flsr wrote:
Sorry here,too. Boy we are a sorry bunch aren't we?
Looks like Pops posted it. Now Pops, my friend, I sure hope you don't want to jump all over me. I believe when we post articles some times we agree with them 100%, sometimes only a little, and sometimes just to put some some ideas out there for everyone to ponder and maybe comment on.
Sorry flsr for the confusion. I believe in God, I just posted that because I thought it was interesting to read. Seems like scientists are leaning to the big bang theory and evolution, rather than creationisim. It was only food for thought. The Einstein thing was also interesting, I certianly didn't mean to say everyone should follow his beliefs.
okeegator wrote: flsr wrote: Firefly1958 wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible,
Flsr are you talking to me ?..Firefly
Absolutely not, Firefly. I had been reading from the link that, (I believe) Okeegater provided and when I said "how can you", I meant anyone, but more specifically the one who wrote that piece. It looks like an interesting bunch of stuff. So much to read and too little time...........especially if you have chores and you're so darn slow doing them.
Sorry, flsr, it wasn't me.
Sorry here,too. Boy we are a sorry bunch aren't we?
Looks like Pops posted it. Now Pops, my friend, I sure hope you don't want to jump all over me. I believe when we post articles some times we agree with them 100%, sometimes only a little, and sometimes just to put some some ideas out there for everyone to ponder and maybe comment on.
flsr wrote: Firefly1958 wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible,
Flsr are you talking to me ?..Firefly
Absolutely not, Firefly. I had been reading from the link that, (I believe) Okeegater provided and when I said "how can you", I meant anyone, but more specifically the one who wrote that piece. It looks like an interesting bunch of stuff. So much to read and too little time...........especially if you have chores and you're so darn slow doing them.
Sorry, flsr, it wasn't me.
Firefly1958 wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible,
Flsr are you talking to me ?..Firefly
Absolutely not, Firefly. I had been reading from the link that, (I believe) Okeegater provided and when I said "how can you", I meant anyone, but more specifically the one who wrote that piece. It looks like an interesting bunch of stuff. So much to read and too little time...........especially if you have chores and you're so darn slow doing them.
Firefly1958 wrote: AvaL wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible, of Jesus departing from the tomb, being seen by several witnesses and then ascending into the heavens. Those people thought there was "evidence". How can you make points one way or the other if you refuse to believe historical accounts from witnesses, that were passed down through history?
That is hearsay - Not evidence. Also the Bible was written how many years after this? You think the story was still factual after all that time? Though some say that the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Christ died, the truth is that it was written before the close of the first century by those who either knew Christ personally, had encountered him, or were under the direction of those who were His disciples http://www.carm.org/christianity/bible/wasnt-new-testament-written-hundreds-years-after-christ
Yes, but I didn't say hundreds of years. It was several decades before the first books were written - and over time the facts and stories started to vary, you can see that clear as day in the Bible. There is a very large chance that these stories were influenced by the reputation they received over those decades.
AvaL wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible, of Jesus departing from the tomb, being seen by several witnesses and then ascending into the heavens. Those people thought there was "evidence". How can you make points one way or the other if you refuse to believe historical accounts from witnesses, that were passed down through history?
That is hearsay - Not evidence. Also the Bible was written how many years after this? You think the story was still factual after all that time? Though some say that the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Christ died, the truth is that it was written before the close of the first century by those who either knew Christ personally, had encountered him, or were under the direction of those who were His disciples http://www.carm.org/christianity/bible/wasnt-new-testament-written-hundreds-years-after-christ
Last edited on Wed Feb 18th, 2009 05:55 pm by Firefly1958
flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible, of Jesus departing from the tomb, being seen by several witnesses and then ascending into the heavens. Those people thought there was "evidence". How can you make points one way or the other if you refuse to believe historical accounts from witnesses, that were passed down through history?
That is hearsay - Not evidence. Also the Bible was written how many years after this? You think the story was still factual after all that time?
flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible, of Jesus departing from the tomb, being seen by several witnesses and then ascending into the heavens. Those people thought there was "evidence". How can you make points one way or the other if you refuse to believe historical accounts from witnesses, that were passed down through history?
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Since there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever returned from an existence after death, it was easy and natural to construct the belief of a more pleasant life after the short and miserable existence that humans had to endure. The concept of a wondrous life after death, a heaven, became very popular.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Evidently, the writer of this piece on the life after death issue, does not believe the historical account from the Bible, of Jesus departing from the tomb, being seen by several witnesses and then ascending into the heavens. Those people thought there was "evidence". How can you make points one way or the other if you refuse to believe historical accounts from witnesses, that were passed down through history?
