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Peekaboo
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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 09:47 pm
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Do you really believe that becuse the price of oil per bbl is Bush's fault?  Don't you think that world demand has anything to do with it?  RU of the type that believes Hillary Clinton that if elected, she will drop the price of oil per bbl?

Game_Over2007
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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 09:29 pm
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Well nothing has changed since I've been gone except I TOLD YOU SO and now you intellectual pundits who know everything about nothing will have to think about what you've said about the great Bush economy!  Amazing how the flock of bobble heads with never ending knowledge crawl back into the woodwork when the going gets rough.  Foreclosures, Car repossessions, credit out of control, and now Oil at 100 dollars a barrel today on one trade to set the tone for whats coming.  Should be a mild pull back later to 94 and then off to the races and maybe hitting 120.  Any takers?  haha..... Misery 2008 and the year we get rid of BUSH.  Enjoy your New Year and all you intellectuals with never ending knowledge, stay tuned to FOX Business channel because some where along the line they missed the boat on "reality". :D

Angel1965
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 Posted: Sun Dec 23rd, 2007 12:15 pm
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Legends,  when are they going to clean up the abuse where you work?  Maybe you can get CR Voter to help you out with the overtime pay problem.   He is in the know and I'm still waiting on the unclaimed asset report.  Foxes in the Hen House for sure and it just keeps on getting better. 

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071111/NEWS/711110316/1006&theme=LEGHALL

Last edited on Sun Dec 23rd, 2007 12:16 pm by Angel1965

Legends457
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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 11:40 am
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Fred and Angel........

I have money in the Vanguard funds and when you listen to John Boggle who knows more than Voter I'm sure is calling for a 75 percent chance for a recession.  You have others out there calling for the same with a better than 50 percent chance so that makes me wonder about the United State' tremendous debt incurred for piss poor leadership in this country.  Somebody has to pay for it in the end and why do you all sit here and never address this debt?  Corporate America has sold us out and then they want us to fix the problem they created.  Enough is enough and you can see it around this country as the builders have found out.  The builders over built and now they pay for their greed as so many have talked about around the country.  Florida is full of foreign real estate investors wondering.  Think about the rest of the country and here you are in little old Delaware waking up finally to reality.  The America family is tapped out financially and just going from pay day to pay day.  Something Dick Cheney don't understand I guess when he made his famous blunder speaking about it a few months ago.  Everybody have a great holiday and be thankful for what we do have no matter what goes on around us.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 10:48 am
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Considering China, Japan and Saudi Arabia are buying whats left of America the stock market will do well on this next leg but its not "Americans" doing the buying.  What we have in America is "dumb money" chasing the "tape" and as always the dumb get dumber and then they end up in "duh mode".  Ring a bell?  America is being sold out and you sit there defending it as we lose good paying jobs.  I do feel sorry for those of you who have sold your souls to a culture of greed.   

You sit in front of your televisions in "aw" listening to Bush's Fuzzy Math syndrome.  I have to wonder if its like the unclaimed assets within the State Finance System nobody can account for these days?  Wonder if it's "duh mode" again?  Of course we can't find out what happened there but sooner or later things just seem to slide out of the woodwork.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.  Remember Santa likes cookies and milk when he arrives "Voter" and not those generic  cookies you've been buying!  :D

Last edited on Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 10:58 am by Angel1965

Fred
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 Posted: Sat Dec 22nd, 2007 03:37 am
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I've not been one of the Gloomy Gus' when it comes to the economy, but my weekly economic report  I get from Vanguard was a bit less optomistic then these articles seem to be. They were concerned about the housing slump and played up the fact that spending was up due to people pulling money out of savings.

I think we are either at the bottom, or are about to hit bottom....the timing, from an election stand point, might be an issue if it doesn't pick up in the next 6 months or so.

CR Voter
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 10:34 pm
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I tried to post these links to my previous post but NewsZap doesn't seem to like competition.  Let's try it this way:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071221/economy.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071221/wall_street.html

CR Voter
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 10:31 pm
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Amazing how a week makes such a difference in the world of Finance for the doom and gloomers.

