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Fred
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Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 01:25 pm |
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Oh, it is all about the money, and the pressure to perform on the athletes is amazing.
I don't think there is any question that the heros of the past would be amazing to watch if they simply had the time and money to train like the athletes of today. We forget that many of the pros had to have second jobs in the off-season, probably until about the 60s or 70s, so the pre-seasons were truly needed to get into shape, not simply part of the media circus it is today.
I also think it depends on the character of the old-timer if they would have used Juice, as it is today. I would hope that Joe Dimaggio would not have used anything, but I am not sure that others might not have been tempted. If Ruth could have gotten a few more seasons of production, would he have done it? How about Lou Gehrig?
It is hard to compare eras, but even harder to compare personalities of the various eras.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 12:10 pm |
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| Again the issue becomes "right or wrong" and whether to reward those who abuse the system to achieve their goals. No matter what sport it is we find this to a point and then you have to say enough is enough and fix the problem. Right now this last generation of so called super stars of baseball have ruined our national past time and I'm sorry to say I just watch college football now because I have no use for the rest. I can take it or leave it. Sports today is about money and the corporate sponsors want a return on investment at any cost. You have to decide on what makes your time worth while watching a bunch of overpaid athletes doing what they do best. You have to wonder how Mays, Mantle and Arron would have faired against todays so called home run hitters on steroids. No contest in my opinion. The legends of the past were "real" and not on dope. Last edited on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 12:12 pm by Game_Over2007
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 11:07 am |
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CR...what I personally feel about Bonds and what I think should be done to him are two different things, and yes, there is a bit of trial lawyer logic there. I don't like him, either, but I recognize that I didn't like him before the steriod bit hit the papers. It is one more reason to dislike him, and I would prefer they he, McGuire and Sosa did not do such a thing. I was hoping that Bonds was not going to make the record, but once he did, I don't know if you can do much about it.
Even if he was proven to have taken steriods (knowingly or unknowingly...hah. When a doctor gives ME a shot, I know I want to know what it is for), I am not sure what baseball could do....a conviction would probably not be enough to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but maybe he would not make it on the first ballot.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Nov 19th, 2007 09:04 am |
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Looks like the Xmas rally on Wall Street might run out of gas considering the hedge boys can't seem to pump the market up like years gone by. Some analysts are seeing option calls at 160 - 200 dollars per barrel on oil but this perfect storm for oil is going to take down more than you know considering we have a two trillion dollars in credit debt and no hope in sight. Remember "pay-go" under Clinton? Guess the Bush administration wants to ensure we keep spending on credit and save the banks involved in sub prime slime. Great guy this BUSH failure for SEVEN YEARS.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/18/markets/stocks_lookahead.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007111816
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 09:17 pm |
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Fred - Your indifference is part and parcel to a trial lawyer. "I never had sexual relations with that woman" is probably the most famous expression of such belief.
Wrong is wrong and there is no "right" about it.
Period end of point. Don't you have children?
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 06:39 pm |
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| Well what your saying is that if someone in any sport uses enhancing drugs to make them better at their game, any record they break is broken? Says a lot about ethics in sports and lets the young kids growing up think its OK. I have to disagree because what you have is a mind-set going against "achievement to the highest standard" in sports your good at with out the use of external enhancers. You perform at your sport from what God gave you to work with and you don't break the rules getting there for your goals in the sport. When you achieve a record, you have done it on your own and the record "means more" to you. Last edited on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 06:41 pm by Game_Over2007
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Fred
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 04:15 pm |
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I tend to agree, Hab. What he did may or may not be "cheating" by the purists, but it certainly was legal...up to a point.
I think people let their dislike of his arrogance take over their thought process on what kind of ball player he did, and what he accomplished. He will make it in to the Hall of Fame when he is eligible, and will make it on the first ballot. Their will be some dissenting opinions, but he will be a hall of famer.
As for the media....they are looking for a story, period. Too often people blame the media for having an agenda, when I really don't think you have to go much deeper then they have an agenda to fill up space. A simple reporting of the sports, status, and scores would take about half a page, or 5-10 minutes...ESPN isn't going to be in business too long with that model.
