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Icare
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 05:55 pm |
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I totally agree with you, and it's still happening today. I find it terrible that some local churchs tell us how to vote. I don't know by what crazy means of logic the churchs used to proclaim they would all support Republicans.
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Razorback75
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Posted: Thu May 22nd, 2008 08:14 pm |
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| I think early religions were part of man's attempts to explain the world around him.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu May 22nd, 2008 07:34 pm |
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Last edited on Thu May 22nd, 2008 08:00 pm by Firefly1958
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4string
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Posted: Thu May 22nd, 2008 05:32 pm |
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| The whole idea of religion was created by man to have control or power over his fellow man.
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Rayne Drops
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 02:35 am |
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 04:29 pm |
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Rayne Drops wrote: *SIGH*
A triumphant return maybe?
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Rayne Drops
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Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 01:02 am |
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*SIGH*
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 07:46 pm |
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conjeel wrote: Firefly:
From one of your posts:
"..if the pope would have allowed the people to have Bibles they would have known better..."
They would have known better ? Laugh out loud.
You don't acknowledge my main point which is that the Bible DOES prescribe torture of heretics. You're supposed to know the Bible... "he that doesn't believe in me... will suffer.." and all that. The Bible provides ample support for the torture of heretics and non-believers. The popes and the church and the people knew the Bible quite well.. The reason why YOU don't believe in torturing people is cause you're a member of modern secular society which tempers the cruelty and immorality of the Bible. The only reason we are as advanced morally as we are is because of technology, science, and the modern world of secular progressive society. The ancient world knew the Bible very well -- they didn't know anything else. THAT's why they were vicious and cruel. Cause they knew the Bible.
Sigh! Papal claims,Yet in spite of the character of the general run of Popes, their methods,and the secular and bloody record of the Papacy,these "Holy Fathers"claim that they are the" Vickers of Christ" Infallible and that they "Hold on earth the place of Almighty God and that OBEDIENCE to THEM is necessary to salvation.Hildebrand ordered Bohemians not to read the Bible ,Innocent III forbid laymen to own a Bible in their own language.GregoryIX forbid its translations among the Albigenes and Waldenes were burned and people burned for having them.PaulIV prohibited the translation with out permission of the inquisition.The Jesuits induced ClementXL to condemn the reading of the Bible by laymen. LeoXII,PiusVIII,Gregory XVI and Pius IX ALL condemned Bible societies, in the Catholic countries the Bible IS a unknown book..................And the reason we are advanced morally as we are is because of the New Testament.Last edited on Sat May 10th, 2008 03:45 pm by Firefly1958
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 02:56 pm |
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I didn't mean now but that's fine. Later then.  Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 02:56 pm by okeegator
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conjeel
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:33 pm |
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| okeegator: no more time, man... I have a job. perhaps tomorrow.
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okeegator
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:13 pm |
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| Still waiting, conjeel.
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conjeel
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:57 pm |
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Firefly:
From one of your posts:
"..if the pope would have allowed the people to have Bibles they would have known better..."
They would have known better ? Laugh out loud.
You don't acknowledge my main point which is that the Bible DOES prescribe torture of heretics. You're supposed to know the Bible... "he that doesn't believe in me... will suffer.." and all that. The Bible provides ample support for the torture of heretics and non-believers. The popes and the church and the people knew the Bible quite well.. The reason why YOU don't believe in torturing people is cause you're a member of modern secular society which tempers the cruelty and immorality of the Bible. The only reason we are as advanced morally as we are is because of technology, science, and the modern world of secular progressive society. The ancient world knew the Bible very well -- they didn't know anything else. THAT's why they were vicious and cruel. Cause they knew the Bible.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:22 pm |
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 P.V.T. where have you been?Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 12:22 pm by Firefly1958
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P.VanTassell
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 03:57 am |
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I'm going to have to side with Okeegator on this one.
JMD here has clearly seen too many History Channel specials and is stringing the information together to suit his/her own needs.
To say that there is no order in the universe is downright ludacris have you looked out your window? Assuming that you move the tinfoil and take off the bars.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 07:21 pm |
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JMD wrote: Assuming that the universe has a design is unfounded in any logic.
