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OkeeNarnie
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 03:14 pm |
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Never one to get riled...LOL
This thread is in place FOR Christians to state anything religious, any way they choose. There are other threads for those who believe differently to do the same. We chose to have these in place so as to (maybe) keep some of the other threads free from personal religious feelings.
did I say that right guys...stepping down from the soap box amid cheers from the peanut gallery.
I have such a great imagination...
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Zarawer
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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designdiva wrote: Zarawar...can you explain how is T- Bone shoving things down people throats ?? On this forum we 'normally' try to respect each others postings and opinions .....
Diva 
Maybe, I'm just less tolerant to religious fanatics or ones I perceive as such. When one uses an open forum or media out lit to convey ones belief this will always open up cans of worms in my opinion. They can post there opinions doesn't mean I have to agree.
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designdiva
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 02:58 pm |
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Zarawar...can you explain how is T- Bone shoving things down people throats ?? On this forum we 'normally' try to respect each others postings and opinions .....
Diva
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Zarawer
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 02:53 pm |
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T-BONE wrote:
The point I want to make is this: whenever the Word of God is clearly taught and accepted, that nation rises to great heights economically, socially and politically. In other words, everything is connected to the Word of God, and the proclamation of it. Jesus said, "The Word of God is alive and powerful and will accomplish whatever the Lord desires." (Heb. 4:12 & Isaiah 55:11).
You can believe this, that's your right. Open your eyes though, if you live your life thinking everything is affected by God in some way you are living in a bubble, in other words you are brain washed. It's great to have Faith, and a Belief in something or someone. But come on, quit trying to shove it down peoples throats.
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T-BONE
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 02:41 pm |
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Has anyone ever stopped to consider that the more we get away from the Bible the worse things get? The more we get away from the Bible the more teen violence we see, the more we get away from the Bible the more widespread becomes child and spousal abuse. The more we get away from the Bible the greater becomes the lack of respect for each other, road rage becomes increasingly worse, and the great work ethic that went with the Christian teachings of the Bible is becoming scarce.
Therefore, everyone who reads this should know that it is the teaching of the Bible through the United States of America that has brought us our great prosperity and peace, nothing else. The Bible tells us in Psalm 33:12, "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord..." Proverbs 14:34, "Righteousness exalts (lifts up) a nation, but sin (rebellion, violence, disrespect for authority) is a reproach to any people." II Chronicles 7:14, "If My people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face; and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and will heal their land."
The point I want to make is this: whenever the Word of God is clearly taught and accepted, that nation rises to great heights economically, socially and politically. In other words, everything is connected to the Word of God, and the proclamation of it. Jesus said, "The Word of God is alive and powerful and will accomplish whatever the Lord desires." (Heb. 4:12 & Isaiah 55:11).
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4string
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 05:29 pm |
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| The forbidden fruit was knowledge, education, thinking for your self, questioning what the bible says no matter how little sence it might make you know like the story of Adam and Eve, and how we all came from one family, one gene pool. Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 05:33 pm by 4string
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designdiva
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 03:41 pm |
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I like that....( kicked out )..LOL
here's a link for interesting read......
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/forbidden-fruit-faq.htm
Diva 
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okeegator
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 03:35 pm |
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| But remember that there was only Adam and Eve. God only told them to be fruitful and multiply after they were kicked out.
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designdiva
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 03:31 pm |
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| Okeegator...well sex could not be the "forbidden fruit" or we all wouldn't be here...another thought ........and of course JMHO.......Diva
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okeegator
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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| I have a friend with a crazy but thought provoking theory. What if the "forbidden fruit" in the Garden of Eden was sex? Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 03:07 pm by okeegator
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4string
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 02:03 pm |
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Many religions have an issue with sex. The Christin's have many different views depending on which one you subscribe to. The Catholics are some of the strangest. No birth control they want their followers to pump out as many new Catholics as they can, while at the same time they deny their priest the same privilege. ( Well most priest some just prefer children and their vows of celibacy some how draw these sick individuals to the priesthood) On the other extreme you have some Mormon sects that have multiple wives and tons of kids. Actually if it wasn't for laws all Mormons would be practicing polygamy.