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Habanero
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 03:46 am |
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I was listening to an interesting discussion on ESPN radio on my way home from work tonight about the ballotting for the Baeball Hall of fame. The guy they had on has a vote and is also the guy who makes the calls to the new inductees to inform them (I never caught his name)
Where I turned it on was when they were discussing Pete Rose and Barry Bonds and who should or should not be eligible. The above mentioned guy had a really good point when he said what Rose did(gambling) was worse than what Bonds is accused of(seroid use.) His point was that there has been a long standing rule against the gambling dating back to the 1920s, whereas with Bonds, even if he did use steroids the rule is a new one and it is possible, again if he actually did use them that he started using them BEFORE there was any such rule.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 02:50 am |
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What bothers me in all of this is these guys are elevated to the staus of heros by the media. Its all based around the money the club pays to get them, not their real abilities on AND OFF the field.
Any player that reaps the benefits of the psuedo title "hero" better be as clean as a field of freshly fallen northeast snow......
And nope I don't miss it....
I remember going to Binghamton one winter, never again.....
Last edited on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 04:37 am by Bluesman
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sun Nov 18th, 2007 01:10 am |
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It is truly sad the state we have allowed "sports" to come to. There are some great athletes out there, but they get so overshadowed with greed.
Fathers are beating up coaches because their sons don't get enough playing time in little league.
Kind of makes you want to sit on the front porch and enjoy your memories. I sometimes think we are too far gone to try.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 08:53 am |
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Rochester New York? Well I guess we understand baseball better than we think CR Voter even though we've thrown a few stones at each other on here? haha... I grew up just south of you and remember the Wings WELL. Baseball was a real hometown GAME then and people could afford to go to the games taking the whole family for a day of fun.
It's amazing when you see guys like "A-Rod" and all the rest making so much money and you have to wonder what the hell is driving all this and the end result is we have a culture of pumped up kids on steroids trying to break records taking a short cut to success. For the love of the GAME? For the love of MONEY? I have no respect for baseball now and what it's become. Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays made around 100K to 150K back when baseball was fun! If you couldn't watch the games on television you listened to them on radio! Amazing dedication for what it was worth back then when those players loved playing the game. Your right its no fun anymore and I think we just tolerate it today.
Sports today is big money and that's all! This new breed of sports players think short cutting their way to success is the way to go. We have no tradition any more and the values we cherished as kids are gone. I remember how I felt when Roger Maris hit home run number 61 and Mel Allen was screaming in the microphone! I could care less about Barry Bonds and what he's done. We grew up respecting our generation of sports hero's, so you have to ask yourself what is a real hero today in sports? Over paid steroid abuser? Makes you wonder huh?
Last edited on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 10:58 am by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 12:53 am |
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I find it sad that our children will not have the thrill we had from baseball of old. Today it is money, money, money. Our heros made good money in their day, but not gazillionaires wages for playing a game.
I belonged to the local knot hole gang and went to the park with my Dad to cheer the Orioles farm club. I grew up in Rochester New York with the Red Wings at Morey Silver Stadium.
Luke Easter was the team hero and in today's world he would have been a major leaguer in a big way. Back then he was the big fish in the small pond. Barry Bonds isn't fit to shine his shoes.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 11:18 pm |
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Maybe CR Voter.... hmmmm..... you think? hahaha Just for you CR Voter.... Mantle never had to worry over batting power.... My dad seen the home run Mantle hit at Yankee Stadium when he hit the Facade Lights over the third deck in right field..... That was the hardest hit ball my dad ever seen.
http://www.themick.com/10homers.html
Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 11:23 pm by Game_Over2007
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CR Voter
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 10:26 pm |
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I can actually say that I agree with you completely. Maybe baseball is our common ground.
