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Halvah
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 02:47 pm |
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Terrance wrote: Halvah, I was just chasticized by Playing The Game for using the word Jew. I notice you also use this word so I figured I'd give you a heads up before PTG lets you have it too. Here's what PTG wrote:
There you go claiming to hate bigotry and racism and then making statements like this Terrance. Jew is not a nice term, it is slang for Jewish which I'm sure you meant to use, like "any member of the Jewish Faith". Something about a "high horse" and getting your butt off it.?
It is tantamount to me using the awful "N" word in describing someone of the negro race, or "whitey" for someone of the caucasian race. To the good people on this Delaware, USA forum. Before I sit for my evening meal, please let me attempt to broker some peace accord. Jew is a descriptive term. It can be nice or it can be not so nice. For instance, I can say "I am a Jew" and there would be nothing wrong about that. You can say "He is a Jew" and it still be fine. Even an Arab can say, "There goes a Jew" and depending on the tone of voice, it can be nice or not. It can also be nondescript. A "Palestinian" can say, "As a Jew he has provided assistance." As a young boy in New York City, I have heard the term used in various ways. In Jerusalem I encountered the same thing. The Arab term for Jew is Yehut and there it is usually said in a derrogatory manner, but not always. The term has been heard in Lebanon, the Gaza, Samaria, Judea, Sderot, Cairo, Teheran, and in the cities of Europe. Most Jews are not offended by it depending on the way it is used. We have lived with it for centuries and as the Bal Shem Tov said, "Just as it came to you on the wind, the same wind will blow it away." So that being said, let me bid you a find evening and wish you all peace. Shalom.
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Halvah
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Posted: Mon Aug 18th, 2008 02:34 pm |
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The Temple Mount
JERUSALEM – A number of Arab states quietly have sent intelligence agents to infiltrate the Temple Mount to determine how they can obtain more influence over Judaism's holiest site, informed security sources told WND.
"It's possible in the coming two years a deal will be made that transfers the Temple Mount out from Israeli hands," said a security source. "The Arab countries are vying for influence, since they think controlling the site means big prestige in the Muslim world."
The security sources said the Arab agents mostly are attempting to infiltrate the Waqf, the Muslim custodians of the Temple Mount, securing all sorts of positions from Waqf garden workers through religious clerics inside the Mount's many mosques.
The Waqf is largely controlled by Jordan, which took over top positions from the Palestinian Authority in recent years.
The sources said the agents' primary job is to collect information on how to gain more influence on the site. The agents also are to report on which Waqf officials are paid by Jordan, through which clerics can be suspected of having good relations with Israel.
"The Arab countries want to work their way in so Jordan doesn't get the most control once Israel gives up the Mount," said a security source.
Saudi Arabia sent the most agents to the Mount, but other countries, including Egypt, also sent agents, security sources said.
"Don't be surprised if in the near future even Somalia sends some people over to study how to have influence on the Mount," said a security source.
In line with Israeli-Palestinian negotiations started at last November's U.S.-backed Annapolis conference, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is working to create a Palestinian state before the end of the year.
Olmert is widely expected to announce Israeli evacuations from most of the West Bank and eastern sections of Jerusalem. The Temple Mount is located in eastern Jerusalem, although Israel is not expected to immediately give up the holy site during the initial attempted creation of a Palestinian state.
The Arab countries are "near certain" Israel will eventually evacuate the Temple Mount and likely hand it over to the PA together with a coalition of Muslim states, said an informed security source.
Temple Mount '100 percent Islamic'
Mainstream Palestinian leaders claim the Temple Mount is Muslim in spite of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the first and second Jewish temples.
Earlier this month, Rafiq Al Husseini, the chief of staff for PA President Mahmoud Abbas, declared Jerusalem and the Temple Mount belong to the Muslims and said any Israeli action that "offends" the Mount will be answered by 1.5 billion Muslims.
"Jerusalem is Muslim. The blessed Al Aqsa mosque and Harem Al Sharif (Temple Mount) is 100 percent Muslim. The Israelis are playing with fire when they threaten Al Aqsa with digging that is taking place," Husseini said.
In a WND exclusive interview last year, Taysir Tamimi, chief Palestinian Justice and one of the most influential Muslim leaders in Israel, argued the Jewish Temples never existed, the Western Wall really was a tying post for Muhammad's horse, the Al Aqsa Mosque was built by angels, and Abraham, Moses and Jesus were prophets for Islam.
Tamimi is considered the second most important Palestinian cleric after Muhammad Hussein, the grand mufti of Jerusalem.
"Israel started since 1967 making archeological digs to show Jewish signs to prove the relationship between Judaism and the city, and they found nothing. There is no Jewish connection to Israel before the Jews invaded in the 1880s," said Tamimi.
"About these so-called two Temples, they never existed, certainly not at the [Temple Mount]," Tamimi said during a sit-down interview in his eastern Jerusalem office.
The Palestinian cleric denied the validity of dozens of digs verified by experts worldwide revealing Jewish artifacts from the First and Second Temples throughout Jerusalem, including on the Temple Mount itself; excavations revealing Jewish homes and a synagogue in a site in Jerusalem called the City of David; or even the recent discovery of a Second Temple Jewish city in the vicinity of Jerusalem.
Tamimi said descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged. He contended the Torah was falsified to claim biblical patriarchs and matriarchs were Jewish when they actually were prophets for Islam.
"All this is not real. We don't believe in all your versions. Your Torah was falsified. The text as given to the Muslim prophet Moses never mentions Jerusalem. Maybe Jerusalem was mentioned in the rest of the Torah, which was falsified by the Jews," said Tamimi.
He said Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus were "prophets for the Israelites sent by Allah as to usher in Islam."
Asked about the Western Wall, Tamimi said the structure was a tying post for Muhammad's horse and that it is part of the Al Aqsa Mosque, even though the Wall predates the mosque by more than 1,000 years.
"The Western wall is the western wall of the Al Aqsa Mosque. It's where prophet Muhammad tied his animal which took him from Mecca to Jerusalem to receive the revelations of Allah."
The Kotel, or Western Wall, is an outer retaining wall of the Temple Mount that survived the destruction of the Second Temple and still stands today in Jerusalem.
Tamimi went on to claim to WND the Al Aqsa Mosque , which has sprung leaks and has had to be repainted several times, was built by angels.
