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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 08:14 pm |
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Here is another link that quotes McCain as he supports the Military Commissions Act of 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 08:08 pm |
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okeegator wrote: VoiceReason wrote: MSF wrote: Bilgerat wrote:
Can you please show me where John McCain voted to torture prisoners?
Yes, Bush signed a torture bill see below link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15archive/&entry_id=9952
H.R. 2082 sought to overturn the bill, and McCain voted Nay on the overturning see the link below:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00022
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Bilgerat
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 08:06 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: So very hostile, but amuzing nonetheless.
It's spelled amusing (for those in Rio Linda)
Gee, I think that's what it reads.
Now that you've corrected it  Look at the time my edit took place and the time you responded. I didn't edit after you posted but before.
So, as I said you corrected it
It's ok to admit it, you made an error and corrected, say it with me
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 08:03 pm |
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Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: So very hostile, but amuzing nonetheless.
It's spelled amusing (for those in Rio Linda)
Gee, I think that's what it reads.
Now that you've corrected it Look at the time my edit took place and the time you responded. I didn't edit after you posted but before.
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Bilgerat
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 07:58 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: So very hostile, but amuzing nonetheless.
It's spelled amusing (for those in Rio Linda)
Gee, I think that's what it reads.
Now that you've corrected it
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 07:52 pm |
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Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: So very hostile, but amuzing nonetheless.
It's spelled amusing (for those in Rio Linda)
Gee, I think that's what it reads.
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okeegator
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 07:31 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: MSF wrote: Bilgerat wrote:
SPIN IT BABY!
Bilgerat, you don't know the rules of VoiceReason's game:
When VoiceReason lies and blatantly misrepresents facts about McCain, it's "touching the nerves" of Republicans.
When Republicans lie and blatantly misrepresent facts about Obama, it's racism and prejudice.
See how the exact same action has two totally different outcomes, depending on whether or not Voice Reason was the one that did it?
Gee, I'm sorry. I can see I've hurt your feelings. You obviously want this man as our president. A man who voted to torture prisioners, support the Patriot Act, and continue this war that was founded on a lie. The facts speak for themselves.
Can you please show me where John McCain voted to torture prisoners?
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MSF
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 06:32 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote:
Gee, I'm sorry. I can see I've hurt your feelings. You obviously want this man as our president. A man who voted to torture prisioners, support the Patriot Act, and continue this war that was founded on a lie. The facts speak for themselves.
If the facts speak for themselves, why bother lying and misrepresenting statements?
Unless you're as biased as you claim everybody else to be.
And it takes a far better person than you to hurt my feelings, sweetheart. I love the fact that I've never once stated who I am backing or why, nor have I bashed either candidate, yet you are self-important enough to (mistakenly) think you know something about me. I don't need a second account to deal with your foolishness.
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Bilgerat
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 06:25 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: So very hostile, but amuzing nonetheless.
It's spelled amusing (for those in Rio Linda)
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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| So very hostile, but amusing nonetheless. Last edited on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 06:24 pm by VoiceReason
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Bilgerat
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 06:12 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: He's preparing us for WWIII. He can't wait to get into Iran. Of course he does, that's what your Masters at Moveon.org say anyway "I do not believe the draft is even practicable or desirable," McCain said. Yet another contridiction. McCain contridicts himself in the same interview. That's what happens when you get old and foggy headed. In the short time I've known you I am now able to say, you can't read, can you?
All of the above tells me that your crystal ball seems "infected".
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: I guess if we're going to be in Iraq for 100 years, we'll need more warm bodies for the front lines.
Funny how we're protecting our nation by putting all of our soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now maybe Iran. Any fool knows we're pretty helpless back here at home with all of our soldiers gone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080625/pl_nm/usa_politics_mccain_draft_dc
Very Nice, excellent tripe
From the link you posted
McCain says only World War III would justify draft He's preparing us for WWIII. He can't wait to get into Iran.
That's a difference, wouldn't you say ?
And later;
McCain, a Vietnam veteran, said the draft during that conflict weighed most heavily on lower-income Americans, and that this should not be repeated.
"I do not believe the draft is even practicable or desirable," McCain said. Yet another contridiction. McCain contridicts himself in the same interview. That's what happens when you get old and foggy headed.
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Bilgerat
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:58 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: MSF wrote: Bilgerat wrote:
SPIN IT BABY!
Bilgerat, you don't know the rules of VoiceReason's game:
When VoiceReason lies and blatantly misrepresents facts about McCain, it's "touching the nerves" of Republicans.
When Republicans lie and blatantly misrepresent facts about Obama, it's racism and prejudice.
See how the exact same action has two totally different outcomes, depending on whether or not Voice Reason was the one that did it?
Gee, I'm sorry. I can see I've hurt your feelings. You obviously want this man as our president. A man who voted to torture prisioners, support the Patriot Act, and continue this war that was founded on a lie. The facts speak for themselves.
Hit a nerve, huh ?
SPIN IT BABY
Last edited on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:59 pm by Bilgerat
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:55 pm |
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MSF wrote: Bilgerat wrote:
SPIN IT BABY!