The universe has proven itself to be a random collection of gases and atoms. There is no rhyme or reason to the universe. No reason to the universe? No logic? No pattern? You are so far off with that statement it almost begs laughter. I would like for you to be able to explain to me how scientists have been able to unlock the mysteries of the universe, of life, of the complexities of the human body without using logic and seeing patterns. Those gases and atoms you speak of are based on patterns. And patterns equate to design.
Humans believe that there is a God because we want there to be one. Human beings believe there is a God because they realize that their is order, purpose and design in the universe. They realize that such things are not random quantities created from nothingness
Its like this: close your eyes and picture nothing. You can't. Now, close your eyes and picture a clear infinite horizon. It isn't possible. You mind pics a colour to use. Because our eyes and minds are finite. They are limited by our experiences. No mystery there.
For the nothing analogy you mind choses black and for the clear your mind choses white.
Its the same for this: Close your eyes and picture nothing before something. Its not possible.
It has been proven that something can not come from nothing. Its just a fact. There has to be something before you can have anything.
Isn't that exactly what people who believe there is a God are saying? All of this could not have come from nothing.
A table comes from wood, wood comes from trees, trees come from the dirt, dirt comes from rocks, rocks come from the earth, and here is the rub.....where did earth come from?
My belief is as follows...to me this is how the universe began.
All matter in the universe was condensed into an infine form of itself by gravity. Then after time the friction of this matter built up and the gravity expanded causing gas, atoms, molecules, etc to rocket out into what we know is the universe. Over time gases formed clouds, clouds formed stars, gases formed rocks, rocks formed planets.
Also known as the Big Bang. But where did all of that matter come from? How is gravity so predictable to have done that? Maybe because there is order in the universe?
In earths case the situation was right that life could evolve. And this isn't some divine plan it is coincidence. The same coincidence that choses your hair colour. But that does not disqualify the argument that God created the universe. God could have designed the Big Bang to produce the universe and earth's place in it. Your not proving coincidence. And by the way, hair color is not a coincidence. Its an amazing result of the combined heredity of individuals from genes with have an amazing pattern - the double helix. It is also amazing the patterns that one can use to help predict the hereditary traits of an individual, i.e., Punnett squares. Read up on genetics and you will see it is not coincidence that one has a certain hair color.
At some point in time you never existed...try and imagine that.
You can't. I have and i find it fascinating. Of course, if you break down the elements that make up the human body you find that these elements do not naturally reproduce. Which means that the water and minerals that make up my body were merely in another form before me. But the material still existed. When an animal dies its body returns to the mineral and water states from which it came. It doesn't disappear.
At one point you were a microscopic strand of DNA that is now a fully formed human because you evolved from Chromosomes into a Human. Yes that is the amazing things about life!
Think about this...What is the point of the life of a mosquito? Mosquitos are the same as humans chemically. But there is no mosquito creator, no mosquito heaven. So, what is the point of the life of a mosquito.
And before you say that a mosquito feeds animals and animals feed humans think about this one.
A man is in Africa on a safari, he is killed and eaten by a lion. What was the point of his life? It was to keep that lion alive. But all you have done was to demonstrate that there is purpose in nature.
Just think about it, it is all happenstance and chance. But in trying to prove this point you have demonstrated the order and pattern that exists in the universe.
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JMD
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:17 pm |
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Assuming that the universe has a design is unfounded in any logic.
The universe has proven itself to be a random collection of gases and atoms. There is no rhyme or reason to the universe.
Humans believe that there is a God because we want there to be one.
Its like this: close your eyes and picture nothing. You can't. Now, close your eyes and picture a clear infinite horizon. It isn't possible. You mind pics a colour to use.
For the nothing analogy you mind choses black and for the clear your mind choses white.
Its the same for this: Close your eyes and picture nothing before something. Its not possible.
It has been proven that something can not come from nothing. Its just a fact. There has to be something before you can have anything.
A table comes from wood, wood comes from trees, trees come from the dirt, dirt comes from rocks, rocks come from the earth, and here is the rub.....where did earth come from?
My belief is as follows...to me this is how the universe began.
All matter in the universe was condensed into an infine form of itself by gravity. Then after time the friction of this matter built up and the gravity expanded causing gas, atoms, molecules, etc to rocket out into what we know is the universe. Over time gases formed clouds, clouds formed stars, gases formed rocks, rocks formed planets.
In earths case the situation was right that life could evolve. And this isn't some divine plan it is coincidence. The same coincidence that choses your hair colour.