"Al Aqsa was built by the angels 40 years after the building of Al-Haram in Mecca. This we have no doubt is true," he said.
The First Temple was built by King Solomon in the 10th century B.C. It was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C. The Second Temple was rebuilt in 515 B.C. after Jerusalem was freed from Babylonian captivity. That temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire in A.D. 70. Each temple stood for a period of about four centuries.
The Temple was the center of religious worship for ancient Israelites. It housed the Holy of Holies, which contained the Ark of the Covenant and was said to be the area upon which God's presence dwelt. All biblical holidays centered on worship at the Temple. The Temples served as the primary location for the offering of sacrifices and was the main gathering place for Israelites.
According to the Talmud, the world was created from the foundation stone of the Temple Mount. It's believed to be the biblical Mount Moriah, the location where Abraham fulfilled God's test to see if he would be willing to sacrifice his son Isaac.
The Temple Mount has remained a focal point for Jewish services for thousands of years. Prayers for a return to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple have been uttered by Jews since the Second Temple was destroyed, according to Jewish tradition.
The Al Aqsa Mosque was constructed in about A.D. 709 to serve as a shrine near another shrine, the Dome of the Rock, which was built by an Islamic caliph. Al Aqsa was meant to mark what Muslims came to believe was the place at which Muhammad, the founder of Islam, ascended to heaven to receive revelations from Allah.
Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran. It is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible 656 times. Muslims worldwide pray with their backs away from the Temple Mount and toward Mecca.
Islamic tradition states Muhammad took a journey in a single night on a horse from "a sacred mosque" – believed to be in Mecca in southern Saudi Arabia – to "the farthest mosque" and from a rock there ascended to heaven. The farthest mosque became associated with Jerusalem about 120 years ago.
According to research by Israeli Author Shmuel Berkovits, Islam historically disregarded Jerusalem. Berkovits points out in his new book, "How dreadful is this place!" that Muhammad was said to loathe Jerusalem and what it stood for. He wrote Muhammad made a point of eliminating pagan sites of worship and sanctifying only one place – the Kaaba in Mecca – to signify the unity of God.
As late as the 14th century, Islamic scholar Taqi al-Din Ibn Taymiyya, whose writings influenced the Wahhabi movement in Arabia, ruled that sacred Islamic sites are to be found only in the Arabian Peninsula, and that "in Jerusalem, there is not a place one calls sacred, and the same holds true for the tombs of Hebron."
It wasn't until the late 19th century – when Jews started immigrating to Palestine – that some Muslim scholars began claiming Muhammad tied his horse to the Western Wall and associated Muhammad's purported night journey with the Temple Mount.
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Terrance
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 12:23 am |
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Halvah, I was just chasticized by Playing The Game for using the word Jew. I notice you also use this word so I figured I'd give you a heads up before PTG lets you have it too. Here's what PTG wrote:
There you go claiming to hate bigotry and racism and then making statements like this Terrance. Jew is not a nice term, it is slang for Jewish which I'm sure you meant to use, like "any member of the Jewish Faith". Something about a "high horse" and getting your butt off it.?
It is tantamount to me using the awful "N" word in describing someone of the negro race, or "whitey" for someone of the caucasian race.
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 03:12 pm |
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Ben Franklin wrote: So let me see if I understand this. You guys are having an argument about having an argument? Weather somthing is Anti-Semetic or just an insult?
Tell me what this statment qualifies as. "Have you ever noticed that Jews are the only ones who have a special category for being Anti there religion or race?" Or does Semetic mean more than just the jewish religion?
Whats it called when youre anti america? how about christian?
If you have noticed my posts, you know I am very sensitive about language. I take issue with bigots everywhere. I don't care what race, religion, sex or whatever they are trashing.
Someone can use a bigoted statement without being fully aware of it. For instance, when you live in a place with hardly any Jews, you might not truly realize just how nasty the language you grew up with really is.
I know a lot of good people who say things that make me wince. Sometimes it takes someone to point it out for them to become aware of what they are saying.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 02:39 pm |
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So let me see if I understand this. You guys are having an argument about having an argument? Weather somthing is Anti-Semetic or just an insult?
Tell me what this statment qualifies as. "Have you ever noticed that Jews are the only ones who have a special category for being Anti there religion or race?" Or does Semetic mean more than just the jewish religion?
Whats it called when youre anti america? how about christian?
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 01:49 pm |
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Halvah, in this country after World War II, a popular criticism of the Jews was that they did not fight. The did not serve during the war. This was one of many anti-Semetic lies. When someone here says, "They never had to fight for anything ..." that is not a nice thing to say. It is a continuation of a nasty, anti-Semetic stereotype.
Jews served in this country along with everybody else. Making a blanket statement like this about Jews is unacceptable. Anti-Semetic speech is alive and well over here. It has crept into our vocabulary and thrives.
A common thing I hear people say here when they get a good deal is, "I Jewed him down." This is a variation of "I chewed him down." which simply meant I talked him down from the original price. When people substitute "Jew" for "chew", the whole meaning changes. When people insert "Jew" in there it relates to the anti-Semetic slur of the Jew as a "chiseling money lender".
As to whether or not an "average" Jew from anywhere would take offense to the statement I took issue with, I cannot comment. I have never met an average Jew. For that matter, I have never met an average anything.
Having been raised in New York City, I can tell you that on more than one occasion I was with a Jewish person who took issue with this very statement. I've seen responses that ranged from crying, to yelling, to a fist in the face.
I have also experienced Jews being critical of other Jews. That is a different issue.
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Halvah
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 12:56 pm |
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My dear friends. Before I have my afternoon glass of tea, let me attempt to settle some disagreement over what is a racial slur or an anti-Semitic remark. Firstly, Mr. Terrance, let me thank you for your enthusiastic support, however, please do not loose sight of the intent of racial slurs and ethnic remarks. They intent to besmirch, demean or otherwise discredit an ethnic or racial group in order to foster hate. There is nothing in this discussion that the average Israeli Jew or even an American Jew would take offense to. Perhaps someone in the extreme may but those people can and will find a flea in the largest of dogs. The following are remarks that are offensive, to say the least and fit my description. The first one was made by members of the Egyptian Moustache Society in an interview:
Interviewer: Do you respect all types of moustaches – regardless of their size, length, or width?