Game_Over2007 wrote:
ABOUT TIME THEY GET THIS GUY ON SOME CHARGES..... THIS HAS RUINED BASEBALL ALONG WITH ALL HIS OTHER BUDDIES WHO PUMPED THEMSELVES UP TO HIT THE LONG BALL. WILLY MAYS, HANK ARON AND MICKEY MANTLE HIT REAL HOME RUNS AND NOW THIS.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/15/bonds.indicted/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
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Angel1965
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 09:53 pm |
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Well I guess the BANKS have some issues now. NOBODY knows what the real debt is and its spread all over the world.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/16/news/economy/mortgage_losses/index.htm
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 09:41 am |
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ABOUT TIME THEY GET THIS GUY ON SOME CHARGES..... THIS HAS RUINED BASEBALL ALONG WITH ALL HIS OTHER BUDDIES WHO PUMPED THEMSELVES UP TO HIT THE LONG BALL. WILLY MAYS, HANK ARON AND MICKEY MANTLE HIT REAL HOME RUNS AND NOW THIS.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/15/bonds.indicted/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 09:32 am |
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Maybe they need to let the markets correct themselves and let some of these banks go under. Only in America.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/15/news/mortgage_bill.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007111522
http://moneyhelps.blogs.money.cnn.com/2007/11/15/a-lenders-error-is-killing-my-credit/
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/earns_retailers.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/mortgage_writedowns.html
Laxed Bush standards are thrown out in federal court. Wonder why? Bush is about done with his Big Business Culture of IDOTS associated with his administration.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/fuel_economy.html
Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 09:37 am by Game_Over2007
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 08:13 pm |
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Dunc....
There are many ways to look at an economy, but what I think is going on can be simplified.
Let's say I make $490,000 and you make $10,000. Between us, we average $250K a year, and I am feeling pretty good. I probably want to make 500K, but I generally have a pretty positive outlook on the economy.
If I am the 10K a year guy, the story is a bit different....and this is what I think is happening on a national scale. The "haves" are doing extremely well, as their investments, holdings, and general state of mind are that they will always have something to fall back on. Life in general sucks for the have nots, and with the cutbacks in the middle level income jobs, they don't see a lot of room for growth. Those in the middle see cutbacks, mergers and outsourcing as real threats to their livelihood, or at least their station in life. You could, if you want, argue that this isn't true, but it really isn't the point...people don't have confidence in their future.
Now...I think a bit of this will take care of itself. We've got a whole generation of baby boomers beginning to retire, and while companies have grown addicted to the downsizing fix, they are beginning to realize that the actually will need some warm bodies to replace those leaving....and there may even be a competition for the workers remaining in the workforce, which may, over time, bring back up confidence in the economy.
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Duncan Idaho
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 04:27 pm |
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Game_Over2007 wrote: Great BUSH economy going south..... risk reward he said....
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/15/news/companies/jcpenney/index.htm
A strong economy? Not according to the MSM
If you were to believe the reports from the network news anchors and the pundits on CNN, MSNBC and in The New York Times, the American economy is headed back to the 1930s. The truth is significantly different. Last week’s employment report noted an increase of 166,000 non-farm payroll jobs. Employment overall has expanded for 50 months in a row, adding more than 8.5 million jobs to the economy. Despite the sub-prime mortgage mess, and oil reaching nearly $100 a barrel, the U.S. economy expanded by 3.9 percent last quarter. Shall we go on? Well, let’s see, inflation is growing slower than at any time since the 1960s. The deficit is down to 1.2 percent of GDP, its lowest level in five years. Per capita GDP has risen 12.7 percent since 2001 when President Bush took office and proposed those evil tax cuts. Still, the point is, as long as a Republican occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., the economy will be dutifully reported to be in the tank. If a Democrat wins in 2008, look for the economy to recover miraculously around February 2009.
However, Bernanke sees slow growth ahead.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/money/archives/articles/2007/11/8/101046.cfm?s=al&promo_code=3C98-1]Last edited on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 04:34 pm by Duncan Idaho
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 03:17 pm |
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Well its about time the State of Delaware woke up to the OVERTIME abuse....
http://wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7358560
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 02:09 pm |
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Great BUSH economy going south..... risk reward he said....
