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CR Voter
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 01:10 am |
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Since you are obviously not a dead beat, it shouldn't really matter to you. Investors and Traders are the only ones on the edge. We'll all take a little hit, but the smart money will survive. The smart money actually survived the depression.
Ask Kennedy..........................................
Game_Over2007 wrote:
Voter don't forget we have other issues besides traders here. Big concern is the insurers of "debt" and right now considering two of the biggest insurers have lost over 70 percent of their value, they have no way of covering some of the 450 billion dollars of mortgage debt. This will be an issue soon enough. Maybe the good old boy from the FED will have answers for that too? You can't hide this debt and write downs forever. The banks want their money to cover their losses or is that write downs? I seem to get those two confused.
Damn if I don't feel like paying my electric bill next month, I may just say I'll just write it down and say the hell with it. Think that will work? Will I still have to pay it? 
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Observant
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 11:41 pm |
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| Game_over --- yep, that will definitely work! Now if you choose to do that, you may be required to relocate to another address where a different utility company provides service if you want to continue to have access to electricity.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 11:34 pm |
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Voter don't forget we have other issues besides traders here. Big concern is the insurers of "debt" and right now considering two of the biggest insurers have lost over 70 percent of their value, they have no way of covering some of the 450 billion dollars of mortgage debt. This will be an issue soon enough. Maybe the good old boy from the FED will have answers for that too? You can't hide this debt and write downs forever. The banks want their money to cover their losses or is that write downs? I seem to get those two confused.
Damn if I don't feel like paying my electric bill next month, I may just say I'll just write it down and say the hell with it. Think that will work? Will I still have to pay it?
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Bixby
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 11:27 pm |
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Americans Enslaved – It's Mathematically Impossible to Repay all Debt.
It's a fact; since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, all banks in these United States create money out of thin air for every single loan they issue.
With never-ending late fees, over-the-limit fees and higher and higher interest rates, it has become mathematically impossible to repay all debt, making all of us slaves to our creditors.
The Federal Debt Relief System has created a successful, attorney-backed program to legally eliminate credit card debt, personal loans, lines of credit and other unsecured debts, which have been fraudulently created by the banks.
We can terminate your unsecured debt within 18 months, with a much lower monthly payment, ending with nothing on your credit report.
Join the thousands of Americans who now breathe a sigh of relief because they have legally eliminated their debt. Instead of living each day in fear and frustration, it's time to take action, and turn your life around.
Call the Federal Debt Relief System at 877-943-8600 that's 877-943-8600, or visit http://www.FDRS.org. Find out how you can break the cycle of debt slavery. Visit http://www.FDRS.org today
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CR Voter
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 10:33 pm |
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So other than the doom and gloom trading at the open, the market seemed to settle down and realize that the sky didn't fall.
Amazing how well the European markets did today isn't it.
Just another day of traders watching too much TV and not enough numbers.
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CR Voter
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 11:31 am |
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| The European Markets seem to be trading higher for the day today. The Asian Markets were vastly overblown for the past 2 years. They needed a big correction.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 10:30 am |
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Just FYI..... enjoy
http://www.tsptalk.com/comments.html
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 08:41 am |
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Well the BLOOD Bath has arrived and now we see how it all plays out.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/18/news/economy/cure.fortune/index.htm
All the foreign markets are down big at this hour and the Hang Seng has lost over 2000 points over night. GLOBAL PAIN AT ITS BEST AND SURE HOPE THESE BANKS GET THE MESSAGE. THE GAME IS OVER...... GREED LOST 
Last edited on Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 08:45 am by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2008 01:22 am |
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Yeah, they did their thing, based our our thing on Friday, which in reality means squat since the runup for the past year was based on unfounded optimism.
The economy is still basically sound and manufacturing is holding and growing. Screw the banks.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 11:28 pm |
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So goes life... Those of you who were greedy will pay now... No brainer... Just take it and move on... Tomorrow could be a real challenge for the markets considering the foreign markets already did their thing...
