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dover-diva
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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Fred wrote: I'm not saying that there are any perfect solutions, nor did anyone think the TARP or bailouts or ANY program, for that matter, was going to halt job loss. The economy has been shedding jobs since last January, and I don't recall any of you wanting to hold President Bush accountable for that. Your right, of course, but when the job losses start small, get larger and larger, they don't simply stop once things begin to improve. Job losses under anybody's predictions were going to continue pretty much through this year. The exact rate and amount certainly is subject to guessing, but you don't this economy around on a dime, which is what some of you seem to think.
I think the economy IS turning around, but I also think that there are fundemental changes that will make a recovery difficult. We grew our economy at least in part by personal spending that was allowed not by increased salaries but by increased borrowing. We've overbuilt in many areas....I think our area is overbuilt, but it certainly isn't as bad as some other areas. That is one area that will take a much longer time to recover because we simply have more then we need, and we have much tougher (I'd say appropriate) borrowing policies.
As for the transparency.....it has always been there, depending on how hard you want to look, but at least we've got a site that is very clear on how much has been spent by several ways you want to look at it. There are links to any investigations, as requested, links to agency reports as to how they are spending the money...
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/allocation-programs&state=DE
but I'll humor you. Granted that the money has pretty much just begun to be spent, tell me what else you want to know about the recovery bill.
Gee and I thought we were talking about "transparency" in the FEDERAL gov't. Silly me.Last edited on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 06:54 pm by dover-diva
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 03:15 pm |
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Fred, what exactly has Obama done that you think is turning the US economy around? He is holding TARP money back until releasing it WILL effect the economy and in a positive direction. Nothing he has done yet has helped do any more than what America has done for itself. Taking over GM will be a financial disaster in the long run. The ripple effect of that mistake is building to a Tsnami in this country. It will impact NASCAR in a big way by next year. Look on the new car market now and see the fantastic small economical vehicles you can buy. GM will change them and nobody will buy a "government motors" car! The USPO is on the verge of going belly-up caused by charging too much for its service. No CEO will touch it when Obama will soon be running post offices by proxy. He wasted close to a trillion dollars so far on things having little to do with economic recovery. Obama is out of touch with what this country can do for itself during economic stress. Socialism did not work in Europe, England Canada (they piggy backed off our economy to survive), and China. Obama is too stupid to know this. He is perhaps the worst president already we ever had - even Jimmy Carter!
You will not live long enough to see our financial "heads" above water again. We haven't hit bottom which is where we are still sinking to. Prices for food have amazingly rmained stable. Gas is now pegged around 2.50 per gal. because it's not selling that well at the pumps. Obama will do something stupid (you count on it) and every consumable will bounce higher in price.
The Democrats were a drag on GWB for four years. He was constantly being blamed for weather events, forest fires, high gas prices, and losing the war. TV liberals took cheap-shots at him 24/7. The stock market and the economy is as much about "perception" as reality. Two Democrats were manipulating the coming mortgage loan and housing market crisis that was set in motion by President Clinton. GWB had his hands full fending off Democrats in Conngress. Obama has had none of that to deal with so he has ran amok driving this country towards socialism supported by a socialist leaning majority in the US Congress. He has openly co-opted the TV media and will soon have a regular two hours long show of his own on TV to spout more socialist propaganda. America will soon be a third-world waste land under its first dictator.
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Fred
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Dover, Delaware USA |
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Posted: Sun Jul 5th, 2009 01:17 pm |
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I'm not saying that there are any perfect solutions, nor did anyone think the TARP or bailouts or ANY program, for that matter, was going to halt job loss. The economy has been shedding jobs since last January, and I don't recall any of you wanting to hold President Bush accountable for that. Your right, of course, but when the job losses start small, get larger and larger, they don't simply stop once things begin to improve. Job losses under anybody's predictions were going to continue pretty much through this year. The exact rate and amount certainly is subject to guessing, but you don't this economy around on a dime, which is what some of you seem to think.
I think the economy IS turning around, but I also think that there are fundemental changes that will make a recovery difficult. We grew our economy at least in part by personal spending that was allowed not by increased salaries but by increased borrowing. We've overbuilt in many areas....I think our area is overbuilt, but it certainly isn't as bad as some other areas. That is one area that will take a much longer time to recover because we simply have more then we need, and we have much tougher (I'd say appropriate) borrowing policies.
As for the transparency.....it has always been there, depending on how hard you want to look, but at least we've got a site that is very clear on how much has been spent by several ways you want to look at it. There are links to any investigations, as requested, links to agency reports as to how they are spending the money...
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/allocation-programs&state=DE
but I'll humor you. Granted that the money has pretty much just begun to be spent, tell me what else you want to know about the recovery bill.
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:42 pm |
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On target and so right, "Hartlyboy" this time. The Magnificent One is moving at lightening speed and would sign a piece of crap if Congress sent it to him. "Fred"is lost in the forest once again. He looks in the mirror and thinks he sees "transparency." Obama is a liar beyond anything GWB said as president. And above that, he is a Marxist in the vein of Nelson Mandella. Where did he come up with "Czars" unless he reads the Communist Manifesto like the Bible! He wrecked our economy, put us into a deep black hole finacially speaking, and did it in only a few months, yet he can't find a church that "suits our family's needs" after four months. And people actually believe that crud. As someone said, "He still hasn't elevated himself to the high level expected of our nation's president."
