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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 08:38 pm |
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4string wrote: No I'm not I never said I believed the Big Bang was what started it all I just used it as an exsample, and that there is at least some eveidence for it to at least it be a therory instead of a Myth like religion where there is no evidence. I take nothing on faith I want proof.True I can't prove the big bang nor can any one but can you or any one PROOVE there is a GOD!!! or even show some evidence of one?
I see the evidence everday in the order, pattern, and logic of nature and the universe. Something caused it.
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Themotgus
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 08:31 pm |
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Religion?
The Mot Gus shares his Religion.
The Mot Gus©™ is the third person!
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 08:28 pm |
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| No I'm not I never said I believed the Big Bang was what started it all I just used it as an exsample, and that there is at least some eveidence for it to at least it be a therory instead of a Myth like religion where there is no evidence. I take nothing on faith I want proof.True I can't prove the big bang nor can any one but can you or any one PROOVE there is a GOD!!! or even show some evidence of one?
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 08:14 pm |
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4string wrote: Sounds to be an Atheist that gave up. There are questions in the universe that will probably never be answered. Big Bang is one theory, another is that the universe has always been here. It is infinite in size and existence. But religion instead of asking and pursuing these questions just uses the answer God. Its much easier than having to think.
It seems to me that you are the one who has given up on the thinking. You can't explain how it all came into being. Neither can I since it is beyond human understanding. The Big Bang is a theory that explains the beginning of the universe as we know it, but it does not disprove "God". Where did the original matter come from? What force acted upon that matter to make it expand? You say that man created God to explain it but yet you can't seem to explain what created that matter or what started the Big Bang. You can claim you are not a scientist but that merely demonstrates that you are accepting their explanations on faith.
Let's put it this way. Say that the Big Bang is point on a timeline at which scientists believe the universe began. Those of use who believe in a Creator understand that something came before that point. You and your kind are unwilling to accept it. So tell me, who is being close-minded?
Then some like yourself say that the universe always existed. That's no different than someone saying that God always existed, and yet that belief is scoffed at. I believe that the universe was created by looking at two simple things. First, the order, logic, and patterns in nature demonstrate the existence of something that was not random. It was purposeful. Second, this order in the universe is an extension of the force that started it. The original cause. The label by man given to that origin or source is God - Creator of the universe.
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:34 pm |
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| Sounds to be an Atheist that gave up. There are questions in the universe that will probably never be answered. Big Bang is one theory, another is that the universe has always been here. It is infinite in size and existence. But religion instead of asking and pursuing these questions just uses the answer God. Its much easier than having to think.
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flsr
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 05:12 pm |
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| Firefly, Thank you for posting that. That article should answer every question posed about the existence of God. I am going to copy it and send it to a couple of people who are doubting.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:29 pm |
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 I found this article and copied it because I think allot faster than I type but this article is a summary of what I think too.
Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?
3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.
The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?
Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.
This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.
There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence -- arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.
I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."9
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.10
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."11 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."12
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.
Last edited on Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:14 pm by Firefly1958
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:21 pm |
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4string wrote: No I,m no scientist so I can't answer it, but unlike religion just because I don't know dose not mean it must have been God. Thats how this whole religion thing got started. Why dose the wind blow um um.... God.
Scientists can't answer it either. They surmise, they guess, but in the end they cannot answer the questions because our finite minds are incapable of comprehending it.
They do not know the origins of the universe because they cannot escape the underlying logic of the question, "What came before that?" or "What was its cause?"
Scientists have drawn a line (the Big Bang) at a point they feel comfortable to admit that they can't answer the next logical question. They assume, or have faith, that scientific explanation will lead them to the previous cause, but the problem is explaining the next cause, then the next, and then the next. You can't escape it.
God is that original cause that you painfully admit you "don't know". God is somewhere at the beginning of it all. We just don't know how far back the explanation goes.
But you must wonder how a universe apparently governed by rationality and logic can be created out of nothing. If the universe has a design, it must have a designer. That is logic plain and simple. Religion in the general sense is the belief/faith that there is a God out there who created it all. Belief in God is not irrational .