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/21/news/international/europe_econcrisis.ap/index.htm
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Kirk
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 05:58 pm |
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There are several issues underlying the recent credit market fiasco.
Back in the early 70s, credit card interest rates were heavily regulated to a fairly low number. The bank only lent money to people that could really afford to borrow and repay. With higher interest rates, loans could be made to progressively higher risk individuals. These higher rates were starting to appear in the real estate market.
Sub-prime lenders include such stodgy-old-guard institutions - Citi for example. I do not have the link to the numbers, but their average home mortgage interest rate was something close to 15%. If standard 30-year-loans were at 6% and were over half of their mortgage loans, then the sub-prime loans had to carry a 25-30% interest rate. Clearly, a large proportion of these loans were going to go into default, just like credit cards with similar rates.
Banks appear to have not been satisfied with the number of loans they were selling, so they packaged their loans and sold them to brokers. The banks pocketed the short-term gain and left it to the buyers to worry about the quality of the loans they were buying. What some of them did not appear to realize is that their own banks were the ones buying these packages. While this gave a short-term cash flow to the mortgage division to make more loans, it exposed the overall financial institution to increased risks.
The rules governing these activities have been in the works for more than 30 years. This is not a one-time-asleep-at-the-switch train wreck. This is an institutional failure at many levels. I blame the judges in the 70s who allowed the credit card industry to charge ridiculous rates as much as I blame the current administration (or any previous). Blame is not going to solve this - acknowledging the complex nature of this failure at many different institutional levels is just the first step to trying to fix the system so that it is less likely to happen again.
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 05:47 pm |
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I'd have to see the figures, CR, but the resets that are causing most of the issues now are probably a result of mortgages taken in the past 7 years or less. I agree that money probably flowed out of stocks and into real estate...I'd also say it was related to the fact that too often a little is not enough. When I was a very young boy, you KNEW that there were certain "safe" investments. These were your utility stocks, bonds...but this was also in an era where the term "blue chip" actually meant something.
I think greed is at the core of it, and you have to look at the long run up in technology as at least part of the problem. People grew to expect year after year of returns, especially in formerly regulated industries like communications. Heck, if Bell can use Lucent to make billions, wouldn't it also work on every other regulated industry?
I don't doubt that the big bankers benefitted the most, but speculators and real estate flippers made it look easy in the beginning....and the poor schmuck who is barely hanging on is led to believe that his troubles can be waved away with a refinanced loan based on ever-increasing real estate rates. I am not sure what policies GWB had; you want to argue that he was too hands off, you may have a point, but I recall very few people waving the red flag BEFORE it started. Sure, afterwards everybody says they knew it was coming, but these warnings came too late.
However, I do say that our economy provides opportunities even in the worst of times. As I said earlier, it may well be the time to position one for buying in the real estate market...and I am betting that if you want to borrow money AND you have pretty good credit, the banks will be beating a path to your door.
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CR Voter
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 05:15 pm |
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As a matter of fact (and you anti-Bush folks don't like to deal with fact), the housing and motgage surge with interest only loans and sub-prime lending, began to flourish under the Clinton Administration. When the NASDAQ bubble exploded on his watch, the greedy money turned to real estate.
I found this article quite interesting, since if you replace NASDQ with Real Estate, it sounds like the same thing.
"The bubble burst and billions of dollars suddenly disappeared into a tag cloud of smoke. Companies went bankrupt, houses were lost, equipment was repossessed and the license to print money so many had predicted was revoked.
The dotcom bubble had burst… but why? How could so many have gotten it so wrong?
As with any catastrophe of this scope it wasn’t caused by one single event, there were many contributing factors that built up into the collapse that was so spectacularly witnessed in such a short timeframe.