Allam Muhammad Abdel Al-Halim: Of course.
Interviewer: Even Hitler's moustache?
Captain Sayyed Shahada: By the way, I respect the moustache of this Hitler, because he humiliated the most despicable sect in the world. He subdued the people who subdued the whole world – him with his "11" moustache. By the way, that kind of moustache is called "11." The generation of this Hitler... When I was little, my father, may he rest in peace, grew that kind of moustache, and so did all his class members. They all had this "11" moustache. That was in the days of Hitler... My father...
And then we have this:
The following are excerpts from a report about Al-Qaeda's anti-American military activities in Afghanistan. Al-Arabiya TV aired this report on August 5, 2005
Al-Arabiya reporter: In a film by the Al-Qaeda organization, excerpts of which are shown here in an Al-Arabiya exclusive, Al-Qaeda presents an ambush followed by an attack on an American army base in Kunar District in Afghanistan.
The film shows that the commander of the squad that carried out the operation is Abd Al-Hadi Al-Iraqi, who is also known as the Emir of the Arab Mujahideen in Afghanistan. He prepares a plan, using special squads from a number of countries. It is noteworthy that Al-Qaeda fighters from Britain, Ireland, France, and Pakistan, in addition to Arabs, speak in the film before the military operation.
Jihad fighter #1: [English] Oh people of the West, don't be fooled by the lies of Blair and Bush that you are free nations, for the only freedom that you have is the freedom to be slaves of your whims and desires.
Jihad fighter #2: [French] We the mujahideen swear, to all Muslims, the victims of unlimited and endless barbarism, that we will avenge their martyrs, and that we will slit the throats of the Americans and the Jews.
Jihad fighter #3: Come and join us. Join this blessed jihad. Come for the sake of Allah. Join us in this blessed jihad, with Mullah Omar and Sheik Osama bin Laden.
Al-Arabiya reporter: The film shows Al-Qaeda's military capabilities in producing explosives which were used in this operation. Then the Al-Qaeda fighters manage to break into the American army base, after American planes evacuated the wounded and the dead. The film shows documents the fighters took from a soldier's computer. In this computer were documents, military plans, and maps belonging to the military command of the American forces in Afghanistan.
(Bakr Atyani, Al-Arabiya, Islamabad.)
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 11:37 am |
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The Insyder wrote: Terrance wrote: Halvah may be an authority on Israel but he does not get to declare night day and day night. I wasn't attempting to smear. I'll leave that up to folks like you. I was expressing my anger at what was clearly an anti-Semetic statement.
Clearly only to you. If an Israeli Jew doesn't think so, why should you? Who is more believable.
Even you should be able to grasp this. Suppose I called someone a N****r and you called me on it. Then suppose I didn't respond but a black man did and he said it was not a racist comment. Would I then be off the hook? Does my use of that word not count because a black man said it didn't?
Totally irrelevant. A poor example in an attempt to bolster your opinion.
In order to be convincing you have to be able to present a rational arguement. You obviously can't do that.
Typical. Resort to insults.
As for "right wing religious types" that meant there are a lot of people who are "pro Israel" because they want to see the end of days and they are just rooting for the final showdown. They are supporting Israel so that it can get on with the final conflict. Not all Israelis share this desire for Armageddon.
So why bring that up?
Maybe you don't take offense at this kind of speech because you use it yourself. Whatever, I don't understand why Footloose can't speak for himself.
Why do you assume I use it myself? I don't understand either.
You understand nothing.
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The Insyder
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 03:03 am |
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Terrance wrote: Halvah may be an authority on Israel but he does not get to declare night day and day night. I wasn't attempting to smear. I'll leave that up to folks like you. I was expressing my anger at what was clearly an anti-Semetic statement.
Clearly only to you. If an Israeli Jew doesn't think so, why should you? Who is more believable.
Even you should be able to grasp this. Suppose I called someone a N****r and you called me on it. Then suppose I didn't respond but a black man did and he said it was not a racist comment. Would I then be off the hook? Does my use of that word not count because a black man said it didn't?
Totally irrelevant. A poor example in an attempt to bolster your opinion.
In order to be convincing you have to be able to present a rational arguement. You obviously can't do that.
Typical. Resort to insults.
As for "right wing religious types" that meant there are a lot of people who are "pro Israel" because they want to see the end of days and they are just rooting for the final showdown. They are supporting Israel so that it can get on with the final conflict. Not all Israelis share this desire for Armageddon.
So why bring that up?
Maybe you don't take offense at this kind of speech because you use it yourself. Whatever, I don't understand why Footloose can't speak for himself.
Why do you assume I use it myself? I don't understand either.
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 02:45 am |
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The Insyder wrote: Terrance wrote: Halvah is not the final authority on anything. There are a lot of right wing religious types who support Israel because they are hoping for the final showdown and the second coming.
"They never had to fight for anything ..." is still hanging out there. Why don't you just explain that?"
#1 - As a fairly newcomer, you do not know Halvah's history. He is more of an authority on Israel than you could even hope to be.
#2 - What does your comment on "right wing religious types" have to do with anything? To whom are you referring?
#3 - I think the guy explained himself. Stop nitpicking on a single word.
#4 - From what I read of your posts you do spin and smear whenever you can, particularly if one is a Republican or a conservative.
Admit it. Your poor attempt to smear backfired on you and you DID put your foot in your own mouth. Give it up already.
Halvah may be an authority on Israel but he does not get to declare night day and day night. I wasn't attempting to smear. I'll leave that up to folks like you. I was expressing my anger at what was clearly an anti-Semetic statement.
Even you should be able to grasp this. Suppose I called someone a N****r and you called me on it. Then suppose I didn't respond but a black man did and he said it was not a racist comment. Would I then be off the hook? Does my use of that word not count because a black man said it didn't?
In order to be convincing you have to be able to present a rational arguement. You obviously can't do that.
As for "right wing religious types" that meant there are a lot of people who are "pro Israel" because they want to see the end of days and they are just rooting for the final showdown. They are supporting Israel so that it can get on with the final conflict. Not all Israelis share this desire for Armageddon.
Maybe you don't take offense at this kind of speech because you use it yourself. Whatever, I don't understand why Footloose can't speak for himself.
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The Insyder
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Posted: Tue Aug 12th, 2008 02:22 am |
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Terrance wrote: Halvah is not the final authority on anything. There are a lot of right wing religious types who support Israel because they are hoping for the final showdown and the second coming.