The Muslims are way wacked on the subject. They dress and treat their females as if they can't control them selfs if they were actually allowed to see what they looked like.
All in all what I'm really getting at is our true way to immortality is through our children. They are our most cherished part of our lives. More so than life its self. Who would not give their life for their child's? A lot of people do not find true love till the love for a child enters their life. It is the same for all Earth's creatures. It is why we are here, and what keeps us here.
Of course we humans think so much more of our selfs that most think there has to be more to it. We have a higher purpose because we are special. Well we are no more special than any other being, we are actually worst than most. No other species on the planet is destroying it like we are. Nature is balanced. We are the cog in the machine. Which leads to another question, if God is perfect, then why after creating a perfectly balanced world, would he then create the most imperfect animal of all Humans? If we are created in his image why are we so imperfect. Could it be that God, or the concept of God is imperfect. Perhaps because God is a creation of the imperfect man? Instead of it being the other way around? It makes more sense.
Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 02:27 pm by 4string
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 08:06 pm |
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flsr wrote: 4string wrote: Yes they are insects and fish, but it just goes to show that at the most basic level even. Sex is the driving force even over survival. Most religious people think Sex is bad even evil,Really? Who did you ask? Sex is the most natural thing we do. It is The one activity we share with all living things, even plants. (ok you can place the word reproduction, for sex when needed I just like SEX better)
He said "be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth with your numbers" He probably thought we wouldn't unless we enjoyed it. Oh wait, aren't you the one who doesn't believe in God? Somehow we got away from that.
This is a religion thread...not a biochemistry thread.
Good call, flsr.
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flsr
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 07:07 pm |
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4string wrote: Yes they are insects and fish, but it just goes to show that at the most basic level even. Sex is the driving force even over survival. Most religious people think Sex is bad even evil,Really? Who did you ask? Sex is the most natural thing we do. It is The one activity we share with all living things, even plants. (ok you can place the word reproduction, for sex when needed I just like SEX better)
He said "be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth with your numbers" He probably thought we wouldn't unless we enjoyed it. Oh wait, aren't you the one who doesn't believe in God? Somehow we got away from that.
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 05:17 pm |
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Just to clarify, 4string is using sex as reproduction. Fair enough.
My point was that survival brings reproduction, reproduction; life. You can't make another if you're dead.
And of course we can't always use sex for the term reproduction, hermaphroditic worms don't have sex. Fish don't have sex, they lay eggs and then later fertilize them. But that is nit picking.
We're all basically agreeing for the most part. You must survive long enough to reproduce and must reproduce to continue a species.
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 05:09 pm |
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| Yes they are insects and fish, but it just goes to show that at the most basic level even. Sex is the driving force even over survival. Most religious people think Sex is bad even evil, Sex is the most natural thing we do. It is The one activity we share with all living things, even plants. (ok you can place the word reproduction, for sex when needed I just like SEX better)
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designdiva
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:55 pm |
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4string...those are insects ...LOL............Just think IF all that applied to the HUMAN race....Whom would we pick to be the mate who dies...MAN OR WOMAN ???? I can guess who the woman would vote for ......... Diva
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:54 pm |
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| If survival was the driving force, explain Salmon, black widows, praying mantis, and others that breed then die, obviously to them reproduction is more important. the population will continue to grow, because sex is important to most. Their are starving people all over the world yet even though they can not feed them selfs they keep having children. Like I said before, with age the sex drive dose decrease in some, and others do not put much importance on sex probably because they have never had the chance to participate in it that much. But it is what makes the world go around. Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 05:02 pm by 4string
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 04:23 pm |
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4string wrote: Perhaps I was a little too simplistic try to get a little of a comedy effect. It is true that reproduction is the biggest driving factor of all living things. As far as believing it when younger but not as you have aged, Sex dose loose its priority as some of us age.
Its obvious that you are confusing sex with reproduction.
Survival would be the driving force behind continued existance of the animals and, as such, humans. Not sex.
Also, sex isn't a priority, nor is it a necessity. However, reproduction is only a necessity if you want to continue the population. Which we might want to slow down about(who needs 5 children anymore?) but thats for another topic.