The problem began with the ‘bubble’ building to astronomical size at an alarming rate. Investors were pouring money into dotcom start-ups at a far quicker and less measured way than they would a regular business. The novelty factor of the dotcom industry played a part in this, as did the imaginings of a global marketplace. It was a new technology, and fear of being left behind led to overspend. It became impossible to accurately value the companies sprouting up, causing them to be grossly overvalued – which made for some very rich people, on paper at least."
Legends457 wrote:
Fred quit trying to say its not related to GWB for God's sake. All this happened on his watch with his policies relating to the financial banks lending money. Who in hell do you think gave those tax breaks and Carte Blanche to the banks to do what they did? I think your just in a dream world where nobody is accountable and everybody is goody goody two shoes. Wake up.
Last edited on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 05:24 pm by
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:50 pm |
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| Some of you just don't get it and never will. Everything I told you is happening and now its just a matter of time. Nobody can fix it! So sit in denial and make sure you have money on the side to cover your needs. I tell it like it is because its reality! I don't live in a dream world where those failures in conservative values rule my way of life. It's better to think for yourself so you can relate to the situations you have to deal with in you're everyday life. Last edited on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:52 pm by Game_Over2007
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Legends457
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:37 pm |
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| Fred quit trying to say its not related to GWB for God's sake. All this happened on his watch with his policies relating to the financial banks lending money. Who in hell do you think gave those tax breaks and Carte Blanche to the banks to do what they did? I think your just in a dream world where nobody is accountable and everybody is goody goody two shoes. Wake up.
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:18 pm |
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GO...If you read anywhere else, you will see that I am no fan of GWB. However, can you tell me what he could have done to stop this? What we had was an industry that pretty much did it to themselves by ignoring their own rules that were set up to keep them solvent. This was also not a problem that developed overnight; greed (on the part of both the bankers and those who borrowed the money) was gradual, in that the acceptable standards kept dropping.
Like the stock market bubble of the 90s, as long as things keep going, everbody is happy. It is when the merry-go-round stops that everybody gets all-knowing.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:05 pm |
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| I knew this was brewing when the train left the station and nobody listened. We now pay the price for all our mistakes. We have an INCOMPETENT FED with a CLOWN sitting in the White House who has a long track record for failures. Seven years worth of FAILURE. They can't fix this financial disaster coming and it will have to run it's course. A lot of people will get hurt and all those banks of greed will have to fire more of their so called experts. The overseas markets are selling off as I thought they would Friday. Margin calls and profit taking to get out while they can and Europe is finding some more roaches in the woodwork with some of their banks again. This is the worse it's been though and tomorrow I do think we'll see a lot of red going forward. Life can be a real bitch huh? Last edited on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 01:10 pm by Game_Over2007
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Legends457
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 11:57 am |
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Here is the video clip of Cramer on the Mortgage Insurers....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-TwsvX4q4
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2008 10:07 am |
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Well the overseas markets are tanking and I guess between a little profit taking and margin calls biting their sorry asses we'll have to see how it plays out here tomorrow when the markets open again....
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-22395123.htm
Last edited on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 10:17 am by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2008 01:09 pm |
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When first we practice to deceive, Oh what a tangled web we weave. I completely agree with the nightmare part and would add a quaigmire to the mix.
