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SOS Member
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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 04:35 pm |
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| The moving of the departments is not suppose to make the teachers better. The move is suppose to help in integrating the curriculum and create new curriculum maps. This move was not a "building" idea, but a mandate from the "takeover" for next year. The high school is now in the hands of others, not the district. The administrators will just handle discipline. Everyone will have new leaders, no matter what we are told at meetings. The teachers involved in the move get to use their end of the year time. The other teachers will have to do curriculum maps during that time.
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 04:34 am |
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| Repeating for what? It didn't make sense the first time!
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 02:29 am |
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SOS wrote: Hasn't Papa Bear always been "bell to bell"!
whatever sos, you are starting to make no sense.
here is something I dont understand. my niece tells me they are moving math and social studies to different parts of the building. she said they were told it was supposed to make things better. how is moving teachers going to change anything? I do not get that plan. i already said there is nothing wrong with social studies teachers. math is a different story but i cannot say much since my girls had AC math in their day, but it was not any better back then either. so how does moving teachers equal a better school? sounds like a bunch of crap to me.
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Sat May 23rd, 2009 02:27 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: well if that is so and she has been on the job now for oh 3 or 4 years is it? then why hasnt it helped the high school out? they are the same kids she once had in the middle school, therefore they should be doing just as well for the next school, right? obviously nothing is true. that is all the evidence I need.
repeating this point first
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SOS Member
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Posted: Wed May 20th, 2009 05:19 pm |
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| Hasn't Papa Bear always been "bell to bell"!
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Playing the Game Member

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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 02:43 am |
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| Yo Tony how's the medical practice these days? Jou are way too smart for us.
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TonyMontana Member

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Posted: Tue May 12th, 2009 09:31 pm |
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| ello, all jou complainers, whered jou go to???
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 01:39 am |
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| Why don't you read what SOS says as well...you take their word as gospel at the high school then don't trust their take on the middle school - that's twisting things to be the way you want...
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 01:06 am |
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| well if he isn't working for you i am surprised. maybe it is as you say, some people have their own agenda, like those in your district. thats the way they are here, many chiefs and no indians!
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dejazzlvr Banned
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Posted: Wed May 6th, 2009 12:41 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: he didnt run this district just a school. he ran Delmar just fine and with NO complaints, that is why they are such a good district! you hear nothing bad about it! George is prolly have the same problems there that he had here, no one likes the way he does things and they throw their little tiffs about it. that is why he is no longer here.
Interesting article in this weeks Cape Gazzette 1 in 8 students is failing Geometry and College Prep World Literature because of a program implemented by George Stone that is a failure. Interesting fact was the same students failing were found to also the ones that are written up contiually for discipline problems, which go unchecked. This is because of a seriously flawed discipline system in place which George Stone refuses to acknowledge is not working and will not change it.
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SeafordCO2008 Member
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 09:28 pm |
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SeafordCO2008 wrote: Well, I have been around longer than you realize. All I know is that writing anything defaming or deriding in here is really not worth it and does not help. I prefer to stay neutral and positive, upbeat and patient.
I need to reiterate this message it seems since someone finds it necessary to assume I am someone else Don't call me out, I do not appreciate it one bit! I might decide to sue you for libel ( and if you are one of my students, hopefully you paid attention to what that was in class )
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Bill Christy Banned
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 02:47 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: he didnt run this district just a school. he ran Delmar just fine and with NO complaints, that is why they are such a good district! you hear nothing bad about it! George is prolly have the same problems there that he had here, no one likes the way he does things and they throw their little tiffs about it. that is why he is no longer here.
One you don't screw your staff (you know the ones that are doing the real job educating the students) out of any years service as a teacher or any other money due them, while you hand yourself a hefty raise, as well as your other district office staff members.
Two you don't publicly castigate your staff in an editorial you write because they won't agree that the methodology that Dr. Stone is ramming down everyones throat isn't working, and the teachers have the proof it isn't.