Did the first modern humans in Europe share a bed with nearby Neanderthals? Almost certainly not, according to a new analysis of 28,000 year old Cro-Magnon DNA.
The Cro-Magnons were the first modern Homo sapiens in Europe, living there between 45,000 and 10,000 years ago. Their DNA sequences match those of today's Europeans, says Guido Barbujani, an evolutionary anthropologist at the University of Ferrera, Italy, suggesting that "Neanderthal hybridisation" did not occur.
His team published similar findings in 2003, but that study left open the possibility that the Cro-Magnon DNA had been contaminated by the researchers' own genes.
Now, Barbujani's team has sequenced a section of DNA from everyone who handled the sample and found no trace of contamination.
"We knew we had a full and complete list of people who had potentially contaminated the specimen," he says. "In this case we are really sure that that sequence does not represent contamination."
Tom Gilbert, an expert on ancient DNA at the University of Copenhagen, Denmark, says the new tests convinced him of the Cro-Magnon DNA authenticity. "I was one of the guys who criticised it heavily the first time," he says.
Prehistoric family tree
The reanalysed Cro-Magnon DNA, which comes from maternally-inheritedmitochondria, casts further doubt on the kinship between Neanderthals and humans, he says. However, the paucity of Cro-Magnon DNA samples - just a handful exist, with Barbujani's coming from a cave in southern Italy - still leaves the door ajar.
Barbujani agrees that mitochondrial DNA alone can't rule out the possibility that Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals bred, but nearly every ancient human skeleton recovered in Europe belongs to either Cro-Magnons or Neanderthals, not the hybrids that would be expected from interbreeding.
The only potential intermediate is a child's skull found in Portugal and dated to 24,500 years ago - after Neanderthals went extinct. However, other researchers have questioned the skeleton, suggesting it belonged to a "chunky" human child.
okeegator wrote: Firefly1958 wrote: Are you talking about Neanderthal or Cro Magnons? No DNA link between the two,two different species so interbreeding is not possible Neanderthal became extinct about 30,000 years ago Cro magnons began about 40,000 years ago .
How would they obtain DNA from both? Do scientists have tissue samples from both? Just curious.
Yes I saw a documentary on this and just read it again Ill try to find the link .again
Firefly1958 wrote: Are you talking about Neanderthal or Cro Magnons? No DNA link between the two,two different species so interbreeding is not possible Neanderthal became extinct about 30,000 years ago Cro magnons began about 40,000 years ago .
How would they obtain DNA from both? Do scientists have tissue samples from both? Just curious.
Forget that I asked. Found info after some googling.
Last edited on Wed Feb 18th, 2009 04:18 pm by okeegator
pops wrote: okeegator wrote: They did. Some may have called him the Great Spirit and maybe some by another name, but all recognized that the universe was created by something. It didn't just happen by accident.
What did early cave men call him? They had no language.Are you talking about Neanderthal or Cro Magnons? No DNA link between the two,two different species so interbreeding is not possible Neanderthal became extinct about 30,000 years ago Cro magnons began about 40,000 years ago .
It is interesting to note that the degree of involvement with the supernatural, including religion, is directly proportional to the degree of factual knowledge available to a person. The bell curve, depicting the graphic display of variances in intelligence within a population, places 80% of the U. S. population in the I.Q. range from 85 to 115.
It is interesting to note that 90 % of the U. S. population is also involved in religions or other irrational belief systems. The September 1999 issue of the prestigious Scientific American magazine published a repeat-survey, confirming previous surveys:
Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor these beliefs in religion and merely 10% of notable scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife. Contrary to the notion fostered by so-called creation-scientists, Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god.
Apparently, I should do whatever Einstein does.
A bit sensitive now aren't we, Gator? I agree with pops that that was a stretch.
Sensitive? I didn't realize my feelings had been hurt. Thanks again for telling me what to do or how to think. You seem to have a knack for it.Anytime. I have a knack for a lot of things. You should know...
I have absolutely no idea what you mean. But let's get back to this.....
A created universe vs. accident (?)
God vs. No God(s)
thoughts?
Last edited on Wed Feb 18th, 2009 04:38 am by okeegator
Apparently, I should do whatever Einstein does.
A bit sensitive now aren't we, Gator? I agree with pops that that was a stretch.
Sensitive? I didn't realize my feelings had been hurt. Thanks again for telling me what to do or how to think. You seem to have a knack for it.Anytime. I have a knack for a lot of things. You should know...
pops wrote: Appearently you still don't get it. It was only a statement. Go study for your FCAT.
So what is your take pops? You're a great cutter/paster of articles you find. Care to share?
Apparently, I should do whatever Einstein does.