Bilgerat, you don't know the rules of VoiceReason's game:
When VoiceReason lies and blatantly misrepresents facts about McCain, it's "touching the nerves" of Republicans.
When Republicans lie and blatantly misrepresent facts about Obama, it's racism and prejudice.
See how the exact same action has two totally different outcomes, depending on whether or not Voice Reason was the one that did it?
Gee, I'm sorry. I can see I've hurt your feelings. You obviously want this man as our president. A man who voted to torture prisioners, support the Patriot Act, and continue this war that was founded on a lie. The facts speak for themselves.
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MSF
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:49 pm |
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Bilgerat wrote:
SPIN IT BABY!
Bilgerat, you don't know the rules of VoiceReason's game:
When VoiceReason lies and blatantly misrepresents facts about McCain, it's "touching the nerves" of Republicans.
When Republicans lie and blatantly misrepresent facts about Obama, it's racism and prejudice.
See how the exact same action has two totally different outcomes, depending on whether or not Voice Reason was the one that did it?
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Bilgerat
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:45 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: McCain signs "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran" song during an interview. I guess that's another reason we'll need to institute the draft.
Where do you suppose we'll get the money to do that? I guess we'll have to borrow more money from China. Gee, I sure hope they don't call in the IOU. What do you suppose will happen to the economy then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg&feature=related
SPIN IT BABY! Hit a nerve, huh?
Not in the least
I enjoy the antics from Moveon.org
So ? c'mon
SPIN IT BABY !
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:41 pm |
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Bilgerat wrote: VoiceReason wrote: McCain signs "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran" song during an interview. I guess that's another reason we'll need to institute the draft.
Where do you suppose we'll get the money to do that? I guess we'll have to borrow more money from China. Gee, I sure hope they don't call in the IOU. What do you suppose will happen to the economy then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg&feature=related
SPIN IT BABY! Hit a nerve, huh?
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Mitch2
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 04:52 pm |
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OkeeNarnie wrote: It was my understanding that all the guys and gals once out of basic get served on Post. The enlisted club/nco club? I know they were in Europe a life time ago. It didn't matter what the drinking age was. I was never asked on post for my age.
Really? I only know of a few stories my son shared with me, and I use the term "shared" loosely.
He has had several friends of his get kicked out of the Coast Guard for drinking. I don't know of the specifics, I know some had been arrested by local officials for underage drinking. They usually turn them over to the captain of the ship- at least in Key West they do. I assume it depends on the circumstances.
Maybe it makes a difference what service you are in? Kinda hard to drink when your on a ship for 2 months at a time. But they do get there port calls .
I know in reading the investigation of the two divers that died off of Artic *(?) that it was frowned upon that the captain allowed the crew to have two beers each. Those that were not on duty that is. Some on the shore ( they were playing football on the ice) when they noticed a serious emergency was happening ran over to help the ones handling the lines to the divers, and it was questioned if them having the two beers interfered with the tragedies that happened.
After reading the investigation report, it was apparent that those that ran over to help were not the ones assigned to the dive team, but the captain was still relieved of his command for other serious errors (as he should have been)
My point is, it was my impression that underage drinking is a serious issue within the service, and those that are in charge of the youths that are under the age of 21 struggle with keeping them in line. I don't know how it is on base, when I worked for customs and went to the officers club, I did not see ID being asked for, but most of those there were older anyways.
* I had previously entered that the accident happened off of Alaska, but was incorrect, it was in the Artic.
Last edited on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 05:09 pm by Mitch2
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OkeeNarnie
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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| It was my understanding that all the guys and gals once out of basic get served on Post. The enlisted club/nco club? I know they were in Europe a life time ago. It didn't matter what the drinking age was. I was never asked on post for my age.
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Mitch2
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 04:24 pm |
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OkeeNarnie wrote: As far as the draft goes...It is my opinion that we should have a draft.
If every one of the youth of this country went into the service and served this country they would have more love and respect for her. Ask a US Veteran.
If every one of the youth went and served they would come out with an education and training (and have the means to continue that education). They could make something of their lives. Ask a US Veteran.
If every one of the youth went and served they would not be holding out their hands for their parents, the community or society in general to support them. As if the world owes them. They might be less pilferage and stealing to get what they want...they would now have the earnest values missing in many young Americans today.
ALL 18 year olds should have to register and either join on their own or be drafted. This should include all who were promiscuous and had kids before age 18. (the minor children would have to be taken care of by the grandparents, at least until the parents were out of basic training, school and assigned where they can have the kids with them)
It should also include all resident alien youth who are living here in the USA.
It should also include any illegal aliens who are 18 to 36. They should have to go serve at least a full tour. What is that now 3 years, minimum?
The general attitude of the youth was far different before they canceled the draft, and given the way the world is today...I think we need it back.
Increasing our military numbers is only one reason to maintain the draft. there are other reasons of importance.
I know, before someone goes and jumps all over this, everyone has an opinion and they don't all agree. This is just mine.