Three you don't lie to taxpayers in the district about what money requested is being used for, and still continue to refuse to explain where the money went from the last referendum.
Four as the former administrator of Cape Henlopen and now current School Board Committee chairperson said at a meeting I attended when Dr. Stone began aguing in a public school board meeting with a teacher who had the floor at the time, demanding the teacher sit down.
"Dr. Stone as you know I was an Administrator as well and I started at the bottom working up from a teachers aid, NEVER did the word Administrator equate Dictator and it will not now either. You will listen to your teachers who are the ones in the classrooms everyday with our students and children. Who better to seek an opinion from about what works and what doesn't, than the very people who spend the most time with them during school hours."
George Stone in my personal opinion from what I have seen and heard personally, as well as read in school board minutes from meetings, could care less about anyone elses viewpoints or educational philosophy, it's only about him and what he believes works, it's a dream of his to have the academy like he will have a Cape Henlopen, it's not about what is in the best interest overall for the whole student body. Since when does JRROTC attendence take precedent over the required courses in order to graduate, it happens all the time at Cape. Discipline is a joke a student can amass 30 first offense warnings before there are any serious consequences of any form of punishment, because of a flaw in the system George Stone put in place. It has created a very tough enviornment to educate the students who are not discipline problems.
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 02:06 am |
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3dogday wrote: SeafordParent wrote:
i am not going to argue with you you seem to be satisfied with the status quo or are a member of it and dont like hearing how much you suck
It has nothing to do with "status quo" and everything to do with the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you are just repeating things your "disgruntled" teacher friend said.
It's pretty well established that you don't check facts, or you would know what Mr. Christy says is true.
Do something positive for a change. Quit whining.
3dd
well I am not the only one talking. why dont you pick a fight with SOS, or whocaresanymore or gladtogetaway or Iammykidsmom. they seem to know as much as i do and provide even more enlightening facts than i do. or are you just scared of the truth? it hurts doesnt it?
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 02:01 am |
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Bill Christy wrote: SeafordParent wrote: what school district does?
That's not the point you stated george Stone was great when he was with your district and he was driven out. I would hazard to guess he was driven out because of his dictorial way of running a district while he screws teachers and staff out of salaries that are duly owed them under state law. Funny though he gives himself and his district staff fat raises. I wonder was he earning anywhere near his current salary of $160,000 while he was with your district.
he didnt run this district just a school. he ran Delmar just fine and with NO complaints, that is why they are such a good district! you hear nothing bad about it! George is prolly have the same problems there that he had here, no one likes the way he does things and they throw their little tiffs about it. that is why he is no longer here.
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Bill Christy Banned
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 01:49 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: what school district does?
That's not the point you stated george Stone was great when he was with your district and he was driven out. I would hazard to guess he was driven out because of his dictorial way of running a district while he screws teachers and staff out of salaries that are duly owed them under state law. Funny though he gives himself and his district staff fat raises. I wonder was he earning anywhere near his current salary of $160,000 while he was with your district.
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Tue May 5th, 2009 01:05 am |
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SeafordParent wrote:
i am not going to argue with you you seem to be satisfied with the status quo or are a member of it and dont like hearing how much you suck
It has nothing to do with "status quo" and everything to do with the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you are just repeating things your "disgruntled" teacher friend said.
It's pretty well established that you don't check facts, or you would know what Mr. Christy says is true.
Do something positive for a change. Quit whining.
3dd
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:30 pm |
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3dogday wrote: Oh boy! If those two are your "sensible leaders" then now I understand why you say ridiculous things. Neither were "chased off" as you state, but both left for other jobs. You really don't have a clue, SP. None of your ramblings ever made sense, and now we know why!
3dd
i am not going to argue with you you seem to be satisfied with the status quo or are a member of it and dont like hearing how much you suck
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 09:29 pm |
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Bill Christy wrote: George Stone doesn't believe he or his district has to follow the state guidelines and laws in place.
what school district does?
