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Fred
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 08:12 pm |
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Well, no. They certainly are not uneducated. You could question their wisdom, perhaps, but sometimes personal wants have to be sacrificed, and this is one of them.
However...what do you think a Republican governor would have done....or, better yet, what will the next Republican candidate going to say about the pay cut? That they would have raised taxes? That they would have cut specifically cut something else?
And, if so....why aren't we hearing from them right now? I'd LOVE to hear alternatives that won't create more problems then the current resolution. Like the bailout, there are times when you have to support something you don't like because it is the best, or only feasible solution.
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laughingoutloud
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:41 pm |
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Strike? Are you kidding? How exactly would that benefit the students? Thats right kids, today's lesson is that 2 wrongs do indeed make a right! We have been telling you wrong all along. Let's break the rules because they did. What kind of example would that show the kids?
YEAH STRIKE, thats the answer then we won't get paid at all! Much better than a pay cut!
If they were such intellegent people then they should have done their due diligence before becoming Democrats and supporting a moron like Markell. Perhaps they are the uneducated ones and should not be allowed to educate our children!
Last edited on Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:42 pm by laughingoutloud
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:00 am |
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| No............ All State employees are created equal in the payroll system. From the Governor and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court on down to the lowest pay grade on the totem pole.
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Fred
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 07:19 pm |
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Playing the Game wrote: Cut 8% of the waste, that equates to administration and duplication of services among local districts.
If such consoldiation (which would include loss of some administrative positions and the elimination of duplication services) saved, oh say 15%...would you exclude the teachers from the pay cut?
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Number1
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 11:26 am |
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Colin Bonini's approach seems better for the long haul. We need to shrink government not just because of this fiscal emergency but so that we don't get in this predicament again!!
http://www.delawaresbadhabit.com
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 03:56 am |
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Cut 8% of the waste, that equates to administration and duplication of services among local districts.
Fred wrote:
I'm not sure how they "police themselves" anymore then any other profession. Sure, some rely on external groups to review conduct, but that is mostly those who generally work independently. I'm a professional, I'm a manager, but I still have a boss who will follow established procedures to get rid of me if I fail at my job.
That being said....do you really think that teachers are somehow special in being excluded from the salary cut? I don't think it is right, either, but I tend to prefer that rather then cutting 5 or 6 percent of the teaching staff (I'm swagging the number, but if you have to cut 8% of the salary, I would guess it wouldn't equate to 8% of the workforce due to the amount saved through health care, pension, and retirement costs.
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Allan
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 03:51 am |
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How do teachers police themselves? They could start with their union. Actually, it's not a union, it's an association. The association will defend any and all levels of incompetent and behavior. The association's membership (teachers) support this by allowing it to happen. As far as the association is concerned, if they don't represent a teacher regardless of their ability or infraction, they may loose association membership dues. And trust me, they don't want that to happen. The salaries of some DSEA employees puts teachers salaries to shame.
No, I don't think teachers are somehow special in being excluded from the salary cut.
Fred wrote: I'm not sure how they "police themselves" anymore then any other profession. Sure, some rely on external groups to review conduct, but that is mostly those who generally work independently. I'm a professional, I'm a manager, but I still have a boss who will follow established procedures to get rid of me if I fail at my job.
That being said....do you really think that teachers are somehow special in being excluded from the salary cut? I don't think it is right, either, but I tend to prefer that rather then cutting 5 or 6 percent of the teaching staff (I'm swagging the number, but if you have to cut 8% of the salary, I would guess it wouldn't equate to 8% of the workforce due to the amount saved through health care, pension, and retirement costs.
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Fred
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 03:03 am |
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I'm not sure how they "police themselves" anymore then any other profession. Sure, some rely on external groups to review conduct, but that is mostly those who generally work independently. I'm a professional, I'm a manager, but I still have a boss who will follow established procedures to get rid of me if I fail at my job.
That being said....do you really think that teachers are somehow special in being excluded from the salary cut? I don't think it is right, either, but I tend to prefer that rather then cutting 5 or 6 percent of the teaching staff (I'm swagging the number, but if you have to cut 8% of the salary, I would guess it wouldn't equate to 8% of the workforce due to the amount saved through health care, pension, and retirement costs.
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Allan
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 02:00 am |
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LOL ... no, in lala land, it doesn't.
