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Hartlyboy
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 03:49 pm |
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tell all wrote: Well if we are to believe the tax payers own GM , before the Delaware factory closes maybe I will mosey on up there a pick out mine , they are getting free money so I guess I can have a free car
Good thought. Can I catch a ride up? I'll drive back down myself, of course.
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tell all
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 02:18 pm |
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| Well if we are to believe the tax payers own GM , before the Delaware factory closes maybe I will mosey on up there a pick out mine , they are getting free money so I guess I can have a free car
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Zoospore
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Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 12:45 pm |
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| Once you peel away the layers of deceit this whole thing is nothing more than the slow asphyxiation of one healthy business (GM) by another ailing business (unions) being assisted by a suicide doctor (government) while the gallery (U.S. public) looks on and does absolutely nothing about it.
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dover-diva
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 01:43 pm |
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Hartlyboy wrote: Fred wrote:
This was a last resort, and even with this, there are going to be lots of businesses and employees who aren't going to have jobs. When you hear the people complaining about how little they got (stock exchanges for bonds), imagine their belly-aching if GM went through a traditional bankruptcy and they got nothing, along with thousands of suppliers. GM's full bankruptcy, which they certianly would have had, would have caused a massive ripple effect.
Not to be overly picky, but a 'regular' bankruptcy wouldn't look a lot different than what we are seeing now except senior debt would be respected and the government would not have fired the CEO last month. A bankruptcy is a process to allow you creditor relief and arrangements to get on top of your problems. Liquidation on the other hand is the massive sell-off you may have been referring to. It may well still come to that because the currrent arrangement GM made with the UAW was so pathetically weak that the core cancer of unrealistic costs is still there.
As I see it, the gov't made the "deal" with the UAW, to prevent a bankruptcy, so yes, HB as you so aptly stated, the core cancer still exists.
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Hartlyboy
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 04:19 am |
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Fred wrote:
This was a last resort, and even with this, there are going to be lots of businesses and employees who aren't going to have jobs. When you hear the people complaining about how little they got (stock exchanges for bonds), imagine their belly-aching if GM went through a traditional bankruptcy and they got nothing, along with thousands of suppliers. GM's full bankruptcy, which they certianly would have had, would have caused a massive ripple effect.
Not to be overly picky, but a 'regular' bankruptcy wouldn't look a lot different than what we are seeing now except senior debt would be respected and the government would not have fired the CEO last month. A bankruptcy is a process to allow you creditor relief and arrangements to get on top of your problems. Liquidation on the other hand is the massive sell-off you may have been referring to. It may well still come to that because the currrent arrangement GM made with the UAW was so pathetically weak that the core cancer of unrealistic costs is still there.
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 03:47 am |
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"We the People, In order to form a more perfect union...." Ever hear of it?
And yes, the GM bit IS a bit of a gamble, but one that we've certainly stacked the deck a bit. I think it is a good bet that we'll get most of our money back, BUT the key aspect is that we may have prevented the "Great Recession". Was it worth it? I don't think we'll know for a generation or so from now.
NO ONE wants this...GM, the unions, Obama, Republicans, Democrats, you, me. It was conceived as the best possible option to prevent an economic crash that might have been twice as bad as we have right now.
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Zoospore
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 01:41 pm |
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We the people wont own anything, but GM will have the opportunity to pay back and release themselves...ala Chrysler's experience.
So potentialy we could come out ok...still its hard to trust the gubbmint. We dont and wont own ANYTHING to do with GM.
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Two Cents
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 12:37 pm |
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Playing the Game wrote: We are the Government and the pawns in place are our servants.
Unfortunately, we as a people fail to remove our pawns who do not act in accordance with the best interests of the people they are obligated to represent.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 12:10 pm |
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| First and foremost Fred, we are not made up of the government. That is what keeps Liberals alive thinking the Government is an entity of control. We are the Government and the pawns in place are our servants.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 11:19 am |
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Interesting.
First, since we are made up of the government, I suspect we will see something from it....just like I suspect that once it starts becoming profitable, the reluctant owners, ie, the unions and the government, will start to sell their shares, probably directly back to GM.
