not name the airlines with which he has talked on Kent County’s behalf.


Commuter flights iffy


Not all his report was upbeat. He reiterated his contention — first reported in the spring — that commuter air service between Dover and a major airport would be unattractive to an airline unless it were subsidized.


Based on the same survey that determined that flights to Orlando would be profitable, he found that an airline would lose $800,000 to $1.5 million per year under scenarios ranging from 13 to 28 weekly round trips between Dover and Baltimore Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport in Maryland or Washington Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.


But federal subsidies are available and have enabled some communities of Dover’s size to maintain air service that otherwise would not be affordable, Mr. Wiedemann said.


Two airlines are interested in providing such service — using turboprop planes — if they wouldn’t lose money on it, he said.


"An airline is not going to come in on its own and lose money," he said. "They would want some sort of guarantee."


He said he ruled out Philadelphia International Airport as a possible destination for commuter flights from Dover. Kent County residents, he said, can drive to Philadelphia with relative ease.


"The automobile is too difficult to compete against when (a major airport) is that close," he said.


Staff writer Bruce Pringle can be reached at 741-8233 or bpringle@newszap.com.

Playing the Game
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 Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 10:35 pm
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Maybe we could adopt Congressman Murtha from Ohio and get the deluxe airport he had the Feds build so he wouldn't be inconvenienced flying to and from D.C.

Hartlyboy
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 Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 08:01 pm
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Well, at least it provided employment for the guy who did the survey, funded primarily by our tax dollars. Now file it with the other 3 or 4 that said basically the same thing but had no one willing to stick it out and make it reality.

tspong
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 Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 03:19 pm
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What do you think?

From the Delaware State News:

Report optimistic on Dover air service


Growing population, levels of passenger travel are factors


By Bruce Pringle


Delaware State News


DOVER — Passenger air service may be feasible for Dover, according to a cautiously optimistic report from an airline industry consultant.


The report, prepared by Kentucky-based Randall A. Wiedemann, says the Dover area’s growing population and its residents’ existing levels of air travel for business and leisure are among factors that indicate the city might be regarded favorably by an airline seeking a new market — especially if the economy improves.


The recession is "the X factor in all this," Mr. Wiedemann said Tuesday.


His report, issued last month but still little-known locally, was commissioned by the economic development organization Kent Economic Partnership with the support of local governments and businesses. It was funded primarily by a grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation.


It describes a weakening air travel industry, but asserts that local demand suggests there is reason to hope that Dover would sustain a small passenger service.


"Passenger traffic has been worsening in both domestic and international markets and few regions throughout the world are seeing signs of positive growth," Mr. Wiedemann wrote. But he went on to say that in Dover "due to strong core economic and demographic fundamentals, it can be definitively stated that a significant base-level demand for local air services exists. Even with more conservative assumptions ... the demand levels suggest some promise."


In a telephone interview Tuesday, he said the most service Dover reasonably could expect initially would be three departures daily on weekdays — and fewer on weekends — to major airports. An airline willing to take a chance on serving Dover probably would want its operation subsidized, he added.


The federal transportation department helps pay for passenger service for some 140 communities that otherwise might not have it.


Daniel W. Wolfensberger, chief executive officer of Kent Economic Partnership, said Dover has been without regular commercial passenger flights since the early 1980s, when a small airline, Wings, operated from the Kent County Civil Air Terminal off Horsepond Road.


That facility, which utilizes the runway of Dover Air Force Base, meets federal standards for commercial flight, Mr. Wiedemann noted. It is used heavily by NASCAR personnel on race weekends at Dover International Speedway, when private jets line the fence separating the terminal from the industrial buildings of Kent County AeroPark.


Commercial flights to the terminal could mean more customers for Dover Downs Hotel & Casino, said that business’s CEO, Edward J. Sutor.


"It would enable us to bring in more than just regional conventions," he said, explaining that Dover Downs currently markets itself as a convention center only for groups within driving distance, mainly Washington, D.C., to New York.


And it could make Dover Downs more attractive to gamblers, especially after both sports betting and table games become available, Mr. Sutor said.


Mr. Wiedemann, in the next phase of his research, is to examine the costs of passenger service for Dover and determine airlines’ interest in providing it.


To Angela Armutcu, owner of Jetset Travel on South DuPont Highway, local departures to vacation destinations could be a godsend to her clients.


"I think it would be wonderful. Will people pay a little more to fly out of Delaware? Of course," she said. But if a flight is only from Dover to Philadelphia International or Baltimore-Washington International, where vacationers would change planes, its appeal, she said, would be diminished.


"What’s the advantage?" she asked, saying most vacation travelers don’t want to change planes because of the time and effort involved, the possibility of lost luggage and the inconvenience for parents accompanied by small children.


Such service indeed is the sort Dover likely would receive initially, according to Mr. Wiedemann.


His report includes a survey in which local residents indicated they would pay more for local air service "assuming the schedule, frequency, etc. was satisfactory." Business travelers would pay an average of $80 more round-trip ticket to depart from Dover while leisure travelers were willing to add $68 to the price of a ticket.


Whether three to six departures daily would be satisfactory to many Dover travelers is unknown.


"You have to remember, the competition is with the automobile" when an airline offers flights to big-city airports. "The greater the frequency, the better you compete."


