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counting coup
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 12:57 am |
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Do the facts matter? Bush had no trouble doing whatever he wanted to begin a war and keep it going for 7 years, now some would like you to believe he knew about the impending financial crises and couldn't do anything about it during those 7 years because two Democratic Congressmen wouldn't let him. During 6 of those 7 years Congress was controlled by Republicans.
You guys can sure pile it high!!!!
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Terrance
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 12:15 am |
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| you know when Bush was elected the Republicans had the Executive Office and both Houses of Congress. There was a surplus and the economy was good. So, 8 years later, we are in the toilet. How do you figure this is a Democratic thing? The Democrats did regain control of Congress in 2006, but they did not have enough of a majority to sustain anything.
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Newshound
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 12:00 am |
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Abraham Lincoln said, "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time." Unfortunately, the future of this country, as well as the fate of the Western world, depends on how many people can be fooled on election day, just a few weeks from now. Right now, the polls indicate that a whole lot of the people are being fooled a whole lot of the time.
The current financial bailout crisis has propelled Barack Obama back into a substantial lead over John McCain-- which is astonishing in view of which man and which party has had the most to do with bringing on this crisis.
It raises the question: Do facts matter? Or is Obama's rhetoric and the media's spin enough to make facts irrelevant?
Fact Number One: It was liberal Democrats, led by Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, who for years-- including the present year-- denied that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taking big risks that could lead to a financial crisis.
It was Senator Dodd, Congressman Frank and other liberal Democrats who for years refused requests from the Bush administration to set up an agency to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
It was liberal Democrats, again led by Dodd and Frank, who for years pushed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to go even further in promoting subprime mortgage loans, which are at the heart of today's financial crisis.
Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the President. So did Bush's Secretary of the Treasury, five years ago.
Yet, today, what are we hearing? That it was the Bush administration "right-wing ideology" of "de-regulation" that set the stage for the financial crisis. Do facts matter?
We also hear that it is the free market that is to blame. But the facts show that it was the government that pressured financial institutions in general to lend to subprime borrowers, with such things as the Community Reinvestment Act and, later, threats of legal action by then Attorney General Janet Reno if the feds did not like the statistics on who was getting loans and who wasn't.
Is that the free market? Or do facts not matter?
Then there is the question of being against the "greed" of CEOs and for "the people." Franklin Raines made $90 million while he was head of Fannie Mae and mismanaging that institution into crisis. Continued...
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 11:45 pm |
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Newshound wrote: In a revelation tying Barack Obama even closer to radical community organizing, WND has learned that a renowned disciple of the late socialist agitator Saul "The Red" Alinksy wrote a letter of recommendation for Obama when he applied to Harvard Law School.
Read the full story right now at WorldNetDaily.com!
I find it more interesting to examine who McCain has had managing his campaign.
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Newshound
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 11:43 pm |
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In a revelation tying Barack Obama even closer to radical community organizing, WND has learned that a renowned disciple of the late socialist agitator Saul "The Red" Alinksy wrote a letter of recommendation for Obama when he applied to Harvard Law School.
Read the full story right now at WorldNetDaily.com!
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 10:49 pm |
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Boo wrote: Terrance wrote: Ben Franklin wrote: Habanero wrote: Playing the Game wrote: Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II). Are you NUTS???????
This country can not withstand 4 years of Obama. A Hillary Clinton Presidency, as godawful as I would consider that, would look like a rightwing administration compared to what the Obamessiah would do to our country.
Yes, I intentionally said "our" country, because it is not Obama's country. No, I'm not into all that crap that he is not a naturalborn citizen or ineligible to hold the position of POTUS. He just does not agree with the way this country is run, and it has nothing to do with his disagreements with the current administration, it is his total disdain for the way this country is run based upon the Constitution. He is more in line with the Communist Manifesto than the US Constitution.
6 months ago if someone said I would be voting for McCain next month I would have laughed them into the next month. The laugh is on me. I do not like McCain, however, I do not want a Marxist, with a very shady and shaky background, in the White House. So as usual the election is a farce. a choice between what we perceive as the lesser of two evils.
Remember these words. There wont be any election Bush will make sure of that There will be an election. Yup, big beak, there will be an electshun, onliest thing aint nobody good nuff to vote fer. Neither that Obami feller or that McGoo feller. Bixby onct writ that neither of thems is fit to govern. None of them kin be good enuff to clean out the hog waller.