Try this one. At some point in time you never existed...try and imagine that.
You can't.
At one point you were a microscopic strand of DNA that is now a fully formed human because you evolved from Chromosomes into a Human.
Think about this...What is the point of the life of a mosquito? Mosquitos are the same as humans chemically. But there is no mosquito creator, no mosquito heaven. So, what is the point of the life of a mosquito.
And before you say that a mosquito feeds animals and animals feed humans think about this one.
A man is in Africa on a safari, he is killed and eaten by a lion. What was the point of his life? It was to keep that lion alive.
Just think about it, it is all happenstance and chance.
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pman02
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:11 pm |
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flsr wrote: pman02-----I think we have tried to reason with him. He rejects the idea of an Almighty God, and the Bible which says no man can see God and live. It apparently is not possible for him to see what a certain power has done. I will discuss religion but there comes a time when you have to wipe the dirt from your feet and stop throwing your pearls before swine.
flsr: I believe you just hit the nail on the head...There comes a time when one needs to move on to fertile soil and this is that time...I am always open to study and learn but will not waste precious time on those who are not willing to learn. God can sort them out, my only obligation is to teach the truth and allow His word to do the rest.
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pman02
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 06:02 pm |
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conjeel wrote: pman02:
never read so much bulls**t in my life. The bottom line is: ... you decide which one of God's words you will follow and which ones you don't, just like anyone else. All religious people actually do that, cause the Bible is internally inconsistent -- you HAVE to figure out what you want to follow and what you won't...
that's the botton line... all the rest of your rationalizations are just.... sophistry.
and, sorry , no, I won't be contacting you.
Show proof of the inconsistencies in the Bible, you can't. Not contacting me is again proof of your inability to defend your case...yada yada same old story from those who foolishly allow themselves to blindly exsist without any purpose in life...see ya at the judgment and then you WILL believe where "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..."
The wisdom of God is foolishness to those who do not believe...
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flsr
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 11:40 am |
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conjeel
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JMD
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 06:13 pm
Quote
Reply
Hitler was a Christian plain and simple.
He declared it and he lived by it in his own twisted sense.
As for God not condoning murders...lets be real here.
Moses had hundreds of people killed after he broke the tables and the war right now is accompanied by the go-to "God Bless the Troops" phrase.
Moses is a hero as are wars.
Last edited on Wed May 7th, 200
Hitler was not a Christian, plain and simple or any other way. If you think you are such a beacon of reason, let me remind you that Hitler probably "reasoned" his way into insanity.
Another person on this forum pointed out the fact that the laws of the Old Testament were fulfilled when Jesus was strung up. The Bible is not full of inconsistencies, the people who try to understand it are not understanding it correctly.
As long as you don't believe in God or his word, you would not believe that there is an Ultimate Judge. For instance, I do not like to declare myself a Christian. I believe God makes up His mind who is Christian. I have Christian beliefs, but if I say I am a Christian then people rightfully can start examining my behavior which is not a very good example. Do you think Hitler set a good example of Christianity? Of course not. Jesus must be terribly offended at people putting his name on evil acts, I certainly am. The Bible also states that we would know His followers by their works. Many, many people use the facade of church membership and the label of being a Christian to ward off observance of their evil practices. I prefer to pay attention to the word of God in the Bible rather than the word of those who like to use the label. Conjeel, does this in any way explain my interpretation of inconsistencies? I am afraid when Jesus appears to us again, as is explained in the Bible, you will most likely be standing there trying to make scientific "reason" of it all. I would tend to say that you are an agnostic (one who wants proof) as well as an atheist, but you don't even want proof.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 03:12 am |
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conjeel wrote: Firefly:
So... it was all bad popes? The catholics misinerpreted the Bible.. thats it?
No they didn't misinterpret the Bible they disregarded it and did what they wanted to,to gain power ,you know that ,quit playing dumb . Good night all pick this up tomorrow I want to chime in on Big Bang Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 03:15 am by Firefly1958
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:58 am |
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conjeel wrote: okeegator:
Like I told ya... with religious people it always comes back to the snap-the-fingers creation from some invisible being.. That's your logical conundrum.. you can't escape it. That's why at the end of the day it sounds crazy. I can't escape it and neither can you. That is the funny part of all of this.
