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Joe Bltzlflk
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:40 am |
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Concerned Taxpayer wrote: ...You can't cure stupid!
That is so wide open for such an obvious response, I just can't let myself do it.
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Concerned Taxpayer
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:11 am |
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Ciphered wrote: Even if it were $1500, that is a small price to pay when you compare it to the overall county budget and the benefit we will receive.
Exactly what benefit will we directly receive from this expenditure of public money for their attendance at the conference? The conference schedule did not include a course on "Common Sense," of which they are entirely lacking! No matter how many conferences they may attend, you can't cure stupid!
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Joe Bltzlflk
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 02:52 pm |
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Ciphered wrote: ...<snip>...I knew as soon as I saw the article this morning that ignorant criticism would flood this site. To suggest that the commissioners should skip the conference because we are in hard budgetary times or because some county citizen may be having trouble paying rent or buying groceries would be penny-wise but pound-foolish....
My faith is restored -- not everyone in Okeechobee is a dummy! Thank you.
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timthom75
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 01:47 pm |
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| Paper said all but Betts went to the conference, right?
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AvaL
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 10:16 am |
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Miss Kitty wrote: AvaL wrote: Miss Kitty wrote: I just wanted to know if the spouses went .If so did the Okeechobee people pay for that to. If not great.I agree you have to go to get your credits,and learn things to better our county. Like I said, Ive been to many.So don't act like its all work and no play.Buts thats OK to
You are not the only person posting on this thread. If I had been talking directly and only to you, I would have quoted you, and I am sure Ciphered would have too. Although I really can't speak for them, I take their post to be a general response to everyone, not just you, which may explain why there is so much detail that you didn't ask about. I also don't believe either of us said its all work and no play, in fact I see statements contrary to that and the entire schedule already proves that. Since you don't see the answer in the two posts since yours, and if you don't see them soon, try visiting this site to see if you can find it there.
http://www.fl-counties.com/fcf/facconferences/annualconference09.shtml
Sorry the post I put out there.It was for anyone that had the answer.That's why I didn't quote anyone.Thanks for the site I will ck it out.
Honestly, I just wanted to make sure you weren't offended cause you haven't gotten an answer yet, which you seemed to be. My mistake if you weren't...Hope the site helps, I also think the palm beach post, and several other newspapers have written articles about the event and there might be some information in them.
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Miss Kitty
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 10:10 am |
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AvaL wrote: Miss Kitty wrote: I just wanted to know if the spouses went .If so did the Okeechobee people pay for that to. If not great.I agree you have to go to get your credits,and learn things to better our county. Like I said, Ive been to many.So don't act like its all work and no play.Buts thats OK to
You are not the only person posting on this thread. If I had been talking directly and only to you, I would have quoted you, and I am sure Ciphered would have too. Although I really can't speak for them, I take their post to be a general response to everyone, not just you, which may explain why there is so much detail that you didn't ask about. I also don't believe either of us said its all work and no play, in fact I see statements contrary to that and the entire schedule already proves that. Since you don't see the answer in the two posts since yours, and if you don't see them soon, try visiting this site to see if you can find it there.
http://www.fl-counties.com/fcf/facconferences/annualconference09.shtml
Sorry the post I put out there.It was for anyone that had the answer.That's why I didn't quote anyone.Thanks for the site I will ck it out.