"They never had to fight for anything ..." is still hanging out there. Why don't you just explain that?"
#1 - As a fairly newcomer, you do not know Halvah's history. He is more of an authority on Israel than you could even hope to be.
#2 - What does your comment on "right wing religious types" have to do with anything? To whom are you referring?
#3 - I think the guy explained himself. Stop nitpicking on a single word.
#4 - From what I read of your posts you do spin and smear whenever you can, particularly if one is a Republican or a conservative.
Admit it. Your poor attempt to smear backfired on you and you DID put your foot in your own mouth. Give it up already.
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Terrance
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Posted: Mon Aug 11th, 2008 09:27 pm |
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Footloose wrote: Terrance wrote: Footloose has an attorney. Okay. Here's the quote, "They never had to fight for anything ..." If you are old enough to remember how the Jews were accused of not fighting for our country during WWII, you might take issue with Footloose's statement. Footloose did not qualify this in any way.
What some Israeli Jews think of American Jews does not give anyone license to make anti-Semetic statements. The Jewish people have endured a lot throughout history. I'm for giving them a break occasionally.
I also remember like it was only yesterday - golly it was yesterday - when someone said that the Jews control this country and they only care about Israel.
Your client put his foot in his mouth. Sadly, he's not alone on this blog. It looks like Halvah put a damper on your attempted smear, Terrance. If you have read any on my past posts on Israel you will find that I am a supporter of them. And that remark about "Jews controlling this country" is another attempt to insinuate something that I have not said. Although there is one guy who posts here has that idea. Looks like you put your foot in your own mouth.
Halvah is not the final authority on anything. There are a lot of right wing religious types who support Israel because they are hoping for the final showdown and the second coming.
"They never had to fight for anything ..." is still hanging out there. Why don't you just explain that?
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Footloose
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Posted: Mon Aug 11th, 2008 09:23 pm |
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Terrance wrote: Footloose has an attorney. Okay. Here's the quote, "They never had to fight for anything ..." If you are old enough to remember how the Jews were accused of not fighting for our country during WWII, you might take issue with Footloose's statement. Footloose did not qualify this in any way.
What some Israeli Jews think of American Jews does not give anyone license to make anti-Semetic statements. The Jewish people have endured a lot throughout history. I'm for giving them a break occasionally.
I also remember like it was only yesterday - golly it was yesterday - when someone said that the Jews control this country and they only care about Israel.
Your client put his foot in his mouth. Sadly, he's not alone on this blog. It looks like Halvah put a damper on your attempted smear, Terrance. If you have read any on my past posts on Israel you will find that I am a supporter of them. And that remark about "Jews controlling this country" is another attempt to insinuate something that I have not said. Although there is one guy who posts here has that idea. Looks like you put your foot in your own mouth.
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Halvah
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 01:08 pm |
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Footloose wrote: Idaho Observer wrote: Wow. I heard that Jews are not fully trusting of Obama and the Democrats. So why do so many of them vote Democrat? How can anyone trust the Muslim mindset, especially the ultra-religious rulers of Iran, the Mullahs? American Jews are complacent and do not fully realize the situation in Israel. They are like most Democrats. They are conditioned into thinking that the government will take care of them. They never had to fight for anything and Israeli Jews do not think much of American Jews. American Jews send money to Israel to plant a tree and that is the extent of their involvement. Look at how the Democrats screw the blacks and yet, most of them vote Democrat. Same thing. America will learn too late about the influx of Muslims just the way England, Holland, germany and France did. Shalom and good afternoon to my Delaware USA friends. Firstly I agree with Mr.Bixby's assessment that there is no racism or Antisemitism from the two gentlemen above. After living my whole life with it, I feel that I can recognize it. I usually don't like to comment on internal political affairs of other countries such as presidential races but since the world see fit to comment on ours, let me offer a little insight about Israeli thought on your candidates.
Sharansky calls Obama "a risk" for Israel, as candidate panders to US Jews
By Israel Insider staff August 7, 2008
Israeli statesman Natan Sharansky said that Democrat Barack Obama said "all the right things which Israelis wanted to hear" on a recent visit to Israel. But he called Obama a risk because of his lack of a record and dubious experience. Sharansky, described by Shalom TV as "the world's most famous refusenik" -- after famously emigrating from a Soviet prison to Israel, he seved subsequently a minister in successive Israeli governments, and now is a distinguished fellow at the Shalem Center and is chairman of its Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies -- made his comments in a phone interview. He said Republican John McCain would be a more certain bet for Israel, but said that "the main decisions" about Israel's future belong to Israel. "In the case of McCain, we know exactly where his policy is," said Sharansky. "I know, personally, McCain for 20 years. He is a person of principle, and he's also a person who has absolutely a great record of supporting Israel. Getting to Obama, there is no record. Nobody can know for sure what will be. It can happen to be good. It can happen to be very bad. It's a risk."
Obama has recently posted a PDF document in an Israel section on his website -- few countries merit such in-depth treatment -- which talks about his plans and details what his campaign calls "a strong record of supporting the security, peace and prosperity of Israel." But more objective studies of his ultraliberal voting record actually put him among the bottom dwellers in terms of pro-Israel votes in the Senate, and comparisons of the candidates such as Haaretz's Rosner put him in last place in terms of perceived support for Israel.
Further pandering after the Jewish vote, the Obama campaign also sent a list of actions Obama has taken to support Israel in the U.S. Senate and the Illinois Senate. In May, when he was still running against fellow Democrat Hillary Clinton, Gallup found Obama winning Jewish voters 2-1 over McCain in what was then a hypothetical matchup. Still, subsequent polls and analysts have indicated that Obama is polling well below previous democrats, and his latest slide in the polls is not helping his standing among American Jews, especially as polls show plunging poll numbers on "trust" issues.
Although Obama's photo-op meet-and-greet visit helped his standing somewhat in Israel, his visit to the Palestinian Authority and the photo he took with West Bank chieftain Mahmoud Abbas under a photo of Yasser Arafat did not endear him to most US Jews. McCain still enjoys a comfortable lead in straw polls among Israelis, few of whom can vote, although the estimated 50,000 Israeli-Americans and is one of the highest concentration of US citizens abroad.