Angel1965 wrote:

The Stock Market is telling you it will fix the problem with this mortgage meltdown and credit crunch.  You will have casualties and a lot of people get hurt.  We are heading for RECESSION and the gloom and doom is based on reality!  Just here in Kent County Delaware 53 foreclosures went to Sheriffs sales last month and theirs been a projected foreclosure total of 18000 for all of Delaware so this is not conducive for good growth no matter how you do your fuzzy math over the broad economy.  The greedy pundit yo-yo's who think different need to take your heads out of the sand and start looking around because the train left the station and its not going anywhere pleasant.  Gloom and Doom-ville here we come!  Next Friday we have option expirations so we'll see how the Santa Rally goes then.  Have a great weekend and remember to smile.  :):):)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=af2DBA6IKMLA&refer=news

Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 10:32 pm by

Angel1965
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 08:23 pm
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HAPPY NEW YEAR BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D

Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 08:48 pm by Angel1965

Angel1965
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 08:19 pm
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MERRY CHRISTMAS BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  :D

Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 08:47 pm by Angel1965

Boo
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 06:57 pm
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D' y'all have fun a-talkin' to yersef?

Angel1965
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21st, 2007 04:39 pm
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Its just so amazing to see those in the know take their heads out of the sand or better yet where the sun don't shine to smell the foreclosure pain coming.  Nobody believed this could happen and now its here and its not pretty.....  House ATM's and never ending greed from the banks..... so we have to bail these people out?  Hmmm I think we go back to LIFE 101 and say.... the strong survive and the weak have to figure this life event out for themselves..... Its called REALITY

http://delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NEWS/712210348/1006/NEWS

Angel1965
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2007 03:23 pm
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Merry Christmas....... Its getting better out there..... Just listen to the DECIDER

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/104050/US-Mortgage-Crisis-Rivals-S&L-Meltdown

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/mortgage/58097

:D

CR Voter
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 05:42 pm
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It is conservative by law.  This is a good thing.  However, they continue to spend to the brink based on the revenue projections and new programs get funded by unpredictabe cash flows.

Take for example how the Minner brood based increased spending programs on projected revenue incrases from the recently raised cigarette tax.  The revenue has decreased because the people who were coming here to buy cigarettes are not coming anymore, because there is near parity when gasoline, taxes and tolls are factored in.

Nice job Ruth Ann and joint finance.

Fred
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 02:57 pm
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The way the state budget works is that they estimate how much money they are going to pull in for the next year. It is a difficult process, and one they usually are pretty conservative about...some has said here it is because they can then spend it without as many restrictions when the budget figures come in closer to the end of the year.

There is also a rainy day fund that if the numbers really come in bad that they can tap into. I don't see that, yet.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 02:51 pm
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I'll have to agree with you Ben Franklin.  I find it so ironic to see the daily pundits on here put their heads in the sand when it comes to reality.  Look at DOT and how much of burden that has become to the state taxpayers.  Why don't they just out source DOT like everything else they seem to don't want to do anymore.  Amazing times we live in and its going to get a lot worse next year.  Maybe they can also outsource the Dept of Finance too!  :):)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071219/ap_on_bi_ge/foreclosure_rates

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/NEWS/71219003

Ben Franklin
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 02:03 pm
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Here is my response to the article.

JUST LAYOFF OR FIRE A BUNCH OF EMPLOYEES, MANY OF WHOM I AM OF THE OPINION ARE WORTHLESS AND USELESS LEACHES, JUST LIKE A CORPORATION WHO DIDNT HAVE AS GOOD A QUARTER AS THEY EXPECTED.

And how do we really know its a deficiet? or is it that the state doesnt have enough money to cover everything in their budget?

Fred
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 11:07 am
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If this is the DSN posting "selected" articles, it is a lousy way to do it. If you want to encourage discussion on this topic, it probably should be posted shortly after the paper is put to bed.  Waiting a day or two in the modern age is an eon...We've already moved on to other issues.

For instance...what SHOULD have been posted is something about Bluewater. I'll give the DSN credit that it looks like they are now adding their information to the topics that are already opened, but the news yesterday probably could start some discussion.

CR Voter
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 01:55 am
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It's Santa Claus not "clause'.  You must be a lawyer..................Reminds me of a Groucho Marx movie........"Everyone knows there ain't no sanity clause".

Google it Lulu............... 

Angel1965 wrote:
 Hope Santa Clause brings your some good things so you can be in a better frame of mind for 2008!  :):):):)

CR Voter
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 12:26 am
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If you read these forums before you blasted us with your oversized fonts and idiotic "What do you think" tag line you might not get this abuse.  Go back to Internet 101 before you post again.

