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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 08:35 pm |
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http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6335.html Whats causing the meltdown
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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Legends457 wrote: Yeah and Sara Palin walks on water too.......
And can see russia from her house. I watched a video clip of Obberman writing a check for 3700 to the alaska special olympics. Thats a $100 dollars for every lie he caught Palin in from 9/10 to when ever he did the broad cast.
i would say shes fitting in very well with the national neocons
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Legends457
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 08:22 pm |
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| Yeah and Sara Palin walks on water too.......
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Habanero
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 05:57 pm |
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| Yeah, for sure Biden did great in his speech --- who wrote it for him, or better yet who did he plagiarize it from?
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Legends457
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 05:21 pm |
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| Joe Biden hit the nail on the head today with his speech in Ohio. Lets see John McCain debate Obama. No note cards this go around. Wonder if he will blow his top when he's exposed for the real man he is on nation media.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Sep 24th, 2008 09:20 am |
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| Well the smart Dem's and Rep's are in sync with this idiotic trillion dollar bailout plan and want oversight and accountability. NO MORE giving money to the chosen few and sticking it to the taxpayers. Enough is Enough..... Sen Shelby held his ground yesterday and thats one Republican that would have my vote anytime and theirs a few more. Bush thinks he can pull off another scam for his buddies on Wall Street and guess it may back fired.............. Last edited on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 01:19 pm by Game_Over2007
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Legends457
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Posted: Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 09:32 am |
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| Sent a thank you card to President Bush yesterday thanking him for his outstanding leadership and being our Commander and Chief during 9/11, Katrina, and the current economic financial disaster. Eight great years of prosperity. Barney Fife could have done a better job.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:01 am |
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FYI.... two years ago I called for this meltdown in the financial sector based on the culture of greed and the conservative doctrine of de-regulation, no rules and take all you can get while the getting is good attitude. Now we pay. Thank you Mr Bush for all that you've done for this country. Like father like sons. Maybe you can adopt John McCain to continue your legacy of failures. 
http://www.tsptalk.com/comments.html
Last edited on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 09:38 am by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 04:42 pm |
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Remember when you vote in November..... We didn't get to this financial disaster over night. It's taken years of de-regulation / no rules pushed by the conservative pundits of greed. Then creative packaging of credit derivatives aka bad paper which John McCain has no clue of and never will because he's part of the real problem which started this mess years ago. He championed this theory along with Phil Graham and others from the conservative base. *S*
Think about how far we've come under the conservative doctrine of whats good for you in America. The party has no use for the US Constitution and does not respect government issued subpoenas when they are issued for their questionable tactics regarding rule of law. Now we have the Hockey Mom and her hubby refusing to answer subpoenas. She fits right in with the Bush culture of politics. Eight years of this crap is ENOUGH.
Last edited on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 04:54 pm by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sun Sep 21st, 2008 01:50 pm |
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Skjuda wrote: What gets me is the people who made the bad morgagtes are not going to pay, they get to walk away will all the money. Third party "lenders" did the morgages and then sold them to the morgage giants. IN some cases they hid the very bad ones in with the good ones when they sold packages of morgages.
These people took the money and a few moths worth of payments to get the higher interest and then sold them off. How is the government bailout gonna get them to bone up thier fair share? It isnt going to happen. We the taxpayers have to pay for thier dishonest workings and greed.
Most of the people who got these loans don't have a pot to piss in and to put into perspective we can thank the conservative pundits of greed who created this mess for us to clean up now with our tax payer dollars. Bottom line is we had no regulations and no rules in place. NOW WE PAY.... Look who got rich here and then think about the greatest financial disaster since the great depression taking us down to where we are today..... Bush and Cheney wanted the American Dream for everybody...... THEY DIDN'T GET IT.... THEIR GREEDY FRIENDS ON WALL STREET DID..... OUR MONEY...Last edited on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 04:22 pm by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 07:31 pm |
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| I have to differ on that McCain fabrication of stretching the story about Obama's advisors...... Phil Graham and John McCain were linked to financial issues years ago with the Savings and Loan crisis and here we are again with the end results of their knowledge back then. We are all going to pay for their incompetence and we will pay big-time to the tune of a trillion dollars. John McCain should have been put in jail after the Keating Five mess...... See how the old boy holds up on a one on one with Obama......