You're correct, the overall mentality of teachers, as a whole, is more blue collar than white collar. Heck, if they would police themselves and weed out the incompetents in their profession, similar to attorneys and doctors, they could reduce there numbers and increase the demand and then the price of their services. They'll never get it. I know a lot of teachers and respect what they do as individuals. But as an organization, I can't say the same.
Playing the Game wrote: I guess my MBA from Washington University in St. Louis doesn't count here in lala land.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:46 am |
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| I guess my MBA from Washington University in St. Louis doesn't count here in lala land.
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a little help here
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:43 am |
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| You don't have to attend, they want educated people there.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:40 am |
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| No thank you, sounds like an AFSCME Union rally.
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a little help here
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:37 am |
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| Rally at Legislative Mall, in May 6 - This is for ALL STATE EMPLOYEES. Begin gathering at 3:00. Speeches begin at 5:00pm. Legislative Mall, west side of Legislative Hall, Dover. Wear your association t-shirts, or something red. Bring signs. Families, neighbors and supportive friends are welcome
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Two Cents
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:33 am |
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| Maybe a teacher's strike right now would be a good thing. Save a lot of $$ in salaries that would not have to be paid, and cause some parents to really scurry for babysitters, etc. Yeah -- why don't you all do that?? Evidently everybody has forgotten the fate of the air traffic controllers when they called a strike in the early 1980's.
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Number1
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:32 am |
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| The NEA is a Democratic party tool...Strike...yeah right
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a little help here
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:30 am |
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| No it makes a breach of contract by the state a bad idea.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 10:58 pm |
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| Oh goody a teachers strike. That makes you plumbers and auto workers.
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a little help here
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 10:23 pm |
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Gov. Markell, a question to you. Did the DSEA back you for your election? Aren't they the largest union in the state of Delaware? So if they didn't support you would you be in office? This is the way you thank them by cutting the pay of those who supported you and put you in your position. I hope you can sleep well at night knowing what you are doing to your supporters. You are a typical politician, say one thing and do another just to get what you want.
The contract the teachers have says they are not allowed to strike. It also says what they will be paid, it doesn't say that the salary they receive will be cut. So if the state of Delaware can be in breach of contract without any repercussions than so I guess the teachers can be also.
STRIKE NOW TEACHERS!!!!!!
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 09:36 pm |
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How many levels of administration are there, really?
What does a teacher make....60 or 70K? I think there are some "department heads" in some area, but in any case, you still have assistant principals. I tend to think that there responsibility should be equated to higher salary....so they make something like 90K?
My high school had 5 Vice Principals...and the Principal was probably paid in relation to what they got paid, which is to say he got more. Probably in the 110s by today standards....
Now, given as there probably should be some (probably not as many as there are, but there are still some needed) assistant superintendents, they should get paid more than the principals, right? And at the top level, he or she should make a bit more, correct?
I am all for consolidation, I am all for cutting positions, but realize that salary structure is built from the bottom up. I make more than the people who work for me, and my boss makes more than me. I don't see why public education should be any different.
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The dock of the bay
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Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 05:13 pm |
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Fred wrote: Two Cents wrote: The dock of the bay wrote: I was listening to the news and they posted the salary for Tim Geithner, U.S. Treasury Secretary. He makes $193,000 per year, and look at the responsibilites he has during this economic downturn. Cape's Superintendent makes approx $156,000. Seems like someone is overpaid.
Or underpaid...look at the salaries that our top workers give up to come to work for the federal government. Not my favorite guy, but ol' Dick brought the mangement and ethical experience of running Halliburton to the VP...was he "underpaid"? As much as I think he was the source of much of what ailed the Bush Administration, he certainly could have been worth a lot more than that.
Interesting proposal, CR....but I am not sure how far you take that, or should. Each of the pensions earned is from a seperate source, and is already accounted for..the only thing it would do is discourage these experienced people from working for other government entities.
For example...if McCain had been elected, should he have given up his military pension?
Fred. I was not suggesting that Geithner was overpaid. I was comparing his salary of $190,000+ for all of the responsibilities he has as compared to the $156000 salary of a superintendent of Cape School District. Geithner, no doubt, took a VERY considerable cut in salary in order to become Treasurey Secretary.