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 03:20 pm |
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| Perhaps I was a little too simplistic try to get a little of a comedy effect. It is true that reproduction is the biggest driving factor of all living things. As far as believing it when younger but not as you have aged, Sex dose loose its priority as some of us age.
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designdiva
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:25 pm |
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PVT....roflmbo....  Diva
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:10 pm |
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designdiva wrote: I think sometimes people confuse the ACT OF SEX with REPRODUCTION - the end result of having SEX................... JMHO Diva
So a turkey baster isn't in this category I assume?
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designdiva
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 07:02 pm |
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| I think sometimes people confuse the ACT OF SEX with REPRODUCTION - the end result of having SEX................... JMHO Diva
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 06:58 pm |
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Life is for Sex? really?
So, two worms doing the horizontal spermatophore is also sex I assume? What about a plant getting freaky with pollen?
Or are you talking about the human harlequin sex? The kind of crap on TV and in the movies.
Clarify please.
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designdiva
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 06:09 pm |
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4string..... I don't understand your outlook that our existence is all for SEX !! So is all the other stuff we do along the way in the course of our lives not important ??
Maybe i am just not READING what you have posted correctly or shall I change the frame of mind when reading it....I always thought my life had more purpose to it than what you stated ?????
As far as you being an aethist I dont have a problem with that..I believe we are all entitled to have our own beliefs and at the end of the day that's all that matters..Who's to really say whether anyone of us are right or wrong in our beliefs ?? And before ya all blast me i was raised a Catholic because that's what my Mother wanted..Not my choice .....Now that i am an adult i sometimes question the workings of the catholic church.........Diva
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flsr
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 05:55 pm |
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4string wrote: There I have answered the age old question for you all. Ours, and every living being, from a single cell to plants to we humans the great goal, meaning, purpose of our existence is SEX
I used to think that too when I was young.
Now that I have grown up I can see there is a lot more to life and our beginning and end than your explanation.
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4string
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 04:06 pm |
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| No I'm an Atheist. I do believe that some of the different bible teachings have a good moral value, and hold my own moral standards to be very high in my opinion. As far as doing so because I believe that there is some one watching over me I do not believe. Religion can be abused as any power can, and it can do good too. Believing in an after life and that our time here on Earth is not what we really are has left the Earth in pretty bad shape. As an Atheist I believe that the time we have on Earth is All we have, and we should do what ever we can to make it better, not just for us but for the future. The way to immortality is through our children, and to make things harder for them is just wrong.Thats why the true meaning of life is SEX it is the reason all life exist and the goal of all living things. To carry on though offspring. There I have answered the age old question for you all. Ours, and every living being, from a single cell to plants to we humans the great goal, meaning, purpose of our existence is SEX.
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 02:47 pm |
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4string wrote: Where was God before 2000BC when Judaisms was founded? If the story of Adam is true then God would have been known of from the beginning of time, but the idea of one god (The Jewish,Christian, and Islamic one anyway) did not come about until 2000BC. So where was he? Except for the Hindus( 300BC) religion was the worship of many gods each having their different duties, and varied from one region to another. 95% of the world never heard of the one god idea until missionaries brought it to them. If the stories of Adam, and again Noah where the world was wiped out were true, then all humans would have been on the one god religion. Since we all came from one family we would have all been taught the same thing. If the stories were true we would have no known start date for Judaism. It would have always been in existence, or at least some form of a one god religion. Was it just to make things simpler? One God, easier to remember who to praise or blame. Oh wait the Devil was invented to take the blame off of Gods shoulders. I find it all just not to well thought out, and too unbelievable. May be for the education level of the peoples that lived 2000 years ago, but today??????
So you believe there is no God? or gods?
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pops
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 02:19 pm |
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4string wrote: Wow no one can answer that one. Could it be because the Being that so many believe is the creator of the universe was actually created himself by man.
One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.
The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."
God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"
But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."
The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.
God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!" 
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4string
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 01:58 pm |
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| Wow no one can answer that one. Could it be because the Being that so many believe is the creator of the universe was actually created himself by man.
