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Waterman
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 12:39 pm |
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Playing the Game wrote: Before Rte 1 was built, Business 1 and 113 did just fine with Big Rigs. It was just a bit more inconvenient.
The roads I am referring to are like New Wharf Rd and Reynolds Rd. These 2 roads are not classified for heavy traffic. What happens when there is a accident above the split.
When they shut the road down for the accident by the fire they just stopped traffic until DELDOT arrived. But by then people were making U-Turns in the median.
There is no plan to handle this traffic situation.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 11:52 am |
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Waterman, there where no trucks running a shuttle operation, there may have been two trucks on scene assisting the fire marshall, the incident was well enough off the road that traffic on route 1 was not impacted.
Last edited on Tue May 5th, 2009 11:52 am by fire911guy
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 01:12 am |
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| Before Rte 1 was built, Business 1 and 113 did just fine with Big Rigs. It was just a bit more inconvenient.
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Waterman
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 01:02 am |
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fire911guy wrote: Waterman wrote: I have a question. With all 19 fire companies at the scene with tanker trucks going out on the high way to get water from the pond. Why was RT. 1 not closed down and traffic rerouted so they could do there job and not have cars stopping to watch the fire or being tied up in all the confusion.
They diverted traffic only after the accident.
The accident was not during the fire, units were clear of the fire and in quarters when the accident happened, and there were fire police on scene during the fire.
When I came by that afternoon and the Southern States truck was north bound and the accident team was on scene there were still trucks at the hotel.
Whether the accident happened during the fire or not the road should have been contained.
As for fire police they had a situation that was beyond they handling. There was to much traffic and no plan in place that reroutes traffic around Milford and there are no roads designated by DELDOT that can handle large trucks safely. So they just stopped and released traffic as needed.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 03:25 pm |
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Waterman wrote: I have a question. With all 19 fire companies at the scene with tanker trucks going out on the high way to get water from the pond. Why was RT. 1 not closed down and traffic rerouted so they could do there job and not have cars stopping to watch the fire or being tied up in all the confusion.
They diverted traffic only after the accident.
The accident was not during the fire, units were clear of the fire and in quarters when the accident happened, and there were fire police on scene during the fire.Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 03:26 pm by fire911guy
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Bill Christy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 02:26 pm |
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| The whole thing is a horrible tragedy, on many levels. I sincerely hope that we never loose focus on the fact that 3 lives were lost, while officials try to find out what exactly happened. Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 02:26 pm by Bill Christy
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 02:22 pm |
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| I believe there has been questions as to whether she was pulled off looking at the hotel after it was under control and the highway was open. There are still a lot of details that have not come out yet.
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Bill Christy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 02:19 pm |
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MHS1975Grad wrote: Route 1 from Tub Mill Pond Road to 10th Street was shut down while fire trucks were going to the pond to fill. Mrs. Petermans accident was after the highway was opened back up.
Thanks someone else had posted in this thread that her accident and the subsequent loss of life was in part a result of the fire.
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 02:12 pm |
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| Route 1 from Tub Mill Pond Road to 10th Street was shut down while fire trucks were going to the pond to fill. Mrs. Petermans accident was after the highway was opened back up.
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Bill Christy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 01:24 pm |
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Rick,
The fire was called in around 5:00 - 5:30 AM as I recall.
Last edited on Mon May 4th, 2009 01:25 pm by Bill Christy
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DelawareRick
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 01:22 pm |
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| I thought the accident was well after the fire. I think the fire was overnight and the car accident was later in the morning... ?
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Bill Christy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 12:22 pm |
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| Waterman good questions I wasn't aware the accident involving Mrs Peterman happened in that area until after someone posted it in our forums. Once again it seems we are left with more unanswered questions than answered ones.
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Waterman
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 12:17 pm |
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MHS1975Grad wrote: You know when I started posting about this fire and questioned the codes, I never expected it to turn around to inadequate water supply. There were enough fire trucks and tankers here and there was plenty of water. They just had to go to the pond and refill but I don't believe they ever had all trucks and tankers empty at the same time. They did a fabulous job. I know because I live right by it and watched the whole thing. The firefighters are trained well and know what they need to do and they did it.
Now back to why I posted the first time: Codes! How do we find out what the building codes are for hotels and commerciall buildings? I am concerned about safety even with working sprinkler systems with a stick built hotel.
I have a question. With all 19 fire companies at the scene with tanker trucks going out on the high way to get water from the pond. Why was RT. 1 not closed down and traffic rerouted so they could do there job and not have cars stopping to watch the fire or being tied up in all the confusion.
They diverted traffic only after the accident.
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Bill Christy
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 12:09 pm |
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| Has any new information about the cause of the fire been discovered ?