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Apr 8th, 2009 09:20 pm |
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Two Cents wrote: The dock of the bay wrote: I was listening to the news and they posted the salary for Tim Geithner, U.S. Treasury Secretary. He makes $193,000 per year, and look at the responsibilites he has during this economic downturn. Cape's Superintendent makes approx $156,000. Seems like someone is overpaid.
Or underpaid...look at the salaries that our top workers give up to come to work for the federal government. Not my favorite guy, but ol' Dick brought the mangement and ethical experience of running Halliburton to the VP...was he "underpaid"? As much as I think he was the source of much of what ailed the Bush Administration, he certainly could have been worth a lot more than that.
Interesting proposal, CR....but I am not sure how far you take that, or should. Each of the pensions earned is from a seperate source, and is already accounted for..the only thing it would do is discourage these experienced people from working for other government entities.
For example...if McCain had been elected, should he have given up his military pension?
Last edited on Wed Apr 8th, 2009 09:22 pm by Fred
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Mon Apr 6th, 2009 11:58 am |
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| I said pension, not pay.
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Jody.Sweeney
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Posted: Mon Apr 6th, 2009 04:05 am |
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| By that reasoning, every person who works a second job should give up their second pay.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Sun Apr 5th, 2009 01:09 am |
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| Maybe Levy Court Commissioners should reduce their pay and give up their County pensions if they are State Employees too. Goose, Gander. Last edited on Sun Apr 5th, 2009 01:09 am by Playing the Game
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Jody.Sweeney
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Posted: Sun Apr 5th, 2009 01:03 am |
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| Bixby, Bryon Short submitted a resolution to the House that pretty much says that whatever happens to State employees will happen to Legislators too. There were actually two very vocal objections saying that it is illegal for Ligislators to set their own pay. THAT IS A COPOUT if the resolution does not pass because of that.
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Old Spice
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 09:50 pm |
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| llort
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 10:32 pm |
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| Come on now Superintendents pay is for the children.
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Two Cents
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 09:49 pm |
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The dock of the bay wrote: I was listening to the news and they posted the salary for Tim Geithner, U.S. Treasury Secretary. He makes $193,000 per year, and look at the responsibilites he has during this economic downturn. Cape's Superintendent makes approx $156,000. Seems like someone is overpaid.
Well, one of the differences is that we know Mr. Geithner doesn't pay taxes and presumably the Cape super does. That tends to widen the gap.
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Bixby
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 09:31 pm |
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I have yet to see any proposals for the entire State Legislature to cut their pay an equal percentage as they propose for other state employees. Likewise the US Congress. It's the old case of do as I say and not as I Do. The elected elite should lead by example, or would that be too painful?
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a little help here
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 08:55 pm |
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| I hear what you are saying. Why is it fair to take from the people on the low end of the pay scale and expect them to be financially okay but not for these people you mention? Go to http://php.delawareonline.com/state/paycheck/stateSalaries2010.php for a list of state employees and salaries. There are a lot more made up positions that I originally thought.
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The dock of the bay
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 08:49 pm |
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| I was listening to the news and they posted the salary for Tim Geithner, U.S. Treasury Secretary. He makes $193,000 per year, and look at the responsibilites he has during this economic downturn. Cape's Superintendent makes approx $156,000. Seems like someone is overpaid.
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a little help here
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 08:02 pm |
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Just when we thought the grass would be greener on the other side the wonderful state of Delaware put Gov. Jack Markell into office. Has this guy lost his sight on reality?
As if we don't ask enough from our state teachers by making them teach our kids that bring guns to school, make threats and have no respect for authority. Now the Governor is proposing an 8% pay cut on top of cuts for benefits the state had funded. Has he not noticed that the prices for everything from paper towels to gas has risen? It cost the average family more money now just to pay for the necessities and now he wants to take money away from them. A pay cut might help the budget but it will hurt the state employees. On top of that it pretty much guarantees he will not be the Governor after the next election.
How many administrative people does the State of Delaware have working for them? How many made up jobs are in the state budget? Maybe lets take a look at them and remove a few of the useless jobs. In 2007 the Gov of Delaware was earning $132.5K annually according to stateline.org. I’m sure this has gone up since then. Maybe the Governor should take a pay cut? As a taxpayer in the state I am willing to do my part. I would be for a 1% sales tax in the state if it would help not only the budget but also keep teachers pay the way it is.
Teachers of these little disrespectful punks deserve a pay raise, not a reduction in pay! Wake up Gov. Jack Markell!
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