| Author | Post |
|---|
Jurisprudence
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 09:37 pm |
|
Let me say this about "speed traps" and I am addressing speed traps alone. The definition is well-founded in law. The higher courts in many states have ruled on it and the definition is accepted law. To basically repeat, a speed trap is in an area where vehicles are traveling on a higher speed roadway and is suddenly confronted with a dramatic drop in speed as indicated by a lower speed limit sign. It is further stated that enforcement in these locations are not supported by an "accident experience" or, in other words, an accident prone location (APL). Enforcement that ensues thereat is deemed for purposes of revenue and not "deterrence". Some police departments use an empty, or sometimes occupied, marked police vehicle in areas where speed is a significant factor in accidents at a particular location. The presence of the police acts as a deterrance and prevents speeding as opposed to waiting until someone enters into a particular zone after the fact.
The many fine men and women in police departments across the land take their duties very seriously. In practically every department, large or small, there is usually one, maybe two, officers that are overly exuberant in their quest for a high nuber of summonses. Many feel that it is not within the spirit of the law to "coop" in areas that are demed as "speed traps." They would rather wait for "true speeders" who may continue their high speed through a well established speed zone.
There has been unfavorable press regarding the police and summons activity as of late. This is a very small minority of officers. Please remember that there may come the day when all that stands between you and an assailant is that police officer.
|
cottoncandy
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 64 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 07:52 pm |
|
| Please try to be nonjudgmental; he is having a bad day.
|
yun1095
Member
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 01:11 pm |
|
I assume Police Officer are not issued Dictionary's or spell checkers on their computers.  Last edited on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 01:48 pm by yun1095
|
Someone
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Big Cave |
| Posts: | 1683 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 01:02 pm |
|
| O'boy
|
crazycatsmeow
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 9th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 48 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 12:59 pm |
|
| As a police officer for 25 years having served both the state police and a small town let me just say this. Headlines: 5 year old run over by speeding car comments from the citizens Where the heck are the police when you need them they never do anything they should have been here running radar! Grow up and obay the law. Most traffic enforcement is for protect the members of the community, example a car runs a stop sign and no accident happens should the violator get a ticket because nothing happened? No speeding tickets should be issued because no one got hurt. Let you child, mother, or wife, husband, or other get run over you will be the first to complain darn cops they do nothing. For many years in the small towns police officers were complained about cause the public sated they do nothing, now they are doing their job and folks still complain. The police work for the council and do awhat council request them to do and that is their jobs to enforce the laws of the State of Delaware. Want laws reduced contact your leg body to get rid of those pesky old traffic laws that you do not like. And only run traffic in high accident areas is a crock if you enforce the traffic code you prevent high traffic accident areas all over not just one area. You should thank Chief Hill for allowing his officers to do their job. I see them all over town not just on 300 they are on Rt 6 also. I love reading all the miss information in these blogs also such as the fine structure, the court procedures, and the one I love they gave me a ticket for doing 30 in a 25, no they stopped you fro a higher speed cut you a break and you still complaint. And for all you experts out there roadways in developments msut be adopted by the governing body before traffic enforcement can happen it does not mean that the criminla laws can not be enforced. Contact your homeowners association they have all the answers. Slow down, put the cell down, turn off the radio, an PAY ATTENTION all you morons and Thank God that you have a police department that cares. Thank God that all the towns have PD's that care, if the DSP or you start a County Force your taxes will look like NJ, NY, and PA that is why most of you people moved here to get away then you piss and moan move back......
|
Courtdog
Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 222 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 17th, 2008 07:29 pm |
|
Playing the Game wrote: Obey the speed limit and you will have nothing to complain about. Too simplistic, sir (or madam). There are those that DO obey the limits and are, as previous posts labeled it, sandbagged anyway. As illustrated in previous posts, those coming off a high speed roadway to a suddenly lower speed limit are often caught up in the proverbial speed trap. If one has driven well through the limit at a higher speed, then he/she deserves the summons. Tagging drivers in the beginning of a speed zone, especially when winding down, is unfair game and unrealistic. As others have posted before, the letter of the law was enforced but the spirit of the law has been violated.
|
Playing the Game
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 1174 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 11:58 pm |
|
| Obey the speed limit and you will have nothing to complain about.
|
willrobu2
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 40 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 14th, 2008 11:19 pm |
|
SmyrnaGuy wrote: willrobu2 wrote: The State has come up with a new formula for calculating speeding tickets. MPH over the posted speed X it's self = fine 5miles over 5X5=$25 10 miles over 10X10=$100 15 miles over 15X15=$225. Let the sandbagging begin !!!!