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 05:08 pm |
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| McCain tossed Graham off his team months ago. How many Fanny and Freddie former CEO's are on Obama's team.
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Skjuda
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 04:57 pm |
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What gets me is the people who made the bad morgagtes are not going to pay, they get to walk away will all the money. Third party "lenders" did the morgages and then sold them to the morgage giants. IN some cases they hid the very bad ones in with the good ones when they sold packages of morgages.
These people took the money and a few moths worth of payments to get the higher interest and then sold them off. How is the government bailout gonna get them to bone up thier fair share? It isnt going to happen. We the taxpayers have to pay for thier dishonest workings and greed.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 04:03 pm |
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| The Rats.....are guys like Phil Graham and his republican stooges who were part of this de-regulation no rules crap that led to this disaster.... Accept facts....
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 03:25 pm |
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| A couple of those "rats" are on the Obama economic advisory team.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sat Sep 20th, 2008 01:13 pm |
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Looks like the conservative pundits of greed are crawling back into the woodwork now that the biggest disaster since the Great Depression is before us. Over a TRILLION dollars of debt to maybe fix a de-regulated Wall Street nightmare with no rules or integrity. GREED at its best.
This falls in line with the Republican Party doctrine for giving tax breaks to the wealthy and screwing the rest. See if you can catch those little RATS running out the back door with your money now. Everyone is pointing fingers but the fact of the matter is we've had eight years of this greed and now the circuit breaker tripped and George Bush gets the final blame. Its on his WATCH and falls in line with all his other FAILURES.
Last edited on Sat Sep 20th, 2008 01:22 pm by Game_Over2007
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 04:10 pm |
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The bail out will cost hundreds of billions of dollars.
Most far reaching government involvement since the Great Depression.
Are the fundementals still strong?
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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This die hard mentality for voting the party line is pure stupidity. John McCain can't even give an intelligent response to this financial crisis. McCain just don't get it. You die hards explain the McCain tax plan for me. Its the same one we've had for the last EIGHT Years! NOTHING CHANGES. Before you vote read the fine print and try to make an "intelligent" vote.
THANK YOU GEORGE BUSH AND ALL YOUR CRONIES WHO MADE TONS OF MONEY ON WALL STREET DUE TO YOUR FINANCIAL POLICIES FOR SELLING OUT THE AMERICAN FAMILIES. NOW WE GET TO BAIL OUT YOUR GREEDY WALL STREET FRIENDS ANOTHER TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT. Last edited on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 04:05 pm by Game_Over2007
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 03:12 pm |
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http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/schembrie8.html
Dismissing feeble altruistic rationalizations, we see the Federal Reserve's power to create unlimited amounts of money at whim has caused our monetary overlords to lose touch with humanity and wage war against the human race. Such unbounded egomania is a natural consequence of being insulated from economic, political, and moral accountability during the Fed's century-long reign of corruption.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 09:35 am |
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Every President this country has ever had never walked a straight line. Theirs always something in their closet that bites them. You as a voter have to decide whats right and whats more important when it comes to ISSUES. ISSUES are important my friend. It's not a popularity contest with the American people.
Right now John McCain is having some real serious issues remembering who people are and what country they represent. Yesterday he couldn't remember the president of Spain and gets him confused with someone from Latin America. In fact his AGE is showing and the level of confidence the American people are willing to trust him. His pole numbers will slowly go down now as the Barbie Doll crap runs its course with Sarah Palin. She adds no value to the ticket and the American people see it now. A heart beat away from becoming President is finally sinking in and its called REALITY. He really needs to retire and enjoy life. *S*
By the way remember Ken Lay and all the Bush supporters at ENRON? The ENRON inner circle of corruption? Lets not forget to mention the famous Savings and Loan scandal and Mr Neal Bush! Another disaster from the good ole Bush family of corruption. I think Phil Graham was the architect for that culture of greed and now he's helping with the McCain economic plan. Small world huh? Oh lets not forget the KEATING FIVE mess huh? John McCain's ethics during that mess? HE SHOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL.