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Newshound
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 12:15 am |
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Iran faces—gasp—more sanctions Albert Einstein is famously said to have defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. He might have had a few choice words to say about the approach that the international community has chosen for dealing with Iran’s nuclear program. Last month the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and Germany (P5+1) offered Iran the latest in a long series of incentive packages, aimed at convincing the country to halt uranium enrichment and come clean about its nuclear program. Iran offered the same obfuscation it has given many times before, claiming it was willing to discuss further negotiations after the P5+1 clarified its response to Iran’s questions—whatever that means.
The Bush administration subsequently declared that the P5+1 were going to begin discussing a new round of sanctions to add to the four currently in place on Iran’s nuclear program (1696, 1737, 1747 and 1803). But then the Russians announced that, no, the P5+1 hadn’t agreed that more sanctions were needed, only that more diplomacy was in order. The Iranians must be laughing all the way to the bank. We have said it over and over again: Iran has no intention of stopping its pursuit of nuclear weapons, no matter how many UN sanctions are levied against it. Iran’s strategy since August 2003 has been to give the minimum acceptable appearance of cooperation and reasonableness, while dragging its feet at every opportunity. To their credit, the mullahs have executed this strategy brilliantly, making textbook use of the advantages to be had when a single rogue state negotiates with a group that must all agree before they can act.
Next week will mark five full years since Iran’s covert nuclear weapons program came to light, and what has changed in that time? Iran has demonstrated the ability to enrich uranium; it has installed and tested 3,000 centrifuges while announcing its intent to install 2,000 more; it has advanced the construction of its heavy water plant at Khondab; it has tested missiles with sufficient range to hit Israel; it has taken delivery of advanced Russian SA-15b anti-aircraft missiles; it has probably purchased even more advanced Russian SA-20 missiles; and it has not deviated an inch from its basic position of never yielding their “right” to a full nuclear program. Meanwhile, the UN does the only thing it knows how to do: dole out more sanctions—and hope for a different result.
PatriotPost.US <patriot-SK08207667@m1.PatriotPost.US>
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Terrance
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Posted: Sat Aug 9th, 2008 12:40 am |
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Jurisprudence wrote: Terrance wrote:Footloose, I assume you're not Jewish. I suspect some American Jews might question the basis for your statement/slander. Did you take some kind of poll or are you just resorting to anti-semitic stereotypes? Exactly what didn't the American Jews fight for? American Jews have served and died in all our wars. Actually this is not slander and there is some substance to what FL stated. Neither is this anti-Semitism. Bixby's post illustrates anti-Semitism as postuated by Hitler and adopted by the Grand Mufti. Firstly, all Jews worldwide are citizens of Israel as well as citizens of the country they reside in. Dual citizenship. Several countries grant dual citizenship to their citizens, most notably, Mexico. Considering the Jewish plight during and after the Holocaust, displaced Jews were encouraged to re-settle in Israel. It, for the most part, was unproductive desert so they undertook to make the land fruitful. Israelis became the world's experts on irrigation. Money was needed to plant trees and other foliage in the desert landscape. Jews worldwide contributed money for these plantings. The desert began to bloom. When five Arab nations decided to take up arms against Israel and invade, a worldwide call was put out for all Jews to defend their "homeland." Many cam and stayed and others chose to remain within their newly adopted countries. The fighters among Israelis ridiculed the non-combatants and hence the term, "A plant-a-tree in israel Jew."
Many Israeli Jews are critical of American Jews because other than reciting the phrase, "Never Again", few have done nothing other thanb to claim dual citizenship but without any further action other than lip service. The reference that Jews did not have to fight for anything was meant in the context of Israel. There is no anti-Semetic stereotyping in FL's post, however, if you look back in any topic on Israel or the Middle East, you will find that there is a minority these forums who unmistakably foster such thoughts. I hope this clarifies.
Footloose has an attorney. Okay. Here's the quote, "They never had to fight for anything ..." If you are old enough to remember how the Jews were accused of not fighting for our country during WWII, you might take issue with Footloose's statement. Footloose did not qualify this in any way.
What some Israeli Jews think of American Jews does not give anyone license to make anti-Semetic statements. The Jewish people have endured a lot throughout history. I'm for giving them a break occasionally.
I also remember like it was only yesterday - golly it was yesterday - when someone said that the Jews control this country and they only care about Israel.
Your client put his foot in his mouth. Sadly, he's not alone on this blog.
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Jurisprudence
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 11:23 pm |
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Terrance wrote:Footloose, I assume you're not Jewish. I suspect some American Jews might question the basis for your statement/slander. Did you take some kind of poll or are you just resorting to anti-semitic stereotypes? Exactly what didn't the American Jews fight for? American Jews have served and died in all our wars. Actually this is not slander and there is some substance to what FL stated. Neither is this anti-Semitism. Bixby's post illustrates anti-Semitism as postuated by Hitler and adopted by the Grand Mufti. Firstly, all Jews worldwide are citizens of Israel as well as citizens of the country they reside in. Dual citizenship. Several countries grant dual citizenship to their citizens, most notably, Mexico. Considering the Jewish plight during and after the Holocaust, displaced Jews were encouraged to re-settle in Israel. It, for the most part, was unproductive desert so they undertook to make the land fruitful. Israelis became the world's experts on irrigation. Money was needed to plant trees and other foliage in the desert landscape. Jews worldwide contributed money for these plantings. The desert began to bloom. When five Arab nations decided to take up arms against Israel and invade, a worldwide call was put out for all Jews to defend their "homeland." Many cam and stayed and others chose to remain within their newly adopted countries. The fighters among Israelis ridiculed the non-combatants and hence the term, "A plant-a-tree in israel Jew."
Many Israeli Jews are critical of American Jews because other than reciting the phrase, "Never Again", few have done nothing other thanb to claim dual citizenship but without any further action other than lip service. The reference that Jews did not have to fight for anything was meant in the context of Israel. There is no anti-Semetic stereotyping in FL's post, however, if you look back in any topic on Israel or the Middle East, you will find that there is a minority these forums who unmistakably foster such thoughts. I hope this clarifies.
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Terrance
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 07:53 pm |
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The Insyder wrote: While BF and T are berating Feet, I suggest you read Bixby's post which, I think, was in response to Feet's post.
Footloose's quote speaks for itself. Breathe. Remember to breathe.