I believe that is only in the city of Newark where that was enacted.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808120360
The thing that worries me about going thru Clayton is they have a couple of Barney Fife's who want to pad their stats. So you might get pulled over doing the speed limit and then have them say you were speeding, and you have no recourse as it'd be up to you to prove otherwise.
Thanks for the information I heard about this on the radio and thought it was a state thing.
|
Hartlyboy
Member
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 07:52 pm |
|
| So, you can't get hauled before a JP right when you are arrested? I have to admit not having much recent experience with the system but I can recall many years ago, the State Trooper took my young buns down to the JP court there by the old Dairy Queen in Smyrna and, although I protested my innocence, the JP just peered over his glasses and said "You saying you never drove over the speed limit , boy?" Says I "Well, maybe some other time, but I wasn't this time" Says the JP "This fine will be for one of them other times" and charged me something like $37.50 and costs. I was so shook up by the whole thing of getting picked up , it wasn't until hours afterwards that I thought of all the clever things I should have said -or not said.
|
Jurisprudence
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 06:23 pm |
|
ForeverSmyrna wrote: What is the "self assessment center"? I know we have a voluntary assessment center where we mail in uncontested fines, but I've never heard of the self assessment center. Also, what is civil discovery? Not being an attorney, I don't understand some of this. I do believe that Bixby misspoke and that he meant the Voluntary Assessment Center. Civil discovery is similar to criminal discovery (Jenks Act material) whereby you may summon up certain data such as speedometer certifications of police cars, radar repair and testing certificates, DOT authorizations for traffic signs, engineering studies used to determine speed limits and zones, , police officer qualifications to operate certain equipment, number of traffic citations at a given location, designation of accident prone locations (APLs), etc.
|
ForeverSmyrna
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 102 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 05:09 pm |
|
| What is the "self assessment center"? I know we have a voluntary assessment center where we mail in uncontested fines, but I've never heard of the self assessment center. Also, what is civil discovery? Not being an attorney, I don't understand some of this.
|
Bixby
Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 25th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1311 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 02:12 pm |
|
Hartlyboy wrote: Can't you ask for a jury trial? Do you have to accept JP 'justice' on a traffic arrest? By removing your case you are in fact asking for a trial by jury, the reason being is that the Court of Common Pleas is a court of record. You are entitled to certain things in the CoCP that you do not get in JP Court, such as "civil discovery." If you get a traffic summons and it is for the Self Assessment Center, just make no plea at the time or do not return the summons. Write the Self Assessment Center and ask for a court date. It will be returnable to JP Court. At your JP arraignment, simply ask that the case be removed to the CoCP.
SmyrnaGuy wrote: The thing that worries me about going thru Clayton is they have a couple of Barney Fife's who want to pad their stats. So you might get pulled over doing the speed limit and then have them say you were speeding, and you have no recourse as it'd be up to you to prove otherwise. That is precisely what happens but do not limit it to Clayton PD. Other jurisdictions are also notorious such as Cheswold and Milford. People have had the same complaint whereby they were all "sandbagged" in speed zones that suddenly drop to 35 or 25 from a 50.
The DSP and NCCPD are less likely to engage in this behavior because they enforce higher speed zones where people routinely travel at least 20mph above the posted limit, and they should be ticketed. No need to pad the tab.
Last edited on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 02:17 pm by Bixby
|
SmyrnaGuy
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 289 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 01:58 pm |
|
willrobu2 wrote: The State has come up with a new formula for calculating speeding tickets. MPH over the posted speed X it's self = fine 5miles over 5X5=$25 10 miles over 10X10=$100 15 miles over 15X15=$225. Let the sandbagging begin !!!!