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fire911guy
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:30 am |
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Hey MHS1975Grad, try looking here, http://co.kent.de.us/Departments/Planning/IandE/index.htm
While I do know that the hotel was under the City of Milford, I do think construction still has to follow county codes.
hope this helps...
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:21 am |
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| Thanks 911 for the information. This should fall under the City of Milford building codes since the property is in city limits but I don't know if county building codes are also enforced. It would be interesting to find out. I am going to try to make some calls tomorrow.
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:14 am |
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| I am hoping that would be the case but I would have thought they would do that before they started furnishing it.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:14 am |
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MHS1975Grad wrote: You know when I started posting about this fire and questioned the codes, I never expected it to turn around to inadequate water supply. There were enough fire trucks and tankers here and there was plenty of water. They just had to go to the pond and refill but I don't believe they ever had all trucks and tankers empty at the same time. They did a fabulous job. I know because I live right by it and watched the whole thing. The firefighters are trained well and know what they need to do and they did it.
Now back to why I posted the first time: Codes! How do we find out what the building codes are for hotels and commerciall buildings? I am concerned about safety even with working sprinkler systems with a stick built hotel.
As for the codes, you can go to the county code office, and they should have that info, as for it being stick built, not all buildings are constructed the same, that is true, but I do believe that the 100, 200, and 300 Hundred buildings of Valley Run Apts. are stick built, and I do know that several fires in there were knocked down (put out) prior to arrival of units, and like I posted before, that does not mean that will be the case all the time.
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milfordian
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:10 am |
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| I'm not an expert, but I would guess that the codes would require fireboard, a drywall that does not burn well, or burns slow. I would assume this had not been applied yet. I know from experience that this is a requirement for place that will have high occupancy and are adjacent to other stores. for example, this type of fireoard would be a requirement for Rackers since it is attached to other stores.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:06 am |
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| Sorry, did not know you were so well informed to have known this to be a fact, while I do know from my time in Carlisle Fire Co., I have responded to several calls in town on town water supply, with a sprinkler system, and the fire was out prior to arriving, and others where it held the fire to where there was minimal damage, so, I am going to go out on a limb and say that your expert opinion does not hold water, PUN INTENDED! Last edited on Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:07 am by fire911guy
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:05 am |
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You know when I started posting about this fire and questioned the codes, I never expected it to turn around to inadequate water supply. There were enough fire trucks and tankers here and there was plenty of water. They just had to go to the pond and refill but I don't believe they ever had all trucks and tankers empty at the same time. They did a fabulous job. I know because I live right by it and watched the whole thing. The firefighters are trained well and know what they need to do and they did it.
Now back to why I posted the first time: Codes! How do we find out what the building codes are for hotels and commerciall buildings? I am concerned about safety even with working sprinkler systems with a stick built hotel.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:53 am |
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Yeah, seems that way, and I try to stay objective, and not on any sides, just provide info so that they may know, but they are always wanting to put blame on someone for something terrible happening, when the truth is, bad things happen, and no matter how well a town, or agency is equipped or trained, sometimes, there is nothing that can be done, if that was not the case, I would not have a job @ 911 taking calls.
Best advice I can give for those that disagree with what I have posted here, is move to a place that all house fires are put out the minute units arrive, a town that the utilities are without any fault, and the government is perfect, and when you find that place, let me know where it is, cause chances are, when they arrive, it all went to he*&.
Said all I can about this topic, aside from telling them to either run for city office, or join your local fire department and make a difference, there is not much more I can say, sooooo
Nough' said!
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:52 am |
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| If the hotel was completed and the sprinkler system active, the hotel would have burned to the ground if the system malfunctioned (Not unheard of or unusual) and the fire hydrants were needed to fight the fire. There was not enough water for the hydrant syatem.
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milfordian
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:49 am |
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Hey 911 guy, it seems that these people feel the the fire supression system should be the first thing on site and until it's in, the fire company should be on site until it is. Really, it wouldn't have mattered if the system was in and it worked, there would be something else that they would latch on to just so they could blame the city for something.
Sad, but true
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fire911guy
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:42 am |
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Playing the Game wrote: If the system couldn't handle the fire it should never have been approved. There are formulas and standards for fire prevention. If the builders met the standard shame on the City for having an inadequate standard. Someone needs to be on the hot seat here.........
milfordian wrote:
Barney Rubble wrote: Maybe this should serve as the official notice to the city and the residents that building projects of this scope should not be permitted, because the community lacks the resources to effectively respond to an emergency of this nature. Thankfully, the place was not completed and occupied. It could have been far worse than just a financial disaster.