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AvaL
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 09:53 am |
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Miss Kitty wrote: I just wanted to know if the spouses went .If so did the Okeechobee people pay for that to. If not great.I agree you have to go to get your credits,and learn things to better our county. Like I said, Ive been to many.So don't act like its all work and no play.Buts thats OK to
You are not the only person posting on this thread. If I had been talking directly and only to you, I would have quoted you, and I am sure Ciphered would have too. Although I really can't speak for them, I take their post to be a general response to everyone, not just you, which may explain why there is so much detail that you didn't ask about. I also don't believe either of us said its all work and no play, in fact I see statements contrary to that and the entire schedule already proves that. Since you don't see the answer in the two posts since yours, and if you don't see them soon, try visiting this site to see if you can find it there.
http://www.fl-counties.com/fcf/facconferences/annualconference09.shtml
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Miss Kitty
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 09:22 am |
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| I just wanted to know if the spouses went .If so did the Okeechobee people pay for that to. If not great.I agree you have to go to get your credits,and learn things to better our county. Like I said, Ive been to many.So don't act like its all work and no play.Buts thats OK to
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AvaL
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 07:35 am |
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Ciphered wrote: This is truly small-minded criticism by folks who have obviously never been to conferences of this nature. These things have more value to us citizens of Okeechobee than the cost. The opportunity to attend workshops and seminars on subjects that can improve the daily function of the commission and the county staff will benefit us all in the long run. And these things are far from vacations. I have been to several conferences all over this state and, if you have never been to Marco Island in June or July, you don't know how miserably hot it is. Most of the island is closed up, the condos are boarded up for the summer, and the prices are dirt cheap compared to the season from October to April. $149 a night is cheap. It would be impractical to have the commissioners stay at smaller hotels and travel to the conference site. It would add mileage to the travel expense and parking fees. It would also keep them from mingling in the early mornings and evenings, and ultimately networking after the seminars and workshops, with leaders from other counties, as well as the conference presenters, which is large part of the benefit of such conferences. I doubt that any of our commissioners can be accused of abusing the trip by making it a vacation. They will work most of the time they are there. And if there families are with them, they will not be spending much time with them, I assure you.
Holding the conference in central Florida is not practical this time of year. The prices are as high or higher at the large conference hotels, where as someone mentioned they have the conference rooms large enough to handle multiple workshops and seminars at one time. I have a conference to attend in August in Orlando and I can tell you the discounted hotel rate is higher than the rate the commissioners are getting at Marco Island. The county conference was put together by people with more experience at conference planning than any of us and I am confident they took into account any cheaper alternatives to the Marco Island venue before making the decision to hold it there.
The commissioners and key county staff need these conferences to keep abreast of latest developments in the law, in approaches to governmental problems (such as budgeting in lean times), and new ideas for local leaders. They will have an opportunity to meet vendors who may have new products or programs to save money or make operations more efficient. Running a small, rural county government can be more difficult if you never venture out to see how others are handling similar circumstances. It's easy to get stagnant in a pond where the water never flows out occasionally. I would guess that the average conference cost will be less than $1500 per person, probably closer to $900. Even if it were $1500, that is a small price to pay when you compare it to the overall county budget and the benefit we will receive.
I knew as soon as I saw the article this morning that ignorant criticism would flood this site. To suggest that the commissioners should skip the conference because we are in hard budgetary times or because some county citizen may be having trouble paying rent or buying groceries would be penny-wise but pound-foolish. It would be like refusing to have your car tuned because the price of gas is high and your car isn't getting good gas mileage anymore. It would be a mistake if our leaders did NOT go to the conference.
Well said. I also read that 18 CCC credit hours were given. County Commissioners are required to have 42 hours to graduate, so this is a HUGE chunk, and ultimately saves money by not having to attend so many other conferences to receive less amounts of credit. I believe 12 people graduated this year, and graduation is only held once a year at this conference. People would like to think its one big vacation and assume that nothing else goes on. It is probably the fault of corrupt politicians actually doing that, but it doesn't mean that EVERY time a conference goes on that it is just a vacation.