I believe that is only in the city of Newark where that was enacted.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808120360
The thing that worries me about going thru Clayton is they have a couple of Barney Fife's who want to pad their stats. So you might get pulled over doing the speed limit and then have them say you were speeding, and you have no recourse as it'd be up to you to prove otherwise.
|
Hartlyboy
Member
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 03:47 am |
|
| Can't you ask for a jury trial? Do you have to accept JP 'justice' on a traffic arrest?
|
Cobra
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 261 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 02:28 am |
|
Equally as guilty in the revenue raising scam are the justice of the peace courts which provide neither justice nor peace. Just like the cerfs who were brought to the Kings Bench by ye olde sheriff of Nottingham, ye are fair game for plunder.
|
willrobu2
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 40 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13th, 2008 12:52 am |
|
| I don't go anywhere near Clayton since I got stopped for having one tag light brighter than the other.
|
Hartlyboy
Member
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 11:07 pm |
|
| Perhaps the simplest thing to do is stay out of the towns with a 'rep' for revenue enforcement. That's kind of hard to do in the case of Clayton which has annexed land halfway to Kenton on Rte 300 and that is one of their favorite 'enforcement spots. While the yahoos roar around in Providence Crossing the cops are out there trying to catch people from Maryland and Delaware doing 53 past the cornfields.
|
willrobu2
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 40 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 09:49 pm |
|
| The State has come up with a new formula for calculating speeding tickets. MPH over the posted speed X it's self = fine 5miles over 5X5=$25 10 miles over 10X10=$100 15 miles over 15X15=$225. Let the sandbagging begin !!!!
|
Vindicator
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 399 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 05:50 pm |
|
ForeverSmyrna wrote: I say again - DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET A TICKET. That advice is good nationwide. Doesn't matter if you're in NYC, Los Angeles or Clayton Delaware. Speedtrap - smeedtrap, same old BS. Pay attention, stay off the phone!! Bashing of small town cops seems to be a pass-time around here. Why not knock the DSP or NCCPD? They give tickets to speeders every day!
"According to the US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, heavy speed enforcement should occur at accident prone locations (APL) to reduce the incidents thereof." Seems to me that "heavy speed enforcement" should occur where there are the most speeders, ie. open roads that are not congested. No one disagrees with the fact that speed should be enforced at APL's but these conversations center on locations where there are NO APL's and speed enforcement is for purposes of revenue. It is overly simplistic just to state "dont speed or pay attention." People are gettting snagged in areas where the speed suddenly drops from a high speed zone to a much lower one like dropping to 25 mph from a 50 mph. They are ghetting snagged as they are winding down from the higher speed. As for not knocking the DSP of NCCPD, they are less likely to set up speed traps since they have roads that ar3e conducive to higher speeds and where they occur more frequently. Clayton and Cheswold and others have very limited areas in which to "work" so therefore they make their revenue where they can.
|
Someone
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Big Cave |
| Posts: | 1683 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 04:53 pm |
|
| Well if you say so, we can't go wrong. If only I had listened to you about things.
|
ForeverSmyrna
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 102 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 03:34 pm |
|
I say again - DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T GET A TICKET. That advice is good nationwide. Doesn't matter if you're in NYC, Los Angeles or Clayton Delaware. Speedtrap - smeedtrap, same old BS. Pay attention, stay off the phone!! Bashing of small town cops seems to be a pass-time around here. Why not knock the DSP or NCCPD? They give tickets to speeders every day!