Wake UP PTG...... McCain is losing his mind....
http://rationalrevolution.net/war/bush_family_and_the_s.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five
http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm
Last edited on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 10:22 am by Game_Over2007
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 01:04 am |
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Let's see, who was President when NASDQ crashed.................................. Who was President when Enron flourished? Who had a chance to get Bin Laden and passed? Who was only able to present a balanced budget because of inflated markets? Who is one of the greatest Con Men on the planet today?
WJC.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:58 am |
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| Your point? De-regulation and no rules! God didn't create this problem. Enron just showed us all how corrupt the system was and when the Dems implemented some controls for accountability and Wall Street whined. We need more controls in-place that are valid and forget the Reagan crap because that man set the tone for ruining our ability to keep jobs in this country. Clinton had his problems but the country had a balanced operating budget with a surplus at the end of his eight years. This mess is a disaster and we may compare this to the great depression. Enjoy your night and remember to look at the real issues. Last edited on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:59 am by Game_Over2007
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:45 am |
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It goes far beyond 8 years and you know it. Talk to me about the NASDAQ meltdown, Enron and Clinton.
When you're ready for an intelligent discussion let me know.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:40 am |
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| Well lets discuss the economy OB Won. Eight years of failures with a carte blanc mentality on Wall Street who supports no regulations or rules. So now we pay for all this as our so called wealth is flushed down the toilet. You say support McCain and Palin. I thought you had the integrity to think for yourself and to read between the lines. Have you looked at the tax plans for real? McCain and Palin have no CLUE as to what the hell is going on around them. You talk about "babble". The talk about raising your taxes will be brought out in the upcoming debate and McCain will look like a complete ass when that happens next Friday night. I think you have your views confused because I'm not going to vote for incompetence and a woman who just runs her mouth about being another maverick from Alaska. Don't even attempt to tell me about her ability to be VP or even God forbid President. The Palin factor is fading now and people are seeing the real Palin for who she is and let the cards fall where they may as she steps on her tush when asked some real intelligent questions from the press. Really think about what your doing when you go vote in November. Issues not Babble...... We are paying for de-regulation and so called free market no rules apply. McCain and Palin offer no substance to their "babble" and have yet to describe what they will do to fix the mess Bushism got us into. Last edited on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:44 am by Game_Over2007
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 11:11 pm |
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Can you drop the crap for a few minutes and discuss the economy?
Do you really want Obama and Biden to sit in the Oval Office and decide our future?
I'm not thrilled with McCain, but Palin is new and might be a neat change in the mix.
The Senate and House are the problem, not the Executive Branch of the Nation. The House and Senate control the purse strings. The leadership of both houses sucks and their predecessors weren't much better.
I am going to vote against Biden and Castle, I voted for Markell in the primary even though I had to change my party affiliation to do it. I might vote for Lee I don't know yet.
I am voting against every incumbent in every National and most local politics this year.
Obama is an incumbent, McCain is an incumbent, Biden is an incumbent, and Palin is the "odd man" out so I'm voting McCain/Palin for hope.
I am really tired of the babble and the election is still 2 months away. No wonder the ADHD Generation is bored and won't show up again at the polls.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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| John McCain is lost in his own legend. His tough guy crap has run its course and bringing in the pit bull is just another part of the equation doomed for a political disaster come November.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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McCain hasn't been doing too well lately on his own getting questioned, let alone against an opponent. The AIG was a perfect example of where he says one thing because it sounds good, and then has to basically retract what he says.