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:16 pm |
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| No I,m no scientist so I can't answer it, but unlike religion just because I don't know dose not mean it must have been God. Thats how this whole religion thing got started. Why dose the wind blow um um.... God.
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designdiva
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:06 pm |
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For every day i wake up I HEAR FROM GOD......JMHO Diva 
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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I take it you didn't answer my question because you cannot.
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 03:55 pm |
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| Chicken and the egg. Are we alone? Are we Gods only ant farm? If we are Gods children, what parent gives birth to a child and then says ok you are on your own? Even the worst of the worlds leaders have at least made an appearance from time to time to let the subjects know they were still in control.. What else could he be busy with if we are all there is? I think if there was a God we would hear from him a little more often. Why keep quiet? Seems the only time he dose show up is to rain some destruction down to let us know that we are messing up. If he ran a company it would be bankrupt. His leader ship skills are very lacking.
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 03:32 pm |
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4string wrote: Well there is nothing that proves it was the doing of some God. As a matter of fact there is more proof of the Big Bang theory. At least it is a theory and not a Myth.
The Big Bang is not proof that God does not exist. Where did the matter come from that started the Big Bang? In other words, what came before it?
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 03:20 pm |
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| Well there is nothing that proves it was the doing of some God. As a matter of fact there is more proof of the Big Bang theory. At least it is a theory and not a Myth.
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 02:10 pm |
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4string wrote: No proof can be given of the exsistance of any God.
Here we go again. Go back and read the conversation on this thread earlier about the existence of God. How do you explain the origins of the universe?
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4string
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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| No proof can be given of the exsistance of any God.
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Icare
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 12:53 pm |
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T-BONE wrote: 4string wrote: V.R. is right if you kept a child in a bubble and taught them to believe in Santa they would always believe in Santa. I was raised Christian, Mormon at that not too strictly, but I always had questions, and later after most questions were answered and ended up leaving me with more questions I did some looking on my own, and came to my own conclusions as an adult. I am no religious scholar and never will be. I'm may at time sound cynical and maybe I am but in truth these are honest questions I have, and again the answers just leave me with more questions. Maybe this is the curse of being Atheist, It is probably easier to just accept what you are told, but I have to have questions. I live a very moral life, I don't drink, or use drugs. I try to be respectful of others. I'm very honest ( Thats right an Honest Car Salesman, ask any of my customers. I don't sell people cars, people buy cars from me. ), I'm also kind almost to a fault. I feel I live a good life and try as much as possible to do good in my life. So if there was a heaven I think I might have a chance, depending on which religion or even version of one of them is right, I might. I mean you tell me that a child molesting murderer can get in just because he asked for forgiveness, and I don't have a shot, because I may have been wrong. If God is truly merciful I don't think so.
In order to be an atheist, one must know or simply believe that God does not exist. That means that one must possess evidence that proves that God does not exist. In fact, the atheist must know (and thus be able to prove) the following:
1. Matter is eternal, having existed non-contingently, without a beginning.
2. Matter is all that exists.
3. Matter has always existed.
4. No one piece of matter is worth any more than any other piece of matter.
5. By sheer chance, dead matter became living matter.
6. By sheer chance, dead matter became conscious matter.
7. By sheer chance, dead matter became a human being.
8. By sheer chance, dead matter developed conscience.
But the atheist cannot know or prove any of these eight items! Even modern science acknowledges that the Universe is not eternal. These eight are but a fraction of the insurmountable barriers to proving atheism. So the atheist cannot prove the very things that must be proven in order to assert that God does not exist. “Professing to be wise, they became fools.... [and] exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:22,25).
I think you've got it backwards. It's your job to prove that God exists.