A bit sensitive now aren't we, Gator? I agree with pops that that was a stretch.
Sensitive? I didn't realize my feelings had been hurt. Thanks again for telling me what to do or how to think. You seem to have a knack for it.
pops wrote: okeegator wrote: They did. Some may have called him the Great Spirit and maybe some by another name, but all recognized that the universe was created by something. It didn't just happen by accident.
What did early cave men call him? They had no language. A series of grunts I would imagine.
It is interesting to note that the degree of involvement with the supernatural, including religion, is directly proportional to the degree of factual knowledge available to a person. The bell curve, depicting the graphic display of variances in intelligence within a population, places 80% of the U. S. population in the I.Q. range from 85 to 115.
It is interesting to note that 90 % of the U. S. population is also involved in religions or other irrational belief systems. The September 1999 issue of the prestigious Scientific American magazine published a repeat-survey, confirming previous surveys:
Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor these beliefs in religion and merely 10% of notable scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife. Contrary to the notion fostered by so-called creation-scientists, Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god.
okeegator wrote: They did. Some may have called him the Great Spirit and maybe some by another name, but all recognized that the universe was created by something. It didn't just happen by accident.
What did early cave men call him? They had no language.
It is interesting to note that the degree of involvement with the supernatural, including religion, is directly proportional to the degree of factual knowledge available to a person. The bell curve, depicting the graphic display of variances in intelligence within a population, places 80% of the U. S. population in the I.Q. range from 85 to 115.
It is interesting to note that 90 % of the U. S. population is also involved in religions or other irrational belief systems. The September 1999 issue of the prestigious Scientific American magazine published a repeat-survey, confirming previous surveys:
Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor these beliefs in religion and merely 10% of notable scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife. Contrary to the notion fostered by so-called creation-scientists, Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god.
4string wrote: Religion is a Myth. All religions are Myths. Just one way for Man to have power over another men. No one has proof of the existence of any Gods.
The one God idea only came about around 2000BC What took so long? Since every human on earth came from Adam,and Eve( and later Noha) don't you think every one on the planet would of heard of this one God? The Americas never heard of him till the late 1600s Where was he all these millions of years before 2000BC? Why didn't the whole world know of him from the beginning of time?They did. Some may have called him the Great Spirit and maybe some by another name, but all recognized that the universe was created by something. It didn't just happen by accident.
It was a good idea One God made it much simpler. Then the Christians made it even better " Forgiveness for Sins" You can do just about any thing you want just say your sorry at the end of the day, or if you get the chance squeeze it in before you die. I don't know all the Islamic selling points other than the 72 virgins thing, which dose sound good at first, but think about it 72 ?????? no way I'd want to go through eternity with 72 Honey Do List.
Religion is a Myth. All religions are Myths. Just one way for Man to have power over another men. No one has proof of the existence of any Gods.
The one God idea only came about around 2000BC What took so long? Since every human on earth came from Adam,and Eve( and later Noha) don't you think every one on the planet would of heard of this one God? The Americas never heard of him till the late 1600s Where was he all these millions of years before 2000BC? Why didn't the whole world know of him from the beginning of time?
It was a good idea One God made it much simpler. Then the Christians made it even better " Forgiveness for Sins" You can do just about any thing you want just say your sorry at the end of the day, or if you get the chance squeeze it in before you die. I don't know all the Islamic selling points other than the 72 virgins thing, which dose sound good at first, but think about it 72 ?????? no way I'd want to go through eternity with 72 Honey Do List.
newsie wrote: OkeeNarnie wrote: There are many people in the science world who research for the truth concerning the Bible and they have discovered THERE IS TRUTH THERE.
Some examples of truth's science have shared.... and there are many more in the site.
A case in point is the historicity of Jesus. Although many atheists state that Jesus never lived, He is mentioned by many contemporary, non-Christian historians. Look at the evidence.
Flavius Josephus, a first century Jewish historian wrote of Jesus and the Christians:
"so he [Ananus, son of Ananus the high priest] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before him the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others (or some of his companions) and when he had formed an accusation against them, he delivered them to be stoned."
It is often argued Jesus existed. This may be true, but even so, there is no historical evidence he was the son of God.
Recent scientific evidence is adding to the evidence supporting the reliability of biblical chronology from the scriptures. This study demonstrated the reliability of the Biblical record regarding the Egyptian plagues and demise of Jericho.
Drs. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht reported in the prestigious British journal, Nature (14), that the destruction of Jericho was dated to 1580 (+/- 13 years) B.C. (using 14C dating). This date is significant, since several archeologists have insisted that Jericho was destroyed by the Egyptians between 1550 and 1300 B.C. The recent study discredits the Egyptian theory, since the date is much too old.