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The Insyder
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 07:06 pm |
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While BF and T are berating Feet, I suggest you read Bixby's post which, I think, was in response to Feet's post.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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Footloose wrote: Idaho Observer wrote: Wow. I heard that Jews are not fully trusting of Obama and the Democrats. So why do so many of them vote Democrat? How can anyone trust the Muslim mindset, especially the ultra-religious rulers of Iran, the Mullahs? American Jews are complacent and do not fully realize the situation in Israel. They are like most Democrats. They are conditioned into thinking that the government will take care of them. They never had to fight for anything and Israeli Jews do not think much of American Jews. American Jews send money to Israel to plant a tree and that is the extent of their involvement. Look at how the Democrats screw the blacks and yet, most of them vote Democrat. Same thing. America will learn too late about the influx of Muslims just the way England, Holland, germany and France did.
There americans not Isralies. So what further involvment should they have then sending money to plant tress? they have a duty to America not israel. You love the place so much you go live there.
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Terrance
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 12:21 pm |
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Footloose wrote: Idaho Observer wrote: Wow. I heard that Jews are not fully trusting of Obama and the Democrats. So why do so many of them vote Democrat? How can anyone trust the Muslim mindset, especially the ultra-religious rulers of Iran, the Mullahs? American Jews are complacent and do not fully realize the situation in Israel. They are like most Democrats. They are conditioned into thinking that the government will take care of them. They never had to fight for anything and Israeli Jews do not think much of American Jews. American Jews send money to Israel to plant a tree and that is the extent of their involvement. Look at how the Democrats screw the blacks and yet, most of them vote Democrat. Same thing. America will learn too late about the influx of Muslims just the way England, Holland, germany and France did.
Footloose, I assume you're not Jewish. I suspect some American Jews might question the basis for your statement/slander. Did you take some kind of poll or are you just resorting to anti-semitic stereotypes? Exactly what didn't the American Jews fight for? American Jews have served and died in all our wars.
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Bixby
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 11:38 am |
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The specter of anti Semitism still oozes through US politics as it does in society in general. I can't answer as to why the dichotomy but a similar situation exists in Israel. Some Jews will support Ehud Ohlmert, a leftist pacifist, if you will, and some support Benjamin Netenyahu, a more hawkish conservative. The anti Jewish sentiment in America is a carryover from Nazi propaganda instigated by Hitler before the start of WWII and well received by Arabs via the efforts of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Many Americans harbored sympathy for the Muslim states when the State of Israel was instituted by the UN but many Americans, as well as those citizens of other nations, view it as the restoration of the nation of Israel. The propaganda has been so effective that it is a factor behind some of today's terrorism, particularly in the Middle East.
The historic Nazi connection to today's Islamic terrorism is Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. He became a Nazi agent after meeting Adolf Eichmann, an architect of the Holocaust, in the Palestine Mandate in 1937. With Nazi funds he organized the Arab Revolt of 1936-39 which led to the British stopping Jewish immigration to the Palestine Mandate. This facilitated the "Final Solution" by closing off the avenue of refuge. In 1941, the mufti orchestrated a short-lived, Nazi-backed generals' coup in Iraq.
The Iraq coup was followed by the Farhud, a pogrom against Baghdad's Jews, an event viewed by Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews as comparable to the German "Kristallnacht." The Mufti obtained Hitler's assurance in November 1941 that after dealing with the Jews of Europe, Hitler would treat the Jews of the Middle East similarly.
Last edited on Fri Aug 8th, 2008 11:39 am by Bixby
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Footloose
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Posted: Fri Aug 8th, 2008 03:57 am |
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Idaho Observer wrote: Wow. I heard that Jews are not fully trusting of Obama and the Democrats. So why do so many of them vote Democrat? How can anyone trust the Muslim mindset, especially the ultra-religious rulers of Iran, the Mullahs? American Jews are complacent and do not fully realize the situation in Israel. They are like most Democrats. They are conditioned into thinking that the government will take care of them. They never had to fight for anything and Israeli Jews do not think much of American Jews. American Jews send money to Israel to plant a tree and that is the extent of their involvement. Look at how the Democrats screw the blacks and yet, most of them vote Democrat. Same thing. America will learn too late about the influx of Muslims just the way England, Holland, germany and France did.
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Idaho Observer
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 06:44 pm |
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Wow. I heard that Jews are not fully trusting of Obama and the Democrats. So why do so many of them vote Democrat? How can anyone trust the Muslim mindset, especially the ultra-religious rulers of Iran, the Mullahs?
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Halvah
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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Racism in the Islamic World
How can peace prevail in the Middle East in the face of Islamic bigotry and hate? When will moderate Muslims speak out?
For years, the U.N., led by Islamic and Arab nations and their sympathizers, has accused Israel of racism, but the world consistently turns a blind eye to open, seething anti-Semitism in Islamic society.
What are the facts?
In one of the most astonishing propaganda coups ever, a United Nations conference on racism, which took place in Durban South Africa in 2001, declared that Zionism is racism. No wonder the U.S. and Israel walked out of the meeting, which was dominated by representatives of Islamic and Arab states and other anti-Israel forces, and whose conclusions were predictable from the outset.
The supreme irony of this conference was that it accused no other nation of racism—only Israel. In truth, Israel is perhaps the most racially and ethnically diverse and tolerant country in the world. More than half of Israel’s Jewish population consists of people of color—blacks from Ethiopia and Yemen, as well as brown-skinned people from Morocco, Iran, Syria, Egypt and Israel itself. In addition, Israel’s population includes more than one million Arabs, who enjoy the same civil rights as Jewish Israelis. In Israel hate speech is banned, and it is against the law to discriminate based on race or religion.
In contrast, anti-Semitism—a poisonous form of racism directed specifically against the Jewish people—is rampant in most all Islamic societies. Not only is anti-Semitism commonplace in Muslim nations, but it is propagated shamelessly by their leaders, in state-sponsored media, and by Muslim clergy.
For example, former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed declared in a 2003 speech to the Organization of Islamic Conference that, “today Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them.” Imagine if an American president had made a similarly sweeping and bigoted statement about blacks, Latinos or any other race—what a justifiable uproar, perhaps even an impeachment, would ensue. Yet there was no condemnation by the Muslim world of Mr. Mohamed’s comments. Rather, virtually all of the conference’s Muslim leaders actually voiced their approval.