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Bill Christy Banned
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 02:17 pm |
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SeafordParent wrote: my source is someone who has been there for years when the school flourished under sensible leaders like Chad Carmack and George Stone. they werent bullies! and theyd still be here working wonders if they hadnt been chased off by stagnant backward thinking leaders like vansciver or earl cannon
George Stone is one of the worst administrators I have ever met. Ol George makes close to $160,000.00 in the Cape district. If you still had him he would be screwing up your school district as bad as he has Cape Henlopens. Maybe you should look into the number of lawsuits brought against the district by teachers and staff since George Stone arrived, mostly in regard to salary because George Stone doesn't believe he or his district has to follow the state guidelines and laws in place. Talk to taxpayers who approved a referendum for the new school and equipment only to find out the monies were used for pay raises for the district administrative staff.
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Mon May 4th, 2009 04:38 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: my source is someone who has been there for years when the school flourished under sensible leaders like Chad Carmack and George Stone. they werent bullies! and theyd still be here working wonders if they hadnt been chased off by stagnant backward thinking leaders like vansciver or earl cannon
Oh boy! If those two are your "sensible leaders" then now I understand why you say ridiculous things. Neither were "chased off" as you state, but both left for other jobs. You really don't have a clue, SP. None of your ramblings ever made sense, and now we know why!
3dd
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SOS Member
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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 12:31 am |
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| The Middle School has one of the best principals in Sussex County. She has developed a team. Like all teams, everyone can't be happy at the same time, but they can still be a team. She took on the challenge of a school that no one wanted. Her expectations are high for her students and for her staff and they are the same expectations that she holds herself and family to. The school district is lucky to have her in that position. She is definately promotable, but it will be a sad day for the Middle School when she moves into the superintendent's office.
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Fri May 1st, 2009 12:27 am |
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my source is someone who has been there for years when the school flourished under sensible leaders like Chad Carmack and George Stone. they werent bullies! and theyd still be here working wonders if they hadnt been chased off by stagnant backward thinking leaders like vansciver or earl cannon
Last edited on Fri May 1st, 2009 12:29 am by SeafordParent
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 11:13 pm |
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Sadly, you continue to talk about something with which you have no idea. My guess is your source is one of the problems at the middle school and not part of the solution either.
I will leave you to your posting - I will return to working with our schools and not against them. It is time better well spent.
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 09:45 pm |
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Seaford Parent Too! wrote: That would make her "Wonder Woman" instead of "Cruella"!
well that is what you are making her out to be with your nice comments about the job she has done. sadly it is all smoke and mirrors
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whocaresanymore Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 04:25 pm |
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Seaford Parent Too! wrote: Do you really think that any school, or principal, can make kids "perfect"? They are kids - the responsibility for their actions belongs to their parents more then any one at the school. Please don't tell me you think that it is her responsibility to cure all ills with kids, set the climate at the middle school, and the high school? That would make her "Wonder Woman" instead of "Cruella"!
There is no responsibility anymore. The kids take no responsibility for their actions (they blame someone else). The parents don't take responsibility for their kids actions(they blame someone else).
Teachers and administrators work with what they are given on a day-to-day basis. The kids have their minds made up well before the school day starts as to how their day is going to go.
Times have changed... Maybe someday we will once again have a society where someone will be able to say: "That was my fault" "He didn't do it, I did"
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 03:41 am |
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| Do you really think that any school, or principal, can make kids "perfect"? They are kids - the responsibility for their actions belongs to their parents more then any one at the school. Please don't tell me you think that it is her responsibility to cure all ills with kids, set the climate at the middle school, and the high school? That would make her "Wonder Woman" instead of "Cruella"!