It is getting odd watching him spout the talking points over and over again to different questions. I get that you want your advisors to stay on point (cough, Carly, cough), but you've got to be able to give and take, and McCain seems to have lost this ability. He seems crotchety in interviews when even mildly challenged, and his weird smiles are being seen less and less.
Maybe he needs Sarah next to him for the interviews, as well...although she hasn't done much better.
The Palin bounce is over.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 05:56 pm |
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| Let's see how much McCain can run his mouth when he gets on a one on one debate with Obama. His straight talk crap will about run its course by then and maybe the greatest "de-regulator" of all times can explain his new found knowledge on the economy. Not long ago he claimed to know nothing about the economy. Then he picks the Hockey Mom to back him up on the VP ticket to make this an even bigger joke. You go John Boy......keep up the blunders.....
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 04:18 pm |
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| Well the market should go turn south again soon..... this Wachovia deal is a joke with Morgan.... Why would Morgan want to merge with Wachovia which is holding 120 Billion dollars in ARMs? Insanity rules I guess..... BAN SHORT TRADING NOW
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Kirk
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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Fred: until I saw the international news yesterday, I would have been somewhat in agreement with you. I had expected a few more buy/sell outs, mergers and like activities, but the AIG news from elsewhere in the world has made this a much bigger problem than the local/U.S. news is covering.
There are long lines of people outside AIG and subsidiary offices. They are there to withdraw the 'cash value' of their insurance policies because they used these policies as a savings mechanism for retirement/emergencies. They are worried that AIG will run out of money once the 85 billion is gone, so they are making a "run on the bank" to get theirs (I thought I heard a cnbc talking-head suggest they had about 400 billion of these on the books around the world). While the U.S. media is simply replaying the Treasury Department statements about the fundamental soundness of the Insurance Divisions of AIG and that there is no relationship between the two divisions (investing and insurance), the rest of the world knows that there is. When you put your money into your policy, the money is then sent to the investment division who tries to make enough profit/interest on that money to be able to pay on the life insurance provisions if needed - and pay out on the cash value provision if used. The reason that life insurance premiums have remained fairly stable for many years while insurance profits went sky-rocketing was the returns being made by these investment divisions. So far, U.S. residents have been docile about their insurance (especially cash value) and there does not appear to be any significant move to withdraw these funds.
For some unknown reason, U.S. residents have this goofy notion that they can 'trust their leaders to tell them the truth' about these sorts of things. Now that Bush/Paulson and the Republican Party have revived the Marxist/Leninist Tradition of Nationalization of industries, do you think someone will write a book called the Guantanamo Archapeligo?
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 01:18 pm |
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There are good, bad, and mixed economic times. I would argue that for MOST of the Bush era, we've been in the mixed era, which was marked by competing statistics of how good or bad we are doing. Up until now, I've always seen that....maybe average wages are stagnant, but employment is holding steady. Maybe savings are down, but equity was going up.
Heck, I really thought we had bottomed out with Bear Sterns, and then I thought it bottomed out with Freddie and Fannie. I thought by this time the economy would be picking back up and the Republicans would be taking credit for it. However, I don't see that now...and now, neither does McCain. He has backed off his "fundementals are sound" bit, quite wisely I think. Heck, even Jeb Bush is distancing himself from his brother, which will make Christmas a bit interesting this year.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 01:12 pm |
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By the way.... Where in hell is Ms Carly these days? hahaha.... Guess she ran her mouth and stuck her HP fired executive foot in her mouth.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/17/mccain-camp-throws-fiorin_n_127009.html
Last edited on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 05:51 pm by Game_Over2007
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:20 pm |
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| Yesterday I called for a ban on Short Sellers and sure enough the SEC must have been listening to the cry..... haha... The Vulchers of trading will be in denial soon enough and now lets see if they can steal more of your money with their creative trades... Let's see what today brings among the pundits of Wall Street..... Larry Kudlow must be back on cocaine now...... poor man..... His Goldilocks dream economy is slowly going down the royal toilet and no matter how hard he tries to save his buddy Bush...... It's all in vain......