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Ciphered
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Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 07:19 am |
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This is truly small-minded criticism by folks who have obviously never been to conferences of this nature. These things have more value to us citizens of Okeechobee than the cost. The opportunity to attend workshops and seminars on subjects that can improve the daily function of the commission and the county staff will benefit us all in the long run. And these things are far from vacations. I have been to several conferences all over this state and, if you have never been to Marco Island in June or July, you don't know how miserably hot it is. Most of the island is closed up, the condos are boarded up for the summer, and the prices are dirt cheap compared to the season from October to April. $149 a night is cheap. It would be impractical to have the commissioners stay at smaller hotels and travel to the conference site. It would add mileage to the travel expense and parking fees. It would also keep them from mingling in the early mornings and evenings, and ultimately networking after the seminars and workshops, with leaders from other counties, as well as the conference presenters, which is large part of the benefit of such conferences. I doubt that any of our commissioners can be accused of abusing the trip by making it a vacation. They will work most of the time they are there. And if there families are with them, they will not be spending much time with them, I assure you.
Holding the conference in central Florida is not practical this time of year. The prices are as high or higher at the large conference hotels, where as someone mentioned they have the conference rooms large enough to handle multiple workshops and seminars at one time. I have a conference to attend in August in Orlando and I can tell you the discounted hotel rate is higher than the rate the commissioners are getting at Marco Island. The county conference was put together by people with more experience at conference planning than any of us and I am confident they took into account any cheaper alternatives to the Marco Island venue before making the decision to hold it there.
The commissioners and key county staff need these conferences to keep abreast of latest developments in the law, in approaches to governmental problems (such as budgeting in lean times), and new ideas for local leaders. They will have an opportunity to meet vendors who may have new products or programs to save money or make operations more efficient. Running a small, rural county government can be more difficult if you never venture out to see how others are handling similar circumstances. It's easy to get stagnant in a pond where the water never flows out occasionally. I would guess that the average conference cost will be less than $1500 per person, probably closer to $900. Even if it were $1500, that is a small price to pay when you compare it to the overall county budget and the benefit we will receive.
I knew as soon as I saw the article this morning that ignorant criticism would flood this site. To suggest that the commissioners should skip the conference because we are in hard budgetary times or because some county citizen may be having trouble paying rent or buying groceries would be penny-wise but pound-foolish. It would be like refusing to have your car tuned because the price of gas is high and your car isn't getting good gas mileage anymore. It would be a mistake if our leaders did NOT go to the conference.
Last edited on Mon Jun 29th, 2009 07:21 am by Ciphered
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Miss Kitty
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 05:32 pm |
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| Did they get to bring their spouse and if so who paid for their meals and entertainment ? I'm sure many have gone on trips like this with their companies.If so you know what it is all about.At a time like this with people out of work in Okeechobee,I can see some being upset for paying for their vacations.When they don't even have rent ,food or gas money let alone vacation money.
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flsr
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 05:21 pm |
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| The best idea was to meet somewhere midstate. Maybe some year they will have to meet with the "go to meeting" program, but heck that wouldn't be any fun would it?
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johnnie
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 05:07 pm |
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AvaL wrote: johnnie wrote:
Some events, I left out meetings and workshops.
lets see who turns in payment vouchers or whom will give us taxpayers a report on what insight they may have learned with our money spent.
How can you say that when you left out all the workshops and meetings? You are trying to paint one picture, instead of giving the entire picture.
How bad of me here ya go.