In response to a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia in May 2004, Crown Prince Abdullah declared that “Zionism is behind [these] terrorist actions in the kingdom.” (Zionism is the code word often used by Islamic anti-Semites for Jews.) U.S. Congressman Tom Lantos called the Prince’s assertion “an outrage . . . blatant hypocrisy,” but Islamic leaders were silent. In fact, millions of Muslims still insist that Zionists were behind the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center.
Anti-Semitism is expressed so freely and ubiquitously in most Islamic societies that no citizen can escape it. During Ramadan in 2002, Egypt’s state-controlled TV aired “Horseman Without a Horse,” a program based on the notorious forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in which Jews allegedly use the blood of non-Jews to make Passover matzot. In Iran, a TV series, “Zahra’s Blue Eyes,” portrays “Zionists” kidnapping Palestinian children and harvesting their organs.
Perhaps nowhere is the hatred of Jews more virulent than among the Palestinians. Most perniciously, Palestinian children are taught in school that Jews are descended from apes and pigs and that the most noble thing they can do is to kill Jews. Muslim clerics like Imam Ibrahim Madiras, an employee of the Palestinian Authority, declared in a 2005 television sermon, “Jews are a cancer” and later that, “Muslims will kill the Jews . . . [and] rejoice in Allah’s victory.” No surprise, then, that the 1982 doctoral dissertation of Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas makes the astounding claim that “Zionists” collaborated with the Nazis to annihilate the Jewish people in order to drive the survivors to Palestine.
Anti-Semitism and the prospects for peace: Islamic anti-Semitism permeates the Arab Middle East and creates an atmosphere in which Jews are reviled and represented as subhuman. How can the Palestinian people embrace peace with a people represented by their religious and political leaders as dehumanized, evil beings? Even more importantly, how can Israel be expected to trust a so-called peace partner who expresses abject hatred and murderous intent toward Jews on a daily basis? Yet the U.S. and many European nations continue to demand that Israel make one-sided sacrifices for peace with a people steeped in racism and committed to its destruction.
Until Islamic leaders muster the integrity to relentlessly condemn anti-Semitism (and its evil twin, anti-Zionism), we can’t expect Israel to accept a forced peace with the Palestinians. Likewise, until moderate Muslims reject racism in all forms, they can’t expect Islam to enjoy full respect as a political and spiritual force among the world’s people.
“ Until Muslims reject racism in all forms, they can’t expect Islam to enjoy full respect as a political and spiritual force.”
Gerardo Joffe, FLAME
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Fred
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 02:38 am |
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| No, but there are more then two options when it comes to dealing with countries we don't like. Not sure why you have a problem with issues that you insist have to have two and only two courses of action.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 01:02 am |
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So if we adopt the Camberlain method of diplomacy this will all go away and we'll be happier and all will be well.
No thanks Fred.
Fred wrote:
EVERYBODY should stop interfering in the region....that is what is causing the issues. Our interference has taken twice as much oil out of the equation as we've got in ANWAR and off the coastal shelf...and they've got bigger reserves.
I am not a conspiracist, but when the adminstration has been rattling the sabers against Iran for a long time, there is an allegation that we've got SF in Iran trying to stir things up against the government AND reports of things like bombings and other disruptions that would be exactly the kind of things one would do to try to incite a reaction.....AND the fact that they don't want to leave Iraq in the hands of either McCain or Obama ( because they really don't trust McCain)....and it does give one pause.
Last edited on Sat Jul 5th, 2008 01:18 am by Playing the Game
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Halvah
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Posted: Sat Jul 5th, 2008 12:21 am |
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DEBKAfile’s military sources disclose that Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps have created a separate missile command, in which Syria’s missile force is to be integrated. The joint command was formalized in a new mutual defense treaty signed by the Syrian defense minister, Gen. Hassan Turkmani in Tehran last week.
Israeli military sources judge the operational merger of Iranian and Syrian missile corps to be a major strategic hazard to the Jewish state.
Western and Israeli military experts connect it with other indications that Iran’s program for developing missiles capable of delivering nuclear payloads has gone into high gear and reached an advanced stage. They believe the Iranians have beaten most of the technical difficulties holding it up.
On May 26, the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, which often goes easy on Iran, released a harsh report confirming Iran’s progress in “missile warhead design.”
The new missile command was cautiously announced last week by the IRGC commander, Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari. He said: “An independent command might be created in Sepah (IRGC) in order to fortify the structure and activities of the missile section.”
DEBKAfile’s Iranians sources explain Jafar’s cautious language on three grounds:
1. He was preparing Iran’s population and the Arab world for a pretty portentous development.
2. He was at pains not to put off figures in the West who argue strongly in favor of unconditional talks with Tehran over its nuclear misdeeds. He counted on those advocates shouting down the Western strategists who would appreciate the startling significance of the separate command.
3. Tehran also views Syria’s co-option and the new mutual defense treaty as a sort of guarantee that Assad’s “peace talks” with Israel will in no way detract from his military and other commitments to Iran.
DEBKAfile’s Iranian sources disclose that the details of the combined command were worked out ahead of the Syrian defense minister’s talks in Tehran: It was agreed that Syria’s missile units would come under the new independent Iranian missile section and their operations would be fully coordinated with Tehran. Iranian officers are to be attached to Syrian units and Syrian officers posted to the Iranian command.
In the interim, Hizballah’s rise to power in Beirut has brought Lebanon into the shared Syrian-Iranian orbit. This development has enabled Tehran to line up a row of missiles deployments of varying strengths from Iran, Syria and Lebanon and up to the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip – a missile array never before seen in the Middle East and a strategic menace most of Israel’s security leaders rate unacceptable.
Military experts comment that Tehran’s centralized control of four hostile missile fronts will virtually neutralize the American and Israeli anti-missile defense systems in the region; the Arrow and the Patriot missile interceptors could handle incoming missiles from one or maybe two directions – but not four.
DEBKAfile’s military sources report that Israel’s armed forces have been working overtime, against repeated holdups, to get the third Arrow battery installed. It is to be deployed in northern Israel as a shield against Syrian ballistic missiles and Iranian missiles stationed in Syria.
The formation of the joint Iranian-Syrian missile command has slowed the project down. It calls for modifications in the Arrow’s deployment to meet the fresh challenge and a time-consuming study by US and Israeli intelligence specialists of how the new command structure functions. Western military sources doubt the Arrow system will be up and running by this summer, a period considered critical by military observers.