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 04:29 pm |
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| Where was God before 2000BC when Judaisms was founded? If the story of Adam is true then God would have been known of from the beginning of time, but the idea of one god (The Jewish,Christian, and Islamic one anyway) did not come about until 2000BC. So where was he? Except for the Hindus( 300BC) religion was the worship of many gods each having their different duties, and varied from one region to another. 95% of the world never heard of the one god idea until missionaries brought it to them. If the stories of Adam, and again Noah where the world was wiped out were true, then all humans would have been on the one god religion. Since we all came from one family we would have all been taught the same thing. If the stories were true we would have no known start date for Judaism. It would have always been in existence, or at least some form of a one god religion. Was it just to make things simpler? One God, easier to remember who to praise or blame. Oh wait the Devil was invented to take the blame off of Gods shoulders. I find it all just not to well thought out, and too unbelievable. May be for the education level of the peoples that lived 2000 years ago, but today?????? Last edited on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 05:09 pm by 4string
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 02:10 pm |
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4string wrote: I for was fully aware that T-Bone was using resources in his posting and never got the impression that he was trying to pass it off as his own. A lot of us look things up and post that information here. As far as trying not to base thing on opinion well that is what this is for to express your opinion. Just because it is written some where saying one thing dose not make it true or that we have to agree with it, thus we have our own opinion. This topic fits that category to the tee.
Concerning T-Bone using that quote about micronage as an argument, for a minute there I thought we had someone who knew a lot about the subject.
As for me, unless I am typing something off the top of my head, I will give the person credit for the information they provided for me to use.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 02:05 pm |
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T-BONE wrote: PLAGIARIZE : TO STEAL AND USE (THE IDEAS OF OTHERS) AS ONE'S OWN
Even though I have a degree, I read, study and utilize any information available, I try not to respond with emotions or personal opinion, I will research, study and attempt to come to an educated conclusion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect that. I did not claim the information given, as my own and did not wish to give that impression.
The definitions given for Evolution and Adaptation were taken from Mr. Webster
The information on the Whitetail adaptation came from several different sources, Internet, biology books ect.
But what about micronage? What about the rest of my response?
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4string
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Posted: Thu Jun 19th, 2008 01:33 pm |
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| I for was fully aware that T-Bone was using resources in his posting and never got the impression that he was trying to pass it off as his own. A lot of us look things up and post that information here. As far as trying not to base thing on opinion well that is what this is for to express your opinion. Just because it is written some where saying one thing dose not make it true or that we have to agree with it, thus we have our own opinion. This topic fits that category to the tee. Last edited on Thu Jun 19th, 2008 01:36 pm by 4string
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T-BONE
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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PLAGIARIZE : TO STEAL AND USE (THE IDEAS OF OTHERS) AS ONE'S OWN
Even though I have a degree, I read, study and utilize any information available, I try not to respond with emotions or personal opinion, I will research, study and attempt to come to an educated conclusion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect that. I did not claim the information given, as my own and did not wish to give that impression.
The definitions given for Evolution and Adaptation were taken from Mr. Webster
The information on the Whitetail adaptation came from several different sources, Internet, biology books ect.
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 04:35 pm |
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| Fair enough.
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4string
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 04:34 pm |
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| No not at all. Both World Wars were not religious, Korea, Vietnam, were not either, and I'm sure there were plenty of atheist in all of them. I don't believe It was really a point to it just an observation.
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 04:18 pm |
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4string wrote: It all comes down to evidence, Evolution there is some evidence not conclusive but at least some. There is no evidence of the existence of any God. When questioned for such evidence all religious people always end up saying Faith. The definition of faith is believing in something that IS NOT THERE. Wars are fought over this faith. Millions of people have died because of faith, theirs or some one Else's. Religion has killed more people than any other source through out history. Be it Christian, Jewish,Muslim,Hindu, or Pagans the belief in some all seeing, all powerful being has had a bad effect at times. "Believe as I do or Die"
If there was a Hell I think the only ones not going are Some of the un contacted tribes in South America. Who have never heard of religion, and there for never had a chance to twist it for their own usage.