I believe you would be good enuff to clean out the hog waller.
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Boo
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 10:21 pm |
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Terrance wrote: Ben Franklin wrote: Habanero wrote: Playing the Game wrote: Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II). Are you NUTS???????
This country can not withstand 4 years of Obama. A Hillary Clinton Presidency, as godawful as I would consider that, would look like a rightwing administration compared to what the Obamessiah would do to our country.
Yes, I intentionally said "our" country, because it is not Obama's country. No, I'm not into all that crap that he is not a naturalborn citizen or ineligible to hold the position of POTUS. He just does not agree with the way this country is run, and it has nothing to do with his disagreements with the current administration, it is his total disdain for the way this country is run based upon the Constitution. He is more in line with the Communist Manifesto than the US Constitution.
6 months ago if someone said I would be voting for McCain next month I would have laughed them into the next month. The laugh is on me. I do not like McCain, however, I do not want a Marxist, with a very shady and shaky background, in the White House. So as usual the election is a farce. a choice between what we perceive as the lesser of two evils.
Remember these words. There wont be any election Bush will make sure of that There will be an election. Yup, big beak, there will be an electshun, onliest thing aint nobody good nuff to vote fer. Neither that Obami feller or that McGoo feller. Bixby onct writ that neither of thems is fit to govern. None of them kin be good enuff to clean out the hog waller.
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Terrance
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 09:36 pm |
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Ben Franklin wrote: Habanero wrote: Playing the Game wrote: Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II).
Are you NUTS???????
This country can not withstand 4 years of Obama. A Hillary Clinton Presidency, as godawful as I would consider that, would look like a rightwing administration compared to what the Obamessiah would do to our country.
Yes, I intentionally said "our" country, because it is not Obama's country. No, I'm not into all that crap that he is not a naturalborn citizen or ineligible to hold the position of POTUS. He just does not agree with the way this country is run, and it has nothing to do with his disagreements with the current administration, it is his total disdain for the way this country is run based upon the Constitution. He is more in line with the Communist Manifesto than the US Constitution.
6 months ago if someone said I would be voting for McCain next month I would have laughed them into the next month. The laugh is on me. I do not like McCain, however, I do not want a Marxist, with a very shady and shaky background, in the White House.
So as usual the election is a farce. a choice between what we perceive as the lesser of two evils.
Remember these words. There wont be any election Bush will make sure of that
There will be an election.
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Ben Franklin
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 04:56 pm |
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Habanero wrote: Playing the Game wrote: Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II).
Are you NUTS???????
This country can not withstand 4 years of Obama. A Hillary Clinton Presidency, as godawful as I would consider that, would look like a rightwing administration compared to what the Obamessiah would do to our country.
Yes, I intentionally said "our" country, because it is not Obama's country. No, I'm not into all that crap that he is not a naturalborn citizen or ineligible to hold the position of POTUS. He just does not agree with the way this country is run, and it has nothing to do with his disagreements with the current administration, it is his total disdain for the way this country is run based upon the Constitution. He is more in line with the Communist Manifesto than the US Constitution.
6 months ago if someone said I would be voting for McCain next month I would have laughed them into the next month. The laugh is on me. I do not like McCain, however, I do not want a Marxist, with a very shady and shaky background, in the White House.
So as usual the election is a farce. a choice between what we perceive as the lesser of two evils.
Remember these words. There wont be any election Bush will make sure of that
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Fred
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Posted: Tue Oct 7th, 2008 04:50 pm |
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From Hugh McColl Jr., former chairman and CEO of Bank of America:
In 49 years of living in Charlotte, I've seldom offered my opinion in writing and never submitted a piece such as this. The condition of our country compels me.
The economic disarray threatening our community and nation poses critical challenges but also presents opportunity. We can observe the presidential candidates in the crucible of crisis.
Only one of them demonstrates the needed intellect, fortitude and temperament. That is why I have decided to publicly support Barack Obama.
What is needed in Washington is sound judgment and exceptional leadership. Through the years that I've been a businessman and before that an officer in the Marine Corps, I saw what qualities make effective leaders. I see them in Obama: a sharp intellect, stiff spine and steady hand.