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T-BONE
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 12:49 pm |
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4string wrote: V.R. is right if you kept a child in a bubble and taught them to believe in Santa they would always believe in Santa. I was raised Christian, Mormon at that not too strictly, but I always had questions, and later after most questions were answered and ended up leaving me with more questions I did some looking on my own, and came to my own conclusions as an adult. I am no religious scholar and never will be. I'm may at time sound cynical and maybe I am but in truth these are honest questions I have, and again the answers just leave me with more questions. Maybe this is the curse of being Atheist, It is probably easier to just accept what you are told, but I have to have questions. I live a very moral life, I don't drink, or use drugs. I try to be respectful of others. I'm very honest ( Thats right an Honest Car Salesman, ask any of my customers. I don't sell people cars, people buy cars from me. ), I'm also kind almost to a fault. I feel I live a good life and try as much as possible to do good in my life. So if there was a heaven I think I might have a chance, depending on which religion or even version of one of them is right, I might. I mean you tell me that a child molesting murderer can get in just because he asked for forgiveness, and I don't have a shot, because I may have been wrong. If God is truly merciful I don't think so.
In order to be an atheist, one must know that God does not exist. That means that one must possess evidence that proves that God does not exist. In fact, the atheist must know (and thus be able to prove) the following:
1. Matter is eternal, having existed non-contingently, without a beginning.
2. Matter is all that exists.
3. Matter has always existed.
4. No one piece of matter is worth any more than any other piece of matter.
5. By sheer chance, dead matter became living matter.
6. By sheer chance, dead matter became conscious matter.
7. By sheer chance, dead matter became a human being.
8. By sheer chance, dead matter developed conscience.
But the atheist cannot know or prove any of these eight items! Even modern science acknowledges that the Universe is not eternal. These eight are but a fraction of the insurmountable barriers to proving atheism. So the atheist cannot prove the very things that must be proven in order to assert that God does not exist. “Professing to be wise, they became fools.... [and] exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator” (Romans 1:22,25).
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flsr
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 10:00 pm |
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4string wrote: No where in the bible is this mentioned.
Apparently you have read the entire Bible. A believer could quote many scriptures to you that would explain many questions you have, but since you have read the entire Bible and chosen not to believe any of it, it would be like something the deciples were cautioned about, not throwing their pearls before swine.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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P.VanTassell wrote: I don't know how these people are seeing Jesus...I'm just seeing John Lennon.
This is something ,John Lennon once said he was greater than God.He didn't deflect any bullets that day .
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 09:56 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: If you condition an infant from birth to believe that there is a God and the Bible is the word of God, then they will believe so.
If you condition an infant from birth to believe the bible is a fictious book, then they will believe so.
It is interesting when a child grows to adulthood and makes up his/her own mind.
I wasn't brought up in a church ,my parents didn't attend church, if I had question and studied and researched I would find a answer ,I'm not a scholar either but if I need a answer, I look until I find it.And I no that no matter what anyones say ,I will not be move ,I stand firm in my belief.Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 10:02 pm by Firefly1958
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 09:50 pm |
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4string wrote: V.R. is right if you kept a child in a bubble and taught them to believe in Santa they would always believe in Santa. I was raised Christian, Mormon at that not too strictly, but I always had questions, and later after most questions were answered and ended up leaving me with more questions I did some looking on my own, and came to my own conclusions as an adult. I am no religious scholar and never will be. I'm may at time sound cynical and maybe I am but in truth these are honest questions I have, and again the answers just leave me with more questions. Maybe this is the curse of being Atheist, It is probably easier to just accept what you are told, but I have to have questions. I live a very moral life, I don't drink, or use drugs. I try to be respectful of others. I'm very honest ( Thats right an Honest Car Salesman, ask any of my customers. I don't sell people cars, people buy cars from me. ), I'm also kind almost to a fault. I feel I live a good life and try as much as possible to do good in my life. So if there was a heaven I think I might have a chance, depending on which religion or even version of one of them is right, I might. I mean you tell me that a child molesting murderer can get in just because he asked for forgiveness, and I don't have a shot, because I may have been wrong. If God is truly merciful I don't think so. Agreed!