If the bulding was complete and occupied, as 911guy stated, the sprinkler system would have helped supress the fire, thus, possibly less damage. The fire marshall wouldn't approve occupancy unless he was certain that, in this scenario or any other, people would be able to escape without harm. That's his job.
This post is proof that people grab the worst scenario without all the facts, call it gospel and place blame. sad
And another one that can't read, what part of "there was a system that would have helped, had it been in service, but was not because it was not complete" do you not understand??? Yes, there are standards, and I am sure they were met, the fire marshall makes multiple inspections, but due to the building not being complete, that system waws not in service.
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milfordian
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:41 am |
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| .ǝɹıɟ ǝɥʇ ʇǝs oɥʍ ʎnb ǝɥʇ sı pǝɯɐ1q ǝq oʇ spǝǝu oɥʍ uosɹǝd ʎ1uo ǝɥʇ 'ǝɟɐs uʍoʇ ǝɥʇ ɟo ʇsǝɹ ǝɥʇ ʇdǝʞ 'sǝıuɐdɯoɔ ɹǝɥʇo ɟo d1ǝɥ ǝɥʇ ɥʇıʍ 'puɐ ʇno ʇı buıʇʇnd qoظ dn-buɐq ɐ pıp ʎuɐdɯoɔ ǝɹıɟ ǝɥʇ 'ǝɹıɟ ɐ sɐʍ ǝɹǝɥʇ ¿ǝɯɐ1q ǝq oʇ pǝǝu sʎɐʍ1ɐ ǝɹǝɥʇ sǝop ʎɥʍ
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 01:06 am |
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If the system couldn't handle the fire it should never have been approved. There are formulas and standards for fire prevention. If the builders met the standard shame on the City for having an inadequate standard. Someone needs to be on the hot seat here.........
milfordian wrote:
Barney Rubble wrote: Maybe this should serve as the official notice to the city and the residents that building projects of this scope should not be permitted, because the community lacks the resources to effectively respond to an emergency of this nature. Thankfully, the place was not completed and occupied. It could have been far worse than just a financial disaster.
If the bulding was complete and occupied, as 911guy stated, the sprinkler system would have helped supress the fire, thus, possibly less damage. The fire marshall wouldn't approve occupancy unless he was certain that, in this scenario or any other, people would be able to escape without harm. That's his job.
This post is proof that people grab the worst scenario without all the facts, call it gospel and place blame. sad
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fire911guy
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 11:55 pm |
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Um, TwoCents, do you know how the Fire/EMS system operates? If not, please refrain from making such post. Anytime there is a large scale fire, units from outside the area are moved to cover-up the companies that are committed at the fire. Such was the case for the hotel fire, that is why when the alarm sounded for Milford Post office, and The Heritage of Milford that day, units were enroute within minutes from the firehouse in Milford.
The issue with the fire @ the Hotel was just one that it was not complete and the fire suppression system was not in service, to my knowledge there was no working alarm system as of yet, nobody was there, and it was early in the morning, so it was burning pretty good before being called in by a passer-by.
As for the water being taken by from the system, yep, that happened, that is why the fire service is equipped to draft, it has nothing to do with a towns inability to supply water for a fire of that scale, that is why there are several large tankers in the area, not only for rural fires, but to assist on large scale fires in hydrant areas.
While I am not a member of Station 42, Carlisle, I was there, and think all things considered, Last edited on Wed Apr 29th, 2009 12:01 am by fire911guy
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milfordian
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 04:31 pm |
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OK, you're right. Milford should make sure there's enough water and equipment available in case every house in town is burning. While were at it, there should be a cop on every street corner to catch all crime in progress.
Fighting a large fire may put a burdon on water supplies, but that doesn't make them ill prepared. The town has proposed a new water tower in the Wilkins rd/ elks Lodge Rd area, I'll but the same people b**ching here about not enough water will be the first in line to cry about "wasting" money on a new tower.
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Two Cents
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:04 pm |
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| Milfordian -- Barney was correct. Even if the pace had been completed and a working fire supression system in place, suppose there was another serious fire in progress in the community at the time? In other words, lots of water being taken from the system, lots of other fire-fighting resources committed there .... I know that one cannot be prepared for every possible eventuality, but this event makes it appear that Milford was ill prepared for this single event.
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milfordian
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 04:59 pm |
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Barney Rubble wrote: Maybe this should serve as the official notice to the city and the residents that building projects of this scope should not be permitted, because the community lacks the resources to effectively respond to an emergency of this nature. Thankfully, the place was not completed and occupied. It could have been far worse than just a financial disaster.
If the bulding was complete and occupied, as 911guy stated, the sprinkler system would have helped supress the fire, thus, possibly less damage. The fire marshall wouldn't approve occupancy unless he was certain that, in this scenario or any other, people would be able to escape without harm. That's his job.