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 03:06 am |
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| well if that is so and she has been on the job now for oh 3 or 4 years is it? then why hasnt it helped the high school out? they are the same kids she once had in the middle school, therefore they should be doing just as well for the next school, right? obviously nothing is true. that is all the evidence I need.
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 30th, 2009 01:34 am |
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| Zoo? You have to be kidding! That is so far from the truth! My bet is that your sources are those, who like many here, always find something to complain about! Most people who spend so much time complaining are usually part of the problem! My suggestion would be for them to go someplace else and then see if they really had anything to complain about after all! "Cruella" as you call her has shaped that school up!
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 09:09 pm |
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3dogday wrote: SP, II - You make a good point. It seems that people fuss when "nothing" is being done, and they criticize when someone does something!
3dd
exactly, something that is no good which is like nothing!
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 09:08 pm |
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Seaford Parent Too! wrote: Actually, it seems to me that people enjoy complaining. You have criticized the high school for not doing enough - but call the MS principal "Cruella", I assume for taking charge of her school - and getting results. Which do you want? Again, I will say that the middle school has made so many changes and things are going well!
it looks good on the surface but you actually have to talk to someone who works there, both my neighbor and my cousin, to get the real scoop. the place is still a zoo. the programs "Cruella" has started create an atmosphere that is as thin as the ozone layer. "Cruella" is as much a bully towards teachers as the high school principal just in a different way.
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 04:36 am |
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SP, II - You make a good point. It seems that people fuss when "nothing" is being done, and they criticize when someone does something!
3dd
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 03:26 am |
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| Actually, it seems to me that people enjoy complaining. You have criticized the high school for not doing enough - but call the MS principal "Cruella", I assume for taking charge of her school - and getting results. Which do you want? Again, I will say that the middle school has made so many changes and things are going well!
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 29th, 2009 02:10 am |
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SeafordParent wrote:
my grammar is poor by choice. i dont really want to look all that smart and besides i got tired of typing good. maybe stupid people read stupid easier
Well, at least you've accomplished one thing in your lifetime.
3dd
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 09:57 pm |
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3dogday wrote: Boy, SP, you think pretty highly of yourself if you think that Cruella, et al really sit around trying to figure out who you are!
Besides, I know who you are. You are one of "them". Those ignorant people who can't spell, have poor grammar, and have nothing to do but whine about things in the past. Or make them up. Your facts are frequently wrong, you repeat fourth-hand gossip, don't check your sources, and can't put together a coherent argument. You represent that 40% of the population that loves to stir the pot and isn't smart enough to have an original idea.
You are pathetic, ignorant, lonely, and live vicariously through others.
PS - See the little checkmark with the ABC over it? Use it occasionally.
3dd
and you are obviously one of the people who we are complaining about who never listen to us to begin with when we gave or submitted original ideas, who believes they are doing everything right, which is usually nothing, and live smuggly making 75000+ a year which is highway roberry for the results you actually produce.
my grammar is poor by choice. i dont really want to look all that smart and besides i got tired of typing good. maybe stupid people read stupid easier or take it more seriously. obviously they do since you are taking the time to read it and attack it 
as i have maintained all along no one would be hear complaining or saying anything if there was nothing to complain about but that is too hard to accomplish isnt it?
Last edited on Tue Apr 28th, 2009 09:58 pm by SeafordParent
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 02:22 am |
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Boy, SP, you think pretty highly of yourself if you think that Cruella, et al really sit around trying to figure out who you are!
Besides, I know who you are. You are one of "them". Those ignorant people who can't spell, have poor grammar, and have nothing to do but whine about things in the past. Or make them up. Your facts are frequently wrong, you repeat fourth-hand gossip, don't check your sources, and can't put together a coherent argument. You represent that 40% of the population that loves to stir the pot and isn't smart enough to have an original idea.
You are pathetic, ignorant, lonely, and live vicariously through others.
PS - See the little checkmark with the ABC over it? Use it occasionally.