We covered this in our discussions yesterday wonk.

Last edited on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 12:26 am by

tspong
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 05:17 pm
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What do you think?


Revenue outlook down $41M



Forecasters fear indicators warn of recession



From the Delaware State News



By Drew Volturo



Delaware State News



NEW CASTLE — Economic forecasters slashed state revenue projections by $41.2 million Monday, signaling a slowdown in the economy and leaving state budget writers with less money in an already lean fiscal year.



The Delaware Economic and Financial Advisory Council decreased revenue estimates for fiscal 2008 and ’09 from its September figures, citing economic indicators that warn of a possible recession.



"There are a lot of moving parts, but it’s also based on the prediction of a recession," said DEFAC revenue subcommittee chair Dr. Kenneth Lewis. "Now we’re at the point where we have to be serious about including it in our forecast."



Revenue estimates dropped by $12.3 million in fiscal 2008 to $3.38 billion, and by $28.9 million in fiscal 2009 to $3.52 billion.



Personal income tax, gross receipts tax, cigarette tax and lottery revenues fell in both years, while franchise tax and insurance tax revenues crept upward.



It is the second consecutive DEFAC meeting in which revenues plummeted. In September, the council cut its revenue projections by $32.7 million.



Office of Management and Budget director Jennifer W. Davis said the state has survived in tight fiscal times before and would manage state finances accordingly.



"The governor has built financial plans in good times and in very, very lean times before," Mrs. Davis said. "This is not like fiscal 2002 (when revenue estimates fell $150 million), but it’s a time to be extremely cautious.



"We are going to focus on core services — keeping troopers on the street, providing those 24-7 services we offer, maintaining Medicaid and providing teachers for classrooms."



Funding door-openers — items needed to maintain the state’s services — might be all the state is able to do, leaving new projects and initiatives on the back burner, said Sen. Nancy W. Cook, D-Kenton.



"In a year like this, door-openers could be the entire (budget increase)," said Sen. Cook, a co-chair of the legislative Joint Finance Committee, which crafts the state budget from the governor’s proposed spending plan.



"These next six months will be very long."



During Office of Management and Budget’s fiscal 2009 budget hearings last month, state agencies proposed $287 million more than fiscal 2008’s $3.29 billion budget, an 8.7 percent increase.



One of the largest proposed increases is a door-opener, $41.4 million for the rising cost of Medicaid.



The state did not impose any financial controls Monday, but Mrs. Davis said officials would discuss in January whether to implement any management controls.



Faced with the $150 million shortfall in 2002, Gov. Ruth Ann Minner imposed a hiring freeze.



While Mrs. Davis said the state has to be fiscally cautious, she and Secretary of Finance Richard S. Cordrey said it is too early to start discussing possible tax and fee increases.



"We’re not going to take any shortsighted gimmicks or budget cuts," Mrs. Davis said.



Mr. Cordrey said the state has a few more DEFAC meetings to see how revenues change before making a decision on raising additional funds.



Several of Delaware’s strongest revenues continued to tumble.



Personal income tax, the state’s largest revenue source, fell by another $29.4 million Monday after plummeting by $31.4 million over the two years in September.



Realty transfer tax, which decreased by $14.3 million in September, is projected to fall by $2.1 million.



And DEFAC is estimating that the lottery, the state’s fourth-largest revenue source, will decrease by $11.8 million over two years, but officials expect a recovery later in the fiscal year due to Harrington Raceway and Casino’s expansion. Dover Downs also is expanding its casino.



But Dr. Lewis said he is more worried about the corporation income tax — the state’s sixth-largest revenue source — in the event of a recession. The source is projected to decrease by $800,000.



"If a recession hits, that could decrease by $40 million," Dr. Lewis said. "This is a problem for us."



Gov. Ruth Ann Minner is scheduled to roll out her proposed fiscal 2009 budget next month.



Post your opinions in the public issues forum at newszap.com.

Staff writer Drew Volturo can be reached at 741-8296 or dvolturo@newszap.com.

Legends457
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 11:53 am
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CR Voter I do think both sides of the parties have a problem with spending money.  The last time Delaware had a REAL Governor was when old Pete DuPont was in charge and got this state back on track.  I do agree with you on Minor's incompetence to run a state with some sort of fiscal responsibility.