Tuesday, June 23
1:00 pm. – 6:00 p.m. FAC Golf Outing
1:00 p.m. – 6:30 p.m. Exhibitor Registration & Setup
2:30 p.m. – 6:30 p.m. Attendee Registration Open
3:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Collier County Emergency Services
Center Tour
7:00 p.m. Sunset Dinner Cruise
WeWed.dnesday, June 24
8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m. Continental Breakfast
8:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. Registration Desk & Exhibit Hall Open
8:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m. Workshop - Financial Management
8:30 a.m. – 9:30 a.m. FCF Board of Directors Meeting
10:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m. Enterprise Workshops
10:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m. FAC Board of Directors Meeting
12:00 p.m. – 1:30 p.m. FAC Awards Luncheon
2:00 p.m. – 3:30 p.m. FAC Opening General Session
4:00 p.m. – 5:30 p.m. Workshop
4:00 p.m. – 5:30 p.m. Workshop
6:00 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. Welcome Reception
Thursday, June 25
8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m. Continental Breakfast
8:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. Registration Desk Open
8:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m. Exhibit Hall Open
8:30 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. Workshop
8:30 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. Workshop
10:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m. Growth Management Select Committee
10:15 a.m. – 11:45 a.m. General Session Part I – Negotiations
12:00 p.m. – 1:30 p.m. FAC Installation Luncheon
& CCC/ACC Graduation
1:30 p.m. – 4:00 p.m. Energy Independence Workgroup
2:00 p.m. – 3:30 p.m. General Session Part II – Negotiations
2:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m. County Managers Workshop
4:00 p.m. – 5:30 p.m. FAC Annual Business Meeting
5:30 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. President’s Reception
7:30 p.m. – 10:00 p.m. Marco Island Restaurant Tour
Friday, June 26
8:00 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. FAC Closing General Session Breakfast
10:30 a.m. – 2:30 p.m. Post-Conference Workshop
– Legislative Process
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AvaL
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:59 pm |
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johnnie wrote:
Some events, I left out meetings and workshops.
lets see who turns in payment vouchers or whom will give us taxpayers a report on what insight they may have learned with our money spent.
How can you say that when you left out all the workshops and meetings? You are trying to paint one picture, instead of giving the entire picture.
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Cuckoo
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:49 pm |
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| They had to miss the golf outing due to commish meeting locally.... Pete did an article in todays paper...
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johnnie
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:32 pm |
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Our elected and appointed leaders saving us money
Join us at the Marco Island Marriott, June 23-26 for the Florida Association of Counties 2009 Annual Conference
If you are unable to reserve a room at the Marco Island Marriott, you have another option:
- HILTON MARCO ISLAND
FAC does not have additional rooms blocked at this hotel. However, we recommend the Hilton as an overflow property – it is located next door to the Marriott.
Some events, I left out meetings and workshops.
lets see who turns in payment vouchers or whom will give us taxpayers a report on what insight they may have learned with our money spent.
Tuesday June 23Tuesd(ay, June 23
1:00 pm. – 6:00 p.m. FAC Golf Outing (on our payroll?)
7:00 p.m. Sunset Dinner Cruise
Wednesday, June 24
Wednsday June 24
8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m. Continental Breakfast
12:00 p.m. – 1:30 p.m. FAC Awards Luncheon
6:00 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. Welcome Reception
Thursday June 25Thursday, June 25
8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m. Continental Breakfast
5:30 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. President’s Reception
7:30 p.m. – 10:00 p.m. Marco Island Restaurant Tour
Friday June 26Friday, June 26
8:00 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. FAC Closing General Session Breakfast
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johnnie
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:02 pm |
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Joe Bltzlflk wrote:
As Ava said, they were not there to spend the night in a seedy hotel. They were there for a conference, which requires meeting rooms, multimedia facilities, etc. Places with thiose kinds of facilities are not cheap. $149 per night for a facility that can handle a major, state-wide conference IS cheap. A total of $1,500 per person for such a conference is dirt cheap, and worth far more than the cost.
This is just another typical case of Okeechobee small-mindedness and lack of understanding about how the world works. I love living here, except for the dummies.
I see this both ways Joe, (1) To meet jointly in a conference with peers from all over the state facing the same issues as we may be invaluable.
Gaining insight on how those issues are dealt with statewide by other jurisdictions, programs available and explained, resources and education they/we may desperately need, especially those new to all the government processes red tape and inflated top heavy overpaid bureaucracies.
(2) Here is where I have a major problem with this particular event. Why Marco Island? A place known for high prices, opulence and excesses that working stiffs will never see, way down at the tip of the long peninsula known as Florida. Would be more prudent to have this event in a centrally located area within the state with an abundance of convention locations that because of the economy can be available for less cost, with numerous less expensive accommodations within a walk or short commute even using available mass transit. Can you see this area in your mind?