Obama's economic plans will restore market confidence and provide a blueprint for a better future. His pragmatic, intelligent economic plan will stop our financial slide and restore the expansion and confidence we knew in the 1990s. Obama's tax relief plans for small businesses and the middle class should provide much-needed economic stimulus.
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Habanero
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 03:46 am |
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Playing the Game wrote: Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II).
Are you NUTS???????
This country can not withstand 4 years of Obama. A Hillary Clinton Presidency, as godawful as I would consider that, would look like a rightwing administration compared to what the Obamessiah would do to our country.
Yes, I intentionally said "our" country, because it is not Obama's country. No, I'm not into all that crap that he is not a naturalborn citizen or ineligible to hold the position of POTUS. He just does not agree with the way this country is run, and it has nothing to do with his disagreements with the current administration, it is his total disdain for the way this country is run based upon the Constitution. He is more in line with the Communist Manifesto than the US Constitution.
6 months ago if someone said I would be voting for McCain next month I would have laughed them into the next month. The laugh is on me. I do not like McCain, however, I do not want a Marxist, with a very shady and shaky background, in the White House.
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counting coup
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Posted: Sun Oct 5th, 2008 02:05 am |
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| He probably will, but it's highly unlikely, if not impossible that he could do worse than the current wanker or McBush would do. Vote for Ron Paul.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:29 pm |
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| Please vote for Obama. In 4 years we will hopefully be able to elect a real leader, because Obama will have botched it completely (Carter II). Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 10:29 pm by Playing the Game
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Bixby
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 09:54 pm |
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Fred, I'll answer that one. They overstated their assets and manipulated their earnings in order to gain for themselves greater bonus'. Simple enough. Criminal enough. Read.
The government’s planned takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, expected to be announced as early as this weekend, came together hurriedly after advisers poring over the companies’ books for the Treasury Department concluded that Freddie’s accounting methods had overstated its capital cushion, according to regulatory officials briefed on the matter. (NY Times 9/6/08)
Accusations of questionable accounting are not new for either company. Earlier this decade, both companies paid large fines and ousted their top executives after accounting scandals. Freddie Mac’s current chief executive and chairman, Richard F. Syron, joined the company in 2003 after the former managers revealed that they had manipulated earnings by almost $5 billion. The next year, Fannie Mae’s chief executive, Daniel H. Mudd, was promoted to the top spot after that company was accused of accounting errors totaling $6.3 billion. (Source: Fannie Mae Guaranteed Mortgage Pass-Through Certificates, Reporting by Stephen Labaton and Edmund L. Andrews in Washington, 9/6/08)
Levitt Says Fannie, Freddie `Really Cooked the Books' (Arthur Levitt, former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Bloomberg Channel) Video Bloomberg
And if you go through the 2004 committee transcripts you can read the full testimony. Here are just some highlights:
Maxine Waters: Through nearly a dozen hearings, we were frankly trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Franklin Raines. [Raines would barely avoid prosecution for fraud.]
Gregory Meeks: … I’m just pissed off at OFHEO [the regulators trying to warn Congress of insolvency at the GSEs], because if it wasn’t for you, I don’t think we’d be here in the first place. … There’s been nothing that indicated that’s wrong with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac has come up on its own … The question that then comes up is the competence that your agency has with reference to deciding and regulating these GSEs.
Lacy Clay: This hearing is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.
Barney Frank: I don’t see anything in this report that raises safety and soundness problems.
Unfortunately for the Democrats at this hearing, Raines then doubled down and demanded that the SEC give a second opinion on his business practices. After an investigation, the SEC agreed with Falcon and demanded that Fannie Mae restate its earnings all the way back to 2001 — at which point Raines’ fraud got uncovered. OFHEO had been correct, and the Democrats in this committee meeting had done their level best to interfere with the regulator to cover up for Raines’ fraud.
The Democrats attacking the regulator here didn’t do so out of some deep conviction against government regulation. They wanted to keep the gravy train rolling on questionable mortgages in order to endear themselves to the working class, and didn’t mind smearing the OFHEO regulator as a racist in order to succeed. The Republicans who wanted more oversight didn’t demand it as socialists looking for a government takeover of the financial sector, either, but because they saw the impending disaster looming for Fannie Mae.