Last edited on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 11:54 am by Legends457

CR Voter
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 11:44 am
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Actually it's a sign of gross overspending by the Democrat Administrations in Delaware under Minner & Carper.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 10:05 am
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State News headline says Revenues Short 41 Million?  Sign of the times Voter?  :)   Guess the gravey train is over and some of us were right..... :)

Angel1965
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 09:37 am
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Oh my!  The boys have come out the woodwork when truth is spoken about those who used their homes as ATM machines to buy those big Chrysler 300's and other nice "stuff" you really don't need if you can't afford it.  Long Island Idiot?  Here we go again with your name calling, so that must be your claim to fame when you can't come back with some logic and common sense to a serious problem. 

You seem to be jealous of others who make it in life and use their wisdom to make money while others put their heads in the sand.  It all started in California for us and theirs nothing wrong with taking advantage of the situation at hand.  Banks have created this mess and have given many the opportunity to clean up the mess they created with high risk bad loans.  Voter your supposed to be a financial wizard from Harvard so you say, I find it hard to believe your so negative toward others who speak their thoughts on reality.  Hope Santa Clause brings your some good things so you can be in a better frame of mind for 2008!  :):):):)

Habanero
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 04:10 am
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I'm inclined to agree with you CRV.

Funny, how more  folks are NOT having problems paying their mortgages than are having problems, yet all we see is doom and gloom.  Of course those not having trouble didn't bite off more than they could chew in the first place.  We bought our house in '03 and refinanced in '05.....of course we had a limit on how much we planned to spend and stuck with it - and in fact spent much less than the limit we set.

Set a budget folks and stick with it.  Common sense seems to fly out the window with far too many people.

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Somewhere on Long Island, a village is missing an idiot.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 10:26 pm
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Foreclosure MISERY and REALITY of the times...... DEBT and more of it.... Banks in turmoil not trusting one another and it kind of reminds me of the White House administration and those darn scandals.  Great times ahead.  Keep warm and keep trying to pay those mortgage payments!   Bush wants you all to try your best and he will help you if you do.   Hmmmm Katrina again?  

Legends457
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2007 11:20 am
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ENG20061014&articleId=3482

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/chapmand102003.html

Mendavor
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 09:33 pm
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How refreshing to see that at last people are beginning to see the decadence of a capitalist system.  Now maybe you will realize that this could not happen under a socialist system.  The closest that we can come to such an ideal is to elect Senator Hillary Clinton.  It's only a beginning but one that can set this country on a proper course of action.  It will take time but we have been realizing this for many decades.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 06:37 pm
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Voter you do what?  You are in "LaLa" Land Voter.   Let's think about it and it just makes me wonder about your thoughts on a corrupt financial sector that created all those creative loans driving this economy into a recession.  The corporate greed with easy money and all those Wall Street pundits pumping how great things are making this nightmare a reality.  Then you have to have people go in and clean up their mess after they just got done screwing your average family trying to buy a home.   The rich got richer at the expense of those sub-prime loans.  Theirs nothing wrong with buying and selling homes for a profit if the price is right.  You just have to realize that an appreciation of 200 percent or more in four years is not real and now you pay for it all.  Its called REALITY.  :)

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On the contrary Lulu.  I work to help steer the positives in this country and it's economy.  I don't sweep up the broken lives like so much fodder as do the vultures who scarf up the roadkill.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 10:34 am
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Voter, do I sense the "Grinch" coming out of you again?  haha.... Reality is home prices will come down more....... Sad as it is we didn't create this problem, so you do what you have to do!  Somebody has to clean up the wreckage caused by the greed created by these out of control financial institutions.  Let them fix their corrupt balance sheets ending the year with a major financial disaster..... Life can be a real "B" huh?  Santa Clause is alive and well.  Merry Christmas Voter..... Hope they clean up that mess with the unclaimed money too!  The State AG will probably sweep it all under the table like they do in other states.   :)  Accountability these days is very lacking..... :)

CR Voter
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So how much did you and your husband make this week snapping up those real estate deals at the expense of the people you are claiming to defend?