Game_Over2007 wrote:
...... The old rules of buying a home we're never applied. So its a nightmare in my opinion.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2008 12:10 pm |
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Just some food for thought..... finding specific fore-closure breakdowns by groups or areas of the country seems to be a monumental task in nature based on the unique economic shortfalls for each area... I'm seeing each geographic area with different degrees of issues. Miami is different than Las Vegas for one and the other interesting thing is in those areas we have more speculators or "flippers" gone under so that makes me wonder. How much is tied to that issue I can't seem to find an answer for but I'm sure they make up a huge part of this short term flip cycle gone bad. We had a lot of so called "new investors" doing this fine art of "flipping" and most got their sorry asses burned with their greed. So I do think this has to wash itself out in the interim and then we'll see more factual numbers going forward. This all has become a major nightmare with a web of deceit among those in the know. I do think this melt-down will run its course and we'll pay for all this for the next five years at least. I'm not sure we can find what we want to know Voter? The giving out of mortgages by those in the know created this mess. The old rules of buying a home we're never applied. So its a nightmare in my opinion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/09/AR2008010903669.html
http://www.phil.frb.org/files/br/br_q3-2006-3_residential_mortgage.pdf
http://www.communityinvestmentnetwork.org/single-news-item/lexis-single-news-item/article/mortgages-adjustable-loans-spur-new-worries-defaults-are-climbing-among-option-arms-many-require-1/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=43&cHash=4761c58eb9
Last edited on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 12:40 pm by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 10:07 pm |
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| I understand the effect on the financials. I want tosee the demographic on who the consumers are that are effected by the mortgage crunch. I think it is the overextended, and those who never should have received credit in the first place. Most of solid America is not in trouble with their mortgage.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:29 pm |
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In the mean time Voter, check this out and as you can see those downgrades tell a a story......
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDGXpSoaRmAo
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 09:36 pm by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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GO if I didn't respect your views I wouldn't argue with you. I promise not to become your butt bud and drink your beer. At least when I argue with you I have to think. I have little faith in Washington, but I do believe if you let the people have more of their own money they will do wonderful things with it.
I would like to see a good demographic on the folks who are belly up in the Housing and mortgage crunch. No one seems to be willing to produce it. Maybe since you have so much spare time on your hands and I'm stuck in the grind of working full time, you could put to together a perspective on the crunched ones for us to discuss.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 08:10 pm by
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 07:22 pm |
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Well Voter I do hope your right, but I have to take the other side of this issue and I know we do not agree on most things but I do respect your views. Again remember we are not "friends" and I still enjoy getting on your last nerve! It's my nature and I don't ever take a prisoner. They cost to much to feed.
Getting back to the issue, I don't like the disconnect between the White House, FED and the real economy. Something tells me the bond insurers are going to be held accountable and its not going to be a pretty picture when all the cards fall. The write downs (losses) have to be covered no matter what those BANKS say and then the real issues start.
http://manonthestreet64.blogspot.com/2007/12/bond-insurers-in-trouble.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0D9163EF932A05753C1A964958260
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/27/news/companies/benner_bond_insurers.fortune/index.htm
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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Isn't it amazing how Congress is hell bent on getting more money in the hands of the people to spend the economy through the current cyclical downturn. It has proven its' worth in the past and I'm willing to try it again.
Since the Dems were so reluctant to make tax cuts permanent and the Republicans didn't have the balls to stand by their principles, they are now stuck bowing to the wishes of the President.
The housing and mortgage debacle is the fault of greedy lenders and builders. I have no sympathy for them or the fools that drank the kool-aid.
Let's see how it turns out in 6 months. I'm betting on the Bush plan.
Game_Over2007 wrote:
It's really funny seeing the masters of knowledge hiding in the background now. You can't help but think how stupid they must feel as their great leader in the White House has taken this country to the brink of financial disaster! Most pundits of the conservative right wing are basically stupid when it comes to dealing with reality and family values.
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Angel1965
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:32 pm |
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| Wow Voter.... cute comeback! Lets see where you stand in the realm of reality about to unfold in the next few weeks. I bet you have mutual funds and a comfort zone you think is going to carry you through all this if it does unfold like most think will happen, you will have some concerns. You did say you had a 30 yr mortgage and I find that ironic that your so conservative and so secure with all your worth because their something missing in all this don't you think? You seem to never admit failure considering your one of the know it alls on this Reality Forum. I bet things are different and the crying towels are hanging there for you as you wonder what is coming next. Your debt and ability to pay your debt will be challenging and no matter what you say here, I don't buy it. The Angel of Death knows
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Legends457
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:02 pm |
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Well everything this man said is playing out MR CR VOTER.... Guess GO called it right and maybe more is coming........ hope you have your finances in order......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWksEJQEYVU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Slge1shuao
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:12 pm by Legends457
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 11:29 am |
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It's really funny seeing the masters of knowledge hiding in the background now. You can't help but think how stupid they must feel as their great leader in the White House has taken this country to the brink of financial disaster! He has proved one thing, he is the sorry ass I thought he always was and will go down in history as the worse President this country has ever had beating out Jimmy Carter!