Democrats distorted the market through the CRA and through Fannie and Freddie’s massive securitizing of bad debt, and then blocked regulators from doing their jobs. That’s the real story of this collapse.
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 05:06 am by Bixby
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 09:35 pm |
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| You would have to ask Franks & Dodd.
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 08:04 pm |
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| Tell me how they were cooking the books, first.
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Vindicator
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:22 pm |
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Those most directly responsible for the Fanny failure were Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd with Shumer, Meeks and a smattering of their cronies thrown in for good measure. Now who were or are the Republicans responsible for cooking the books and covering it up?
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 05:11 pm |
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Who are you saying were the criminals at Fannie and Freddie?
Enron did do a lot of damage....not to you or me, perhaps, but to the energy infrastructure in California, as well as people who invested in it.
I am not saying that issues at Fannie and Freddie are not part of it, but I detect a desperate attempt by right wingers to tie the whole kit and kaboddle to someone who doesn't have a "R" next to their name...and if you can throw a name like Pelosi or Franks around, so much the better.
It is like saying that the loans the Dems pushed for low income households must be the problem...sounds good, except they are not. They are going into default, but at about the same rate as the McMansions are. It is much more likely that the yuppie or yuppie want-to-bes caused it as any other group.
Try this...there is plenty of blame to go around. Some people were greedy, some people were trying to make what they thought was an honest buck. Some got a little over their head (heck, I know I did when I bought my house.....it got better after a year). Some took bad advice, some took advantage of loopholes.
What you want is a single point of failure, and there is none.
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Vindicator
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:51 pm |
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Fred wrote: It was covered during the meltdown of Fannie and Freddie, but it became overshadowed by other issues, and there probably wasn't the same criminal intent and fraud there was in Enron.
Let's agree, however, that "abandoning his conservative principals" does NOT mean he adopted liberal ones. He and his administration managed to come up with an almagam of the worst possible parts of both philosophies. Overshadowed by other issues? Yes, Enron was played up big, but to say that there was not the same criminal intent and fraud as in Enron? Lying about your assets so you can receive bigger bonuses is not an equal criminal intent? Come on, we'd all be in jail by now if we did it. Imagine if it were Republicans. This was far in excess of Enron. Do you think Enron could have brought us to the point where we are now? Man, you can't cover up that one and you can't spin that any other way. It never got the coverage it should have and it doesn't now.
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counting coup
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 04:12 pm |
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| Fred, they are called Neocons with the emphasis on "cons".
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 03:41 pm |
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It was covered during the meltdown of Fannie and Freddie, but it became overshadowed by other issues, and there probably wasn't the same criminal intent and fraud there was in Enron.
Let's agree, however, that "abandoning his conservative principals" does NOT mean he adopted liberal ones. He and his administration managed to come up with an almagam of the worst possible parts of both philosophies.
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Bixby
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 01:48 pm |
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| Bush too has long ago abandoned conservative principles. He has enough to make his legacy a lousy one. It goes beyond tax cuts, permanent or not. One thing in his favor was a 2001 WH memo where he warned that this could happen. No one paid attention and he did nothing more to convince the Congress that there was trouble ahead. Zip ahead to 2004 at the Senate Finance Committee hearings where to the man, the Democrats covered for the outright criminal misdoings of their appointed buddies at Fanny and Freddie. You know as well as I that they overstated their earnings and bundled bad paper and used it as collateral to be sold over and over again just so that they could reap huge bonuses in the millions. At least McCain (and I do mean at least) tried with a few others by co-sponsoring legislation that would have prevented some of this from going down. Blocked by key Democrats. The root cause of this problem lay at the feet of Fanny and Freddie and everyone is covering it up. Why no extensive coverage in the MSM like was given to the Enron criminals?
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 11:08 am |
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I agree that there are other ways to solve the long-term problem, but the issue is whether or not Congress and the administration wants to stand by and willingly let the country slip into a deep recession. You can argue that we should, but do you, if you are President Bush, want to go down as the guy who brought it on?
Maybe they should have done something earlier instead of insisting that the whole economy problem can be solved by making tax cuts permanent. That may or may not be a good idea, but it didn't have a lot to do with the real estate bust.