Faced with waiting for hours for the next flight, he said, some travelers would prefer driving.


Staff writer Bruce Pringle can be reached at 741-8233 or bpringle@newszap.com.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 10:39 pm
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Not sure anyone would pay $100 to fly across the bay from Dover.  Why on earth would a gambler fly from AC to Dover to play slots with worse payouts than AC?

Fred
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 Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 03:49 pm
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That actually makes more sense, but not sure the racinos would like that...

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 Posted: Thu Apr 2nd, 2009 10:26 pm
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The flight to Atlantic City would be 10 minutes across the bay.

Rad007
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 Posted: Thu Apr 2nd, 2009 06:10 pm
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I think this is an awesome idea......they could also have commuter flights to Atlantic City, NJ (Like Spirit Airlines does). Driving to Philly or Baltimore all the time sucks

stinky
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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 02:36 pm
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see, i think it would work better for dover than wilmington. i wouldn't drive to wilmington to catch a flight to philly. by the time i drive to wilmington, i might as well drive another 30 minutes and save the flight fee from wilmington to philly. but i would certainly fly from dover to philly or bwi to save the 2 hour drive.

 

maybe a couple flights on wednesdays and saturdays to start, to see how it goes. i'm just not sure "seeing how things go" is in any airlines budget right now.

Fred
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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 02:19 pm
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I do think it is something that is worth studying every couple of years. The situation changes as Dover has grown, but there has to be a critical mass of people who want to do this to make it worthwhile...and we are not there, yet.

Part of the problem is that a commuter flight doesn't help much. Getting me from Salisbury or Wilmington to BWI or Philly isn't helping. Getting me to a major hub that cuts DOWN on a leg of the flight (say to Detroit or Atlanta) would be the only way it would make sense...and those airports have limited timeslots. 

If commuter service is ever feasible, it will be out of Wilmington and not Dover. I get the hope that it will attract new businesses, etc., but I don't think it will work for us at this point in time.

curiousindover
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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 02:10 pm
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This has been tried, time and again. We've spent money on study, after study and not a single effort has paid off. It's an hour to Salisbury, an hour and ten minutes to Philadelphia, an hour and a half to Baltimore and 1:45 to Dulles. Why do we need to continue to pour money down the drain on a useless study to determine that air service to and from Dover isn't feasable? Just curious.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 22nd, 2009 12:45 pm
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Absolutely,  Us Air has flight of their commuter planes in and out of Salisbury, Md.  How wonderful to hop on one of those and not have to drive over an hour to fly out of a major airport.  Just fly there. 

It is time for Dover to have one too.  This will open up this community to  many more services and make the area much more attractive to those we would like to lure in.

 

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 Posted: Sun Mar 22nd, 2009 02:14 am
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Mind telling us which "Large" Airline flys into Salisbury these days?  Surely you aren't including the commuter connector.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 22nd, 2009 12:46 am
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If Salisbury Maryland can have a large airline fly in Dover can too.  It would be great not to have to drive to Philly or Baltimore to fly.  Bring it on!!!!

Fred
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 Posted: Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:16 pm
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Obviously the thought process is that if they build it, they will come.  I just don't see it.....if Wilmington can't make a go of it (and they've tried more than a few times), and there is a good argument that it could be as a "backup" to Philly, I find it hard to see how Dover could do it.

Last edited on Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:16 pm by Fred

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 10:56 pm
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Maybe it could be built with Obama Dollars.

Two Cents
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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 08:33 pm
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Is this the same project that was receiving about $100k in grant funds nearly a year ago?  The answer is stil the same -- there is no unfilled need that would make such a venture successful by any measure.  Baltimore and Philly are too close for that to have any value for travelers.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 07:43 pm
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Business and Leisure Travelers Survey Now Online

  

To Determine Possibility of Commuter Air Service to Dover Civil Air Terminal at DAFB

 

Dover, DE – Residents and business owners in Greater Kent County are encouraged to participate in an online study that will determine whether commercial air transportation service is feasible for the area.

 

The Dover Area Air Service Needs Assessment Study is moving forward and the consultant firm RA Wiedemann & Associates has developed a business and a personal travel survey. The business survey has been mailed to 500 companies, government entities and organizations in the area to estimate demand for business travel. The information will be analyzed and then used to establish a projected number of enplanements that our area is likely to generate. 

 

Businesses who are either sending personnel by air to other parts of the country or are regularly getting visited by business people using air travel are encouraged to fill out the survey. The brief survey can be filled out online by using the following link:

http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/survey-intro.zgi?p=WEB228UYBDEN9P

 

The leisure travelers’ opinions are also critical to this outcome and could make commuter air service to Dover feasible and will, no doubt, add traffic for a commuter airline service. To capture the leisure travelers’ air travel needs a brief second survey designed for the leisure traveler is available and can also be filled out electronically by clicking on the following link:

http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB228WPDSGABQ

 

 The study is made possible by Grants from the US Department of Transportation, City of Dover, Kent County Levy Court, Central Delaware Chamber of Commerce, Kent County Tourism as well as numerous Central Delaware Businesses.

 

 “Our goal is to show that the demand for a commuter air service exists in Central Delaware, and then take that information to the airlines for consideration” said Daniel W. Wolfensberger, CEO of the Kent Economic Partnership, Inc.


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