I am aware that anyone going into the service today faces the probability of going where there is action. Just like it was from the 40's to the 70's.
I have 3 grandsons and they would have to go as well. I will be frightened but proud of them just as families were before.
Just My Two Cents
OkeeNarnie
It's sure hard to argue with this logic. I have often thought the same thing. Isreal sure seems to have the right idea with there youth.
But in a sense, are we not forcing the Armed Forces to "fix" or "babysit" what we as parents might have failed at? As it is, they have to legally babysit those in the forces who are between the ages of 18-21 to make sure they are not drinking. Throw in a couple of wackos in each group and a captain has his hands full.
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OkeeNarnie
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 04:09 pm |
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As far as the draft goes...It is my opinion that we should have a draft.
If every one of the youth of this country went into the service and served this country they would have more love and respect for her. Ask a US Veteran.
If every one of the youth went and served they would come out with an education and training (and have the means to continue that education). They could make something of their lives. Ask a US Veteran.
If every one of the youth went and served they would not be holding out their hands for their parents, the community or society in general to support them. As if the world owes them. They might be less pilferage and stealing to get what they want...they would now have the earnest values missing in many young Americans today.
ALL 18 year olds should have to register and either join on their own or be drafted. This should include all who were promiscuous and had kids before age 18. (the minor children would have to be taken care of by the grandparents, at least until the parents were out of basic training, school and assigned where they can have the kids with them)
It should also include all resident alien youth who are living here in the USA.
It should also include any illegal aliens who are 18 to 36. They should have to go serve at least a full tour. What is that now 3 years, minimum?
The general attitude of the youth was far different before they canceled the draft, and given the way the world is today...I think we need it back.
Increasing our military numbers is only one reason to maintain the draft. there are other reasons of importance.
I know, before someone goes and jumps all over this, everyone has an opinion and they don't all agree. This is just mine.
I am aware that anyone going into the service today faces the probability of going where there is action. Just like it was from the 40's to the 70's.
I have 3 grandsons and they would have to go as well. I will be frightened but proud of them just as families were before.
Just My Two Cents
OkeeNarnie
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Bilgerat
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: McCain signs "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran" song during an interview. I guess that's another reason we'll need to institute the draft.
Where do you suppose we'll get the money to do that? I guess we'll have to borrow more money from China. Gee, I sure hope they don't call in the IOU. What do you suppose will happen to the economy then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg&feature=related
SPIN IT BABY!
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 03:43 pm |
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McCain signs "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran" song during an interview. I guess that's another reason we'll need to institute the draft.
Where do you suppose we'll get the money to do that? I guess we'll have to borrow more money from China. Gee, I sure hope they don't call in the IOU. What do you suppose will happen to the economy then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg&feature=related
Last edited on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 03:45 pm by VoiceReason
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Mitch2
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 03:23 pm |
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We have and still are in other country's for 60+ years. Americans pay little attention to it because we don't have the death toll that we have in Iraq.
Is a draft possible? I think yes, if another terrorist strike were to happen on American soil. Right now people are all up in arms over the economy.
We are a country with a very short memory and a total lack of understanding of what previous wars have cost us. We are so busy trying to fix this mess in Iraq that we have depleted our recourses of American troupes.
The recruiters our out in full force, flashing money and dreams to our youth. Certain armed forces have dropped many requirements for entry into the military....just to get there numbers up. I can not recall where I read an article on the high rate of medical discharges and "other" discharges before boot camp even ends, but the article said these numbers were higher than ever before.
The United States has so many "back doors" for entry that it's a joke something has not happened yet. From what little I know, American security is lacking, and our enemy's our just waiting for that "perfect" moment. I am thinking more of our Nuclear Plants than an attack as 9/11.
I am looking for a President that can balance our need for security and to put our economy back on track and to stabilize our health industry. So far, I am not impressed with either of our candidates and hope in the near future they can define to the American people there vision of how to correct all of this.
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Bilgerat
Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 02:44 pm |
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VoiceReason wrote: I guess if we're going to be in Iraq for 100 years, we'll need more warm bodies for the front lines.
Funny how we're protecting our nation by putting all of our soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now maybe Iran. Any fool knows we're pretty helpless back here at home with all of our soldiers gone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080625/pl_nm/usa_politics_mccain_draft_dc
Very Nice, excellent tripe
From the link you posted
McCain says only World War III would justify draft
That's a difference, wouldn't you say ?
And later;
McCain, a Vietnam veteran, said the draft during that conflict weighed most heavily on lower-income Americans, and that this should not be repeated.
"I do not believe the draft is even practicable or desirable," McCain said.
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VoiceReason
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Posted: Sun Jun 29th, 2008 02:26 pm |
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I guess if we're going to be in Iraq for 100 years, we'll need more warm bodies for the front lines.
Funny how we're protecting our nation by putting all of our soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now maybe Iran. Any fool knows we're pretty helpless back here at home with all of our soldiers gone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080625/pl_nm/usa_politics_mccain_draft_dc
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