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 09:49 am |
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Great economy and John McCain says its fundamentally sound...
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/105785/Worst-Crisis-Since-1930s-With-No-End-Yet-in-Sight
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:43 am |
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| Washington Mutual is up for sale and more shoes are falling! Rest my case. George W. Bush has failed to address this country on this financial disaster and if his one and only statement remains the "fundamentals of the U.S. economy are sound", then all I can say about this man is that he has a clone by the name of John McCain running with the same statement, meaning they both "don't get it".
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Fred
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 08:24 pm |
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This helps a little....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122165238916347677.html
If I am reading it right, the government's equity stake (the 80% of the company) is bought by the notes. AIG can buy back the notes from the US, but will have to pay a pretty hefty rate.
Glad to see they made the CEO step aside, as well.
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Skjuda
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:16 pm |
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I am confused and hope one of you economic dudes can help me here.
Our feds just paid 85b to AIG and recieved 79% or so of the ownership stake. I am assuming common stock. The 85b was a loan so does that mean when they pay it off they get back the ownership stake? Who gets the profit during the loan paydown?
Now I now in corporate america common stock does not usually mean much, the bulk of corporations are run by the prefered stock holders. Preferred stock is always paid some percentage first and most have voting rights above common stockholders. Did the taxpayers jsut bail out this company so the preferred stockholders could take it out in payments?
Can someone explain this to me please, I am confused.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/poof-there-goes-an-american-dream.aspx
Like I said youre a chump if you leave your money in the stock market.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 12:01 pm |
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Well I see from the news today that Mr Paulson is pumping "maybe" 85 Billion into the AIG meltdown. Amazing how this all plays out and those who were in the know are laughing their asses off as they send in the "clowns". We as a country have let this happen with incompetent leadership and our failure to "regulate". Now we pay the price and their are more shoes to fall. The SEC needs to "stop" all "short trading" and let the real market correct itself. These short traders are having a field day raping the system. Its time to put a hault to this insanity.
PTG..... Sounds like a plan but I'm not sure we can tolerate each other for very long especially before election day. hahaha...... by the way, I'm in safe mode with all my investments and only hold two stocks which are holding steady still and paying dividends...... my trading days are over.... going to enjoy what I do have and travel...
Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:32 pm by Game_Over2007
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 11:07 pm |
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I guess we should figure out where to meet for a cup of coffee, not that I like you or anything. I guess if we pick a diner and a time we can sit at the counter and hope the rest of these yahoos don't join us. 
I've been mostly cash for a while, but I do get concerned about some of the MMKT funds falling below $1 par.
I am less concerned about the banks and annuities.
Game_Over2007 wrote:
Well today's market action is just the tip of the iceberg and theirs more shoes to fall and soon. Wall Street thought the golden boy John Thain was the savior for Merrill Lynch and I guess he bit off more than he could chew when he took the CEO job. Now let the cards fall where they may and let these greedy Wall Street yahoos enjoy the pain others feel now. Both political parties are at fault but the six years of eight are charged to George W Bush and company. False senses of prosperity for the stupid people who believed this man deserve what they get and more. The five percent of you who benefited from the greed, I hope you choke on your new found wealth. Other than that I could care less. Planning my next vacation.
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Terrance
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 07:54 pm |
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Kirk wrote: Fred: who ever gets themselves elected this fall is going to find a very difficult situation to govern. For nearly thirty years the conservative movement has demanded the deregulation of industry to "let the markets work". Now that their unwavering faith in markets has wavered, tax-payers are expected to pick up the tab. I have found watching cnbc to be a fascinating experience in the last year as several rabid, anti-regulation commentators have turned into rabid, bail-out commentators as if everyone will forget their previous religious proclamations. It is amazing how compassionate a financier can become about unemployment when their peers are losing their jobs, but how dispassionate they were when GM et al were shipping jobs overseas.