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Bixby
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 04:11 pm |
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Fred, once again I am compelled to agree with you. After observing this buy-in/bailout fiasco I am also compelled to declare that neither Obama nor McCain are fit to lead this country anywhere but into complete socialism. McCain once again deserted conservative principles by now supporting this measure that is designed to keep those who are responsible for the mess both protected and in power. It is also designed to brace those who were unqualified for loans to begin with to maintain their homeowner status. I pay my mortgage on time so why do I also have to p[ay for others?
It is absurd to think that the lunatics are running the asylum, or if you prefer, the foxes guarding the henhouse. And another comparison, it's like hiring an arsonist to put out the fire.
I'm no financial expert but there are other ways to ease the credit crunch and to get money flowing again, not with tax dollars but with loans and insurance. To think that those who we send to the Congress are resorting to pork bribes to get those who opposed this "solution" to get on board is resentful and an affront to the decency that is supposed to prevail. Not one of those in opposition who then turns to support the measures is deserving of re-election, regardless of party. A whole houscleaning is in order.
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 03:04 pm |
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Without question.
One thing that people often do is assume that everybody is in one of two camps...you are either Blue or Red, and life is not like that. MOST Americans are somewhere in the middle. Moderates, or the now extinct liberal Republicans or conservative Democrats, don't seem to be part of the disucussion much. Dems went a bit towards that goal with getting some "Blue Dogs" back in.
I am convinced that it takes times like this for a third party or a rework of the major parties...what if this crunch had happened 6 months ago? I don't like many of Ron Paul's policies, but I can see where he would have gotten a lot more votes.
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Terrance
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 03:51 am |
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counting coup wrote: Both sides better figure out how to get the independents on board just as the Democrats did two years ago. It's certainly not a done deal right now. If you take a look at many of the Democrats that were elected to office in 2006 you will find moderates that were put over the top by the independent vote not the liberals. The best case for independents to vote Democratic is King George and his reign of terror not B.O.
Ditto.
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counting coup
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 03:50 am |
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| Both sides better figure out how to get the independents on board just as the Democrats did two years ago. It's certainly not a done deal right now. If you take a look at many of the Democrats that were elected to office in 2006 you will find moderates that were put over the top by the independent vote not the liberals. The best case for independents to vote Democratic is King George and his reign of terror not B.O.
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Lavitakus
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 03:49 am |
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| Well, since she can see Russia from her backyard and deems that fit to be considered an expert on energy..ahem..national security, lets ask her about Exon V Baker. That was in her backyard too....and she couldn't share her views on any other historic case when discussing RVW huh?
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Fred
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 02:22 am |
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| I think enough liberals turned out two years ago to take both houses of Congress away, didn't they?
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 01:13 am |
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| You just keep thinking that way........it is doubtful that you will even vote for anyone that day. Most liberals speak big but never show up at the finish line.
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joeschulte
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 01:04 am |
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| Obama won the race Sep. 15 , 2008 when John McCain said the US economy was fudamentally sound . But another steping stone is the VP debate . It will be obvious to everyone that McCain picked Palin to help him become president while Obama picked Biden to actually be the president if needed . That is country first !
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Terrance
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 03:58 am |
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Habanero wrote: No need for me to say anything in regard to the Keating Five, the Senate already did.
Are you saying that since the Senate Ethics Committee sanctioned McCain, that you agree he now has a record of unethical activity?
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counting coup
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 03:51 am |
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Habanero wrote: counting coup wrote: If you don't believe B.O.s hands are squeaky clean, does that mean you are naive enough to believe McCain's hands are?
Why are you changing the subject? This is about Obama, not McCain. Are you saying that Obama is squeaky clean and I am wrong? Or are you acknowleging I am correct but trying to deflect the topic of discussion to avoid admitting that?
There's no subject change. It was a simple question that only required a simple answer. I have none of the delusions some posters on here have about either one of these political hack liars.
They are both very capable of smiling and shaking your hand while picking your pocket with the other hand. The point being if you don't believe that, as I said you are extremely naive.
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Habanero
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 02:13 am |
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Terrance wrote:
Bingo. It all depends on what type of business is being done. Serving on a board with someone or being at a social function where someone is also present aren't much of anything. The Resco matter is something else, but so far, no one has accussed Obama of anything in that regard.
Maybe you would be so kind as to comment on McCain's involvement with the Keating Five for which he was censured by the U.S. Senate.