"According to the US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, heavy speed enforcement should occur at accident prone locations (APL) to reduce the incidents thereof." Seems to me that "heavy speed enforcement" should occur where there are the most speeders, ie. open roads that are not congested.
|
Jurisprudence
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 06:34 pm |
|
| Revenue is the motivator of a speed trap where there is no discernable accident experience. According to the US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, heavy speed enforcement should occur at accident prone locations (APL) to reduce the incidents thereof. Where an APL is nonexistent and enforcement is common, it is deemed a speed trap. The chief or head of a department uses a quota system to induce officers into summons activity. Some try to get around the negative label of a quota system by calling it a “performance norm.” Summons quotas frequently force police officers to take actions against members of the community that are not completely necessary but are taken to satisfy so-called "productivity expectations" of police management. Quotas effectively force officers to take an action where a warning may otherwise suffice. They are bad for the community and they are bad for police/community relationships. This is one of the main reasons for disbanding small departments in favor of a county or state enforcement agency. More importantly, quotas are prohibited by law. For instance, in Los Angeles and New York City, an officer may file a grievance against his department if he is enticed, forced, punished, or transferred due to a lack of a “performance norm” or a quota. And the courts uphold such actions by the officers against the department. Can we say that about the small town departments in Delaware or even the DSP?
|
Bixby
Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 25th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1311 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 11:29 pm |
|
If they are Peace Officers, they may have statewide authority for a crime committed in their presence. They may pursue misdemeanors or felonies but not traffic infractions outside of their jurisdiction. That's generally the way it works nationwide but there some exceptions. Refer to the Delaware Code under "Crimes, etc."
|
Two Cents
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 508 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 10:49 pm |
|
| I wonder if the Clayton PD is willing / able to respond to calls for police assistance with crime reports in there? Or, is it still classified as "private property"? What type of criminal activity can the clayton police investigate or respond to in that development?
|
ProvidenceGirl
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 22 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 10:20 pm |
|
| But see it doesn't matter. Chief Hill stated at the Town Hall Meeting in July that they do not ticket speeders in Providence crossing because it's "still privately owned". So, they're literally JUST DRIVIN' BY!
|
curiousindover
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 28th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 353 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 4th, 2008 03:23 pm |
|
Just wait until Clayton P.D. gets funding for their new drug boat. Next will be tickets for fishing on the pond and there'll be joint drug boat investigations with Smyrna P.D. on Lake Como. Clayton already has cops staring into the windows of passing cars to see that you're wearing your seatbelt. Wonder when they will work on the real crime? Just curious.
|
Hartlyboy
Member
|
Posted: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 09:37 pm |
|
| So, the local revenue collectors go through the development once a week and wave because they can't do anything about lawbreakers in that part of their town. Why was the town is such an all-fired hurry to add cops if they weren't going to be able to use them -except to try to catch drivers out on a State road [300]? Sounds like this whole local law thing was set up as a source of income from the get-go.
|
Footloose
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 294 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 08:04 pm |
|
ProvidenceGirl wrote: Hi. Very true. I will stick up for the Clayton PD and say that they do go through the neighborhood, waving and saying hi. That's about it. They can't do anything else but there is a presence, every once a week maybe!! Yes, that's an acceptable method of deterrence. Omnipresence. If one wanted to deter speeders, post a marked car in the speed or accident location instead of lurking on the edge of a lower speed zone where people are winding down anyway. I can see the ticket is a driver is driving down a 50 mile road and continues the same speed into the town w/o slowing. That driver deserves it, but to snag people in the reduced zone is bad business. No wonder people have bad karma for the cops. This is not good public relations for them. Well, I guess it does raise revenue. I hope this discussion continues and someone does something about it.
|
ProvidenceGirl
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 22 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 03:14 pm |
|
| Hi. Very true. I will stick up for the Clayton PD and say that they do go through the neighborhood, waving and saying hi. That's about it. They can't do anything else but there is a presence, every once a week maybe!!
|
Hartlyboy
Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 09:21 pm |
|
| The Clayton Revenue Collector was down on 300 again today, way down near the end of the town line out by Med Davis. Wide road, little traffic and no houses around but he managed to snag someone coming toward town. While they are writing tickets out in the wilderness, old ladies and babies are at risk in Providence Crossing because they can't patrol there. Really? Not even drive through and show a presence? This whole town cop thing is getting to be a sad joke. Why not just let us mail in a tribute and save the town some money and us some aggravation.