Perhaps the most interesting movements in the last few days involve AIG. To be perfectly honest, I had expected Goldman-Sachs to be the next domino in the sequence. AIG has a trillion dollar balance sheet (Lehman, for all the bally-who about size, was 'only' about 250B or about 25% the size of AIG). This is a significantly larger entity, and holds pension assets for many thousands of people through their insurance, annuity and financial planning (ha!) divisions. This may qualify as a "too big to fail" entity though bailing out a Trillion $ firm could be very costly. Hopefully, we will not need to see if this is the case. Brokerage firms are in a slightly different business - they hold stock certificates for people who have accounts with them and those certificates are not in jeopardy with a firm's closure so that most small investors - as long as they do not hold Lehman stock or mortgage backed securities - are insulated against their insolvency. Merril Lynch was offered $90 a share for a buyout (late last year or early this year?) by BoA and senior management had too much arrogance and/or ignorance, so shareholders will now receive $28 - and that is at a premium. I am confident that senior management will express their regrets while walking with their 8-digit severance deals.
When I teach college students about personal finance, they look at me like I am nuts when I cover debt burdens and how much car/house/vacation they can realistically afford on a salary of $50,000. We have socialized a generation (two of them in fact) to believe that a reasonable car price is one year's salary (20% used to be the norm); a house that is 8 times annual income is affordable (3 times gross pay of the higher wage earner used to be the norm); and a vacation should represent about 10% of their gross pay (2-4% was normal). This is so far removed from a sustainable lifestyle that the current crisis is perhaps useful in bringing down expectations. I know my experience is limited to a very small population set, but the general tone in the media seems to reflect these outlandish life style expectations.
Thank you for an excellent posting.
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Bixby
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 07:29 pm |
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Kirk wrote: Fred: who ever gets themselves elected this fall is going to find a very difficult situation to govern. For nearly thirty years the conservative movement has demanded the deregulation of industry to "let the markets work". Now that their unwavering faith in markets has wavered, tax-payers are expected to pick up the tab. I think that you are wrong. Conservatives expect to let the market prevail and let the business fail as any other without a taxpayer bailout. If we bail out the banking houses, whose next? The airlines? The automakers? Al's Bar & Grille? No bailouts. Someone will pick up the slack but I don't think we should pick up the tab. Rough going ahead no matter what. Try watching FBC for a change of opinion.
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Kirk
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 06:43 pm |
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Fred: who ever gets themselves elected this fall is going to find a very difficult situation to govern. For nearly thirty years the conservative movement has demanded the deregulation of industry to "let the markets work". Now that their unwavering faith in markets has wavered, tax-payers are expected to pick up the tab. I have found watching cnbc to be a fascinating experience in the last year as several rabid, anti-regulation commentators have turned into rabid, bail-out commentators as if everyone will forget their previous religious proclamations. It is amazing how compassionate a financier can become about unemployment when their peers are losing their jobs, but how dispassionate they were when GM et al were shipping jobs overseas.
Perhaps the most interesting movements in the last few days involve AIG. To be perfectly honest, I had expected Goldman-Sachs to be the next domino in the sequence. AIG has a trillion dollar balance sheet (Lehman, for all the bally-who about size, was 'only' about 250B or about 25% the size of AIG). This is a significantly larger entity, and holds pension assets for many thousands of people through their insurance, annuity and financial planning (ha!) divisions. This may qualify as a "too big to fail" entity though bailing out a Trillion $ firm could be very costly. Hopefully, we will not need to see if this is the case. Brokerage firms are in a slightly different business - they hold stock certificates for people who have accounts with them and those certificates are not in jeopardy with a firm's closure so that most small investors - as long as they do not hold Lehman stock or mortgage backed securities - are insulated against their insolvency. Merril Lynch was offered $90 a share for a buyout (late last year or early this year?) by BoA and senior management had too much arrogance and/or ignorance, so shareholders will now receive $28 - and that is at a premium. I am confident that senior management will express their regrets while walking with their 8-digit severance deals.