3dd
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 11:18 pm |
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| as a matter a fact i was there for saturdays baseball game. in the school is a different story. i dont like getting interrogated anymore when i do go there, having no kids there anymore just nieces and nephews so i avoid it when i can. they are so desparetly trying to find out who all of us are so
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 03:01 am |
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| When was the last time you were at either school?
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:44 am |
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| thats because the middle school is run by Cruella DeVille or is it Eva Braun. besides, it hasnt filtered its way up to the high school yet has it. youd think if the kids were so well trained it would find its way up or follow along but it hasnt.
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Seaford Parent Too! Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:02 am |
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| Have you not paid attention to everything great going on at the Middle School? My child attends and it has been a wonderful experience!
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SOS Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 12:40 am |
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3dogday wrote: SOS - Apparently she also has no problem being a hypocrite. If Mrs. Kimpton gets elected, we'll have 2 school board members who don't send their children to Seaford. I don't get irritated very often but hypocrisy really bothers me. If you worked for GM you wouldn't buy a Honda.
3dd
There is currently one Kimpton child in the high school. How can that be hypocritic? There have been several staff members and even employees of the SHS that have their children in other schools or home schooled. It is important to have options and good matches for your children. Again, Mrs. Kimpton is one of the most dedicated parents in our school district. She is not only a dedicated parent, an excellent parent leader in the schools, and intelligent. The SHS administration cringes when she asks questions during the leadership meetings. She is not afraid of doing the right thing and asking the tough questions. She is an advocate for the children of the SSD. When she is on the board, I hope the SHS principal does not role his eyes the way he has in leadership meetings. Have you seen a GM plant parking lot lately? There are several Hondas and Toyotas in the parking lot. That is what happens when the quality drops.
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 02:58 am |
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3dogday wrote: SOS - Apparently she also has no problem being a hypocrite. If Mrs. Kimpton gets elected, we'll have 2 school board members who don't send their children to Seaford. I don't get irritated very often but hypocrisy really bothers me. If you worked for GM you wouldn't buy a Honda.
3dd
well when we vote for her, she will have 2 in the school. i don't blame her for sending her yougnest to ssas. the ms has not improved enough to get my confidence either! it is not hypocrasy, far from it! at least she is tired of the "old boys club" running the show in seaford, you don't hear that from the other 2 candidates. heck one said he doesnt see any real problems other than dress code. what is that? why are you running then other than to make a name for yourself?
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3dogday Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 24th, 2009 01:30 am |
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SOS - Apparently she also has no problem being a hypocrite. If Mrs. Kimpton gets elected, we'll have 2 school board members who don't send their children to Seaford. I don't get irritated very often but hypocrisy really bothers me. If you worked for GM you wouldn't buy a Honda.
3dd
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SeafordParent Member

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Posted: Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 10:48 pm |
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i find this funny, anyone else? 
"An Evening with the Superintendent"
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
from 6:00 p.m. until 8:00 p.m.
in the Ashok Champaneria Board Room
(located in the Seaford School District Administrative Offices at 390 N. Market Street, Ext.)
Parents and Community members are invited to attend for an opportunity to
meet and interact with Superintendent, Dr. Russ Knorr.
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SOS Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 17th, 2009 |
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Posted: Tue Apr 21st, 2009 11:23 am |
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I urge all the SSD residents to vote for K. Kimpton. She is the future of the SSD. She will fight for change and save our school district. She is bright, successful woman who has dedicated many many hours to the school district. She and her husband have raised and they are still raising a beautiful family.
She is not a "yes" person, and she is candid and direct. She does not provide lip service. If she does not know, she researches the issue. Her seat on the board will be one of the best things that has happened to the high school and the entire district.
She understands that the future of Seaford lies in the hands of the quality of education that we offer our students. She understands the power of strong leadership in the district and what is needed.