I call it being an educated punk with a perpensity for lying. He takes nothing seriously - be happy, you will be taken care of by the government as he steals from you to give it to his underprivileged brothers. It's all being done under his pledge to "transfer the wealth" of this nation. He has kept no other campaign promises and never intended to. It was all a lie!
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 12:18 pm |
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| The only thing transparent about the current group in DC is the Presidents personality.
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Hartlyboy
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:17 am |
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I'm really not sure what is so transparent in this administration. They pass bills no one has read and slip in 300 page additions in the middle of the night [cap and tax]. In addition the leader of the House flaty refuses to let us public types even see the health bill for a couple of days to understand it and give our reps feedback before she puts it up for a vote. Barry said he was going to give us all 5 days to see what was being voted on remember? Didn't happen.
So, as far as programs being open and transparent, I think we should have a healthy sense of skepticism that we know much of anything that is going on. Of course, the special people who are connected with Dear Leader might know more than the rest of us peasants ,so I'll listen carefully to what you say, Fred. One can always learn from those In The Know.
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dover-diva
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 02:57 am |
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Fred wrote: I doubt it, too. Half of the TARP money was spent well before the Obama administration took over, and as much as I want that investigated, I don't think it will happen.
Second...most of these programs have more openness and transparency then almost any program we've ever had. Is it enough to satisfy everyone? Of course not...but certainly better then what we've had in the past.
Geeeeze Fred, just when I was getting the impression that you might have gotten a bit of sense, you go away for a week and come back worse than ever. Ok. 1/2 of the TARP money may have been spent before BO took office, but, he was yanking chains before he took the oath to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. ( Honestly do you believe that he is upholding the constitution???) Open government under BO --now that is the BIGGEST oxymoron since your "jumbo shrimp".
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 01:36 am |
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| Fred they failed and have cut tens of tousands of jobs. The $50 billion is down the rat hole and you and your Demo buds own a large percentage of nothing at my expense.
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 11:16 pm |
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I doubt it, too. Half of the TARP money was spent well before the Obama administration took over, and as much as I want that investigated, I don't think it will happen.
Second...most of these programs have more openness and transparency then almost any program we've ever had. Is it enough to satisfy everyone? Of course not...but certainly better then what we've had in the past.
Will every dollar and nickle be spent properly? Probably not, but very few people could make that claim, either. I'm not against such an investigation, but what exactly do you want to investigate? Do you want to see if a new repaving project really repaved the road, or whether a new interchange was worth it?
There are three components of the past year that will certianly be looked at for years to come. The various bank bailouts will, I suspect, be looked at very favorably. The banks survived, and have actually had to work hard - harder then they ever had, probably to get OUT from under government review. The failure of the banks was causing a credit lockup which had paralyzed the business world. It isn't the way it was before - and maybe it shouldn't have been - but credit is better then it was.
Bailouts of automakers may be a different thing. If they suceed, and I think there is a chance they will, it may cause us to review our policy on any business that becomes "too big to fail." Like it or not, the automakers were that, and even their various new forms are causing major shifts in the marketplace. Again, maybe a good thing, but the great impact these bankruptcies and sales are having would have been ten times worse if they had failed out right. Sure, we'd eventually sort it all out, but it would have taken years to do.
The stimulus package I believe will not be perfect, but it has begun to do the job it set out to do. I've asked this on several forums and to people's faces, but there was no alternative, and even most conservative people were saying that something along these lines had to be done. You can quibble about the percentages and where things should have gone, but the fact remains that it was a compromise, and it had to be that way. Was it too much? I don't think so, given how bad the shape of the economy was. Was it too little? Perhaps....it may have been big enough to prevent a full scale global depression, but maybe not enough to bring things back to the way they were.
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Hartlyboy
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 07:54 pm |
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| I doubt it. If it's a Democrat administration that takes over, they'll shove it under the rug like the Black Panther voter intimidation case in Philly or any of the other 'don't tell' deals they are covering up on. If the Republicans take over, they'll wuss out and say 'we all just have to get along'. No hope for a meaningful investigation of any of this -unless we can blame it on Bush and then the Dems will be on it like stink on...
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Get Real In Dover
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:51 pm |
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| If America survives as a republic and not a socialist run state, investigations into what happened to all the TARP and Stimulus money will dwarf Watergate, Savings & Loan, and the Kennedy Assasination investigations. The "Fleecing of America" investigation will be historic and volumes written about where the money actually went will be studied for generations. Obama hopes not if he can push ahead fast enough to totally socialize America and build political firewalls behind him and his adminstration. Think not? Then take a look at 14 "Czars" Obama is creating to CYA himself. He will be the Czar of Czars! Sounds familiar - it is the way of 19th Century Russia that was eventually over-thrown by the proletariat (common people). Obama has a "Czar" complex under that cool calculating persona of his. Claim the national treasury, loot it, then feed the people chocolate cake and tax them blind to pay for it. Don't riot, just eat your cake and praise his emenance, Barack Obama for giving us the size cars we have needed and an annual check-up at the government run hospital. Yummy! Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 05:12 pm by Get Real In Dover
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