Angel1965
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 10:38 pm
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Lets see.  A sign of the times?  Gee can things get any better when you have to go to a pay day loan shark?  :):):)

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/13/real_estate/payday_lending/index.htm?postversion=2007121412

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/14/news/companies/fannie_annualmeeting/index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/14/markets/markets_0445/index.htm

Angel1965
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 10:34 pm
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The Stock Market is telling you it will fix the problem with this mortgage meltdown and credit crunch.  You will have casualties and a lot of people get hurt.  We are heading for RECESSION and the gloom and doom is based on reality!  Just here in Kent County Delaware 53 foreclosures went to Sheriffs sales last month and theirs been a projected foreclosure total of 18000 for all of Delaware so this is not conducive for good growth no matter how you do your fuzzy math over the broad economy.  The greedy pundit yo-yo's who think different need to take your heads out of the sand and start looking around because the train left the station and its not going anywhere pleasant.  Gloom and Doom-ville here we come!  Next Friday we have option expirations so we'll see how the Santa Rally goes then.  Have a great weekend and remember to smile.  :):):)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=af2DBA6IKMLA&refer=news

Last edited on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 10:53 pm by Angel1965

Kirk
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 08:13 pm
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Wow!  I knew punctuation was dangerous!  I'll never use comma's again.

Boo
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 07:57 pm
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Ben Franklin wrote: CR Voter wrote: If you believe that you might as well pack up your life and move to China.  As an American I know we can fix our issues as soon as we get rid of the Naysayers in this country.

Legends457 wrote:
  We can't fix the problem now.  Its to late.


Legends is correct. I have examined most if not all the systems in this country. the only way it will fix itself is after a total crash. Kinda like an alchoholic not stopping drinking untill after he wakes up from the comma.

I was reading this article and the author said something very facinating he said. that the health care industry is so tied into the economy that to reform it would crash the economy. billions of dollars a year circulate thru a health care system that is designed to create life long paitents instead of cure people. But those billions also mean 10s of thousands of more employed people. Some usefull some not. Get the point. our economy is so based on BS institutions that to get rid of them would put millions out of work.

no theres no fixing it at this point. those who are left after the collapse will have to deal with that.

Don't worry Ben.  Once Hillary is elected and enacts her health care plan and the Democrat congress passes the Rangle tax package, total collapse is iminent.

Ben Franklin
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 07:24 pm
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CR Voter wrote: If you believe that you might as well pack up your life and move to China.  As an American I know we can fix our issues as soon as we get rid of the Naysayers in this country.

Legends457 wrote:
  We can't fix the problem now.  Its to late.


Legends is correct. I have examined most if not all the systems in this country. the only way it will fix itself is after a total crash. Kinda like an alchoholic not stopping drinking untill after he wakes up from the comma.

I was reading this article and the author said something very facinating he said. that the health care industry is so tied into the economy that to reform it would crash the economy. billions of dollars a year circulate thru a health care system that is designed to create life long paitents instead of cure people. But those billions also mean 10s of thousands of more employed people. Some usefull some not. Get the point. our economy is so based on BS institutions that to get rid of them would put millions out of work.

no theres no fixing it at this point. those who are left after the collapse will have to deal with that.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 09:39 am
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We have to thank God and hope we can all enjoy life for what it was meant to be but sometimes we have to make a few adjustments along the way.  :)  Anyway I seen the financial sector do what they don't do yesterday and it relates again to the truth in lending.  The so called Santa Rally has kind of gone on the way side and new "stuff" is coming out with these hedge funds and it wont be pretty either.  Gloom and doom?  Just the facts as they are reported.  Sorry.... :(

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/12/news/economy/eavis_fortune.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007121304

Angel1965
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 09:38 am
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:):)  Just another day...

Last edited on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 09:40 am by Angel1965

Fred
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 01:49 pm
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Life is ALWAYS good.

What do you suggest "they" do? I feel for many of the consumers who have bought into the "buy now, pay later" bit...I am just old enough to remember that credit cards used to actually something you had to qualify for, not given to every man, woman, child, and hamster that wants one.

What drove it from the demand side was greed....we all want more, we all want it now, and we all want to pay for it tomorrow. What drove it from the supply side was, if not greed, a desire for higher and higher profits. I think they thought they could manage the debt load of the consumer, adding and subtracting fees and interest rate to keep one more or less voluntarily in servitude to them.

Trying to solve it with a magic wand may mean rewarding one side or the other for their bad management decisions.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 12:08 pm
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:)  Smile today.... life is good...