This post is proof that people grab the worst scenario without all the facts, call it gospel and place blame. sad
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Barney Rubble
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 01:59 pm |
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| Maybe this should serve as the official notice to the city and the residents that building projects of this scope should not be permitted, because the community lacks the resources to effectively respond to an emergency of this nature. Thankfully, the place was not completed and occupied. It could have been far worse than just a financial disaster.
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fire911guy
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Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 12:31 pm |
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While for a structure such as this, I, in my personal opinion, should not be stick built, but as I said, that is my opinion.
That being said, let me shed a little light on a few things, as for watermans comment about how it "went up so fast", part of that is due to the sprinkler system not being in use because the building had not been complete, even with stick built structures, the sprinkler systems either help suppress the fire, or as I have been involved over the last few years, put the fire out prior to our arrival. That is not to say, this fire would have been out by the time the fire dept. arrived, but it sure would have helped.
As for the town water, and hydrant system, I am not going to put blame on anyone there, time and time again, in towns and cities with the best water supply and hydrant systems, when there is a large fire, with multiple hand lines, and master streams in use, they will put a large burden on the municipal water supply, and taker/draft operations will be put in use. One could argue that Milford's water supply at the Hampton was inadequate, it very well could be the point, but I will leave that argument to the experts.
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Waterman
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Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 12:22 am |
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I heard they drained both water towers and had to get water from the pond.
Is there a fire hydrant near the building? If so why all the tanker trucks?
I am glad the place was not open. Look at how fast it went up.
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bluesmann8
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:44 am |
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MHS1975Grad wrote: Where are the building codes? Why was the Hampton Inn stick built? Is this a City of Milford Code? What is Kent County Code? I thought hotels were block built. Guess I was wrong.
codes? lol! thats funny there are no good codes. worked in this area for years. There's only 1 or 2 builders in Delaware that i know of that actually builds things the right way. codes lmao styrofoam and drivit yep! that well built stuff there and its code
The sad thing about this one is "as i heard " it caused 3 lifes. someone pulled over to see it burn and pulled back onto the road and got ran over, thats sad indeed. Who ever started that fire ,i shake my head and frown. you have to live with that the rest of your life.
Last edited on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:50 am by bluesmann8
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:23 am |
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| Why was there a lack of water to fight a fire in a 3 story Hotel. Someone in Milford politics needs to go to jail.
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MHS1975Grad
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:06 am |
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| Where are the building codes? Why was the Hampton Inn stick built? Is this a City of Milford Code? What is Kent County Code? I thought hotels were block built. Guess I was wrong.
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bluesmann8
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 07:03 pm |
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 Last edited on Sun Apr 19th, 2009 04:51 am by bluesmann8
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Milfordian II
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Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 08:21 pm |
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Fire destroys Milford hotel
• THE NEWS JOURNAL • April 14, 2009
MILFORD -- A three-alarm fire early Monday ravaged a hotel under construction in Milford, causing at least $1 million in damage and prompting the state Fire Marshal's Office to declare the building a total loss.
The hotel -- a Hampton Inn on Carpenters Pit Road off Del. 1 near 10th Street -- was scheduled to open in time for NASCAR race weekend in May, Chief Deputy State Fire Marshal B. Scott Bullock said.
"It was over halfway done," he said. "There were plans to move furniture in at the end of the month."
Bullock said investigators are trying to determine what caused the fire, which started on one side of the rectangular, three-story hotel and spread to the other. Nobody was in the building at the time of the fire and nobody was hurt.
Officials said a passing motorist spotted the blaze off Del. 1 and called in the emergency just before 5:30 a.m. Carlisle Fire Co. of Milford was the first to arrive, followed by 20 more fire companies from across Kent and Sussex counties.
Carlisle Assistant Fire Chief Bill Carpenter said it took hours to bring the fire under control because the building was crafted mostly of wood and its sprinkler system had not been hooked up. The blaze was extinguished by 9:40 a.m., but crews remained on the site to put out several hot spots. By late afternoon, a crew from Carlisle had returned to handle another flare-up.
"It's a slow process," Carpenter said. "You just have to work your way down, find the fire and put it out."
Firefighters reported running low on water just after 7:30 a.m. and began drawing water from nearby Tub Mill Pond. Bullock said there wasn't enough municipal water because the area still is being developed and the fire hydrants are not yet active. The most convenient source of water, he said, was the pond across the highway.
Bullock said an out-of-state contractor owns the building, which typically would be turned over to the new franchise owner after the city of Milford granted the necessary permits. The hotel backs up to woods and the open spaces of a planned subdivision called Lighthouse Estates.
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