The Wall Street Wall of Worry is no more! It has become the Wall of Nightmares and with our banking sectors intricate intertwined web of corruption, deceit, greed and never-ending lies we will finally test the fate of our markets in the coming weeks. If the four major insurers of mortgage debt go under because of their inability to back mortgage debt with their ties to this nightmare you will see what has been predicted and more. The Dow index could lose over 2000 points as other indexes will follow with proportionate losses.
Yesterday was a joke with the BUSH TEAM of Deceit speaking before the American people with a "to late" no merit stimulus package to do nothing. Only in America can you have a White House run like the ENRON corporation! This man is beyond belief anymore. Unbelievable! BUSH wrote the book on stupidity and it just makes you wonder how in hell he ever made it this far in life.
People are paying a price for their wants and needs they couldn't afford. Those big four wheel drive gas hogs, boats, swimming pools along with all those other things you just had to have and now you can't pay for! It's funny! Unfortunately a lot of people will lose everything as this all runs its course. Some call this a modern day depression. I guess you can call it what ever you want but it all revolves around being stupid and letting others take you down this financial path of disaster. Nobody knew what the end result would be considering they were to stupid to see it coming.
Maybe some of you can relate to the "duh mode" of life. You kept your heads in the sand for the last seven years with your hero in the White House. Most pundits of the conservative right wing are basically stupid when it comes to dealing with reality and family values. They promote greed for all those at the top and always maintain the theory of "whats in it for me" attitude. So you live by your ways and you will fail as the BUSH administration has done so well over the last seven years. Truth hurts but reality tells the tale. Its time to pay the PIPER folks so get ready for the pain to come. Remember to smile and have a good day.
Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 12:42 pm by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:13 am |
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| You only pay if you're in debt. Guess that covers you since you complain so much.
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Legends457
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:10 am |
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| Seen that interview on television just now. Those mortgage insurance companies insuring the big banks really blew it. Why don't they just call "write downs" what they really are LOSSES! These financial politicians can be creative when they all want to down play failures. Now we all pay for their greed and failures.
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 01:07 am |
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| Whoopee. Fortunately the Dow doesn't rule my life or my portfolio. Obviously it matters to you since you and Mr. Doom & Gloom follow it so closely.
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Angel1965
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 12:41 am |
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| Just making money Voter. People do that you know considering the economy is going down the toilet and your boy in the white house hasn't got a clue. Sad as it is others do know whats going on and its going to be more than you all can handle if your in debt. The insurers of the all these sub prime mortgages have a 450 billion dollar tab to pay and they don't have the money, so guess who goes out of business? The DOW can sink 2000 points at the blink of an eye and that could happen in the next three weeks. Interesting huh? Last edited on Sat Jan 19th, 2008 12:42 am by Angel1965
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 10:08 am |
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| Options expire today.... lets see how many "puts" go forward betting on the disaster train moving down the line of reality....
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 10:01 am |
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It doesn't make any difference what those losers in Congress and the village idiots sitting in the White House do today or any day there after because its to LATE! I've been telling you all what was going down and everyone down played it just like those in the know on Wall Street. While they were telling you not to worry, most of those same people pumping those "fuzzy math" numbers were sneaking out the back door with your money and now their right back opening up a new venue to get more from you. You can't fix this disaster on the horizon folks. TO MANY people got sucked into this credit mess and now you have to let it run its course and the sad part is many will go down and its not going to be pretty. Maybe you can thank your local "builders" here like the yahoos that developed Newels Creek and the green pipe farm behind Lowe's south of Camden. No money down and MOVE IN NEXT WEEK! Yeppers a great way to sell your homes slowly going into fore-closure! Now those same people are seeing their big SUV's and other luxury cars repossessed too! Just a trend all over the country and this is just the beginning of the dooms day scene I've been warning you about. You don't see those yahoos on here anymore preaching how great things are under George W Bush do you? Where did all those right wingers go? Maybe to get another job so they can pay their monthly expenses and try to survive. Another day coming and the falling knife is gaining speed.