So, while a needed event I feel this self serving, self righteous, ego maniac group with delusions of god like authority spend our money as if from a bottomless pit on an island grandiose resort used poor judgement when choosing the location. Go to the Florida association of counties and check out the extra's. Was a self serving plan complete with expensive social events.
Poor poor judgement on the planning side of this event.
Get the government out of our pockets and daily lives.
Last edited on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 04:05 pm by johnnie
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Joe Bltzlflk
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 03:35 pm |
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Concerned Taxpayer wrote: Joe Bltzlflk wrote: As Ava said, they were not there to spend the night in a seedy hotel. They were there for a conference, which requires meeting rooms, multimedia facilities, etc. Places with thiose kinds of facilities are not cheap. $149 per night for a facility that can handle a major, state-wide conference IS cheap. A total of $1,500 per person for such a conference is dirt cheap, and worth far more than the cost.
This is just another typical case of Okeechobee small-mindedness and lack of understanding about how the world works. I love living here, except for the dummies.
The lack of understanding, perhaps including dumbness, appears to be on your part. At a time that county employees are being laid off, and people are being asked to make sacrifices to save money, was attending the conference absolutely necessary? No, it was not! This is simply an arrogant example of the hypocrisy of the county commissioners, county administrator, and some of the county staff, who would have us do as they say, but not as they do. It was money unnecessarily spent!
When times get tough, the wise folks evaluate value. Is the shared information at a conference like this more valuable than the dollars spent to go there? In my experience, it usually is. That value can only be evaluated by someone who was there. To blindly criticize spending without knowing the value is dumbness.
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Concerned Taxpayer
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Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 03:13 pm |
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Joe Bltzlflk wrote: As Ava said, they were not there to spend the night in a seedy hotel. They were there for a conference, which requires meeting rooms, multimedia facilities, etc. Places with thiose kinds of facilities are not cheap. $149 per night for a facility that can handle a major, state-wide conference IS cheap. A total of $1,500 per person for such a conference is dirt cheap, and worth far more than the cost.
This is just another typical case of Okeechobee small-mindedness and lack of understanding about how the world works. I love living here, except for the dummies.
The lack of understanding, perhaps including dumbness, appears to be on your part. At a time that county employees are being laid off, and people are being asked to make sacrifices to save money, was attending the conference absolutely necessary? No, it was not! This is simply an arrogant example of the hypocrisy of the county commissioners, county administrator, and some of the county staff, who would have us do as they say, but not as they do. It was money unnecessarily spent!
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johnnie
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 11:27 pm |
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who cares as long as they had a good time and learned government stuff
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flsr
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 05:22 pm |
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Joe Bltzlflk wrote: Hmm. Maybe they should not get together and compare solutions to common problems. After all, they might learn something, and who wants that? Or,. if they are going to get together, maybe they could set up a tent city somewhere and sleep on cots instead of spending (gasp!) $149 per night. I mean, everyone who travels knows that's an outrageously high amount to spend for a hotel room -- right? And, to save gas, maybe they should hitchhike...
You have finally come up with a good idea.
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Joe Bltzlflk
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 02:19 pm |
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AvaL wrote: horselover wrote: Joe Bltzlflk wrote: Hmm. Maybe they should not get together and compare solutions to common problems. After all, they might learn something, and who wants that? Or,. if they are going to get together, maybe they could set up a tent city somewhere and sleep on cots instead of spending (gasp!) $149 per night. I mean, everyone who travels knows that's an outrageously high amount to spend for a hotel room -- right? And, to save gas, maybe they should hitchhike... Actually Joe, my second job is night auditing at a hotel, our rates are 69.00 per night for double and 79.00 per night for king, also down the road a piece is Holiday Inn. there rates are 79.00 for a queen and 89.00 for a king, this is also with free cont breakfast, so yes they could have gotten it about 50.00 cheaper per person, or they could have found a mom & pop place in which would hav given them a deal for the room especially if all the boad members went with the admin, heck off season in daytona you can get cheaper than 149
Perhaps the needed a place which could properly accommodate their conferences too.