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 08:55 pm |
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| V.R. is right if you kept a child in a bubble and taught them to believe in Santa they would always believe in Santa. I was raised Christian, Mormon at that not too strictly, but I always had questions, and later after most questions were answered and ended up leaving me with more questions I did some looking on my own, and came to my own conclusions as an adult. I am no religious scholar and never will be. I'm may at time sound cynical and maybe I am but in truth these are honest questions I have, and again the answers just leave me with more questions. Maybe this is the curse of being Atheist, It is probably easier to just accept what you are told, but I have to have questions. I live a very moral life, I don't drink, or use drugs. I try to be respectful of others. I'm very honest ( Thats right an Honest Car Salesman, ask any of my customers. I don't sell people cars, people buy cars from me. ), I'm also kind almost to a fault. I feel I live a good life and try as much as possible to do good in my life. So if there was a heaven I think I might have a chance, depending on which religion or even version of one of them is right, I might. I mean you tell me that a child molesting murderer can get in just because he asked for forgiveness, and I don't have a shot, because I may have been wrong. If God is truly merciful I don't think so. Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 08:56 pm by 4string
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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If you condition an infant from birth to believe that there is a God and the Bible is the word of God, then they will believe so.
If you condition an infant from birth to believe the bible is a fictious book, then they will believe so.
It is interesting when a child grows to adulthood and makes up his/her own mind.
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Zarawer
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 08:10 pm |
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Firefly1958 wrote: Zarawer wrote: T-BONE wrote:
The point I want to make is this: whenever the Word of God is clearly taught and accepted, that nation rises to great heights economically, socially and politically. In other words, everything is connected to the Word of God, and the proclamation of it. Jesus said, "The Word of God is alive and powerful and will accomplish whatever the Lord desires." (Heb. 4:12 & Isaiah 55:11).
You can believe this, that's your right. Open your eyes though, if you live your life thinking everything is affected by God in some way you are living in a bubble, in other words you are brain washed. It's great to have Faith, and a Belief in something or someone. But come on, quit trying to shove it down peoples throats.
I have to ask ,what are you doing on this thread then?You remind me of another poster JMD........ the same?
Using an open forum to discuss or debate about a topic. Any other questions?
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 08:05 pm |
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| Ok so even if 6 days = 6000 years still a time lapse from 4.7 billion years. Also dose not explain why the idea of a one God didn't start till 2000 BC, and the Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, Most of the world never heard of him till any where from 2000 - 200 years ago. there are tribes in South America that still have no idea about him. If we all came from Adam and Eve then how was he forgotten, and again with the great flood World wide flood every one was wiped out except Noah's family (and of course 2 of EVERY living creature) the gene pool started all over again, but yet there Were Black people in Africa, Brown people in the Americas, Asians in Asia,all from 1 gene pool, that never heard of The One God. So is the Bible stories or the word of God? It is claimed to be the word of God, until it dose not make sense then people start with well that part is a story to set an exampled. Can you pick and choose one from the other? If one chapter in a book is fiction then the book is then a work of fiction, Maybe based on some actual events, but which events. Religion says the Bible is true. History and science say different. Some believers seem to think they can pick and choose. I,m not just speaking of Christians,,,Jewish,and Islamic beliefs are just as messed up. How you can all start off with the same book and end up in totally different places, and hatting each other so much because of it. Religion will be the end to man kind, and it will not be the doing of any God but of man thinking he is doing Gods will. Look at Iran, Israel, and the U.S. Kill us all in the Name of God Where is that written to be his wishes.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 07:35 pm |
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Zarawer wrote: T-BONE wrote:
The point I want to make is this: whenever the Word of God is clearly taught and accepted, that nation rises to great heights economically, socially and politically. In other words, everything is connected to the Word of God, and the proclamation of it. Jesus said, "The Word of God is alive and powerful and will accomplish whatever the Lord desires." (Heb. 4:12 & Isaiah 55:11).
You can believe this, that's your right. Open your eyes though, if you live your life thinking everything is affected by God in some way you are living in a bubble, in other words you are brain washed. It's great to have Faith, and a Belief in something or someone. But come on, quit trying to shove it down peoples throats.