Remember to smile today..... Its Friday and more fun on Wall StreetLast edited on Fri Jan 18th, 2008 10:25 am by Game_Over2007
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 02:41 am |
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I am not sure a stimulus package is going to do that much good, but I guess they feel the need to try...as well as using it as an excuse to ram through their pet programs. I fault both sides for this; the attempt to make the tax cuts permanent may or may not make sense, but I can't see how extending something that we already have is going to provide any additional stimuli. I am equally suspicious of giving x amount to SS receipients as well, although I am pretty sure that money will get right back into the economy, but it seems like a bribe to me....and one that they would certainly push to make permanent.
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CR Voter
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 01:21 am |
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| I'm way beyond that dear. Sorry you woke up.
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Angel1965
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:36 pm |
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| Angel of Death........ better start saving money and have at least six months of cash on hand....
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 10:19 pm |
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| The problem you also have is the commercial real estate market which is now showing signs of cracking and so here we are again. How many professional buildings do you need? Residential real estate inventories are at levels that the economy can't deal with now. We are in a recession no matter what those fuzzy math macro numbers tell the pundits in the know. The credit markets have to work this out and their will be causalities beyond your wildest imagination. The banks and wall street created this mess, now they have to fix it. Artificial life support can't fix it and don't bet on a stimulus package to help anybody except those sorry asses that created this mess.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 07:19 pm |
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http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2008/01/16/why-baby-boomers-may-bust-the-housing-market/
Basic point of the article is that the housing market may find it difficult to recover in a lot of areas for quite a while as baby boomers start to retire in force in 2011, and either want to downsize their homes, move to assisted living facilities, or move to Florida.
Now, I have a few issues with this...namely the assumption that this generation is like the last one in regards to wanting to downsize or move into a nursing home at 65. As has been pointed out already, this generation will tend to want to hang on a bit longer in the workforce, the primary thing being that they can do it. There is also an upside in that some housing prices (smaller homes that are closer to services...ie, homes in the city, perhaps) may well go up in price. The point remains, however, that we may be beyond the band-aid stage, and may be in for a real shake up in our economy.....no matter who is in charge
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:40 am |
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Just one more thing for the viewers and "nay sayers" of what I've been preaching for the last year or so. Think about what this all says for the "banks" you all thought we're your friends....
http://www.co.schuylkill.pa.us/Offices/Sheriff/SheriffsSaleFebruary15-2008.pdf
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:30 am |
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| The futures are up and maybe some more "dumb money" will jump in the today but tomorrow its "options expirations" so we'll see how many have brass balls to stay the course. More downside to come. S&P 500 needs to drop more and maybe go to 1250 for a real bottom. Last edited on Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:30 am by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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Fred its amazing to see people stepping up to the plate still wanting to buy and move up with regards to their homes. I don't know how far you are from those retirement years but going into retirement you need to position yourself with no "debt" and that issue can't be compromised. I retired early and I planned well for my retirement based on the investments I had and paying off the three homes that I own. I've been lucky and I do feel sorry for those out there who are really trying to make it work but the sad part is we have a culture of greed and those real estate brokers in our area pushed their never-ending "BS" to the limits when they catered to the influx of retirees coming from New Jersey and the other surrounding states with their greedy practices driving up prices to a level thats not "real". Housing prices will depreciate at least seven percent this year and probably another seven percent next year. This mess is not going away anytime soon and if these other issues related to the derivative credit markets starts to surface, we'll have that nightmare others don't want to talk about and you wont ever hear any of those idiots on FOX Noise talk about it for sure.