You have heard the term their are no atheist in fox holes, thats because atheist don't go on Crusades, or Jehad's.
So by your logic, atheists don't fight in wars or all wars are religious by nature.
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 04:17 pm |
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4string wrote: It all comes down to evidence, Evolution there is some evidence not conclusive but at least some. There is no evidence of the existence of any God. When questioned for such evidence all religious people always end up saying Faith. The definition of faith is believing in something that IS NOT THERE. Wars are fought over this faith. Millions of people have died because of faith, theirs or some one Else's. Religion has killed more people than any other source through out history. Be it Christian, Jewish,Muslim,Hindu, or Pagans the belief in some all seeing, all powerful being has had a bad effect at times. "Believe as I do or Die"
If there was a Hell I think the only ones not going are Some of the un contacted tribes in South America. Who have never heard of religion, and there for never had a chance to twist it for their own usage.
You have heard the term their are no atheist in fox holes, thats because atheist don't go on Crusades, or Jehad's.
The following is a post I had written for this thread a while back. You can go back and read the conversation conjeel and I had over the existence of God:
Obviously you knew where that line of questioning was going (in reference to my previous post about the possiblity of a higher intelligence). But you had to admit that you do not know the origins of the universe because you cannot escape the underlying logic of the question, "What came before that?" or "What was its cause?"
Scientists have drawn a line (the Big Bang) at a point they feel comfortable to admit that they can't answer the next logical question. They assume, or have faith, that scientific explanation will lead them to the previous cause, but the problem is explaining the next cause, then the next, and then the next. You can't escape it.
God is that original cause that you painfully admit you "don't know". God is somewhere at the beginning of it all. We just don't know how far back the explanation goes.
But you must wonder in the recesses of your obviously intelligent mind how a universe apparently governed by rationality and logic can be created out of nothing. If the universe has a design, it must have a designer. That is logic plain and simple. Religion in the general sense is the belief/faith that there is a God out there who created it all. Belief in God is not irrational .
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4string
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 04:14 pm |
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It all comes down to evidence, Evolution there is some evidence not conclusive but at least some. There is no evidence of the existence of any God. When questioned for such evidence all religious people always end up saying Faith. The definition of faith is believing in something that IS NOT THERE. Wars are fought over this faith. Millions of people have died because of faith, theirs or some one Else's. Religion has killed more people than any other source through out history. Be it Christian, Jewish,Muslim,Hindu, or Pagans the belief in some all seeing, all powerful being has had a bad effect at times. "Believe as I do or Die"
If there was a Hell I think the only ones not going are Some of the un contacted tribes in South America. Who have never heard of religion, and there for never had a chance to twist it for their own usage.
You have heard the term their are no atheist in fox holes, thats because atheist don't go on Crusades, or Jehad's.
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 02:25 pm |
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T-BONE wrote: The problem is that the word Evolution is being used in the meaning of Adaptation "now", and this is an incorrect usage!
In the beginning, the word Evolution was used to mean that a Species could Evolve into another Species!
Of course this does not happen, so when the Evolutionist started understanding this, it was just convenient for them to then say that Evolution was the same as Adaptation, which it is not!
Each species is controlled at staying that species and "ONLY" that species, by the Frequency which governs them!
What allows for the great variance within each species, is the Micronage !
The Micronage is what allows each species to adapt to their environment, thus giving a great variety within each species!
But the Frequency of each species, still prevents any species from Evolving into another species, as was first thought to be the case by the Original meaning of the initial Evolutionist!
So the Evolutionist are just adapting the meaning of the words in a way to try to cover their "BUTT" so to speak, from their initial "BLUNDER" in the beginning's! I found the website where you got "your" quote. http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=414397 Can you not plagiarize someone else? So you go and cut-and-paste together a post and pass it off as your own? So tell me, in your own words, more about micronage and from where you got your information.
Evolution : The theory that groups of organisms, as species, may change over time so that descendants differ morphologically and physiologically from their ancestors.
Adaptation: An often hereditary alteration or adjustment by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.