|
Prophet of Doom
Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 19th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 214 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 08:44 pm |
|
My dear Old Guy. Read the law dictionaries for "speed traps." Try Ballantine's or Black's. Go to FindLaw.com and look up the cases on "speed traps." Those who stand by the road and cheer the revenuers will someday themselves be "sandbagged" and led to their doom!
|
Oldguy
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 125 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 03:11 pm |
|
| I see this is a waste of time, but how is it a "trap" if the speed is clearly posted? Because the driver isn't paying attention, that is a "trap"? I agree completely with you, there is a difference between the letter of the law and the intent of the law. The intent of a 25mph zone is for people to travel 25mph. The spirit is, you don't get stopped by the cops unless you are going more than several mph over that, taking into consideration the accuracy of YOUR speedometer. But, the town/county/state government makes the laws concerning the speed restrictions and where the signs go. The cops only enforce those laws as they are directed by the government for which they work. If there were no fine (revenue), what would you suggest the punishment be for breaking the law? Isn't there a fine for shoplifting, assault, robbery, etc? Is that revenue production, arresting criminals? When you get a ticket, take it to trial. The speed and fine are almost always reduced significantly anyhow. People who get tickets will always complain and blame the cop for the ticket and not themselves for violating the law. That's just how people are. It's always somebody else's fault.
|
The Insyder
Member
| Joined: | Sun Dec 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 461 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 02:50 pm |
|
Old Guy wrote:
All this banter still boils down to the same thing. DON'T VIOLATE THE LAW AND YOU WON'T GET A TICKET. Quit complaining!!
There are such things as speed traps and the higher courts have addressed this. They are illegal. Speed traps have been defined as a location whereby the speed drops from a higher to a lower speed at a location where there is no significant or non existent accident volume and where police vigorously enforce the letter of the law for the purpose of raising revenue and not for safety purposes. This brings us to the argument of the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law. What is the intent of the law? To promote safety or to produce revenue? Someone who is a few miles above the limit on an empty road whereby the speed is reasonable and prudent, does it necessitate a ticket? We're not talking about someone who is zooming at 60MPH through a street that is posted 30MPH. That is not reasonable nor prudent and is deserving is a ticket. I do believe the term is "sandbagging."
|
Oldguy
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 125 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 02:05 pm |
|
If you think you have that right, excercise it. I'm not taking up for cops who don't obey the law. I'm just tired of people complaining about getting a ticket for something they DID! That's all. Speed trap this, speed trap that. BS - no such thing as a speed trap. Don't speed and you won't get a ticket. Remember, ONE mile over the limit is speeding. Doesn't have to be 5, 10 or 20 miles over.
Watch the road, watch for signs, pay attention. Stay off the cell phone while you drive! Studies have shown that 99.9% of the people in prison are innocent! Framed by the cops or the crooked justice system that only punishes the poor who can't afford high priced lawyers. Again - BS!
BTW, where do you get those tickets to fill out to give to the cops that speed? I'd like to have some because I see it all the time. It irks me to no end to see a DSP Trooper pass me, speeding like a bat out of heck up the highway or interstate with no emergency lights on, TALKING ON HIS CELL PHONE! Can't hardly see a cop driving a car anymore who doesn't have a cell phone stuck in his ear. Thought they had radios in those cars.
|
Zymergy
Member
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 12:28 pm |
|
Oldguy wrote: All this banter still boils down to the same thing. DON'T VIOLATE THE LAW AND YOU WON'T GET A TICKET. Quit complaining!!
When we as citizens can give tickets to the police for speeding, failing to stop at a stop sign, failure to use proper signals, driving with a light out then maybe people will complain less. Police are supposed to uphold the law not be above it, which seems to happening a lot lately. As with any institution not all are bad, but those that are degrade the respect the good one deserve.
|
Oldguy
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 125 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 12:23 pm |
|
| All this banter still boils down to the same thing. DON'T VIOLATE THE LAW AND YOU WON'T GET A TICKET. Quit complaining!!
|
Vindicator
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 399 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 11:45 am |
|
The Justice of the Peace Courts in Delaware must be operating from Judge Roy Bean's (the hanging judge) procedural manual. Judge Bean was famous for saying, "before I pronounce sentence I guess I'll listen to your story. Then I'll hang ya." Good work, people.