As Ava said, they were not there to spend the night in a seedy hotel. They were there for a conference, which requires meeting rooms, multimedia facilities, etc. Places with thiose kinds of facilities are not cheap. $149 per night for a facility that can handle a major, state-wide conference IS cheap. A total of $1,500 per person for such a conference is dirt cheap, and worth far more than the cost.
This is just another typical case of Okeechobee small-mindedness and lack of understanding about how the world works. I love living here, except for the dummies.
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AvaL
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 01:19 pm |
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horselover wrote: Joe Bltzlflk wrote: Hmm. Maybe they should not get together and compare solutions to common problems. After all, they might learn something, and who wants that? Or,. if they are going to get together, maybe they could set up a tent city somewhere and sleep on cots instead of spending (gasp!) $149 per night. I mean, everyone who travels knows that's an outrageously high amount to spend for a hotel room -- right? And, to save gas, maybe they should hitchhike... Actually Joe, my second job is night auditing at a hotel, our rates are 69.00 per night for double and 79.00 per night for king, also down the road a piece is Holiday Inn. there rates are 79.00 for a queen and 89.00 for a king, this is also with free cont breakfast, so yes they could have gotten it about 50.00 cheaper per person, or they could have found a mom & pop place in which would hav given them a deal for the room especially if all the boad members went with the admin, heck off season in daytona you can get cheaper than 149
Perhaps the needed a place which could properly accommodate their conferences too.
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okeetaxpayer
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 01:12 pm |
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The question was never answered. How many commissioners went and did they take supporting staff? If so, how much is this costing the taxpayers?
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horselover
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:16 am |
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Joe Bltzlflk wrote: Hmm. Maybe they should not get together and compare solutions to common problems. After all, they might learn something, and who wants that? Or,. if they are going to get together, maybe they could set up a tent city somewhere and sleep on cots instead of spending (gasp!) $149 per night. I mean, everyone who travels knows that's an outrageously high amount to spend for a hotel room -- right? And, to save gas, maybe they should hitchhike... Actually Joe, my second job is night auditing at a hotel, our rates are 69.00 per night for double and 79.00 per night for king, also down the road a piece is Holiday Inn. there rates are 79.00 for a queen and 89.00 for a king, this is also with free cont breakfast, so yes they could have gotten it about 50.00 cheaper per person, or they could have found a mom & pop place in which would hav given them a deal for the room especially if all the boad members went with the admin, heck off season in daytona you can get cheaper than 149
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Joe Bltzlflk
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:49 am |
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Hmm. Maybe they should not get together and compare solutions to common problems. After all, they might learn something, and who wants that? Or,. if they are going to get together, maybe they could set up a tent city somewhere and sleep on cots instead of spending (gasp!) $149 per night. I mean, everyone who travels knows that's an outrageously high amount to spend for a hotel room -- right? And, to save gas, maybe they should hitchhike...
Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:49 am by Joe Bltzlflk
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pops
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:05 am |
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| Last edited on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 03:05 am by pops
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Concerned Taxpayer
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 10:47 pm |
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The Florida Association of Counties 2009 Conference was held on June 23-26 at the Marco Island Marriott hotel and resort. The cost per person was: $325 for the conference; $149 + taxes per night for the hotel room; plus the cost of travel; plus the cost of meals. So, a conservative estimate is that the total cost per person would be approximately $1,500.
How many members of the Board of County Commissioners attended? Besides the County Administrator, how many members of the County Staff attended?
At a time of a budget crisis in the county government, with county employees being laid-off, how can they justify spending taxpayers' money to attend a conference at a vacation resort?
Have they no shame?
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