Good example is the Whitetail deer (odocoileus virginianus), there are 37 subspecies of whitetail deer in North and South America (This does not include mule deer and blacktail deer which belong to a separate species), but DNA testing shows that the deer now listed as sub-species are actually locally adapted versions of the near perfect original.
Take the Key Deer ( Odocoileus virginianus clavium) and compare them to a Michigan Whitetail (Odocoileus virginianus) the adaptation is evident - small bodied, thin haired Key Deer have adapted to extreme southern conditions. The Michigan deer, large bodied, thick haired have adapted to the extreme northern conditions, but the two share the same DNA. Some would call this evolution, which cannot be proven scientifically, but species adaptation can be proven. You probably got this from another website, and I have not taken the time to look. However, you seem to have a misunderstanding of natural selection. How do the animals adapt to their environment? We humans have learned to manipulate our environment in order to survive. Animals can't do this, and they also cannot manipulate themselves. But over time, the characteristics or traits that an animal has that allows it to survive the environment are passed on to the next generation. Those individuals that do not have the trait and cannot adapt will then die. Thus, over many years two deer living in different parts of North America will have developed differently. Adaptation is natural selection, and natural selection is the basis of evolution.
Smile, its a no brainer (T-Bone's only original thought in this post) That, my friend, is a no-brainer.
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Icare
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 02:06 pm |
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conjeel wrote: Getting Halloween mixed up with the Bible? You are stupid. Halloween and the Bible are one and the same thing -- spook stories.
If I had used the work "spirits" instead of "spooks"... would that have made it better? You believe in "eternal life", yes? (you must if you're a Southern Baptist). Well, what do you call those spirits? They're ghosts, right? Or... as I put it... "spooks."
And as for "goblins"... who runs Hell ? You're a religious person, yes? You believe this crap, don't you? So I'll ask you a direct question: You believe Hell is real, yes? So... who runs it? Some devilish beings must run it, yes? Can I call them "goblins"?
So... how am I mixing up Halloween with the Bible?
you religious types crack me up.
Very interesting and insightful.
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Icare
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 02:04 pm |
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T-BONE wrote: The problem is that the word Evolution is being used in the meaning of Adaptation "now", and this is an incorrect usage!
In the beginning, the word Evolution was used to mean that a Species could Evolve into another Species!
Of course this does not happen, so when the Evolutionist started understanding this, it was just convenient for them to then say that Evolution was the same as Adaptation, which it is not!
Each species is controlled at staying that species and "ONLY" that species, by the Frequency which governs them!
What allows for the great variance within each species, is the Micronage !
The Micronage is what allows each species to adapt to their environment, thus giving a great variety within each species!
But the Frequency of each species, still prevents any species from Evolving into another species, as was first thought to be the case by the Original meaning of the initial Evolutionist!
So the Evolutionist are just adapting the meaning of the words in a way to try to cover their "BUTT" so to speak, from their initial "BLUNDER" in the beginning's!
Evolution : The theory that groups of organisms, as species, may change over time so that descendants differ morphologically and physiologically from their ancestors.
Adaptation: An often hereditary alteration or adjustment by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.
Good example is the Whitetail deer (odocoileus virginianus), there are 37 subspecies of whitetail deer in North and South America (This does not include mule deer and blacktail deer which belong to a separate species), but DNA testing shows that the deer now listed as sub-species are actually locally adapted versions of the near perfect original.
Take the Key Deer ( Odocoileus virginianus clavium) and compare them to a Michigan Whitetail (Odocoileus virginianus) the adaptation is evident - small bodied, thin haired Key Deer have adapted to extreme southern conditions. The Michigan deer, large bodied, thick haired have adapted to the extreme northern conditions, but the two share the same DNA. Some would call this evolution, which cannot be proven scientifically, but species adaptation can be proven.
Smile, its a no brainer
Wow, that is very interesting.
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T-BONE
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Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 02:54 am |
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The problem is that the word Evolution is being used in the meaning of Adaptation "now", and this is an incorrect usage!
In the beginning, the word Evolution was used to mean that a Species could Evolve into another Species!