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/15/news/companies/jcpenney/index.htm
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 09:30 am |
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It's hard being George Walker Bush...
http://www.progressiveliving.org/politics/why_bush_is_incompetent.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011807J.shtml
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/05/hbc-90000190
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_administration_cronyism_and_incompetence
Last edited on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 09:34 am by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 08:24 am |
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The bank roaches keep coming out of the woodwork.... Bush and company just can't seem to cover up the real economy gone sour...... LOL
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/14/news/companies/ubs_writedown/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/real_estate/no_abatement_in_foreclosures/index.htm?postversion=2007111416
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/news/0711/gallery.abx_index/
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/14/news/companies/fannie_mae.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007111413
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/news/companies/bulldog_enron.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007111405
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/11/26/101232838/
Last edited on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 08:31 am by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 03:55 pm |
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Fox News Boss in trouble.... Finally the head NUT at Fox will have a few head aches for being stupid.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21778421/
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 11:47 am |
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Interesting article in History Network News and its says a lot about incompetence and possibly the worse president this country has ever had the disgusting pleasure of letting him "rule" this country!
http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 10:19 am |
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Bush followers yesterday managed to pump up the dumb money again.... love it...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/real_estate/no_abatement_in_foreclosures/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/news/companies/snp_mortgagebanks.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007111317
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 05:32 pm |
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If only this was a REALITY as it should be.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 05:20 pm |
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We have family out on LI and have heard first hand some of the REAL LIFE horror stories. Some of which I brought up months ago, that were like always dismissed. So yes I definitely would agree with what is now becoming more and more a REALITY for many families. Of course I'm sure these 2 who are happy down on their farm would disagree and of course will put some spin on it:
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 04:57 pm |
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Crisis or what? 
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-enreal-gallery,0,330154.storygallery
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 02:24 pm |
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| Bluesman, I'm accountable to nobody on this board or any other board I post on. I find being honest and to the point offends many some times and so be it, but in the long term I know I've made my point known being "transparent" about my views. No debate required. I speak my peace and let it be. I post my thoughts about GEORGE WALKER BUSH sitting in the White House who I refer to as "Buffoon" and a "draft dodger". He has no creditable military service time and thats a sad note on his part! The Great Decider is like the other chicken hawks who prefer other's to let their kids go to war while they sit around trying to figure out how to make money off it. Life goes on..... Last edited on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 04:15 pm by Game_Over2007
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:29 pm |
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Legends457 wrote: The war that should have never happened. Now we pay for it for generations to come. Lots of families have paid a dear price for this blunder. How do you really fix it now? This has become a disaster and a nightmare going forward.
Another shining example of REALITY:
I posted about a personal friend of mine who has 20 years of honorable service in the military. He and his wife have 4 children ranging in age 9 - 19. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and he was given a 14 day leave from Iraq to come home. During that 14 days they discovered the cancer was terminal, and despite the fact that this person was due to retire (after 20 years service in less than1 month) he received orders to go back to Iraq, and was sent back.
When I asked a forum member what do you tell a 9 year old whose mother is dying of cancer ( she has in fact since passed away) when she asks why her father is sent back to war?
The response I was given:
"Your daddy has a duty to protect all of us not just you and your family and he knew that when he joined the military"
FYI: the person who gave that response never served a day in his life in the military
Last edited on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:31 pm by Bluesman
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:20 pm |
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Ben, I find it DISGUSTING and REPREHENSIBLE that this person would profess to honor and support our troops. On Friday night the request for clothing for the returning vets, was pushed back by the other 1/2 of this sockpuppet team, in every blog on this forum.
You can see where I tried to keep them in the forefront, by posting in them with the word "bump."
I even started a blog asking why it was done only to be told:
"To Piss you off. Did it work?"
Friday night's actions were a true example of the civility and freedom of speech that they believe in.
Last edited on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:57 pm by Bluesman
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Legends457
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:17 pm |
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| The war that should have never happened. Now we pay for it for generations to come. Lots of families have paid a dear price for this blunder. How do you really fix it now? This has become a disaster and a nightmare going forward.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:12 pm |
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Punky wrote:  SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND OUR COUNTRY. GIVE THANKS WE HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SPEAK OUT, WITHOUT RECOURSE.
You really believe that crap. do you know how many journalists and others are being investigated by the Fed. gov. for speaking out.