Scenario: Credit card debt being hedged?
A possible situation where the financial markets plunge into chaos if the massive derivatives positions owned by hedge funds and the large banks were to move against those parties.
Institutional investors have increasingly used derivatives to either hedge their existing positions, or to speculate on given markets or commodities. The growing popularity of these instruments is both good and bad because although derivatives can be used to mitigate portfolio risk. Institutions that are highly leveraged can suffer huge losses if their positions move against them.
A number of well-known hedge funds have imploded in recent years as their derivative positions declined dramatically in value, forcing them to sell their securities at markedly lower prices to meet margin calls and customer redemptions. One of the largest hedge funds to collapse in recent years as a result of adverse movements in its derivatives positions was Long Term Capital Management (LTCM).
Investors use the leverage afforded by derivatives as a means of increasing their investment returns. When used properly, this goal is met. However, when leverage becomes too large, or when the underlying securities decline substantially in value, the loss to the derivative holder is amplified. The term "derivatives time bomb" relates to the speculation that the large number of derivatives positions and increasing leverage taken on by hedge funds and investment banks could lead to an industry-wide meltdown.
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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Do you think that an upcoming recession, while bad for some, will provide some opportunities for others?
I'm not rooting for one, nor do I think the American business climate or the average American person is in a position to take advantage of it....but don't you think there will be some winners?
For instance....I've been in my house for almost 20 years, and am thinking of moving (sorry, guys, it will still be in the area). I know my house has gone up in value...maybe it has lost some, and it might lose a bit more, but so will the houses I was thinking of moving up to...probably more so, in fact. If someone has invested relatively conservatively, they should be in a good position to take advantage of some deals, right?
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Legends457
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 11:57 am |
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This happened overnight........ more down side coming for sure.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080116/world_markets.html
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 09:40 am |
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| WELL I GUESS I TOLD YOU SO IS ALL THE GAME HAS TO SAY TODAY. READ THE FINANCIALS AND WEEP TODAY. GET YOUR CRYING TOWELS OUT BECAUSE THE NEXT TWO QUARTERS WILL TELL THE TALE ! SELLING YOUR SOULS TO THE DEVIL PAID OFF ? REAL ESTATE BUBBLE AND NOW GREEN PIPE FARMS WITH NO HOMES BEING BUILT. OH YEAH IT WILL ALL TURN AROUND. NOT FOR A LONG TIME FOLKS BECAUSE THE PUNDITS OF KNOWLEDGE SOLD YOU OUT AND NOW ITS THEIR TURN TO PAY THE DEVIL. BET SOME OF THESE YAHOO DEVELOPERS AND REAL ESTATE MAGGOTS WISH THEY WERE SOME PLACE ELSE NOW. GREED HAS ITS WAY AT TIMES... HAHAHA.... ONLY IN AMERICA CAN THIS BE.....
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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COUNTRYWIDE CEO.... A REAL AMERICAN CLASS ACT...... EXPOSED FOR THE THIEF HE REALLY IS....
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/11/news/newsmakers/countrywide_mozillo/index.htm?postversion=2008011118
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CockRoachKiller
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 09:54 pm |
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DomThong are you related to the "Game"???
I wonder if the Delaware Dept. of Economic destruction and the Gov will keep funneling our taxpaying $$$ into the DART Cash furnace?
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DomThong
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 09:43 pm |
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| Have you noticed all the DART buses driving around with no passengers? With all the layoffs in this state why are they still driving?
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Jan 15th, 2008 01:53 pm |
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| CITI says that housing values will fall an additional 7 percent this year and another 7 percent in 2009. So lets see here, does that big FOUR wheel drive and all those other nice things you thought you needed really mean that much now considering you borrowed all that money against your HOME ATM machine? Only in America and this just gets better and better..... Last edited on Tue Jan 15th, 2008 01:54 pm by Game_Over2007
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