Of course this does not happen, so when the Evolutionist started understanding this, it was just convenient for them to then say that Evolution was the same as Adaptation, which it is not!
Each species is controlled at staying that species and "ONLY" that species, by the Frequency which governs them!
What allows for the great variance within each species, is the Micronage !
The Micronage is what allows each species to adapt to their environment, thus giving a great variety within each species!
But the Frequency of each species, still prevents any species from Evolving into another species, as was first thought to be the case by the Original meaning of the initial Evolutionist!
So the Evolutionist are just adapting the meaning of the words in a way to try to cover their "BUTT" so to speak, from their initial "BLUNDER" in the beginning's!
Evolution : The theory that groups of organisms, as species, may change over time so that descendants differ morphologically and physiologically from their ancestors.
Adaptation: An often hereditary alteration or adjustment by which a species or individual improves its condition in relationship to its environment.
Good example is the Whitetail deer (odocoileus virginianus), there are 37 subspecies of whitetail deer in North and South America (This does not include mule deer and blacktail deer which belong to a separate species), but DNA testing shows that the deer now listed as sub-species are actually locally adapted versions of the near perfect original.
Take the Key Deer ( Odocoileus virginianus clavium) and compare them to a Michigan Whitetail (Odocoileus virginianus) the adaptation is evident - small bodied, thin haired Key Deer have adapted to extreme southern conditions. The Michigan deer, large bodied, thick haired have adapted to the extreme northern conditions, but the two share the same DNA. Some would call this evolution, which cannot be proven scientifically, but species adaptation can be proven.
Smile, its a no brainer
Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 03:17 am by T-BONE
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okeegator
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:40 am |
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T-BONE wrote:
Species evolution and evolution/adaptation are different.
So then explain how they are different. Stating it doesn't make it so.
Your two previous paragraphs make a different point, and some good points I might add.
Last edited on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:43 am by okeegator
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T-BONE
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 03:04 am |
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The naturalistic philosophy of modern science has created a dilemma for evolution. No known laws of nature allow complex, living, information-containing systems to develop from the random interactions of matter. Yet, this is what is required in order for life to have evolved in the universe. Creationists accept that life appeared on earth as a direct creative act of God. The design and information that we see in all living things is a result of an intelligence—not random occurrences. Many biologists try to separate the origin of life (sometimes called chemical evolution) and the universe from discussions of biology. These scientists recognize the challenge presented by chemical evolution, but their commitment to naturalism leaves them no other choice. Many different models are used to explain how life can come from nonliving matter, but all of these models, including the famous Miller-Urey experiment, fail to account for the many chemical and biological barriers to spontaneously forming life.
In the face of the challenges to chemical evolution, one of the codiscoverers of DNA has proposed that life was actually “seeded” by some alien intelligence. This does not solve the problem but only pushes the origin of life problem to another place. It also takes the issue out of the scope of science—such a hypothesis cannot be tested, it must be accepted on faith. The failure of science to demonstrate how, where, when, or why life was naturally formed makes the acceptance of chemical evolution a matter of faith. Other attempts to explain how life formed are riddled with “maybe” and “possibly.” It requires more faith to believe that the universe and all of the living things on earth came from a big bang than it does to accept that the design we see must have had a Designer. God has revealed how life began on earth—He spoke it into existence.
Species evolution and evolution/adaptation are different.
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 02:58 pm |
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T-BONE wrote:
No one ever could be convinced that Stonehenge "just happened" by accident, yet atheists and agnostices expect us to believe that this highly ordered, well-designed Universe (and the complicated life it contains) just happened." To accept such and idea is to break stride from what is natural to believe because the conclusion is unreasonable, unwarranted, and unsupported by the facts at hand. The cause simply is not adequate to produce the effect.
The central message of the cosmological argument, and the Law of Cause and Effect upon which it is based, is this: The Universe is here: intelligent life is here; morality is here; love is here. What is their adequate antecedent cause? Since the effect never can precede, or be greater than the cause, it then stands to reason that the Cause of life must be a living Intelligence which Itself is both moral and loving. When the Bible records, "In the beginning, God," it makes known to us just such a First cause.