They discount as over-optimistic recent claims by Israeli officials that the new Iron Dome will be ready for operational testing against short-range missiles in the next year or two.
In a related development, DEBKAfile’s Gulf sources report that next week, Iran’s supreme ruler Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Syrian president Bashar Assad launch a major campaign to further isolate American influence and bludgeon moderate Arab governments into alignment with their extreme anti-US, anti-Israel line.
Assad sets out Sunday, June 1, for the United Arab Emirates for talks with Sheikh KHalifa bin Zayed al-Nahayan in Abu Dhabi. Tuesday, he spends two days in Kuwait. The visits were set up by the Qatar ruler Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, who spent Friday, May 30, in Assad’s palace, gathering compliments for the Doha accord he mediated which solved Lebanon’s political crisis by installing a national unity government in Beirut dominated by Hizballah.
The Qatari ruler, Assad and Khamenei have joined forces to use the Lebanon accord as an object lesson to teach Arab governments that they do not need the United States or Saudi Arabia to help them manage their problems.
This message was relayed in Iran foreign minister Manouchehr Mottaki’s arrogant statement in Stockholm Friday. He said: “The United States of America needs a serious review of its foreign policy towards the Middle East. These policies in… Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and generally speaking in the Middle East are mistaken policies.”
DEBKAfile’s political sources point out that these reverses are piling up against the United States and Israel at the worst time possible: both governments are hobbled - Washington in the dying days of the Bush administration, and Israel, by the grave corruption allegations against prime minister Ehud Olmert which have placed him and the other two senior policy-makers, the defense and foreign ministers, at loggerheads.
(From the DEBKA File - Posted by Halvah)
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Fred
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 05:50 pm |
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EVERYBODY should stop interfering in the region....that is what is causing the issues. Our interference has taken twice as much oil out of the equation as we've got in ANWAR and off the coastal shelf...and they've got bigger reserves.
I am not a conspiracist, but when the adminstration has been rattling the sabers against Iran for a long time, there is an allegation that we've got SF in Iran trying to stir things up against the government AND reports of things like bombings and other disruptions that would be exactly the kind of things one would do to try to incite a reaction.....AND the fact that they don't want to leave Iraq in the hands of either McCain or Obama ( because they really don't trust McCain)....and it does give one pause.
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Idaho Observer
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 04:53 pm |
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| Maybe Ron Paul ought to tell Iran to cease being so agressive in the region. Israel has the absolute right to defend itself. Iran has intefered with Lebanon by assasinations, purging of the Maronite Christians from Lebanon's southern area and establishing a Islamic conclave, exerting undue influence on Syria, smggling arms into the Gaza strip via Egypt, and placing medium range rockets capable of nuclear warheads targeting almost all cities in Israel. Iran eagerly waits for us to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan so they can establish their bases there. Iran is big-time trouble just like Hitler was during the 30's. Iran, for the most part, is being ignored just like Hitler was. Strange thing is that the same anti-Jewish sentiment that was back then is also now.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Mon Jun 30th, 2008 09:03 pm |
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Congressman Ron Paul's warning
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/280608Paul.htm
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Newshound
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Posted: Fri Jun 27th, 2008 10:26 pm |
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Warfront with Jihadistan: Israel v. Iran
When it absolutely, positively has to be taken out overnight... The Israeli Air Force recently conducted an unusually large strike exercise, reportedly flying 100 F-15 and F-16 jets to a bombing range in Greece. The distance to the Greek range just happened to be virtually identical to the distance required to reach Natanz, in west-central Iran, the location of Iran’s uranium enrichment facility. The media learned of and publicized the exercise in very short order, almost certainly as the Israelis desired. The Israelis’ goal was to remind Iran that there is more than one way to stop a nuclear program.
The Israelis likely intended the exercise to influence the United States and the United Nations nearly as much as Iran, and in this the Israelis clearly succeeded. Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s Defense Minister, openly warned Israel against attacking Iran, saying there is no proof of an Iranian weapons program. Meanwhile, Mohammad El Baredei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the organization that has done more than anyone to enable the current crisis, warned that an Israeli attack could turn the Middle East into “a ball of fire.” He also warned that if any country attacked Iran, he would take his Nobel Prize and go home, resigning as head of the IAEA. That would provide at least one happy outcome to this otherwise deadly serious issue.
Former UN Ambassador John Bolton added fuel to the fire this week, speculating during an interview that Israel could attack Iran’s nuclear program during the period between the November election and the end of the Bush administration in January. Bolton mentioned one factor that may be even more pressing on Israel than Iran’s nuclear program itself: Russia’s impending shipment of SA-20 surface-to-air missiles to Iran, a delivery expected to take place later this year. The SA-20 would be a quantum leap over Iran’s existing SA-5 and SA-6 systems, and its high-altitude, long-range coverage would complement the shorter range SA-15b missiles that Russia delivered to Iran last year.
patriot-SK08207667@m1.PatriotPost.US
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Cobra
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 02:04 am |
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| Very nice of you Fred, not to condone rocket attacks but these guys are constantly at it and have been behind every agreement made, usually by some sort of military action. Israel constantly hangs on by a very thin thread. They bear the expense of supplying the Gaza strip with humanitarian aid, water, elecrtricity, food and medicine. This is a high cost to Israel. To show that the claim that Israel controls the world and the money therein is idiot propaganda, the fact remains that over 1.5 million Israelis live below the poverty level. A guy in my company just came back from spending a few months on business in Israel. Little known is the fact that Israel now leads the Western World in child poverty. About 714,000 children in Israel lack the basic essentials we all take for granted... food, clothing, decent housing, medicine and all the rest. Families are being evicted, elderly women rummage in garbage bins, work is hard to find. Because of the constant Arab attacks, most benefits have been slashed for the poorest and most helpless in Israeli society...single parents, abused children, the disabled and the elderly. Israel is basically a socialist democracy out of necessity rather than choice. They pay high taxes for defense and defense related expenditures.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 02:00 am |
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| Fred - They've had 2,000 years of war, 50 more is less than we currently have in Korea.
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 01:57 am |
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While I don't condone the rocket attack...why don't you mention what precipitated the attack?
There have been very few lasting peaces that did not have a few false starts along the way. Whi | | |