The bible is a very well preserved document. But just because something it says is true does not make all of it true. There are many cultures that have document or stone carvings like this that say such and such was conquered or destroyed(true) and then go on to attribute it to their God King and his supernatural powers(not true). You can see how the websites reasoning does not follow
What is even more exciting is that scientists, using C dating and tree rings, have found evidence of a volcanic eruption from the Aegean island of Thera, which recently has been dated to 1628 B.C.. This would place the eruption at 45 years prior to the destruction of Jericho, at a time which coincidentally corresponds to the time of the plagues the Lord unleashed upon Egypt. Check out Exodus 10:21-22
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt." So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days.
See above.
The next proof is the Bible's uniqueness and unity. The Bible was written by over 40 authors who came from just about every walk of life conceivable, including fisherman, kings, a butler, priests, and a tax collector. The 66 books of the Bible were written over a 1,500 year span in three languages on three continents with one theme and no contradictions. C.J. Sharp captures this miracle well:
"If a fragment of stone were found in Italy, another in Asia Minor, another in Greece, another in Egypt, and on and on until sixty-six fragments had been found, and if when put together they fitted perfectly together, making a perfect statue of Venus de Milo, there is not an artist or scientist but would arrive immediately at the conclusion that there was originally a sculptor who conceived and carved the statue. The very lines and perfections would probably determine which of the great ancient artists carved the statue. Not only the unity of the Scriptures, but their lines of perfection, suggest One far above any human as the real author.
This is interesting, but again proves nothing. To call this book perfect is based on what? I could say it is very imperfect. Look at Genesis then Psalms and tell me that it is somehow perfect as an objective reader. Were they written without knowledge of the other(unlikely)? Or was the person writing a book in the bible completely knowledgeable about the bible, so wrote his accordingly to coincide with it(likely). If some random writer wanted to write a new Harry Potter book, he could read the past ones and write a new one that follows all the rules of the past books. It might look different (like Genesis v Psalms), but could easily be lumped together with the others. This last part is so entirely subjective it is laughable.
Science doesn't prove the bible is the word of god. It proves that the bible has some accurate historical information in it.
It is obvious you have your own belief system. It is different then mine. that does not make mine wrong or yours right.. we just believe differently. we won't know which is right until we die...
OkeeNarnie wrote: In advance let me say that my grammar will not be perfect here. I am using a keyboard that the shift key is broken on... grandson has my good keyboard on the other computer as he is writing a term paper.
QUESTION FOR YOU...
If you do not believe in God and what his word tells us has happened and what will happen....
What do you believe happens when you die. Where do you go. Or is death the end for you.
Some people do believe that when you die that is the end. Some people believe in heaven because they don't want to believe that when you die it is the end.
In advance let me say that my grammar will not be perfect here. I am using a keyboard that the shift key is broken on... grandson has my good keyboard on the other computer as he is writing a term paper.
QUESTION FOR YOU...
If you do not believe in God and what his word tells us has happened and what will happen....
What do you believe happens when you die. Where do you go. Or is death the end for you.
newsie wrote: I would like to point out that evolution does not go against religion, unless your religious belief is that evolution did not happen. Many modern Christians simply attribute evolution to God's will. It's like if you say dinosaurs are against religion, you could just say "God put the fossils there," as people quite often do say. Evolution is not a belief system, it is an explanation based on science that has much empirical evidence to support it (you can see it happen in organisms with short lifespans and generations) whereas religion is strictly belief with NO proof other than the circular logic of "the bible says God is real and God made the bible therefore God must exist." If significant evidence came up that directly contradicted evolution, we would would come up with a new theory, completely disregarding the old one if necessary. Religion is not open to new evidence or restructuring. Do not confuse the two.
OkeeNarnie wrote: There are many people in the science world who research for the truth concerning the Bible and they have discovered THERE IS TRUTH THERE.
Some examples of truth's science have shared.... and there are many more in the site.
A case in point is the historicity of Jesus. Although many atheists state that Jesus never lived, He is mentioned by many contemporary, non-Christian historians. Look at the evidence.
Flavius Josephus, a first century Jewish historian wrote of Jesus and the Christians:
"so he [Ananus, son of Ananus the high priest] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before him the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others (or some of his companions) and when he had formed an accusation against them, he delivered them to be stoned."
It is often argued Jesus existed. This may be true, but even so, there is no historical evidence he was the son of God.
Recent scientific evidence is adding to the evidence supporting the reliability of biblical chronology from the scriptures. This study demonstrated the reliability of the Biblical record regarding the Egyptian plagues and demise of Jericho.