|
Jurisprudence
Member
| Joined: | Wed Sep 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Delaware USA |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 31st, 2008 08:27 pm |
|
I am responding to what appears to be a flurry of complaints in this and other Delaware forums and to the "sound offs" as published in the DSN about speed traps and the courts. I have spent many years in various court systems and I will affirm that small town police such as mentioned in these forums (Clayton, Cheswold, Harrington, Milford, etc) exist primarily for the reason of revenue raising through traffic offenses, most notably, speeding. When one investigates the activities of small town PDs one will observe that the majority of their activities are engaged in traffic enforcement. As mentioned in other forums, this is not limited to Delaware nor is it the exclusive domain of small town. Big cities also engage in this revenue enhancing activity but the standards of enforcement are different as are the expectations of their peacekeeping activities. Larger municipalities are more apt to allow a higher threshhold before taking enforcement action as opposed to smaller town who may actually be picayune in their selection threshhold activities. Some posters here have even com-lained of "sandbagging" and having a few more miles per hour tacked on to their citations in order to increase revenue yield. Sad but true, people. Until we ,as citizens, demand more of our police in the way of ethics, especially small town PD's, we will continue to suffer injustices, real or perceived.
|
Cobra
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 261 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 7th, 2008 03:27 pm |
|
Bixby wrote: Footloose wrote: oldtimer wrote: I got a solution; Don't break the law!!!!!!!! You don't speed, don't run stop signs, renew your registration, pay your insurance and you won't get locked up. Wow how easy was that!!!
In a lot of police departments, at least the bigger ones, they got a "posted limit" (what the sign says) and an "enforced limit", that speed at what point a cop takes action. Real low speed vilations a few miles above a low limit is not their cup of tea saddling people with expensive fines. Bad news too when they tack on a few miles per hour (on the ticket) to up the revenue. In a perfect world, what you say, old timer, is true. High fines, court costs, fuel surcharges and on top of that, insurance rates (more plunder) makes it tough on people in these times. You have to temper such justice with mercy. Enforcement should be based on what's real. Sixty thru town is excessive. Thirty is not. Good analogy. Justice have to be tempered with mercy. As is said, and not often enough, it is not good to enforce the letter of the law but it is the spirit of the law that should prevail. "The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life." Good subject matter, people. Foot and Bix got it absolutely correct. I have heard personal stories from people who got nailed by Clayton and Cheswold police, especially the part where the speed is bumped up to what it actually was. Try to complain to their chiefs and they will hand jive you to death, They smile and turn a deaf ear. Maybe the state ought to investigate but I guess they will punt too.
|
oldtimer
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jan 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 57 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 6th, 2008 12:09 pm |
|
Someone; try too!! Like to check to make sure everything is correct; spelling, grammer, etc. But thanks for for asking!
|
Bixby
Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 25th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1311 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 05:21 pm |
|
Footloose wrote: oldtimer wrote: I got a solution; Don't break the law!!!!!!!! You don't speed, don't run stop signs, renew your registration, pay your insurance and you won't get locked up. Wow how easy was that!!!
In a lot of police departments, at least the bigger ones, they got a "posted limit" (what the sign says) and an "enforced limit", that speed at what point a cop takes action. Real low speed vilations a few miles above a low limit is not their cup of tea saddling people with expensive fines. Bad news too when they tack on a few miles per hour (on the ticket) to up the revenue. In a perfect world, what you say, old timer, is true. High fines, court costs, fuel surcharges and on top of that, insurance rates (more plunder) makes it tough on people in these times. You have to temper such justice with mercy. Enforcement should be based on what's real. Sixty thru town is excessive. Thirty is not. Good analogy. Justice have to be tempered with mercy. As is said, and not often enough, it is not good to enforce the letter of the law but it is the spirit of the law that should prevail. "The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life."
|
Someone
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Big Cave |
| Posts: | 1683 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 4th, 2008 01:02 am |
|
| So oldtimer you don't?
|
oldtimer
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jan 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 57 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 11:47 pm |
|
Footloose; Finally someone who makes some sense and puts some thought in a post!!! 
|
yungin
Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 5th, 2008 |
| Location: | The Hill |
| Posts: | 106 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 07:36 pm |
|
| i agree, footloose!!!!
|
Footloose
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 22nd, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 294 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 06:57 pm |
|
oldtimer wrote: I got a solution; Don't break the law!!!!!!!! You don't speed, don't run stop signs, renew your registration, pay your insurance and you won't get locked up. Wow how easy was that!!!