No need for me to say anything in regard to the Keating Five, the Senate already did.
There have been plenty of accusations about Obama and Rezco, nothing substantiated, yet, but the accusations are out there for those not blind. What about the Bill Ayers associations? That association, although being played down by the campaign, have long been substantiated. William Ayers was a terrorist with the Weatherunderground..........something he has long admitted.
Of course the MSM Obama camp is not going to bring this info front and center, expecially not about the candidate they have practically crafted out of whole cloth, but that does not mean the information is not out there for the picking. Even the British and Canadian press are doing a far superior job about looking into the background of a candidate for US President than the US press.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 01:00 am |
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Terrance wrote:
When you can only find good things to say about your team and bad things to say about the other team, you have nothing of value to say.
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Terrance
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 12:58 am |
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Habanero wrote: Terrance wrote: My grandfather knew Capone. What do you make of that? What would you have said about him? Need more info? My grandfather did business with Capone. Why don't you explain what that means? Tell us how you would present that if my grandfather were running for President.
It all depends upon what type of business your grandfather did with Capone, wouldn't it? He did, after all have many legitimate business interests.
My grandfather, father, and kid brother all had dealings with many shady characters in NYC crime, but the type of business they conducted with those characters was to lock them up as they were all NYPD.
As for Sen. Obama's business dealings with shady characters, that's an entirely different story. Far too many of his Chicago political machine mentors are in far too much deep trouble for his hands to be sqeaky clean.
Bingo. It all depends on what type of business is being done. Serving on a board with someone or being at a social function where someone is also present aren't much of anything. The Resco matter is something else, but so far, no one has accussed Obama of anything in that regard.
Maybe you would be so kind as to comment on McCain's involvement with the Keating Five for which he was censured by the U.S. Senate.
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Habanero
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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counting coup wrote: If you don't believe B.O.s hands are squeaky clean, does that mean you are naive enough to believe McCain's hands are?
Why are you changing the subject? This is about Obama, not McCain. Are you saying that Obama is squeaky clean and I am wrong? Or are you acknowleging I am correct but trying to deflect the topic of discussion to avoid admitting that?
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counting coup
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 09:03 pm |
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| If you don't believe B.O.s hands are squeaky clean, does that mean you are naive enough to believe McCain's hands are?
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Habanero
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 08:50 pm |
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Terrance wrote: My grandfather knew Capone. What do you make of that? What would you have said about him? Need more info? My grandfather did business with Capone. Why don't you explain what that means? Tell us how you would present that if my grandfather were running for President.
It all depends upon what type of business your grandfather did with Capone, wouldn't it? He did, after all have many legitimate business interests.
My grandfather, father, and kid brother all had dealings with many shady characters in NYC crime, but the type of business they conducted with those characters was to lock them up as they were all NYPD.
As for Sen. Obama's business dealings with shady characters, that's an entirely different story. Far too many of his Chicago political machine mentors are in far too much deep trouble for his hands to be sqeaky clean.
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Terrance
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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Tinkerbelle wrote: I find it curious that the Democrats themselves are content to be willing accomplices to Obama's shady connections. Only Judicial Watch has been investigating the Obama record on so many fronts. They have been trying to locate Obama's public papetrs from his time served as a Illinois State Senator, mainly from 1997 to 2004. Obama claims that his state papers are "kept by the State of Illinois," but as far as the state is concerned, they say that theye never received any request from Obama to archive his papers. How very strange since he is the only state senator who does not have them archived. The public has every right to know what he did for those seven years whcih comprises the major part of Obama's public serice career.
And before anyopne accuses JW for being partisan, they are a non-partisan investigative group that neither endorses or opposes candidates for public office. They have also filed a complaint against McCain's campaign regarding a "suspicious foreign fundraising event."
Exactly what conclusions did JW draw? Tell us about that.
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Terrance
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 07:19 pm |
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DE19899 wrote: Obama sure does have a lot of questionable "friends". That is a fact. My mom used to say if you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Obama needs a good Hartz flea bath.
I guess your mom would know about that. If you don't like this response, imagine how Obama's daughters would feel if they read your post.Last edited on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 07:21 pm by Terrance
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Terrance
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 07:18 pm |
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Habanero wrote: Terrance wrote:
Obama is not a terrorist sympathizer. He is an honorable man and a loyal American. There is something very wrong with trying to make the kind of connections you are making. You should be ashamed of yourself. What you are implying is hateful.