Drs. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht reported in the prestigious British journal, Nature (14), that the destruction of Jericho was dated to 1580 (+/- 13 years) B.C. (using 14C dating). This date is significant, since several archeologists have insisted that Jericho was destroyed by the Egyptians between 1550 and 1300 B.C. The recent study discredits the Egyptian theory, since the date is much too old.
The bible is a very well preserved document. But just because something it says is true does not make all of it true. There are many cultures that have document or stone carvings like this that say such and such was conquered or destroyed(true) and then go on to attribute it to their God King and his supernatural powers(not true). You can see how the websites reasoning does not follow
What is even more exciting is that scientists, using C dating and tree rings, have found evidence of a volcanic eruption from the Aegean island of Thera, which recently has been dated to 1628 B.C.. This would place the eruption at 45 years prior to the destruction of Jericho, at a time which coincidentally corresponds to the time of the plagues the Lord unleashed upon Egypt. Check out Exodus 10:21-22
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt." So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days.
See above.
The next proof is the Bible's uniqueness and unity. The Bible was written by over 40 authors who came from just about every walk of life conceivable, including fisherman, kings, a butler, priests, and a tax collector. The 66 books of the Bible were written over a 1,500 year span in three languages on three continents with one theme and no contradictions. C.J. Sharp captures this miracle well:
"If a fragment of stone were found in Italy, another in Asia Minor, another in Greece, another in Egypt, and on and on until sixty-six fragments had been found, and if when put together they fitted perfectly together, making a perfect statue of Venus de Milo, there is not an artist or scientist but would arrive immediately at the conclusion that there was originally a sculptor who conceived and carved the statue. The very lines and perfections would probably determine which of the great ancient artists carved the statue. Not only the unity of the Scriptures, but their lines of perfection, suggest One far above any human as the real author.
This is interesting, but again proves nothing. To call this book perfect is based on what? I could say it is very imperfect. Look at Genesis then Psalms and tell me that it is somehow perfect as an objective reader. Were they written without knowledge of the other(unlikely)? Or was the person writing a book in the bible completely knowledgeable about the bible, so wrote his accordingly to coincide with it(likely). If some random writer wanted to write a new Harry Potter book, he could read the past ones and write a new one that follows all the rules of the past books. It might look different (like Genesis v Psalms), but could easily be lumped together with the others. This last part is so entirely subjective it is laughable.
Science doesn't prove the bible is the word of god. It proves that the bible has some accurate historical information in it.
I would like to point out that evolution does not go against religion, unless your religious belief is that evolution did not happen. Many modern Christians simply attribute evolution to God's will. It's like if you say dinosaurs are against religion, you could just say "God put the fossils there," as people quite often do say. Evolution is not a belief system, it is an explanation based on science that has much empirical evidence to support it (you can see it happen in organisms with short lifespans and generations) whereas religion is strictly belief with NO proof other than the circular logic of "the bible says God is real and God made the bible therefore God must exist." If significant evidence came up that directly contradicted evolution, we would would come up with a new theory, completely disregarding the old one if necessary. Religion is not open to new evidence or restructuring. Do not confuse the two.
Some examples of truth's science have shared.... and there are many more in the site.
A case in point is the historicity of Jesus. Although many atheists state that Jesus never lived, He is mentioned by many contemporary, non-Christian historians. Look at the evidence.
Flavius Josephus, a first century Jewish historian wrote of Jesus and the Christians:
"so he [Ananus, son of Ananus the high priest] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before him the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others (or some of his companions) and when he had formed an accusation against them, he delivered them to be stoned."
Recent scientific evidence is adding to the evidence supporting the reliability of biblical chronology from the scriptures. This study demonstrated the reliability of the Biblical record regarding the Egyptian plagues and demise of Jericho.
Drs. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht reported in the prestigious British journal, Nature (14), that the destruction of Jericho was dated to 1580 (+/- 13 years) B.C. (using 14C dating). This date is significant, since several archeologists have insisted that Jericho was destroyed by the Egyptians between 1550 and 1300 B.C. The recent study discredits the Egyptian theory, since the date is much too old.
What is even more exciting is that scientists, using C dating and tree rings, have found evidence of a volcanic eruption from the Aegean island of Thera, which recently has been dated to 1628 B.C.. This would place the eruption at 45 years prior to the destruction of Jericho, at a time which coincidentally corresponds to the time of the plagues the Lord unleashed upon Egypt. Check out Exodus 10:21-22
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt." So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days.