I have to ask ,what are you doing on this thread then?You remind me of another poster JMD........ the same?Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 07:46 pm by Firefly1958
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 07:28 pm |
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T-BONE wrote: firefly wrote:
2Pe 3:8
But 1161, beloved 27, be 2990 0 not 3361 5209 ignorant 2990 of this one 1520 thing 5124, that 3754 one 3391 day 2250 [is] with 3844 the Lord 2962 as 5613 a thousand 5507 years 2094, and 2532 a thousand 5507 years 2094 as 5613 one 3391 day 2250
The passage should be considered in the light of its context. The material heavens and earth are to suffer destruction by fire, despite the mockers who scoff at such predictions and who allege, in the face of the earth’s earlier destruction by water, that all things must continue as they are from the beginning (2 Peter 3:1-7). All such are “willingly ignorant,” and refuse to accept the clear and obvious lessons of history. Faithful followers of the Lord are not to be influenced by these skeptics, but to remember “that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
By this the apostle meant that the passing of time does not, in any way, affect the performance of God’s promises or threats. He is not influenced by the passing of the centuries; and the lapse of time between the promise or threat, and the performance, is no factor, at all. With man, it definitely is. That which we promise to do tomorrow, we are much more likely to do, than that which we promise next year, or in the next century, since we may not be here then to fulfill the promise. But, this limitation, so characteristic of man, does not influence Deity. The passing of a thousand years, to God, does not alter his plans and purposes any more than a day, and he will carry them out as he has planned, regardless of the amount of time which is involved.
Read the prior seven verses, it will help with understanding.
What is odd is that they picked this particular verse.
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T-BONE
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 07:04 pm |
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firefly wrote:
2Pe 3:8
But 1161, beloved 27, be 2990 0 not 3361 5209 ignorant 2990 of this one 1520 thing 5124, that 3754 one 3391 day 2250 [is] with 3844 the Lord 2962 as 5613 a thousand 5507 years 2094, and 2532 a thousand 5507 years 2094 as 5613 one 3391 day 2250
The passage should be considered in the light of its context. The material heavens and earth are to suffer destruction by fire, despite the mockers who scoff at such predictions and who allege, in the face of the earth’s earlier destruction by water, that all things must continue as they are from the beginning (2 Peter 3:1-7). All such are “willingly ignorant,” and refuse to accept the clear and obvious lessons of history. Faithful followers of the Lord are not to be influenced by these skeptics, but to remember “that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
By this the apostle meant that the passing of time does not, in any way, affect the performance of God’s promises or threats. He is not influenced by the passing of the centuries; and the lapse of time between the promise or threat, and the performance, is no factor, at all. With man, it definitely is. That which we promise to do tomorrow, we are much more likely to do, than that which we promise next year, or in the next century, since we may not be here then to fulfill the promise. But, this limitation, so characteristic of man, does not influence Deity. The passing of a thousand years, to God, does not alter his plans and purposes any more than a day, and he will carry them out as he has planned, regardless of the amount of time which is involved.
Read the prior seven verses, it will help with understanding.Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 07:13 pm by T-BONE
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Razorback75
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 06:51 pm |
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The History channel explained how the parting of the Red Sea could actually happen using computer models. There is a part that is shallow enough that under the right conditions with a strong wind could -- for a short time -- create a pathway people could cross.
The story of Jonah describes a "big fish" -- not a whale. Not saying whether it happened or not, but the story is not about a "whale."
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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4string wrote: The Bible has been changed already. King James did a nice editing job to make it fit what he wanted it to say. And where did you get this tidbit from?Its meaning keeps getting changed to try and keep up with the times and our growing education, and understanding of what is has really caused certain things in the world. The Lord said don't change one jot of this teaching if any one reads a international version or anything other than Hebrew or Greek with the exception of the King James Version you run the risk of getting the wrong interpretation,The King James edition even states that it was translated the best they could at the time and that there could be errors ,if you feel it was in error you can always take it back to the original text and look it up Just like the idea that a day to God could be a million years to us.Actually that is a thousand years .No where in the bible is this mentioned.Ah yes it is But to try and explain the discrepancies in the Bible some one came up with this explanation. If a volcano erupts, or a tidal wave hits and wipes out an area today, do we say, oh God was mad at them?That is not a good thing to do . No we know what caused these events.