I'm not, and what I am "implying" is not hateful if it is true. I'm not "trying" to make any connections, facts are facts.
My grandfather knew Capone. What do you make of that? What would you have said about him? Need more info? My grandfather did business with Capone. Why don't you explain what that means? Tell us how you would present that if my grandfather were running for President.
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gadsde
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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One of things that I find curious is how those who belong to one of the two political parties can so readily group all Democrats as liberal and all Republicans as conservative and as unquestionably supportive of Obama or McCain respectively. They imply that all registered Democrats think the same and only vote Democratic Party and that all registered Republicans think the same and only vote Republican Party. When they use the phase "Democrats" or "Republicans" do this or do that it only shows that they themselves have little knowlege of how the members of these two Parties think or vote. Once inside the voting booth, some Americans vote for the person believed to be best qualified for the office without regard to Party.
My point; not all Republicans are conservative and not all Democrats are liberal and not all believe and vote straight Party Line. Neither should be classified as good or bad because of party affiliation
Many Democrats and Republicans are Party registered only because their parents were of the same Party and they themselves have not studied the Party philosophy. To become educated voters one should take a look at the candidate. History has shown that candidates frequently change Parties as a means of getting elected.
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Habanero
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 01:28 am |
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Tink, I don't find it curious at all, it is SOP, especially when it comes to Chicago politics, which is where Obama learned.
How many radio stations is it up to now his campaign has threatened legal action about the content of anti-Obama ads that have been aired? Not only is his camp attacking the 2nd Amendment rights of citizens, he is also attacking 1st Amendment rights. If I had no problems with him, the threatening of FCC licenses of stations airing issue ads would cause me to pause and say NO WAY.
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Tinkerbelle
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 01:17 am |
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I find it curious that the Democrats themselves are content to be willing accomplices to Obama's shady connections. Only Judicial Watch has been investigating the Obama record on so many fronts. They have been trying to locate Obama's public papetrs from his time served as a Illinois State Senator, mainly from 1997 to 2004. Obama claims that his state papers are "kept by the State of Illinois," but as far as the state is concerned, they say that theye never received any request from Obama to archive his papers. How very strange since he is the only state senator who does not have them archived. The public has every right to know what he did for those seven years whcih comprises the major part of Obama's public serice career.
And before anyopne accuses JW for being partisan, they are a non-partisan investigative group that neither endorses or opposes candidates for public office. They have also filed a complaint against McCain's campaign regarding a "suspicious foreign fundraising event."
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DE19899
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 01:10 am |
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| Obama sure does have a lot of questionable "friends". That is a fact. My mom used to say if you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Obama needs a good Hartz flea bath.
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Habanero
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 12:58 am |
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Terrance wrote:
Obama is not a terrorist sympathizer. He is an honorable man and a loyal American. There is something very wrong with trying to make the kind of connections you are making. You should be ashamed of yourself. What you are implying is hateful.
I'm not, and what I am "implying" is not hateful if it is true. I'm not "trying" to make any connections, facts are facts.
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Playing the Game
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Posted: Fri Sep 26th, 2008 06:26 pm |
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| With one less bank to "save", the cost of the program should go down. Amazing how quickly capitalism worked to suck up WaMu and not skip a beat or use the FDIC Insurance money.
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Fred
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Posted: Fri Sep 26th, 2008 05:50 pm |
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Well...the deal had the support of the Republicans in the Senate who knew what had to be done. Some Republicans in the House had different ideas. I can't say that I disagree with their basic premise, but there very hastily thrown together "plan" would not have worked.
While I didn't think the deal had to be done last week (although I am guessing they were hoping to save Wa-Mu if it got done in time), I don't think it can wait forever.
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gadsde
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Posted: Fri Sep 26th, 2008 05:16 pm |
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| I see by going back to Washington to do his duty as a Senator, McCain was able to influence a complete change in direction of the proposed bailout. The Maverick is at work even opposing his own Party. Wonder how much Party support he will loose. Is he cutting his own throat? I personally think he has an idea worthy of consideration but do not know enough to say that it will solve the crisis. Any knowledgeable support for his propos |