The next proof is the Bible's uniqueness and unity. The Bible was written by over 40 authors who came from just about every walk of life conceivable, including fisherman, kings, a butler, priests, and a tax collector. The 66 books of the Bible were written over a 1,500 year span in three languages on three continents with one theme and no contradictions. C.J. Sharp captures this miracle well:
"If a fragment of stone were found in Italy, another in Asia Minor, another in Greece, another in Egypt, and on and on until sixty-six fragments had been found, and if when put together they fitted perfectly together, making a perfect statue of Venus de Milo, there is not an artist or scientist but would arrive immediately at the conclusion that there was originally a sculptor who conceived and carved the statue. The very lines and perfections would probably determine which of the great ancient artists carved the statue. Not only the unity of the Scriptures, but their lines of perfection, suggest One far above any human as the real author.
OkeeNarnie wrote: Did we evolve from something on all 4's or is the Bible and Gods word the truth.... The only way to find the real answer is to die. But then your gone and can't stand in front of the TV camera or the reporter and give the interview to substantiate the facts.
One thing I feel is of importance is dealing with life and death. I have lost some very important people to me in my life. My grandparents, aunts, my dad and one of my children...my only son. IF I DIDN'T BELIEVE IN GOD... that would mean that life just ends and thats all there is. Like squishing an ant. Gods word tells me that we will live again, in his world for eternity, along with those who have passed already. Much easier to handle then... squish, dead and gone.
Also you can't just pick out parts of God's word you want to believe... It's a package deal. Some of it might be a little hard to adhere to but we just have to do our best. Remember God is our heavenly Father...and like any parent he is also forgiving, and will never turn his back on his child. When we stomp off and sulk or do things he doesn't approve of he, like all fathers, just waits for us to look in his direction like the brat child we can be sometimes....and he will nod or shake his head, smile and open his arms for us.
Have several great days
OkeeNarnie
The next question is: how does one explain the conflict between what the Bible says and what science proves?
Did we evolve from something on all 4's or is the Bible and Gods word the truth.... The only way to find the real answer is to die. But then your gone and can't stand in front of the TV camera or the reporter and give the interview to substantiate the facts.
One thing I feel is of importance is dealing with life and death. I have lost some very important people to me in my life. My grandparents, aunts, my dad and one of my children...my only son. IF I DIDN'T BELIEVE IN GOD... that would mean that life just ends and thats all there is. Like squishing an ant. Gods word tells me that we will live again, in his world for eternity, along with those who have passed already. Much easier to handle then... squish, dead and gone.
Also you can't just pick out parts of God's word you want to believe... It's a package deal. Some of it might be a little hard to adhere to but we just have to do our best. Remember God is our heavenly Father...and like any parent he is also forgiving, and will never turn his back on his child. When we stomp off and sulk or do things he doesn't approve of he, like all fathers, just waits for us to look in his direction like the brat child we can be sometimes....and he will nod or shake his head, smile and open his arms for us.
The percentage of people who believe in evolution (without devine intervention) is on the rise. In the U.S., that number is lower due to the influence of religion.
In European countries, more than 80% believe in evolution without devine intervention.
In this country, a high percentage of scientists (more than 80%) and a high percentage of those Americans who have master degrees or higher are more likely to believe in evolution without devine intervention.
I believe a person would be welcomed into church no matter what he was wearing. If he was dirty or poorly dressed, after a period of time, he may be counseled by the elders to see if there was any way they could help him. It is the hope of the congregation that after hearing the message of the Bible, the newbie would feel the importance of cleaning up and the fact that it shows respect to do so. It is a given fact that a person doesn't have to be in church to pray. I have personally decided to take advantage of the Biblical fact there is only one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ. However, I would not disregard the scripture that says, "where two are gathered in my name, there will my spirit be", indicating also, the importance of Christians to gather together. I have seen evidence of stife in congregations , to the point that some people will leave a certain church and start attending another one in order to escape it, or they simply like the preacher or members of the new church better. I have even heard of people switching churches for political reasons. Isn't that great?
Horselover, people who believe in the Bible will try to present it and teach it to others out of love for them, and the fact that each person has the God given choice to accept it or reject it comes into play here. I admit that my tongue is sharper than a two-sided blade and that I should tone it down to at least one sharp side. When a person objects to Bible scriptures and principles, to begin with, I'm afraid it may seem that way no matter what one says or how they put it. Note the mention of goddesses in some posts as opposed to God. Note also, if you would care to peek into the Bible, some of the references to Jesus' own words and actions, like overturning the money tables in the santuarys. The truth sometimes comes across as very sharp, indeed.