Last edited on Wed Dec 12th, 2007 12:10 pm by Angel1965

Angel1965
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 09:29 am
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The conservatives and the liberals are lost in their own Washington DC maze of never doing anything until its to late.  Well now the cards are down and somebody has to step up to the plate and do something.  hmmmmm We had money left over after Clinton....   So as an Independent who makes up her own mind maybe we need to rethink the level of stupidity in Washington DC and start doing something again.  Political pundits on both sides better wake up because people see through this never ending BS where nothing gets done.  ONE WORD IS GOING AROUND NOW AND THEY BETTER LISTEN.  ACCOUNTABILITY.  Its not the job of the FED to fix the stock market by the way.  Markets correct themselves and their are casualties.  Thats called life and then you die.  Maybe its "reality"?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/11/markets/markets_0500/index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/11/news/companies/freddie_mac/index.htm?postversion=2007121116

Last edited on Wed Dec 12th, 2007 09:37 am by Angel1965

Fred
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 01:32 am
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I have no problem with people who point out problems; we certainly have some, but we've had worse, and we managed to get over it.

We first have to agree what the problem is...in this case, you can't let either the consumers or the lenders off the hook. The lenders were fine as long as they weren't the last ones holding the paper and were too lenient in granting credit to people who should never have had it...but the people who took the money bare some of that, as well. I remember when I was looking for a house and I was "qualified" to buy a house that was about 50% more then I eventually bought. Granted, I did buy one that was about 10% more then I planned, but I KNEW that the other figure was not one I wanted to ber responsible for.

We've got to figure out a way to make both parties responsible, but the only way I can think of (let them both sink) has the consequence of affecting all of us.

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 Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 12:44 am
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If you believe that you might as well pack up your life and move to China.  As an American I know we can fix our issues as soon as we get rid of the Naysayers in this country.

Legends457 wrote:
  We can't fix the problem now.  Its to late.

Bixby
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 02:08 pm
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Legends457 wrote: Corporate greed moving over seas to sell the American worker out.  We have no American values, we did it to ourselves.  They keep saying we have lots of jobs here but the pay is at the low end of the spectrum while NIKE makes their 100-200 dollar shoes for 50 cents an hour over seas.  Just part of the big problem.  We can't fix the problem now.  Its to late.
I wouldn't quite call it corporate greed for the very existence of a business is to profit.  What you say is true but we can trace the genesis of it to the Doctrine of Interdependence whereby American business would go overseas to 3rd world countries so they can raise their standards.  This was signed on to by the Carter Administration and the rest of the Congress and lauded by the UN. Restrictive regulations, tax incentives, the high cost of labor all contributed to the shift of manufacturing to other countries.  We are no longer a stand-alone nation and have not been for a long time.

Angel1965
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:20 pm
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Remind you of anything?  We did it to ourselves?  Read his book.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9pb.htm

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 Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 12:08 pm
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Fred,  I wish I could see what you see for the future but this credit card mess, along with all the housing foreclosures is very troublesome for me.  If you look at what caused it all you can see is one common thread revolving around greed within our financial sectors here and abroad.  This has crippled the American consumer at the low end of the spectrum but all the TV Know It Alls keep keep pumping the markets to no end with a broad based theory that has run its course.  People here have to live, work and buy things so we have a balance and they can't do it anymore.  Things cost to much.  The sad thing is we are a nation Corporate America turned its back on when it comes to the American worker.  You talk about patriotism!  Corporate greed moving over seas to sell the American worker out.  We have no American values, we did it to ourselves.  They keep saying we have lots of jobs here but the pay is at the low end of the spectrum while NIKE makes their 100-200 dollar shoes for 50 cents an hour over seas.  Just part of the big problem.  We can't fix the problem now.  Its to late.

Fred
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 01:43 am
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While I do think these things go in cycles and we will survive, one has to be amused at the spin the business press puts on things. For instance....let's say that October sales are almost 20 percent below what they were last year, which is the third biggest drop on record. If you are the business press, what kind of headline do you use?

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/12/10/afx4422744.html

US October pending home sales up 0.6 pct, second monthly increase

Which, of course, is technically true...but relatively meaningless. Now, the point they are making is that the worst of the housing debacle may be behind us. I tend to think not, but one can't blame Forbes for trying.


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