So to answer your question: no... there is no supernatural being who "set it in motion.." So what did send in into motion? What was the original cause?
you asked me a question, so I'll ask you.. if there was this all-powerful dude who CREATED THE UNIVERSE, for goodness sake (and think about the scale of the universe)... who created him?? But that's the point, the "all-powerful" dude then is not the creator of the universe and therefore not God (since he was created by something else). God is the original cause, whatever that is. It is beyond our (including you) current understanding. Last edited on Thu May 8th, 2008 03:01 am by okeegator
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:52 am |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
I don't know... and neither do you.
so what?
Obviously you knew where that line of questioning was going (in reference to my previous post about the possiblity of a higher intelligence). But you had to admit that you do not know the origins of the universe because you cannot escape the underlying logic of the question, "What came before that?" or "What was its cause?"
Scientists have drawn a line (the Big Bang) at a point they feel comfortable to admit that they can't answer the next logical question. They assume, or have faith, that scientific explanation will lead them to the previous cause, but the problem is explaining the next cause, then the next, and then the next. You can't escape it.
God is that original cause that you painfully admit you "don't know". God is somewhere at the beginning of it all. We just don't know how far back the explanation goes.
But you must wonder in the recesses of your obviously intelligent mind how a universe apparently governed by rationality and logic can be created out of nothing. If the universe has a design, it must have a designer. That is logic plain and simple. Religion in the general sense is the belief/faith that there is a God out there who created it all. Belief in God is not irrational .
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:35 am |
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Firefly:
So... it was all bad popes? The catholics misinerpreted the Bible.. thats it?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:33 am |
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okeegator:
Like I told ya... with religious people it always comes back to the snap-the-fingers creation from some invisible being.. That's your logical conundrum.. you can't escape it. That's why at the end of the day it sounds crazy.
So to answer your question: no... there is no supernatural being who "set it in motion.."
you asked me a question, so I'll ask you.. if there was this all-powerful dude who CREATED THE UNIVERSE, for goodness sake (and think about the scale of the universe)... who created him??
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:19 am |
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conjeel wrote: Firefly:
Its about your long essay response to my discussion about the history of Church-sponsored torture...
As I read your essay, you seem to be saying the reason Christians tortured people for so many years is because the people didn't have Bibles... or that the Catholic church misinterpreted the Bible. Is that really what your essay is trying to say?
Cause I have to tell you... the Catholic church interpreted the Bible perfectly. Heretics must be tortured and killed. The Bible prescribes that over and over again. Its quite clear. The Catholic church always felt it was doing what God asked it to do.
You spend a lot of words trying to say that's not the case. But its very difficult. Since that's what the Bible says... So I praise you for trying. Cause in debate class, they'll tell you that you have .... a logical conundrum.
its very difficult to defend nonsense. Which is why preachers talk so much.
Short and sweet for 1000 years the popes had been training the world to be in subjection to them , if the pope would have allowed the people to have Bibles they would have known better.It was not in the spirit of Christ and the vickers of Christ should have know better,Persecution is the spirit of satan even though carried on in the name of Christ.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:14 am |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
I don't know... and neither do you.
so what?
Isn't it possible then that there is a higher intelligence that set it into motion?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:07 am |
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Okeegator:
I don't know... and neither do you.
so what?
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:57 am |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
Your post: "Yes, I am familiar with the Big Bang. So what came before the Big Bang? The matter that scattered throughout the universe to form the different galaxies and solar systems had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from?"
My answer:
From an invisible guy with a beard, sitting in a chair, floating in the sky, who snapped his fingers.
It sounds flip, but I mean really, you're trying to imply that, aren't you?
No, that's what you want me to imply. But you can't seem to answer the question: Where did it come from?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:54 am |
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Okeegator:
Your post: "Yes, I am familiar with the Big Bang. So what came before the Big Bang? The matter that scattered throughout the universe to form the different galaxies and solar systems had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from?"
My answer:
From an invisible guy with a beard, sitting in a chair, floating in the sky, who snapped his fingers.
It sounds flip, but I mean really, you're trying to imply that, aren't you?