How about the free speach zones?
If you really wanted to support our troops you would be demanding an exit from all these wars of attrition being conducted by the US for the oiligarchy. This whole war of terror is nothing more than an endless gravy train for the very people that pissed the so called terrorists off in the first place.
Now explain to me how some service member dying in Iraq effects my freedom one way or the other. It doesnt they arent dying to protect your freedom they are dying to protect oil reserves and its about hi time America woke up and admitted the truth.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 10:42 am |
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Game_Over2007 wrote: Just to get this week back on track with my transparent views. I think if some politicians would be transparent on both sides of the isle maybe life would be better but a politician is a strange little creature of God. They just want to get elected and no more. After elected they get CRS.
they also get RRS,WDS....
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 09:42 am |
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| Just to get this week back on track with my transparent views. I think if some politicians would be transparent on both sides of the isle maybe life would be better but a politician is a strange little creature of God. They just want to get elected and no more. After elected they get CRS.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 11:48 am |
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Punky wrote: Well, CR, some have strange ways of entertaining themselves, at the cost of the U.S.A.........nothing's sacred.
And some people post that they agree about something and do the EXACT opposite....
Punky wrote:
Fred wrote: I DO think, however, that it should give that veteran a chance to offer someone a big cup of STFU when patriotism is mentioned. I'll concede that it is perhaps possible to show your love and dedication to your country in ways other than by wearing it's uniform; I'll also challenge anyone to give me a better way, however.
Fred,
Your post is reasonable, well thought out, and intelligently stated. No challenge from me.
Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 12:29 pm by Bluesman
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Punky
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 11:34 am |
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| SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND OUR COUNTRY. GIVE THANKS WE HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SPEAK OUT, WITHOUT RECOURSE.
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Punky
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 11:21 am |
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CR Voter wrote: There's one in every crowd.
CR Voter wrote:
Dopey me, I thought that on Veterans Day, you all might just stop and pay some respect with your silence over who is more patriotic.
I was wrong, you all care more about petty politics than honoring your country and the Veterans who served. I for one will talk politics again on Tuesday.
Well, CR, some have strange ways of entertaining themselves, at the cost of the U.S.A.........nothing's sacred.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 03:52 am |
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REALITY:
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 03:43 am |
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REALITY:
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 03:31 am |
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REALITY:
Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 03:43 am by Bluesman
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CR Voter
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 02:51 am |
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There's one in every crowd.
CR Voter wrote:
Dopey me, I thought that on Veterans Day, you all might just stop and pay some respect with your silence over who is more patriotic.
I was wrong, you all care more about petty politics than honoring your country and the Veterans who served. I for one will talk politics again on Tuesday.
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 02:49 am |
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REALITY:
Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 03:45 am by Bluesman
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Punky
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 02:11 am |
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| http://www1.va.gov/opa/vetsday/index.asp
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Bluesman
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 01:25 am |
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Hab,
Sent you a PM.
Last edited on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 02:47 am by Bluesman
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Habanero
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 01:05 am |
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Bluesman wrote: Unfortunately those who haven't served can't comprehend that concept, of loyalty to a government and a nation, not some political party, or self serving belief.
Sorry, Blues, I disagree.
I never wore the uniform of our nation, but I do understand the concept of loyalty to my nation, country, and flag. I have had the unfortunate displeasure of meeting some who did wear the uniform that have absolutely no use for our nation, country, or flag, but rather a political party or a self serving belief.
It works all ways Blues, and it takes all kinds.
Just because I never wore a uniform doesn't mean I have any less belief in what this nation was founded upon.
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 12:45 am |
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| The most important message of Veterans Day is standing up for all veterans, past and present....and if today is not the day to remember those who's contributions were minimized, there is no point for remembering anyone.
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Punky
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 11:33 pm |
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| You're absolutely right, CR.............signing off and saying a prayer
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CR Voter
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 11:07 pm |
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Dopey me, I thought that on Veterans Day, you all might just stop and pay some respect with your silence over who is more patriotic.
I was wrong, you all care more about petty politics than honoring your country and the Veterans who served. I for one will talk politics again on Tuesday.
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