In a lot of police departments, at least the bigger ones, they got a "posted limit" (what the sign says) and an "enforced limit", that speed at what point a cop takes action. Real low speed vilations a few miles above a low limit is not their cup of tea saddling people with expensive fines. Bad news too when they tack on a few miles per hour (on the ticket) to up the revenue. In a perfect world, what you say, old timer, is true. High fines, court costs, fuel surcharges and on top of that, insurance rates (more plunder) makes it tough on people in these times. You have to temper such justice with mercy. Enforcement should be based on what's real. Sixty thru town is excessive. Thirty is not.
|
yun1095
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 01:29 pm |
|
| Yeah Oldtimer... do all that and then you'll be broke to pay for the TOS electric bill and get disconected... yyiippyy..
|
oldtimer
Member
| Joined: | Sun Jan 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 57 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 02:14 am |
|
| I got a solution; Don't break the law!!!!!!!! You don't speed, don't run stop signs, renew your registration, pay your insurance and you won't get locked up. Wow how easy was that!!!
|
no one else
Member
| Joined: | Sun Dec 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 347 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:36 pm |
|
ForeverSmyrna wrote: I agree with you save one point. The DSP does their fair share of revenue collecting as well, but doesn't ever seem to be blamed for it. They have special units assigned just for that purpose under the guise of "selective enforcement". We shouldn't always blame the local cops for everything. DSP is just spread too thin to be as visible as the locals.
Good point, FS, but at least the DSP doesn't sandbag for a couple few miles over the limit as do the locals. Cheswold is nototious for that. Bix is right. Clayton, and Cheswold too have unrealistic speed limits coming into their town limits, wherever that is. Both Cheswold and Clayton should have signs posted that one is enetering into their turf. They probably will not because they "poach" beyond the limits of their jurisdiction. Gotta get that money.
PS. I agree about the insurance companies too. They rank among the hated banks and mortgage lenders. Is there any justice in our lives???
|
ForeverSmyrna
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 102 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 03:50 pm |
|
| I agree with you save one point. The DSP does their fair share of revenue collecting as well, but doesn't ever seem to be blamed for it. They have special units assigned just for that purpose under the guise of "selective enforcement". We shouldn't always blame the local cops for everything. DSP is just spread too thin to be as visible as the locals.
|
Bixby
Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 25th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1311 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 01:27 pm |
|
The unfortunate thing is that we, the tax paying public, are viewed as nothing more than a source of revenue. Government is nothing more than the plundering hordes that ravaged the world throughout the centuries. Some collection methods were more beneficient than others.
Now with that ticket you received, you may not only be paying the fine and the additional plunder, your insurance company will now approach you, bat in hand. So you never got a ticket in 20 years? No matter. For some unknown reason, the insurance company finds this as reason for additional revenue enhancing. Why? What does it prove? What does it do?
Take into account that probably most drivers may well deserve a ticket, say for speeding. Speed is relative. A few paltry miles over a posted limit make no more of a safety hazard. Why? The sign can be changed at any time and can have any limit posted on it. If you are doing 60mph in a residential zone that is posted at 30mph, or 25mph, that's speed. But what if you are doing 35mph in a 30mph zone? What makes it speeding? The sign and nothing more. Jusyt look at some areas where the speed is suddenly dropped from 55mph or 50mph. Within a short distance wou are required to drop to 35mph and sometimes an additional 25mph.
That's a speed trap and the ticketing for relatively low speed is nothing less than sandbagging. Remember the main function of police departments today, especially the local departments, is the raising of revenue.
|
Current time is 08:06 am | Page: 1 2   |
|