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:53 am |
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" science and engineering has some credibility... otherwise we wouldn't be dialoguing here in space.... sending electrons through the air... "
Isn't it amazing that all of that science is based upon the logic and reason of mathematics? That math can be used to explain the universe? That math is used by scientists to come up with theories and to conjecture about our origins? Its almost like it was there all along for us to discover the complexities of the universe. Or maybe all of that order arose from nothing?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:51 am |
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| From an invisible guy who snapped his fingers.
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:49 am |
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Okeegator:
YOur post: "You said that the Maserati was built incrementally, that it did not just appear from a snap of a finger. But in order to be built incrementally it required the hands of one outside itself, and one could say the same for the universe. It developed with the guidance and direction of another outside itself. The universe did not build itself incrementally"
Wow... well, cause you say it, it must be true... God built the Maserati.
And, yes, the universe evolved incrementally.. That's exactly what I said.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:48 am |
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conjeel wrote: The Big Bang.
Read Scientific American.
And... to anticpate your reply... don't forget... science and engineering has some credibility... otherwise we wouldn't be dialoguing here in space.... sending electrons through the air...
Yes, I am familiar with the Big Bang. So what came before the Big Bang? The matter that scattered throughout the universe to form the different galaxies and solar systems had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:41 am |
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| JUst to clarify.. previous post was meant for Okeegator.
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:40 am |
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The Big Bang.
Read Scientific American.
And... to anticpate your reply... don't forget... science and engineering has some credibility... otherwise we wouldn't be dialoguing here in space.... sending electrons through the air...
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:33 am |
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Firefly:
Its about your long essay response to my discussion about the history of Church-sponsored torture...
As I read your essay, you seem to be saying the reason Christians tortured people for so many years is because the people didn't have Bibles... or that the Catholic church misinterpreted the Bible. Is that really what your essay is trying to say?
Cause I have to tell you... the Catholic church interpreted the Bible perfectly. Heretics must be tortured and killed. The Bible prescribes that over and over again. Its quite clear. The Catholic church always felt it was doing what God asked it to do.
You spend a lot of words trying to say that's not the case. But its very difficult. Since that's what the Bible says... So I praise you for trying. Cause in debate class, they'll tell you that you have .... a logical conundrum.
its very difficult to defend nonsense. Which is why preachers talk so much.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:27 am |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
But hey man, you brought some of this on yourself. Your post:
"well I guess he/she would say a supernova did it, or maybe the chicken built itself incrementally."
Maybe the chicken built itself incrementally?? I don't even know what that means.
On an earlier post you told me you understood evolution.. then you post the above.
So I don't even know how to respond. It doesn't sound intelligent.
Maybe you're tired... so ok.. re-phrase and I'll answer.
I not only understand evolution, I also accept that it may have been a part of God's plan for creation. I draw the line with man's evolution since I see humankind as a special creation. You still didn't answer my question: How did the universe begin?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:23 am |
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Okeegator:
But hey man, you brought some of this on yourself. Your post:
"well I guess he/she would say a supernova did it, or maybe the chicken built itself incrementally."
Maybe the chicken built itself incrementally?? I don't even know what that means.
On an earlier post you told me you understood evolution.. then you post the above.
So I don't even know how to respond. It doesn't sound intelligent.
Maybe you're tired... so ok.. re-phrase and I'll answer.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:23 am |
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Firefly1958 wrote: conjeel wrote: Firefly: Well, I certainly got you going.. you were sort of forced to engage in some torturous (pun intended) reasoning to defend your position... I sympathise. It requires torturous and twisted arguments to defend those religious arguments... cause if you know anything about logic, your position is really indefensible. But really, and I mean this... nice try. Your little essay is a great illustration of why preachers talk so much -- cause the basic positions are what are called logical conundrums -- you need a lot of words to confuse people into believing that 2 + 2 =5
I know your confused what is about my so called essay thats is causing you confusion?
It was hardly torturous reasoning its facts.No need for sympathy I don't require it .You said my illustration is the reason preachers talk so much Im not a preacher and and have never heard a preacher say what I said since I havent been to church in 30 years .Explain
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:14 am |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
Your reply: Religious folks like myself would say God created one of the two first and as for conjeel..... well I guess he/she would say a supernova did it, or maybe the chicken built itself incrementally.
On an earlier post, you asked me to not be so dismissive... which made you sound intelligent... then you post something like the above, which makes you sound like a moron. So which one is it?
Wow, here we go! Real nice stooping so low in the personal attacks.