Everyone concludes naturally and comfortably that highly ordered and designed items(machines, houses, etc.) owe existence to a designer. It is unnatural to conclude otherwise. But evolution asks us to break stride from what is natural to believe and then believe in that which is unnatural, unreasonable, and unbelievable. The basis for this departure from what is natural and reasonable to believe is not fact, observation, or experience but unreasonable extrapolations from abstract probabilities, mathematics, and philosophy.
Okeegator wrote:
I agree with you on many of your first points, but I disagree with your comments about evolution. Belief in evolution does not contradict belief in a Creator. Evolution could have been God's method to create and sustain life. Natural selection (evolution) is not unnatural. It is easily demonstrated in nature.
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T-BONE
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 08:57 am |
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JMD WROTE:Assuming that the universe has a design is unfounded in any logic.
The universe has proven itself to be a random collection of gases and atoms. There is no rhyme or reason to the universe.
Humans believe that there is a God because we want there to be one.
Its like this: close your eyes and picture nothing. You can't. Now, close your eyes and picture a clear infinite horizon. It isn't possible. You mind pics a colour to use.
For the nothing analogy you mind choses black and for the clear your mind choses white.
Its the same for this: Close your eyes and picture nothing before something. Its not possible.
It has been proven that something can not come from nothing. Its just a fact. There has to be something before you can have anything.
A table comes from wood, wood comes from trees, trees come from the dirt, dirt comes from rocks, rocks come from the earth, and here is the rub.....where did earth come from?
My belief is as follows...to me this is how the universe began.
All matter in the universe was condensed into an infine form of itself by gravity. Then after time the friction of this matter built up and the gravity expanded causing gas, atoms, molecules, etc to rocket out into what we know is the universe. Over time gases formed clouds, clouds formed stars, gases formed rocks, rocks formed planets.
In earths case the situation was right that life could evolve. And this isn't some divine plan it is coincidence. The same coincidence that choses your hair colour.
Try this one. At some point in time you never existed...try and imagine that.
You can't.
At one point you were a microscopic strand of DNA that is now a fully formed human because you evolved from Chromosomes into a Human.
Think about this...What is the point of the life of a mosquito? Mosquitos are the same as humans chemically. But there is no mosquito creator, no mosquito heaven. So, what is the point of the life of a mosquito.
And before you say that a mosquito feeds animals and animals feed humans think about this one.
A man is in Africa on a safari, he is killed and eaten by a lion. What was the point of his life? It was to keep that lion alive.
Just think about it, it is all happenstance and chance.
No one ever could be convinced that Stonehenge "just happened" by accident, yet atheists and agnostices expect us to believe that this highly ordered, well-designed Universe (and the complicated life it contains) just happened." To accept such and idea is to break stride from what is natural to believe because the conclusion is unreasonable, unwarranted, and unsupported by the facts at hand. The cause simply is not adequate to produce the effect.
The central message of the cosmological argument, and the Law of Cause and Effect upon which it is based, is this: The Universe is here: intelligent life is here; morality is here; love is here. What is their adequate antecedent cause? Since the effect never can precede, or be greater than the cause, it then stands to reason that the Cause of life must be a living Intelligence which Itself is both moral and loving. When the Bible records, "In the beginning, God," it makes known to us just such a First cause.
Everyone concludes naturally and comfortably that highly ordered and designed items(machines, houses, etc.) owe existence to a designer. It is unnatural to conclude otherwise. But evolution asks us to break stride from what is natural to believe and then believe in that which is unnatural, unreasonable, and unbelievable. The basis for this departure from what is natural and reasonable to believe is not fact, observation, or experience but unreasonable extrapolations from abstract probabilities, mathematics, and philosophy.
Last edited on Wed May 28th, 2008 08:59 am by T-BONE
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IMHO
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 01:53 pm |
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| Doggone T-Bone, after that post it had me reaching for my wallet. Thought you were going to pass the plate for a love offering.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 02:49 am |
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Icare wrote: I totally agree with you, and it's still happening today. I find it terrible that some local churchs tell us how to vote. I don't know by what crazy means of logic the churchs used to proclaim they would all support Republicans.
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