What you don't understand is that neither of this entities WANT to own any part of GM. Can you tell me why anyone would, even the government? Other then your conspiracy theory that the government wants to take over everything, of course. You do realize that no one could buy an entity this size, especially when the financial markets were in a tailspin and people had difficulties borrowing for a single car, let alone a whole company?
This was a last resort, and even with this, there are going to be lots of businesses and employees who aren't going to have jobs. When you hear the people complaining about how little they got (stock exchanges for bonds), imagine their belly-aching if GM went through a traditional bankruptcy and they got nothing, along with thousands of suppliers. GM's full bankruptcy, which they certianly would have had, would have caused a massive ripple effect.
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 01:04 pm |
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| What will be the bottom line effect on NASCAR when GM plants close, dealers close down, and the vehicles they produce are down-sized? Will GM and Chrysler suddenly lose interest? Obama came into an opportunity to wreck NASCAR and it may happen sooner rather than later. Another mega-million dollar industry in America bites the dust and does Obama care - if he can't own it and fleece it, the answer is "no." I think back to the day people had the option to vote for Obama or not and what a mistake that was. Just consider all the businesses his election has put in the toilet and with more still to come.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 10:32 pm |
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I can't wait til Ford sues the Obama Administration for putting out a no bid contract for a fleet of automobiles from Government Motors.
So much for Free Enterprise.
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dover-diva
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 10:22 pm |
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Two Cents wrote: dover-diva wrote: REAL- does this mean the gov't isn't going to give me a new car???? Oh boo-hoo.
Diva -- who would want a new GM (Government Motors) car?? They will be no better than the old.
Someone sent me a joke and picture of the "new" GM (government motors) It has 3 wheels , 2 telepromters and if you're over the age of 30 couldn't get out of it, once you're in. I couldn't c&p.
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 10:04 pm |
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| Not one red cent will you or I get back and no discounts on new cars either. When the President said the American tax payers now are invested in GM I take it to mean his Secretary of The US Treasury fronted the money out of taxes collected from tax payers. The "Fed" is basically a bank with funds to keep other big banks solvent in case of financial stress in emergencies. The bankruptcy of GM was no "emergency" per say. This was orchestrated by Obama to get his mitts on the car industry in America. He is an "opportunists" with an agenda - socializing the United States. `
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Two Cents
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 08:26 pm |
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dover-diva wrote: REAL- does this mean the gov't isn't going to give me a new car???? Oh boo-hoo.
Diva -- who would want a new GM (Government Motors) car?? They will be no better than the old.
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Zoospore
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 07:42 pm |
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Is it the US Treasury who bought the shares or was it The Fed?
As in was it the peoples money (taxes) or was it money from the private enterprise known as The Fed?
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dover-diva
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 06:43 pm |
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| REAL- does this mean the gov't isn't going to give me a new car???? Oh boo-hoo.
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 04:12 pm |
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If you believe the propagands from Democrats about American tax payers will own General Motors Corp, get real! It's not you who are invested in GM and you won't see one red cent of it. It is the US Treasury and the US Congress that will hold those shares. The Prsident will select a "Board" to govern what GM does and all investment money returned to the government will be their's to do with as they please - like buying more votes.
It's a bunch of balogna for memebers of Congress to imply that the "American tax payers" invested in GM. It is gambling with our money and nothing more than that.
And, did you know each member of the US Congress has an operating fund of cash to spend on their office - like for new cars, ancilliary expenses like week ends at the beach, fine dining, wine, and other perks? It amounts to a million dollars and even more. This is little known and it isn't transparent, unless you dig it out of volumes of paper information hidden deep in files under the Capitol Building.
The VAT will be mana sent from heaven to the US Congress. Did you ever wonder why it's so nice to be re-elected and re-elected to a gravy job in Washington? It will get even sweeter once a VAT helps them pay for their extravagences.
One Senator said "We might resort to working on Monday's and Fridays to pass all the legislation President Obama wants passed." Their chunk of the pie will soon be even larger!
So, standby all you new owners of General Motors Corp., it will soon be costing you big time!
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