But answer my question. How did it all begin? Don't be dismissive, don't be evasive with the personal attacks. It serves no purpose.
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okeegator
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:10 am |
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conjeel wrote: okeegator:
Your reply: "...And who built the Maserati incrementally? It didn't build itself..."
Huh ?? What ??? Mankind built the Maserati incrementally.. I dont understand your question.
You said that the Maserati was built incrementally, that it did not just appear from a snap of a finger. But in order to be built incrementally it required the hands of one outside itself, and one could say the same for the universe. It developed with the guidance and direction of another outside itself. The universe did not build itself incrementally
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:09 am |
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conjeel wrote: Firefly: Well, I certainly got you going.. you were sort of forced to engage in some torturous (pun intended) reasoning to defend your position... I sympathise. It requires torturous and twisted arguments to defend those religious arguments... cause if you know anything about logic, your position is really indefensible. But really, and I mean this... nice try. Your little essay is a great illustration of why preachers talk so much -- cause the basic positions are what are called logical conundrums -- you need a lot of words to confuse people into believing that 2 + 2 =5
I know your confused what is about my so called essay thats is causing you confusion?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 01:04 am |
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Okeegator:
Its very complex, but can be explained... the elements were created in supernovas... hydrogen condensed under gravity to form suns.. rocky planets from iron and the elements... hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water... amino acids and proteins from nitrogen, oxygen, carbons, etc.... you can actually create amino acids in the laboratory, you know.
And it goes on from there...
It certainly wasn't some invisible man floating in the sky who snapped his fingers.
And if it was..... who created him??
And your a Physicist too. Folks this is going nowhere.
Firefly:
Yep.. I'm a scientist.. We're the people who gave you everything you have... we're the people who gave you the ability to communicate on the internet. We're the people who gave you cell phones and cars and airplanes and... everything...
We're GOD !!!! HAHAHAHAH
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:51 am |
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Okeegator:
Your reply: Religious folks like myself would say God created one of the two first and as for conjeel..... well I guess he/she would say a supernova did it, or maybe the chicken built itself incrementally.
On an earlier post, you asked me to not be so dismissive... which made you sound intelligent... then you post something like the above, which makes you sound like a moron. So which one is it?
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:48 am |
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okeegator:
Your reply: "...And who built the Maserati incrementally? It didn't build itself..."
Huh ?? What ??? Mankind built the Maserati incrementally.. I dont understand your question.
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:44 am |
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| Firefly: Well, I certainly got you going.. you were sort of forced to engage in some torturous (pun intended) reasoning to defend your position... I sympathise. It requires torturous and twisted arguments to defend those religious arguments... cause if you know anything about logic, your position is really indefensible. But really, and I mean this... nice try. Your little essay is a great illustration of why preachers talk so much -- cause the basic positions are what are called logical conundrums -- you need a lot of words to confuse people into believing that 2 + 2 =5
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conjeel
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Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:31 am |
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Okeegator: Well there you have.... religious types like yourself always come back to the snap-the-fingers creation theory... you can't avoid it.
That's why you ultimately sound ridiculous. Cause you can't avoid at the end of the day, relying on an invisible dude in the sky "creating" supernovas.
Lazy thinking. and very un-satisfying, cause it doesn't explain anything.
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Firefly1958
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:50 pm |
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conjeel wrote: Okeegator:
Its very complex, but can be explained... the elements were created in supernovas... hydrogen condensed under gravity to form suns.. rocky planets from iron and the elements... hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water... amino acids and proteins from nitrogen, oxygen, carbons, etc.... you can actually create amino acids in the laboratory, you know.
And it goes on from there...
It certainly wasn't some invisible man floating in the sky who snapped his fingers.
And if it was..... who created him??
And your a Physicist too. Folks this is going nowhere.Last edited on Wed May 7th, 2008 11:53 pm by Firefly1958
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okeegator
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:35 pm |
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| Religious folks like myself would say God created one of the two first and as for conjeel..... well I guess he/she would say a supernova did it, or maybe the chicken built itself incrementally. Last edited on Wed May 7th, 2008 11:36 pm by okeegator
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F Y I
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 11:27 pm |
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It's a very simple concept.
Which came first,
THE CHICKEN
of
THE EGG
answer that, an you will have your answer for religion.
labelleblog@hotmail.com
Semper Fidelis
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