I put this in here in case you want to take it back to Greek or Hebrew
2Pe 3:8
But 1161, beloved 27, be 2990 0 not 3361 5209 ignorant 2990 of this one 1520 thing 5124, that 3754 one 3391 day 2250 [is] with 3844 the Lord 2962 as 5613 a thousand 5507 years 2094, and 2532 a thousand 5507 years 2094 as 5613 one 3391 day 2250Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 06:54 pm by Firefly1958
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 05:31 pm |
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| Oh I know there are some actual historical events mentioned in the Bible. But the parting of the red sea, walking on water, being swallowed by a whale ( "No whale's throat is big enough to swallow a human whole " Discovery Channel ) All these things are fiction that where passed off as truths, until modern time s where now they are being said by most to be metaphorical in meaning. So even religious people are starting to disbelieve parts of the Bible, but still maitain it to be the word of God, How could God be wrong?
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Razorback75
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 04:31 pm |
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Is there some fiction mixed in to make a point -- I suspect so. Jesus loved to teach by using parables.
But actually, I believe there are other historical records of Jesus -- mentions of him by historians at the time. And most cultures have a flood story, although not always the same name (Noah). Other things in the Bible have been backed up either through other historical documents or archaeological finds.
Gotta love those 'history and the Bible' specials on the history channel!
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 04:07 pm |
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| I believe each religions text has some good moral values, but has far as it being written by a God or even it being the word of a God I do not believe. Most of the morals in religious text are really common sense that did not need a God's Divine thought to come up with. As far as how the world, and, there after man came into being, and quite a few other events described it is just too ridiculous.The things preformed by Noah, Johna's, Moses, Jesus, others including God are fiction. There is actually no recorded proof that any of these people even existed except in biblical text.
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Razorback75
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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| Something to consider -- the Bible was not written in English. Unless you are reading it in the original language -- which probably is not even spoken anywhere in the world these days -- you are reading a translation. And every time something is translated, there is a chance that the person, intentionally or otherwise, adds something of their own interpretation. People have free will. If God were directing the hand of every translator we would not have so many slightly different versions of the same texts. For example, a debate over whether or not Jesus had brothers and sisters comes from a word that can be translated as "relatives" or "siblings". I believe in the spirit of the teaching of the New Testament.
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 01:44 pm |
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| The Bible has been changed already. King James did a nice editing job to make it fit what he wanted it to say. Its meaning keeps getting changed to try and keep up with the times and our growing education, and understanding of what is has really caused certain things in the world. Just like the idea that a day to God could be a million years to us. No where in the bible is this mentioned. But to try and explain the discrepancies in the Bible some one came up with this explanation. If a volcano erupts, or a tidal wave hits and wipes out an area today, do we say, oh God was mad at them? No we know what caused these events.
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flsr
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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Zarawer wrote: They why on earth would you think the Bible is be all end all of fact?
Because it is. It is the inspired word of God. But that is only for those of us who believe in Him.
What messes people up is the different interpretations, and the different gods they choose.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
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bigbear from the north
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Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2008 03:26 am |
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OkeeNarnie wrote: Odd isn't it how, we as humans, turn to God in times of trouble.
Precisely. While I may not agree that our highest political, social, and economic achievements are the direct result of our faith in God, I do believe that it is that faith that allows us to handle such success appropiately, and sustains us when those conditions falter.
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OkeeNarnie
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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Zarawer wrote: Lets ask this question. Do you "always" believe what you read or are preached to?
Chances are, you would say no to that question. They why on earth would you think the Bible is be all end all of fact?
First part of your question... If the speaker is quoting the Bible then yes I believe what I hear. If it is just an interpretation to make a point...I listen but do not always agree.
Second part of your question...The Bible is what we have to sustain us until, like Gods word tells us, Jesus will return to claim his Bride. (the church). If Christians did not believe what the word tells us there is no reason for life. No explanation of existence which explains everything. Science tries but falls short in so many areas. (But then, man usually does when he tries to second guess God)
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Zarawer
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 05:08 pm |
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Lets ask this question. Do you "always" believe what you read or are preached to?
Chances are, you would say no to that question. They why on earth would you think the Bible is be all end all of fact?
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OkeeNarnie
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