That is my entire point, no matter what we do, or how we dress, religion is a person thing and each have there own time and place for it, I have not a problem with people who believe in the bible, but I do have an issue when it comes to people telling me what i should believe in,
there was a preacher many years ago in orlando, he came to sunday service in blue jeans and a white t-shirt, and he was asked the question of, what would you do if someone came in dressed like a dum in your church, the preacher turn and stated i dont care if they come in a swimsuit as long as they come, I also get tired of people quoteing out of the bible and there tongue is sharper than a 2 sided blade,
also i used gc to prove a point, due to the fact that he does do alot of community work, but has also done alot of things he is not proud of in his life like the rest of us have,
horselover wrote: Being that FLSR used my comment on the gay issue , I am bound to respond to this,
there is no where in the bible that states you have to give a cetain percentage of your income, also if you are poor and yard cloths are allyou have then people would put you down, because you dont own a sundays best out fit, how many of you have family in the military, if you choose to abide by your bible then your family members are sinners, the bible states that war is wrong, so now stop and think about that,
I will give you an example of a person we all know, citizen GC, he has been in the military, he has also drank, done his share of drugs, and tells off people... does that make him a bad person, no it does not, it makes him the person he is, he does not hide behind a book of words that the meaning is interrrpreted 500 different ways what you see is what you get,
just as kids are not exceptable out of wedlock, how many of you have kids or grandkids that were born out of wedlock, or the marriage took place just before the baby was born???? you allowed this to happen you are a sinner in gods world...
heck, I will use myself, I smoke, I drank years ago, I lived with both of my husbands or should I say they lived with me for years before getting married, does this make me a bad person NO its called being a person and making choices on my own, I run a horse rescue and take care of large animals out of my own pocket so they have a chance in life, do i sell them when they are up to snuff, no I adopt them out for nothing or a little fee of 50 to 100.00 which is only about 2.5 weeks of food and soem of these guys are here for 6 months to a year, I have taken in kids that are not mine nor husbands and gave them a place to call home and a person to call mom or dad......everyone has there own way of showing how they care and just because we dont carry a bible and quote scriptures from it does not make us any less than those of you who can...we just put our hearts into what we think is important not what a book tells us is.......
people who have sinned in the bibles eyes
politicians, teachers,preachers,police officers,judges,doctors, parents , kids, anyone who goes into society can sin whether they think they are is another story....... Horselover you will have to decide for yourself if you want to follow the traditions of man or traditions of the Bible.My relationship with God is personal,it doesn't matter if I go to church with my granddaughter I will support that church that day, I will give a portion of the money in my wallet other wise I don't attend church ,organized religion ,I get very little out of(I'm talking about knowledge)And I don't think it matters where your at or what your wearing.I may be standing in the barn with cow crap on my boots,if I feel the need that minute ,I will talk to God ,He is my comforter.and I give him all the glory.And I'll tell you he has been the only thing that has kept me going these pass few months.And what I do or Citizen GC does if we are drinking and smoking that is sins against yourself,we are hurting ourselves ,I centainly don't think I will be condemed to hells fire and d**nation but I know that I will have to answer for sins against God.Sins against the flesh is not the unforgivable sin! I may be wrong but I will answer to that ....Firefly
Last edited on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 04:50 pm by Firefly1958
horselover wrote: Being that FLSR used my comment on the gay issue , I am bound to respond to this,
there is no where in the bible that states you have to give a cetain percentage of your income, also if you are poor and yard cloths are allyou have then people would put you down, because you dont own a sundays best out fit, how many of you have family in the military, if you choose to abide by your bible then your family members are sinners, the bible states that war is wrong, so now stop and think about that,
I will give you an example of a person we all know, citizen GC, he has been in the military, he has also drank, done his share of drugs, and tells off people... does that make him a bad person, no it does not, it makes him the person he is, he does not hide behind a book of words that the meaning is interrrpreted 500 different ways what you see is what you get,
just as kids are not exceptable out of wedlock, how many of you have kids or grandkids that were born out of wedlock, or the marriage took place just before the baby was born???? you allowed this to happen you are a sinner in gods world...
heck, I will use myself, I smoke, I drank years ago, I lived with both of my husbands or should I say they lived with me for years before getting married, does this make me a bad person NO its called being a person and making choices on my own, I run a horse rescue and take care of large animals out of my own pocket so they have a chance in life, do i sell them when they are up to snuff, no I adopt them out for nothing or a little fee of 50 to 100.00 which is only about 2.5 weeks of food and soem of these guys are here for 6 months to a year, I have taken in kids that are not mine nor husbands and gave them a place to call home and a person to call mom or dad......everyone has there own way of showing how they care and just because we dont carry a bible and quote scriptures from it does not make us any less than those of you who can...we just put our hearts into what we think is important not what a book tells us is.......
people who have sinned in the bibles eyes
politicians, teachers,preachers,police officers,judges,doctors, parents , kids, anyone who goes into society can sin whether they think they are is another story.......