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SOS Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 17th, 2009 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 17th, 2009 01:09 pm |
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Folks! You just don't get it. When your computer has a virus, you fix it. When you are sick, you go to the doctors. The high school is sick and no one wants to fix it. There are parts of the school district that are sick, but no one wants to fix it.
The leadership of the high school needs to be removed or fixed. The fixing part has been tried. The high school leadership only communicates with a small circle of friends that tell him what he wants to hear. We do have good people at all levels in the high school. The problem is that the school leader does not want to listen, he does not care, and he never follows-through with anything that is attempted. He does not have appropriate people skills for dealing with staff, parents, and students. His attitude is about "me". Staff members try to bring problems and issues to him. He does want to hear it. Staff members have brought ideas to his side of the desk, he does not want to hear it. He only acts on a few things that might hit the media. He does not communicate with his staff, only a piece of the staff. For example, most of the teachers have to go to the Internet to see if the school is closing early due to inclement weather. Several staff members heard about the latest bomb threat from teachers at another school because their resource officer had shared with them that Seaford High School had a bomb threat. He does not know all the names of his staff. At the last open house, he struggled when he had to introduce his staff to the guests. He made the excuse that it was difficult because the staff was not sitting with their departments. To the best of my knowledge, he has never sent any member of his staff a card except for the group Christmas card. Staff have babies, deaths, illnesses, and other issues ---he does not care. Previous principals cared. He just lacks basic manners. Credit should be given to Dr. V and Dr. K. because they do these things and they do not have to. Cards are sent out from both of them for all kinds of situations and birthdays are recognized. Again, they do not have to do this. Yes, there are other leadership issues with these two gentlemen, but they do try to recognize and assist their staff that are in need.
The entire standards of the school and the morale of the school has declined rapidly since the last leadership change. Why doesn't anyone want to fix it? Only the people inside really know whats not going on. The high school school needs a new HEALTH PLAN!
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whocaresanymore Member
| Joined: | Fri Aug 15th, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 02:15 am |
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SeafordParent wrote: well guess what, you are in here gossiping about gossip i guess that makes you as bad as us doesnt it? you could just ignore it like your bosses do in seaford or maybe they arent and they are tired of it cause it is actually getting to them now. you think?
Nah, it'll never get to them. Til the day comes that they finally get taken out of that district, it'll never put a dent in their armor.
Like it was said before, certain people walk through the doors everyday at that school knowing they are hated from all sides, but yet, they still have no problem...
Maybe it's because of the paycheck...
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SeafordParent Member

| Joined: | Tue Mar 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 01:48 am |
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well guess what, you are in here gossiping about gossip i guess that makes you as bad as us doesnt it? you could just ignore it like your bosses do in seaford or maybe they arent and they are tired of it cause it is actually getting to them now. you think?
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Miss Manners Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 4th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 12:23 am |
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But admitted to being a gossip:
Gossip also serves as a non-demanding way of engaging in idle talk. It is an activity to pass the time with someone that requires no strain on the brain needed for creating substantive exchanges. We can just pass judgements on what the neighbors are doing as a form of entertainment.
For some people gossip is a way to avoid dealing with their own problems by concentrating on how poorly others solve theirs. It is a way to deflect criticism or even appreciation from others. Once the energy is placed on what others should do better, its mere wisdom frees us from becoming accountable for ourselves.
Some people use gossip with intended malice to harm others. This is a most despicable behavior that is never justified.
Ancient Eastern Indian mythology considers gossip a form of mental illness. Religions abhor and disallow it. Psychoanalysts report that gossip is harmful to the individual and creates many emotional difficulties such as suspiciousness, fear, mistrust and depression. Gossip is toxic to one's soul and destroys friendships and relationships.
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SeafordParent Member

| Joined: | Tue Mar 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 11th, 2009 01:54 am |
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| im no coward. i went to meetings district and other and voiced my opinions. i went unheard. now i choose to vent here
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Miss Manners Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 4th, 2008 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 10th, 2009 06:59 pm |
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| and cowardly
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