When I teach college students about personal finance, they look at me like I am nuts when I cover debt burdens and how much car/house/vacation they can realistically afford on a salary of $50,000. We have socialized a generation (two of them in fact) to believe that a reasonable car price is one year's salary (20% used to be the norm); a house that is 8 times annual income is affordable (3 times gross pay of the higher wage earner used to be the norm); and a vacation should represent about 10% of their gross pay (2-4% was normal). This is so far removed from a sustainable lifestyle that the current crisis is perhaps useful in bringing down expectations. I know my experience is limited to a very small population set, but the general tone in the media seems to reflect these outlandish life style expectations.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 06:21 pm |
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| Well today's market action is just the tip of the iceberg and theirs more shoes to fall and soon. Wall Street thought the golden boy John Thain was the savior for Merrill Lynch and I guess he bit off more than he could chew when he took the CEO job. Now let the cards fall where they may and let these greedy Wall Street yahoos enjoy the pain others feel now. Both political parties are at fault but the six years of eight are charged to George W Bush and company. False senses of prosperity for the stupid people who believed this man deserve what they get and more. The five percent of you who benefited from the greed, I hope you choke on your new found wealth. Other than that I could care less. Planning my next vacation.
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Fred
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 02:16 pm |
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I don't go quite as far as some in foretelling doom and disaster, but I also don't think that the economy is "fundementally sound". It ain't. It may have been brought down by greed, underregulation, oversight, or some combination of the above, but the future isn't bright right now regardless of who wins the election.
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 01:13 pm |
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Well we enjoyed ourselves in Nova Scotia at Peggy's Cove and the food was awesome to say the least PTG. I see you took care of business while I was gone and did it well with your conservative mind-set. It's a good thing having different views and knowing I'm right and your wrong! *S* Check this comment out and think about the S&P 500 going down to the 1000 range. I'm not sure the resistance line will hold at 1175. To bad these investment banks got greedy and now we all pay in the long term. Another bubble bursts and now we wonder where the next big one will come from? Oh well what the hell do I know. I'm just an independent trying to find the right road to travel on these days. Planning my next adventure as this election gets nasty. Have a good day and I would buy you a cup of good coffee if you were my friend..... hahaha.....
http://www.tsptalk.com/comments.html
Last edited on Mon Sep 15th, 2008 01:17 pm by Game_Over2007
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 01:46 am |
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Welcome back, how was Nova Scotia? The amateurs have been tryin to cover for you with little success.
Vote the Bull Moose Party........
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Game_Over2007
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Posted: Sun Sep 14th, 2008 01:54 pm |
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| Well those government bailouts are living proof of the McCain / Bush quotes: The economy is fundamentally sound! Six years of republican congress and Bush and then two years of a democratic congress under Bush (needing 60 votes to get anything done) have failed. Bush gets all the credit for FAILURE and no matter what the republicans do up till the election, people need to focus on the damage done under BUSH / MCCAIN and then vote their real gut feelings. We can not afford four more years of this crap-ola. Forget the Moose-Berger in Alaska and McCain's war hero stuff because the reality of the situation is FAILURE IS FAILURE...... PERIOD. By the way who ever posted that tax plan needs to post the real one............ The upper five percent of the GOP loyalist will finally pay their fair share of taxes and maybe Wall Street will get a well deserved "enema" to adjust attitudes about corruption. Remember Wall Street created this mess we're all in and the Bush administration condoned it. Now the buzz word is Bailout Bailout Bailout....... LOL Last edited on Sun Sep 14th, 2008 02:16 pm by Game_Over2007
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Bixby
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 05:06 pm |
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Ben Franklin wrote: Any one else notice that gas prices are up 11 to 12 cent from yesterday?
How long are we going to tolerate being gouge by our gov, the gas companies and the electric companies time we did something serious folks.
Its time for a national work outage! take the day off Sept 19th spread the word
Wow. Just like they do in Europe. Workers of the world, unite!
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 03:54 pm |
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http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/feds-bailed-out-china-not-the-us.aspx
I guess we have to keep the communists happy now.
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