Let me say here and now, lest some may not understand where I am coming from with my Bible quotes etc. I do not in any way feel that I am any better than anyone else. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I am guilty of practically everything anyone mentions in the way of sin and also some of the good qualities a person has. When I bring the Bible into discussions it is because I view it as the end all of the history of Christianity and the principles to follow for a life which will be abundantly rewarded, mainly with eterrnal life. If all would play the part the world would be a wonderful place to live right now. No locked doors. Neighbors helping neighbors, people working for a living, rather than living off what others have worked for, husbands not abusing wives. Need I go on? Instead, people who want to make their own rules so that everything they do is okay in their mind, simply reject the Bible and write their own book of rules and form their own religions, which the Bible refers to as false religions. I do not expect that I would be allowed into the new system unless I changed my ways dramatically. I only hope that I can live long enough to see the beginning of the doing away with the practices that are making this world a horrible place to be. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on EARTH as it is in heaven.
About the yard clothes, if that is all you had and they were clean, a true Christian would not put you down. An example may be------how do you dress for a wedding? Or in this day and age is there no standard at all for showing respect for any occasion whatever. The Bible example of wearing your clean white outer garments to worship is a message of respect. Now I suppose someone who would try to imply it is literal would think that meant you had to go and buy an all white garment. As to the wars, some people are consientous objectors and serve their country by working in hospitals as my son-in-law did. Also regarding the wars in Bible times did you ever notice that when God sent forth his armies, they never lost a battle? The Bible is full of history, principles and prophesies and it is the responsibility of the reader or student to get the proper understanding of it, rather than to deride the message because we may not like parts of it. Some people who poopoo the Bible and bring up practices in the beginning of it will tout the love thy neighbor and do not judge part. To each his own, as I always say. Witches and believers in other types of religions can have their say and try to promote their beliefs as well, same as with the gay/nongay issues. That is why I started a religion thread so that people can come here if their posts seem to be going in the direction of religion.
Being that FLSR used my comment on the gay issue , I am bound to respond to this,
there is no where in the bible that states you have to give a cetain percentage of your income, also if you are poor and yard cloths are allyou have then people would put you down, because you dont own a sundays best out fit, how many of you have family in the military, if you choose to abide by your bible then your family members are sinners, the bible states that war is wrong, so now stop and think about that,
I will give you an example of a person we all know, citizen GC, he has been in the military, he has also drank, done his share of drugs, and tells off people... does that make him a bad person, no it does not, it makes him the person he is, he does not hide behind a book of words that the meaning is interrrpreted 500 different ways what you see is what you get,
just as kids are not exceptable out of wedlock, how many of you have kids or grandkids that were born out of wedlock, or the marriage took place just before the baby was born???? you allowed this to happen you are a sinner in gods world...
heck, I will use myself, I smoke, I drank years ago, I lived with both of my husbands or should I say they lived with me for years before getting married, does this make me a bad person NO its called being a person and making choices on my own, I run a horse rescue and take care of large animals out of my own pocket so they have a chance in life, do i sell them when they are up to snuff, no I adopt them out for nothing or a little fee of 50 to 100.00 which is only about 2.5 weeks of food and soem of these guys are here for 6 months to a year, I have taken in kids that are not mine nor husbands and gave them a place to call home and a person to call mom or dad......everyone has there own way of showing how they care and just because we dont carry a bible and quote scriptures from it does not make us any less than those of you who can...we just put our hearts into what we think is important not what a book tells us is.......
people who have sinned in the bibles eyes
politicians, teachers,preachers,police officers,judges,doctors, parents , kids, anyone who goes into society can sin whether they think they are is another story.......
Firefly1958 wrote: flsr wrote: ((((((((((((((((See this is what I am talking about, those that quote out of the bible, can not answer the simple question of why?, are we being punished for adam and eve and if so god does not believe in it, so is said,
As for the JW as i said i have nothing against them, but answer the question when is the new system taking place or is it another false statement like the pearly gates?? I have read more watch towers and the other magizines than a normal person sh0ould read in a life time I have went to there bible studies, I have also been a part of the kingdom hall for years and again no one can answer the question of when,When what? also when people die they are just that DEAD , your body rots over time,To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord .cave men come back over the years NO , again god is suppose to make the world a better place , show me in the bible where it states to give paart of your income to the church,Leviticus 27:30,Numbers 18:26, Deuteronomy 14:24, 2 Chronicles 31:15,1 Corinthians 16;1-2 is suppose to bring a better future where no money is needed then why do you give your hard earned money to the church, ask yourself that question.....Religious To keep spreading the word through the church or through missionaries and also to do the Lords work through charities.
Son that is the best thing I have seen in a long time; I'm sitting here wiping tears out of my eyes !!!!! Good one CitizenGC!
